Logicboy, I'm sorry, your post doesn't make sense. Science in itself is philosophy!!!

mazaje:

I truly respect deesight as a deep thinker, he truly is. . . To be candid he has contributed to my open mindedness on many issues with some of his thoughts . . .But sometimes he just pisses me off with some of his reasoning. . .Deepsight stop it pls. . .

Same with me bro.

mazaje:

It is very relevant, you keep shouting that some god designed the brain, you can not tell us what this god is,

I have told you what God is many times, Mazaje. I will remind you of a few of my many short descriptions:

- - - The Oneness of Infinity (remember that?)
- - - The Compound of Self-Existent Laws (remember that?)
- - - The Sum of all Infinite Time & Infinite Space (remember that?)
- - - The Infinite Mind (remember that?)

You are free to disagree with all of these descriptions, and even laugh at them (such as OoI) but you are not free to claim that I have not stated what God is. I have. In many ways.

where it resides,

This, I can never take seriously.

how it created the brain,when it did and where it created the brain yet you keep shouting that it created the brain. . .Can you see how silly you sound?

I do not know that God, the creator of the infinite Universes, directly created the human brain. I said that it shows hallmarks of design and I stand by that. I do not know that God was the direct designer. If you had been attentive, you would have seen me say this repeatedly and saved yourself the stress of making presumptions and leaps.

. . . .If you don't know something then stop saying or claiming to know it. . .Pretending to know what you don't is the life blood of all theist and religions. . .

There is much we don't know, but to take a look at the functions of the brain, and claim not to see that it is a product of advanced design beyond our furthest knowledge, is nothing but ignorance, dishonesty, foo.lishness, and even illiteracy.

It is VERY relevant, that is the only way we will know which god among the very many gods and goddesses that actually created assuming it was a god or goddess that created it . . .

I also cannot take this seriously, in light of my many explanations over the years regarding the issue of "which god".

In the cosmological debates between atheists and theists, there is only one God that should be at issue: that God said to be the Creator. Tribal or ethnic colorations or appellations are neither here nor there. The philosophical and cosmological construct of a causative creator is what should be discussed.

Whining on forever about myriad gods, is just petty and intellectually lazy and shallow, in my opinion.

This is the only way we will also know that it was created by a god and not as a result of natural selection over a long period of time as scientist have stated. . .

The very weak defence of scientists, when shown the grave improbability of the evolution of various systems (such as se.xual reproductive systems, for example) is to simply shout - "millions of years! It took millions of years!!"

This is actually a very weak and foo.lish revert, and it shows the deep ignorance of many so called scientists on this matter. There is no natural selection that can explain the existence of male as distinct from female, in the first place, just as an example. Not to speak of the full faculties of the brain.

Deep Sight:

Mazaje, I have no response to you because I have long detailed all that you ask for, but more particularly because you are not keenly following the discussion and the points made:

Those points are -

[size=18pt]1. I asserted for design (with the human brain as example and evidence thereof)

2. I made it very clear that this design is not necessarily design performed directly by the Creator God: I have stated this in several posts here but you are not following. This renders most of your ranting moot.[/size]

3. I have defined the God I discuss a zillion times over on this board, and you as a very old poster here are very well aware of that. In doing so I have avoided petty dispute about this or that tribal god, and have spoken always of that first cause of all existence as we know it - regardless of appellation or tribal attribution. Therefore wasting my time with cries of Vishnu and Zeus and Yahweh and Allah, will not cut it for me - erspecially as you are an old poster here who is very well acquainted with my arguments on same.

4. If you are looking for a photo shoot with this God, that I speak of, I am sorry I cannot help you. Deductive reasoning in all things however discloses the existence of a transcendent non material power responsible for cause. I have, as I said, made the relevant deductions and inductions in this regard, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. I will care to repeat them to a newbie, here, but not to someone like you who has read tons of what I have to say on the matter since 2009 till date.

