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| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 4:15am On Sep 01, 2014 |
usermane:In addition to your questions above, Aisha (RA) says: “My father (Abu Bakr) had a collection of 500 hadiths. One night I noticed that he was very restless. He was tossing about in the bed and could go to sleep. I got worried over this and inquired. “Are you suffering from any trouble or worried about anything?” But he did not speak and remained restless throughout the night. Next morning he called me and said, “bring the collection of hadith that I gave you to keep.” I brought the book and he set fire to it, till it was burnt. He said “The collection contained many hadiths that I had heard from other people. I thought if I died and left behind a Hadith accepted as authentic by me, but really not so, then I should have to answer for that.” (Source: By Muhammed Zakaria, Faza’il-E-Amaal Chapter “stories of Sahabah”, page 140) It was Abu Bakr’s (RA) zeal for knowledge that caused him to compile a book of 500 hundred hadiths. But it was due to his extreme cautiousness that he burnt the collection of Hadiths. Another thing to note is that if Abu Bakr wrote down hadiths and it was forbidden by the prophet at the time, would he really go against the prophet’s commands and write it? The answer will be no!! It is clear that the writing of hadith were not forbidden. Claim 5 “I wanted to write the Sun’an, and I remembered a people who were before you, they wrote other books to follow and abandoned the book of God. And I will never, I swear, replace God’s book with anything” (Jami Al-Bayan 1/67) (1) Response: Omar wrote a Book on Law to Shreih, he said: “If there is anything in Allah’s Book, act according to it and do not let men deviate you from it and if there anything not mentioned in Allah’s book, look into the Sunna of the messenger of Allah (pbuh) and judge on it accordingly.” (Source: Muhammed Redha “Al Farouk Omar Ibn Khattab, page 54 and it is mentioned in the Book of Al Bayan and Tabyeen) (2) Did Umar forbid the writing? As to Umar, we learn on the authority of Ma’mar ibn Rashid, that during his caliphate, Umar once consulted the companions of the Prophet on the subject of codifying the Hadith. Each person affirmed that such a codification should be done. Yet Umar continued to hesitate and pray to God for a whole month for guidance and enlightenment. Ultimately, he decided not to undertake the task, and said: “Former peoples neglected the Divine Books and concentrated only on the conduct of the prophets; I do not want to set up the possibility of confusion between the Qur’an and the Prophet’s Hadith.”(Source: Dr. Hamidullah Introduction to Islam. Kuwait. 1977. Page 33) The only reason he didn’t want to write as well as compile Hadith Books is because HE didn’t want people to concentrate on the Hadith of the Prophets more and forget about the Book of Allah. But he never forbade people from writing them. He himself didn’t prefer it. There is not one Authentic Hadith in any book where he forbade people from writing Hadith down. (3) Umar Ibn Al-Khattab wrote hadiths to the following people: 1- Utbah bin Farqad 2- Abu Ubaidah bin Al-Jarrah 3- He presented Abdullah bin Omar hadiths that had to do with sadaqaat. (Source: Dirasaat fil Hadith Al-Nabawi page 131 and139) More evidence that Umar followed and encouraged Hadiths, the Sunnah of the prophet (pbuh): Umar Ibn Khattab delivered a sermon after the prophet’s death and said: Ma’dan b. Talha reported: ‘Umar b. Khattab, delivered the Friday sermon and he made a mention of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr. He (further) said: I saw in a dream that a cock pecked me twice, and I perceive that my death is near. Some people have suggested me to appoint my successor. And Allah would not destroy His religion. His caliphate and that with which He sent His Apostle (may peace be upon him) If death approaches me soon, the (issue) of Caliphate (would be decided) by the consent of these six men with whom the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) remained well pleased till his death. And I know fully well that some people would blame me that I killed with these very hands of mine some persons who apparently professed (Islam). And if they do this (blame me) they are the enemies of Allah, and are non-believers and have gone astray. And I leave not after me anything which to my mind seems more important than Kalala. And I never turned towards the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) (for guidance) more often than this Kalala, and he (the Prophet) was not annoyed with me on any other (issue) than this: (And he was so perturbed) that he struck his fingers on my chest and said: Does this verse. that is at the end of Surat al-Nisa’. which was revealed in the hot season not suffice you? And if I live longer I would decide this (problem so clearly) that one who reads the Qur’an, or one who does not read it, would be able to take (correct), decisions (under its light). He (‘Umar) further said: Allah! I call You witness on these Governors of lands, that I sent them to (the peoples of these lands) so that they should administer justice amongst them, teach them their religion and the Sunnah of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him), and distribute amongst them the spoils of war and refer to me that which they find difficult to perform. O