5. At all events, your post has conceded to a designed brain - - - >



- - - and that was what I sought to state. I therefore am in a position to rest my case as far as your intervention is concerned. You are free to call the designer whatever you please, including Odin or Olodumare, or even Obasanjo.

Same difference to me.

@ bold, you just assert your opinions as fact?

Or is there a neuroscience journal that accepts od as the designer of the brain?

This guy is a joke

plaetton: @Deepsight.
You are doing exactly what you just denied doing.
You are taking great leaps in magical thinking by making exceptions for your god.
So god's imperfections are *#$% ...?
What??
Can't you see yourself making all this up as you go?

I have no idea what you are on about. I have clarified for you what you seemed confused about, and I therefore cannot make any sense of what you are saying here.

In future discussions on the nature of God, be circumspect enough not to misquote me here, because I see you doing that. I have not stated anywhere here that God is not perfect. Indeed I cautioned you to the effect that the perfection of God would be very different from human conceptions of perfection.

And no, I am not making up anything as I go. If you had been on this forum from 2009 you would know that I am not saying anything I have not said before, extensively.

Logicboy03:




@ bold, you just assert your opinions as fact?

Or is there a neuroscience journal that accepts od as the designer of the brain?

This guy is a joke

You cannot read. A man writes white and you read black.

Deep Sight:

You cannot read. A man writes white and you read black.

who designed the brain if not your God? Aliens?

I assumed that you were saying that God indirectly designed the brain......

Logicboy03:


who designed the brain if not your God? Aliens?

I assumed that you were saying that God indirectly designed the brain......

When I say God may not have directly created this or that, I simply mean that God is the ultimate creator, and so where God issues a reality in which elements issuing from God lead to the existence of other elements and ultimately to designed elements, then I would not say that God came down and personally designed that designed element.

I do not know for a fact if aliens exist; but considering the size of the universe I personally consider it very likely, and considering brevity of recorded human civilization as compared with the habitable age of the earth, I certainly think there is some huge fishy detail about our existence on this planet which is not disclosed to, or apparent to the generality of humanity.

rationalmind:

Same thing applies to the puppy bro, even when the exact reason why the puppy immediately starts sucking its mothers bre.asts is unknown, it must have an evolutionary basis and can never be removed from it.

1. Genetic science, unlike evolutionary science is thoroughly firmed up and comprehensively proven.

2. Even taking evolution to be beyond cavil, the questions will still remain -

- at what point in the evolution of mammals would this trait have evolved?

- contrast this with the fact that mammals would have to have had this trait from inception to survive in the first place!

Deep Sight:

I have told you what God is many times, Mazaje. I will remind you of a few of my many short descriptions:

- - - The Oneness of Infinity (remember that?)
- - - The Compound of Self-Existent Laws (remember that?)
- - - The Sum of all Infinite Time & Infinite Space (remember that?)
- - - The Infinite Mind (remember that?)

I consider your definition of god to be lacking in substance on many fronts. . .God is oneness of infinity?. . .Compound of self existent laws, sum of all time, infinite mind?. . .All these are abstract human constructs. . .How can onessness of infinity or sum of infinite time and space create or design anything?. . .Is this abstract god a being?. . .Am sorry but to me you just created your own god out of your mind. This god is completely abstract . .But lets agree to disagree. . .I will keep on following your post, you make a lot of sense sometimes, but here I just disagree. . .

Round and round

God may not have been responsible for this universe even, let alone humanity, but he was responsible for the human brain

Was he responsible for putting say virus DNA into humans as well? The female reproductive system, responsible for more deaths than anything else in our history? Etc etc. And do tell, he goes about haphazardly doing all these nonsense but cares not to reveal himself. His aim then, to watch the Truman show?

Maybe I should actually pay attention. Then again, bs makes me sick

I am picking up though that god is made of big grammar

Deep Sight:

When I say God may not have directly created this or that, I simply mean that God is the ultimate creator, and so where God issues a reality in which elements issuing from God lead to the existence of other elements and ultimately to designed elements, then I would not say that God came down and personally designed that designed element.