people. you eat ‘these two plants and these are onions and garlic. and I find them nothing but repugnant for I saw that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sensed the odour of these two from a person in a mosque, he was made to go to al-Baqi’. So he who eats it should (make its odour) die by cooking it well. (Source: Sahih Muslim Book #4, Hadith number #1151) (5) Umar Ibn Khattab said “Try to understand whatever cases are referred to you where there is no evidence from the Quran or Sunnah, then try to make an analogy between the case that is before you and similar cases that are dealt with in Quran and Sunnah.” (Source: Ilam al-Muwaqqi’een, 1/85; Majallah al-Bulooth al-Ilmiyah, 7/287) http://discover-the-truth.com/2013/05/27/refutation-did-the-prophet-his-companions-prohibit-the-writing-of-hadiths-part-1/ Oh actually, Tbaba answered some of your concerns. Check it out. I just saw it. Thanks Tbaba. Will check whatever else needs to be answered. Later nau. Offline |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by freshp(m): 10:43am On Sep 01, 2014 |
tbaba1234: The Khawarij No wonder ISIS and the likes are just killing people wantonly....with hadiths like these(and i know there are so many similar ones too)the sky is just the beginning for such people.. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by AlBaqir(m): 11:09am On Sep 01, 2014 |
username: tbaba1234: *It is a fallacy per excellence that Abu Hurayrah has no work and that he followed the prophet (peace be on him and his family) around. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani mentions Bisra (Utbah's sister) in the first section of his famous work Al-Isaba fi Akhbar al-Sahaba and says the following about Bisra: "She used to let him (Abu Hurayra) work for her during the time of the prophet (peace be on him and his family), then he married her after that when Marwan (Ibn Hakam) used to let him be in charge of Madina during the time of Mu'awiyah." In his Tabaqat, Ibn Sa'd quotes Abu Hurayra as saying the following about his wife, Bisra: "I placed myself at the service of the daughter of Ghazwan in exchange for food for my stomach and for something to wear on my feet...she used to order me to ride while serving her and to approach her barefoot to serve her. After that, Allah made her my wife, so I ordered her to ride as she served me and to approach me barefoot!!" Thus Abu Hurayra "got even" with the unfortunate lady! His attachment to the holy prophet Imam al-Bukhari in his Sahih mentioned a long tradition that Abu Hurayra said he had kept to the Prophet just for feed. (Vol. 1 p. 24 chapter of knowledge" section on "memorizing knowledge"  And another narrated by Ibn Musayyab and Abu Salama that Abu Hurayra said: "I kept to the prophet just for feed". (Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 2 pg. 1) Al-Bukhari also recorded that Abu Hurayra said: "I often fainted between the minbar of the prophet and the room of Aisha. The comers put their feet on my neck thinking I was mad. But I was not mad. It was just because of hunger. " (Vol.4 chapter of "seeking Quran and Sunnah" pg, 175) Al-Bukhari mentioned that Abu Hurayrah said: "People say that Abu Hurayrah narrated much many traditions. I kept to the prophet just to satisfy my hunger. I neither ate good food nor wore new clothes. I was not served by anyone. I stuck my abdomen to the ground because of hunger. I asked some people to recite me a Quranic verse, which I already knew, that they might invite me for for some food. The best one for the poor was Ja'far ibn Abi Talib. He took us with Him to give us whatever food was there in his house." (Al-Bukhari, Sahih vol.2 pg. 1; Abu Na'eem's Hilyatul Awliya', vol. 1 pg. 378) Sahih vol. 2 section on "Virtues of Jafar" pg 197; Abu Na'eem's Hilyatul Awliya', vol. 1 pg. 117) tbaba1234: 1460 ÷ 360days (1year) = 4.055years. NB: the fact that lunar calendar is 29 or 30 hence the use of 360days. Infact I used 30days in a month all through i.e 30 x 12 = 360days. Using 29days will even increase the so-called number of years he spent. This is a big LIE. He never spent upto that years in the company of the holy prophet. Abu Hurayra met the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family) immediately after the battle of Khaybar in the end of 7AH, and embraced Islam. According to the sequence employed by Ibn Sa'd in his Tabaqat, Abu Hurayra ranks in the 9th or 10th class of narrators of hadith. He came to the prophet near the end of the 7th H. Hence, historian say that he accompanied the prophet no more than 3years according to the best estimates, while other historians say it was no more than two years if we take into consideration the fact that the prophet sent him to accompany Ibn al-Hadrami to Bahrain, then the prophet died while he was still in Bahrain. Traditions narrated by him or attributed to him is 5, 374 traditions. This fact and figure is stated in the famous classic reference titled "Siyar A'lam an Nubala by at-Thahbi. This figure is questionable not only due to the short period he spent in the company of the prophet (peace be on him and his family) which was on and off, whenever such company did not involve any danger to his life, but also due to the fact that Abu Hurayra did not know how to read and write. Imam Bukhari only endorse no more than 93 of Abu Hurayra's narration in his Sahih. Imam Muslim endorsed only 89. This alone falsify the so-called research of the Dr. that he only narrated 42hadiths. There are no repetition whatsoever in his narration recorded by Bukhari. Imam Ali (as) and Abu Bakar spent most years with the holy prophet (peace be on him and his family). In fact, 'Ali (as), the man raised by the prophet and who was always with him, following him like his shadow for 32years and whose memory and integrity nobody at all can question, narrated no more than 586 traditions. How is it then reasonable that father of kitten reported 5000+ hadith within 2+years? Value of Abu Hurayra's Narration? 