I do not know for a fact if aliens exist; but considering the size of the universe I personally consider it very likely, and considering brevity of recorded human civilization as compared with the habitable age of the earth, I certainly think there is some huge fishy detail about our existence on this planet which is not disclosed to, or apparent to the generality of humanity.

You are full of nonsense. You are not sure of what god created, yet he is the ultimate creator. Smh

wiegraf: Round and round

God may not have been responsible for this universe even, let alone humanity, but he was responsible for the human brain

Was he responsible for putting say virus DNA into humans as well? The female reproductive system, responsible for more deaths than anything else in our history? Etc etc. And do tell, he goes about haphazardly doing all these nonsense but cares not to reveal himself. His aim then, to watch the Truman show?

Maybe I should actually pay attention. Then again, bs makes me sick

I am picking up though that god is made of big grammar

Forget deepshight, he knows very well what he is doing that is why he refuses to ascribe silly attributes to his god like the christians, who claim their god is all perfect but then creates imprefect beings(angels and humans), god is an intelligent designer but created some of the human parts unintelligently, their god is all knowing but yet he gets angry and display tantrums when human beings do things in certian ways. A god that knows all things can not be suprised but their god is suprised and shows regrets etc . .He knows such a god is impossible so he goes about constructing an abstract god that can not be clearly defined. . . .

mazaje:

Forget deepshight, he know very well what he is doing that is why he refuses to ascribe silly attributes to his god like the christians, who claim their god is all perfect but then creates imprefect beings(angels and humans), god is an intelligent designer but created some of the human parts unintelligently, their god is all knowing but yet he gets angry and display tantrums when human beings do things in certian ways. A god that knows all things can not be suprised but their god is suprised and shows regrets etc . .He know such a god is impossible so he goes about contructing an abstratc god that can not be clearly defined. . . .

you are the one with a false pathetic and puerile reasoning of even a mild "concept" of any God.

Deep Sight:

Indeed I cautioned you to the effect that the perfection of God would be very different from human conceptions of perfection.

See how you sate this with much absoluteness.

God's perfection is different from human idea of perfection, god's morality is different from human idea of morality, god's time is different from human idea of rime, and on and on.
Bullshyt!

This is exactly my point. You are , like your fellow religious friends, making a great leap, an irrational leap by making an exception for your self-created god.
You are Josh are almost the same in this regard.
You cannot separate what you fantasize about from what is objectively real.

Can you not see your crossing over into magical thinking when you are walled in?

Joshthefirst: you are the one with a false pathetic and puerile reasoning of even a mild "concept" of any God.

This one is here again, why is my reasoning of god false, pathetic and puerile?. . .

plaetton:

See how you sate this with much absoluteness.

God's perfection is different from human idea of perfection, god's morality is different from human idea of morality, god's time is different from human idea of rime, and on and on.
Bullshyt!

This is exactly my point. You are , like your fellow religious friends, making a great leap, an irrational leap by making an exception for your self-created god.
You are Josh are almost the same in this regard.
You cannot separate what you fantasize about from what is objectively real.

Can you not see your crossing over into magical thinking when you are walled in?

what form of magical thinking? Or fantasizing have I displayed? Sorry, but I deal in reality. And I deal with it in real life. I don't pat others on the back decieving myself about mans basic problems and heralding foolish speculations and stjupid reasoning. Thank you.

Joshthefirst: what form of magical thinking? Or fantasizing have displayed? Sorry, but I deal in reality. And I deal with it in real life. I don't pat others on the back decieving myself about mans basic problems and heralding foolish speculations and stjupid reasoning. Thank you.

Yeah like the reality of sin responsible for everything, eh?. . . . . .

plaetton:

See how you sate this with much absoluteness.

God's perfection is different from human idea of perfection, god's morality is different from human idea of morality, god's time is different from human idea of rime, and on and on.
Bullshyt!

This is exactly my point. You are , like your fellow religious friends, making a great leap, an irrational leap by making an exception for your self-created god.
You are Josh are almost the same in this regard.
You cannot separate what you fantasize about from what is objectively real.