1. * Umar once reprimanded him on hearing that he was narrating incredibly too many traditions and attributing them to the prophet. He rebuked him and said: "You shall leave alone quoting the messenger of Allah or I shall send you back to the Daws land or to the land of apes" ~Ibn Asakir, hadith no. 4885 p. 239, vol. 5 of Kanz ummal; Musaddad also narrates in his Musnad through khalid ibn Yahya. Sahih Muslim vol. 1 p. 34 tells us that 'Umar once hit Abu Hurayra during the lifetime of the prophet so hard causing the man to fall on his rear end. 2. * When Imam 'Ali (as) came to know that Abu Hurayra used to say, "My friend (i.e the Messenger of Allah) talked to me," or "I saw my friend," he said to him, "When did the prophet (peace be on him and his family) ever be your friend, O Abu Hurayra?!" ~Ibn Qutaybah, 'Ta'weel mukhtalaf al-ahadith, p. 52. 3. Aisha too testified to Abu Hurayra being a liar: "What are all these ahadith which reach us and which you tell people that the prophet said them? Have you heard anything which we did not hear, or have you seen anything which we did not see?" In a rude and impolite way, Abu Hurayra answered Aisha with these words: "Mother! The Mirror and Kohl diverted you from the hadith of the messenger of Allah" ~al-Hakim, Sahih al-Mustadrak vol. 3 p. 509; and al-Thahbi testified to its authenticity and adding that 'Aisha did not accept Abu Hurayra's excuse by the token she boycotted him till she died. Marwan ibn al-Hakam, Aisha's cousin, interfered and took upon himself to verify one hadith the authenticity of which 'Aisha questioned. It was then that Abu Hurayra admitted, "I did not hear it from the Messenger of Allah; rather, I heard it from al-Fadl ibn al-Abbas, " ~Sahih al-Bukhari vol. 2 p. 232 in a chapter dealing with a fasting person who wakes up finding himself in the state of Janaba, and also on p. 272, vol 1 of Imam Malik's Muwata. It is because of this particular narration that Ibn Qutaybah charged Abu Hurayra with lying saying, "Abu Hurayra claimed that al-Fadl ibn al-Abbas, who had by then died, testified to the authenticity of that tradition which he attributed to him in order to mislead people into thinking that he had heard it from him." Imam Bukhari in his Sahih states: Abu Hurayrah said once, "The prophet said, 'the best charity is willingly given; the higher hand is better than the lower one, and start with your own dependents. A woman says: 'Either feed me or divorce me.' A slave says, 'Feed me and use me.' As son says, 'Feed me for the woman who will forsake me.'" He was asked, "O Abu Hurayra! Did you really hear the Messenger of Allah say so?" He said, 'No, this one is from Abu Hurayra's pouch!" ~Sahih, al-Bukhari, vol. 6 p. 190, in a chapter dealing with spending on the wife and children. While it is understandable that Sunni scholars will go to any length to protect the Adalah of ALL sahaba, stooping so low with a so-called computerized claim to exonerate Abu Hurayrah's astronomical and excessive narration of 5000+ to 42 is laughable. The fact and figure of all the sahaba's narration is stated in the Sunni famous classic reference titled "Siyar A'lam an Nubala by at-Thahbi". |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 11:34am On Sep 01, 2014 |
@AlBaqir, i was expecting this head-on. That's the reason I avoided this Usermane question on Abu Huraira. I hope you will keep the differences at minimum. I came across Tbaba's response on Abu Huraira as well. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 12:06pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
Empiree: She's now on live support in NY hospital. But earlier this month she was ranting on Gaza. Wikipedia said she died on August 19, 2014. Few minutes later they removed it. humm, she didnt know that As'srail was knocking. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by AlBaqir(m): 1:33pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
Empiree: @AlBaqir, i was expecting this head-on. That's the reason I avoided this Usermane question on Abu Huraira. I hope you will keep the differences at minimum. I came across Tbaba's response on Abu Huraira as well. Really that was exactly what I did @underlined. I simply can't close my eyes on Abu hurayrah. And what I've posted about him is just a tip of iceberg. I however commend you guys (Empiree and tbaba1234) with your subtle dialogue with username. May Allah guide him, and keep us to the right path. Salam. 1 Like |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 1:47pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
^ I also expected it, so I avoided saying anything about shia. Albaqir could not resist. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 2:29pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
Regardless of whatever hadith you cite in support of your position on salat, refering to my last post, you only further confirm that there exist discrepancies in Hadith concerning Salat. Empiree this is a fatal flaw in your Books. Note that i haven't even delved into contradictory reports in hadith books on subject of ablution or other salat related issues. Now, i "ll deal with the 5 questions raised in your last post with regard to you and tbaba1234 's responses. 1. True, hadith were in circulation even during the Prophets life. But he never attributed divinity to them, infact he discouraged them. There is hadith in Sahih books which he forbade writting his words beside Quran and order anyone who had done that to erase them. It is a baseless claim that he temporarily stopped writting of hadith in order to prevent mixing up with Quranic verses. There was enough paper, enough ink, even you believe that nothing in writting is comparable with the Quran. Muhammad and his followers weren't dumb enough to mix up Verses with oral traditions. Even a Primary 3 student can take down notes on Basic sciences or Health sciences simulatenously without mixing up. Did you also claim that the arabs didn't see recording of Hadith necessary because they were experts in memorisation and recitation? Well, if the hadiths are divine sayings of the messenger, then like the Quran, the arabs or infact messenger should have recorded it instead of waiting for some fellows do the job for him. No matter how retentive one 's memory is, writting down infos cannot be overemphasized. 2. Silly question? The Prophets, the Ummayads were arabs. It raises curiousity that non of the compilers of the six "authentic" books of hadith was an arab. I 'll tell you what. The ummayads(arabs) did fabricate and peddle hadiths but they knew it to be scam, a tool to assert their political or social stand, they could narrate and dispute their conjectures but they dared not go against the order of the Prophet and officially write and market any book in his name. The Quran remained the only official source of Islamic law. When the Abbasids(Persians) took over, they rejected any policy from the Ummayad and went on to record hadiths highly costumised to their position. They needed to blend Islam with their culture and justify every atrocity they perperturated and what better means can these be achieved other than attributing to the Prophet? Your salat prayer for instance is a perfectly imitation of the Zoroastrian ritual; NAMAZ. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 2:38pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
3. Your responses here fully eluciadates on the degree of discrepancies in your books. Abubakar of all people closest to the messenger should have no reason to burn his 'own' hadith books if he considered them official source of Islamic law. The funny thing is that if he indeed burnt those hadith prior to death, then it is only reasonable that he never resorted to them in the past. Then if Umar refused to compile hadith after recommendation from his people, doesn't that mean he find hadith not so relevant to be written and spread? In short, how can Umar even require the consent of his people to compile hadith if truely the Prophet permitted it after the Quran was completed. There is hadith in Hanbal, that the Prophet never turned back in his stand against recording hadith. The explanation on Abu Huraira seem manageable, but it is out of point. Whoever asked of how many narrations were exclusive to Abu Huraira. The fact is that he reported hearing over by far numerous hadith(than other companions) directly from the Prophet in a span of less than 2 years. Didn't he or the prophet do any other than discussing hadith 24/7? Science of Hadith has never appealed to me. It cannot be used to prove the veracity of hadith for a number of reasons. From the onset till now, scholars have disputed on the credibility of the narrators. Their approval of narrators were often influenced by sectarian, personal or racial differences. If it is possible to determine and agree on a persons character from opinions collected after his death, i wonder why Abu Bakr isn't recognised in Shiite culture. tbaba1234:Quit teacher complex, Big man. You too should be capable of giving logical and moral explanation. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 2:46pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
tbaba1234: The Khawarij This is the same hadith cited by Islamist insurgents as a basis for killing muslims who dare condemns them and by citing this hadith/oral tradition in reference to me, the poster confirms his side on the table even though he might have never expressed verbal support for Islamist insurgency. The fabricators/writers of hadith faced oppositions from the onset. On attaining victory, in a pre- emptive strike to shield their fabrications from probing or questioning, they also fabricated cheap prophecies like this to convince their opponents, which unfortunately for them doesn't hold a candle to Quranic prophecies. The poster likens me to the khawarij but i tell you, he has more in common with this historic sect than i do. Spare the rod. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 4:43pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
freshp: This hadith is evidence againgst ISIS and extreme groups not for them. It encourages muslims to fight against groups of this kind. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 4:46pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