Can you not see your crossing over into magical thinking when you are walled in?

I cannot make any sense of what you have written here.

If a creator of the universe exists, I can't imagine how you would wish it to inhabit the same moral space that you inhabit, not to speak of the same time, or the same standards of perfection. That is illogical and bizzare, sir.

mazaje:

Yeah like the reality of sin responsible for everything, eh?. . . . . .

Logicboy03:

You are full of nonsense. You are not sure of what god created, yet he is the ultimate creator. Smh

mazaje:

This one is here again, why is my reasoning of god false, pathetic and puerile?. . .

mazaje:

Yeah like the reality of sin responsible for everything, eh?. . . . . .

See what I said? Human nature will continue to be evil, can never be reformed. All your mockery and talk will not change the fact that the accumulative wrongdoing and false thinking of what mankind does at home and in public is what results in corruption, atheism, and religious hypocrisy. The point of this thread is irrelevant against this truth. Logic is powerless against this. Science is powerless against this.

Joshthefirst:

See what I said? Human nature will continue to be evil, can never be reformed. All your mockery and talk will not change the fact that the accumulative wrongdoing and false thinking of what mankind does at home and in public is what results in corruption, atheism, and religious hypocrisy. The point of this thread is irrelevant against this truth. Logic is powerless against this. Science is powerless against this.

You keep talking about this elusive truth. . Which truth?. . .The truth that there is no god but allah and mohammed is his last messenger or the truth that the universe was created by the hindu gods and goddesses?. . .Which truth are you talking about?. . .

mazaje:

I consider your definition of god to be lacking in substance on many fronts. . .

That's not a problem. We can talk through it.

God is oneness of infinity?. . .

I have explained in the past that this simply means that God is ONE and INFINITE.

You could think of it as being ONE compound being or element, which is eternal, and holds infinite potentials of existence.

Compound of self existent laws,

That the sum of all self-existent laws and realities is what God is.

sum of all time,

Eternity.

infinite mind?. . .

Carrying infinite potentials of existence.

mazaje:

You keep talking about this elusive truth. . Which truth?. . .The truth that there is no god but allah and mohammed is his last messenger or the truth that the universe was created by the hindu gods and goddesses?. . .Which truth are you talking about?. . .

lwkmd

mazaje:

You keep talking about this elusive truth. . Which truth?. . .The truth that there is no god but allah and mohammed is his last messenger or the truth that the universe was created by the hindu gods and goddesses?. . .Which truth are you talking about?. . .

the truth that no one is perfect and everyone does wrong including you. That basic truth is very real and grabs mens attention. The only one I see living in fantasy and speculation and magical thinking is you and your cohorts who cannot differentiate between hypocrisy and honesty, who hide behind atheism and intellectualism to ignore the basic aspects of their lives and existence, hampering human development and doing harm to themselves and their brains and lives.

Joshthefirst: the truth that no one is perfect and everyone does wrong including you. That basic truth is very real and grabs mens attention. The only one I see living in fantasy and speculation and magical thinking is you and your cohorts who cannot differentiate between hypocrisy and honesty, who hide behind atheism and intellectualism to ignore the basic aspects of their lives and existence, hampering human development and doing harm to themselves and their brains and lives.

You mean no one is perfect and no one can be perfect?

Joshthefirst: the truth that no one is perfect and everyone does wrong including you. That basic truth is very real and grabs mens attention. The only one I see living in fantasy and speculation and magical thinking is you and your cohorts who cannot differentiate between hypocrist and honesty, who hide behind atheism and intellectualism to ignore the basic aspects of their lives and existence, hampering human development and doing harm to themselves.

When and where did I admit that I do no wrong or that I am perfect? . . . .Which hypocrisy and honesty are you talking about and how can I not differentiate btw them?. . .How do I hide behind atheism to ignore basic aspects of life, what basic aspect of life are you talking about?. . . .How has atheism done harm to humans?. . .How does it hamper human development?. . . The only tool that man uses to gain real and true knowledge of himself and his surrouding is science and science is atheistic in nature since it dwells and makes its conclusions on a naturalist world view. . .How has the knowledge of Jesus christ being god help humanity to gain any knowledge or develop as a race?. . .