usermane: Your ignorance knows no bound. What is the context of the hadith?? Who was it talking about? |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by freshp(m): 6:04pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
usermane:My sentiments exactly....Its just looking gloomy a future where the hadiths are superseding the quran....everywhere hadith this hadith that...Hmmm. when the Quran Clearly states that: Q17:33 And do not take any human being's life - [the life] which God has willed to be, sacred - otherwise than in [the pursuit of] justice." Hence, if anyone has been slain wrongfully, We have empowered the defender of his rights [to exact a just retribution] ;39 but even so, let him not exceed the bounds of equity in [retributive] killing.40 [And as for him who has been slain wrongfully -] behold, he is indeed succoured [by God] |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 6:33pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
freshp: The Quran also says you should follow the messenger. You can not understand the Quran without understanding the context of revelation. The hadith compliments the Quran, it does not supercede it. It is literal translations without respect for context that leads to extremism. 1 Like |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 6:35pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
freshp: An example of the complimentary nature: The scholars of Islam have underscored five major objectives of the Islamic law based on the noble Quran and the Sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad. These objectives are the protection and promotion of the following: 1.Religion 2. Life 3. Progeny or family 4. Intellect or mind 5. Property or wealth your primary purpose of existence is the worship of Allah; from that comes everything including the sanctity of human life. Allah tells us Himself it is sacred(roughly translated): Do not take life, which God has made sacred, except by right: if anyone is killed wrongfully, We have given authority to the defender of his rights, but he should not be excessive in taking life, for he is already aided [by God]. (Surah 17:33) Here, Allah declares the sanctity of Human life, and only permits it when a crime such as murder is committed even then the option is given to the family on whether to carry out the punishment. This is in the case of murder... So how sacred is human life? Allah says in the Quran (roughly translated): On account of [his deed], We decreed to the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person– unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land– it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind. Our messengers came to them with clear signs, but many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Surah 5:32) Allah relays to us a decree to the previous muslim nation that applies to us. Anyone who kills a person unjustly is as if he has killed the whole of humanity and anyone who saves a life has saved not only that life but the whole of humanity. This is the weight of taking a person's life unjustly... And this is not only for muslims: The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever kills a mu‘aahid (a non-Muslim living under Muslim rule) will not smell the fragrance of Paradise, although its fragrance may be detected from a distance of forty years.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2995 Anyone who kills non-muslim living in the land of the muslims will not smell the fragrance of pardise... We are to deal justly and kindly with those who have done nothing to harm us: Allah says "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8) We are to deal justly and kindly with those that have not harmed us in any way... So wars do happen, don't they? ... What are the rules of conflict for the muslim? Narrated By 'Abdullah : During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children. (Saheeh Muslim Book 019, Hadith Number 4319). Then Abu Bakr, the first caliph based on the prophetic teaching advised a military commander, Yazid, "I advise you ten things| Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly." Maliks Muwatta Book 021, Hadith Number 010. You are not even allowed to kill animals except for food, nor cut trees The present life is used to attain the after-life, therefore it is important that a muslim uses what he has been given in this life to attain the success of the hereafter. Islam is all about fulfilling the rights of everyone, Fulfilling the rights of Allah, Fulfilling the rights of the prophet, Fulfilling the rights of of your neighbour, fulfilling the rights of your employer, fulfilling the rights of your parents, fulfilling the rights of your children, fulfilling the rights of your wife, Fulfilling the rights of the animals. Islam implies that you fulfill all the rights... Allah says in the Quran (roughly translated): God commands you [people] to return things entrusted to you to their rightful owners, and, if you judge between people, to do so with justice: God’s instructions to you are excellent, for He hears and sees everything. (Surah Nisa:58) "O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do" (5:  The watch word for the muslim is Justice even if it is against himself... A muslim that kills an innocent person will have to face justice with Allah. As regards terrorism, whether it is committed by a state that sends an army or drones to kill innocent people or a group of militants for any ideology. It is deeply frowned upon by Islam. Unfortunately, there are some muslims who have used their anger at the state of the muslims to commit acts that have no historical or scriptural basis in Islam. Allah allows for Self defence when you are wronged but there are limits that must not be transgressed. Allah says (roughly translated): There is no cause to act against anyone who defends himself after being wronged, but there is cause to act against those who oppress people and transgress in the land against all justice– they will have an agonizing torment– (Surah 42: 41-42) I hope this answers your question. 3 Likes |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:31pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
tbaba1234: I doubt your interpretation of that hadith. While it is true that ISIS militants should be fought for their atrocities, this hadith doesn't specify those to be killed as the militants or terrorists. Rather it permit killing of those promoting "false/heretic interpretation of the Qur'an, who don't really practice Islam". The people to be killed according to this hadith can only be limited to Khawarij if violence and aggression had also been mentioned as their traits. Shouldn't have degenerated into this. Think a bit more intro before posting that hadith could have alerted me that you were changing the subject, since prior to that, your posts were directed at me. Regardless, please let bygone be bygone. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 8:34pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
tbaba1234: The KhawarijIf Usermane couldnt understand this hadith, i wonder how he would understand Salat. I see he posted this hadith in another thread trying to make a point with his cohorts. He got you confused with Khawarij. He seems to be suffering from lack  . The fact that I was tired last night while posting his replies, I still understood your hadith. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 8:53pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
usermane:Allah doesnt love you. If He does, He would have made you understood the religion. If there are Salat practices in AHadith that you consider discrepancies, I wonder how these "discrepancies" are not obvious in the obligatory Salat in the entire Ummah. Contrary is the case. The issue of Salat is not really a matter of methodology, rather System of Meaning which you are too lazy to figure out. I will not go further with you on Salat. Reading your threads and posts on NL on religion issues, it's clear that you are agent of fasad (whether you know it or not). You seem to think rationally a times but siding with you on those "a times" may mesmerize you ([size=5pt]you do not give me opportunity to praise or appreciate some of your positive criticisms and observations[/size]). That's why I better leave you to yourself sometimes. I think i have 1 or 2 more questions to answer. Will come up with that later. Both Ahlu-Hadith and Ahl-Quran like yourself are both misguided and extremists. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 9:20pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
Empiree: The guy is just ignorant and is not open minded enough to learn. Waste of time.. Maybe a one on one session will be more beneficial for him. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 9:29pm On Sep 01, 2014 |
tbaba1234:I told him already to open a challenge with Ulama in his locality. Have it recorded and then posted on here. That internet is not too robust for this dialogue. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by zemaye: 10:09am On Sep 02, 2014 |
Empiree:At the bolded that's rather harsh bro. May Allah forgive us all. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 10:53am On Sep 02, 2014 |
zemaye:I apologize if it does |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Hkana: 11:30am On Sep 02, 2014 |
zemaye: Ameen. Oya, Empiree come and say "Amin"  |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 1:20pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
Hkana:Ameen. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 4:03pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
In the early 1400s, a scholar of fiqh from the Hijaz, Abd al-Rahman al-Tamimi, traveled to Timbuktu only to realize that the level of scholarship there was so high there that he would have to go to Fez first to take prerequisite courses before he could study with Mali’s scholars. Lost Islamic History. 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:11pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
Pride And Self righteousness. Pride is a state where a man is so full of himself that he feels those who oppose his ideas must be silenced. Selfrighteousness is a state where interest banking is evil because it exploits the poor while non-muslims must be made to pay "Jizya" because this isn't exploitation but the decree of ..... You see, it is the problem with you guys, Empiree. You always swear; "he is ignorant, he is misguided"(Quran 49:11). As if you know it all. Added to that, you elevated yourself to the position of telling us who God loves or not. But you didn't stop there, you crossed the line and called me an agent of mischief/fasad(Quran 5:33). In the space of a few hours, tbaba1234 called me ignorant no less than 3 times. If only u realise that "misguided, ignorant" are relative terms. I have met far educated persons, they don't swear, they don't use rude words like "ignorant or misguided" for particular. Each time you swear at me, am hardly bothered, even Abubakar Shekau swears at muslims who disagree with him. I can feel the rage behind those words, i can feel the hate in your chest and i learn from it, am grateful to God. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:13pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