Deep Sight:

I cannot make any sense of what you have written here.

If a creator of the universe exists, I can't imagine how you would wish it to inhabit the same moral space that you inhabit, not to speak of the same time, or the same standards of perfection. That is illogical and bizzare, sir.

Isn't this enough logical proof that a creator does not exist in our reality?

Ponder on this.

Deep Sight:

I have told you what God is many times, Mazaje. I will remind you of a few of my many short descriptions:

- - - The Oneness of Infinity (remember that?)
- - - The Compound of Self-Existent Laws (remember that?)
- - - The Sum of all Infinite Time & Infinite Space (remember that?)
- - - The Infinite Mind (remember that?)

You are free to disagree with all of these descriptions, and even laugh at them (such as OoI) but you are not free to claim that I have not stated what God is. I have. In many ways.

This, I can never take seriously.

I do not know that God, the creator of the infinite Universes, directly created the human brain. I said that it shows hallmarks of design and I stand by that. I do not know that God was the direct designer. If you had been attentive, you would have seen me say this repeatedly and saved yourself the stress of making presumptions and leaps.

There is much we don't know, but to take a look at the functions of the brain, and claim not to see that it is a product of advanced design beyond our furthest knowledge, is nothing but ignorance, dishonesty, foo.lishness, and even illiteracy.

I also cannot take this seriously, in light of my many explanations over the years regarding the issue of "which god".

In the cosmological debates between atheists and theists, there is only one God that should be at issue: that God said to be the Creator. Tribal or ethnic colorations or appellations are neither here nor there. The philosophical and cosmological construct of a causative creator is what should be discussed.

Whining on forever about myriad gods, is just petty and intellectually lazy and shallow, in my opinion.



The very weak defence of scientists, when shown the grave improbability of the evolution of various systems (such as se.xual reproductive systems, for example) is to simply shout - "millions of years! It took millions of years!!"

This is actually a very weak and foo.lish revert, and it shows the deep ignorance of many so called scientists on this matter. There is no natural selection that can explain the existence of male as distinct from female, in the first place, just as an example. Not to speak of the full faculties of the brain.

Deep Sight:

Mazaje, I have no response to you because I have long detailed all that you ask for, but more particularly because you are not keenly following the discussion and the points made:

Those points are -

1. I asserted for design (with the human brain as example and evidence thereof)

2. I made it very clear that this design is not necessarily design performed directly by the Creator God: I have stated this in several posts here but you are not following. This renders most of your ranting moot.

3. I have defined the God I discuss a zillion times over on this board, and you as a very old poster here are very well aware of that. In doing so I have avoided petty dispute about this or that tribal god, and have spoken always of that first cause of all existence as we know it - regardless of appellation or tribal attribution. Therefore wasting my time with cries of Vishnu and Zeus and Yahweh and Allah, will not cut it for me - erspecially as you are an old poster here who is very well acquainted with my arguments on same.

4. If you are looking for a photo shoot with this God, that I speak of, I am sorry I cannot help you. Deductive reasoning in all things however discloses the existence of a transcendent non material power responsible for cause. I have, as I said, made the relevant deductions and inductions in this regard, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. I will care to repeat them to a newbie, here, but not to someone like you who has read tons of what I have to say on the matter since 2009 till date.

5. At all events, your post has conceded to a designed brain - - - >



- - - and that was what I sought to state. I therefore am in a position to rest my case as far as your intervention is concerned. You are free to call the designer whatever you please, including Odin or Olodumare, or even Obasanjo.

Same difference to me.

I am a newbie. Can you drop a link or two for me? I am curious about the origins of your way of thinking. How did you come to these conclusions? Christianity claims growth and enlightenment from Christ’s teachings. Atheism claims freedom from superstition, fear and irrational thought. (To Atheist: This is my understanding. I am not afraid of correction.) Do you gain any semblance of peace or enlightenment from your stance? Your way of thinking is thought provoking. Dose it create opportunity for growth? Is it a discipline that can be studied to gain further knowledge? What is your stance on religion? What is your stance on the Bible? These are a few of the questions I have. Please drop links and comments accordingly. If you will. Pease and thank you.

mazaje:

When and where did I admit that I do no wrong or that I am perfect? . . .

when you denied sin.

mazaje: Which hypocrisy and honesty are you talking about and how can I not differentiate btw them?. .

you and your cohorts blame christian religion for nigerians backwardness and claim every wrong-doing done by a man who professes to be a christian debunks christianity, ignoring the countless people who uphold the christian faith in righteousness and integrity. Remember you are the one who brought up the reality of sin here, nopt me, you chose this drift.

mazaje: How do I hide behind atheism to ignore basic aspects of life, what basic aspect of life are you talking about?. . . .

human nature and its corruption.

mazaje: How has atheism done harm to humans?. . .How does it hamper human development?. . .

atheism has told us religion is our problem, when infact human nature is. You have distracted us with fantasizing about no-god and evolution, you have told us morality is subjective and supported the notion that morality hinges on personal opinion, resulting in chaos in society.

mazaje: The only tool that man uses to gain real and true knowledge of himself and his surrouding is science and science is atheistic in nature since it dwells and makes its conclusions on a naturalist world view. . .How has the knowledge of Jesus christ being god help humanity to gain any knowledge or develop as a race?. . .

the knowledge of Jesus christ saving us from sin has given men hope and inspired men to stand in integrity for good and righteousness in this nation and many other places countless times. Has enabled men to sacrifice.




Please stop all this fanatical attacks that will do us no good except give the next generation more reason to continue in imperfection and corruptive wrongdoing.

Joshthefirst: when you denied sin.

What is sin?. . .

you and your cohorts blame christian religion for nigerians backwardness and claim every wrong-doing done by a man who professes to be a christian debunks christianity, ignoring the countless people who uphold the christian faith in righteousness and integrity. Remember you are the one who brought up the reality of sin here, nopt me, you chose this drift.

Christianity is part of the problem bedevilling this country because it encourages belief in myth and supersition which is detrimental to our collective development as a nation. . . .There are many people of other faiths in Nigeria that are not christians that have done the nation well. . .The best governor in Nigeria(Fashola is not a christian) so stop talking about christianity as if it is the last hope of this nation, it is a very big problem to this nation. . .The day we decide to embrace the fact that everything we need to do must be done by us alone without the help of any god is the day we will begin to move forward. . .All the developed countries embraced that line of reasoning now see where they are. . .

human nature and its corruption.

Human nature contains both the good and they bad, we are all capable of showing and responding to love, capable of displaying and enbaracing prejudice etc. . . So i don't know why you dwell too much on this bogus theology of sin as if it means anything. . .Hope you know that according to allah the creator of the universe you are a sinner that will dwell in hell unless you believe in him and his last messenger mohammed?. . .

atheism has told us religion is our problem, when infact human nature is. You have distracted us with fantasizing about no-god and evolution, you have told us morality is subjective and supported the notion that morality hinges on personal opinion, resulting in chaos in society.

Religion like racism is part of our problem because it encourages segregation, it encourages the us vs them mentality, take a look at the world around you and at Nigeria. . .Religious crisis is and has been one of the main courses of insecurity in Nigeria. . .

the knowledge of Jesus christ saving us from sin has given men hope and inspired men to stand in integrity for good and righteousness in this nation and many other places countless times. Has enabled men to sacrifice.

Name on good thing or sacrifice that a christian has done that no atheist, muslim, hindu, taoist etc has never done. . .Just name one please

Please stop all this fanatical attacks that will do us no good except give the next generation more reason to continue in imperfection and corruptive wrongdoing.

When you stop all these fanitical post of your then I will stop. . .Why do you hide your hate and prejudice of others under the pretext of sin and wrong doing. . .Its repulsive man. . .