I cited 4 hadith on only salat that contradict your method of salat and what did you do? You responded with 4 other hadith that contradict those ones but support you. In short, you contradicted your book, your book contradict itself and we all know contradictions has no place in a true Book of God. You missed several historical facts, you cannot even cite an evidence that Prophet was divinely taught how to perform salat so as to teach it like Abraham(21:73). Then i asked 5 questions on hadith books, you had to stand aside for tbaba to intervene. Tbaba came with responses that only irrational people will take like ;"Writing Hadith was originally forbidden to prevent mixing hadith with Quran". It is funny how he want to teach everyone when his creed is repeatedly debunked by Shiites here using his own Sahih Books. If i "ll ever return to hadith, i ''ll become a Shiite because over and over they have proved to have more evidence in even the sunni books and rely more on intellect than you sunnis. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:15pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
Am tired of debating proponents of Hadith who have never read a full volume of Sahih Bukhari in their life, who haven't even seen a copy of Sunan Abudawood in their life but yet want me to join their bandwagon in either cherrypicking from or blindly abiding by traditions that have no beggining or end, no confirmed total count, no Quranic or historical legitimacy. It is God 's mercy that i discovered His true message[Quran 25:30-31]. Otherwise, i 'll still be choking from oral traditions that are full of blasphemies against God, slanders against the Prophet, hate, aggressive, misorgynistic and backward teachings. Keep your questions to yourself, Empiree. Am not going to reply. I 've had enough of your crap, at least for the meantime. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 9:14pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
usermane: Am tired of debating proponents of Hadith who have never read a full volume of Sahih Bukhari in their life, who haven't even seen a copy of Sunan Abudawood in their life but yet want me to join their bandwagon in either cherrypicking from or blindly abiding by traditions that have no beggining or end, no confirmed total count, no Quranic or historical legitimacy.I dont recall telling you that i have questions for you. It seems I said I have 1 or 2 (of your questions) to answer. Sometimes, you need to calm down and read slowly. If you can not understand simple hadith posted by Tbaba and you cant understand my statement about answering your questions, then, i can confidently say this is (also) reason you cant understand Salat. Well, I'll keep my answers myself. You may disagree with the Ummah but guess what, Surah 4:115 is binding on you. And I have apologized for overstatement I made earlier. Finally, we believe that you are only threading Islam but you lack the knowledge. Enough said now. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 9:24pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
usermane: I cited 4 hadith on only salat that contradict your method of salat and what did you do? You responded with 4 other hadith that contradict those ones but support you. In short, you contradicted your book, your book contradict itself and we all know contradictions has no place in a true Book of God. You missed several historical facts, you cannot even cite an evidence that Prophet was divinely taught how to perform salat so as to teach it like Abraham(21:73).Be Shia then. Period |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 9:34pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
usermane: I cited 4 hadith on only salat that contradict your method of salat and what did you do? You responded with 4 other hadith that contradict those ones but support you. In short, you contradicted your book, your book contradict itself and we all know contradictions has no place in a true Book of God. You missed several historical facts, you cannot even cite an evidence that Prophet was divinely taught how to perform salat so as to teach it like Abraham[b](21:73)[/b].Honestly, I think tbaba was right. It's better to ignore you sometimes. Only Allah can make you understand. |
| Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 9:44pm On Sep 02, 2014 |
usermane: Pride And Self righteousness.I didnt elevate myself to anything. Pls dont attribute such thing to me. You keep talking about swearing at you. Looks like you playing victim card. Or you think i dont see your posts or threads somewhere else saying all kinds of nonsense against muslims and trying to take credit for yourself?. Oh well, keep to yourself brother. You do not need to bring this Sunni-Shia into this. Shias themselves disagree with you. Which means you have common problems with the rest of Muslims, sunni or shia doesnt matter. |
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