tbaba1234: Did you know:

Over 1400 years and not one fabricated hadith has been ascribed to a women! No women has ever made up a lie regarding the prophet PBUH, SubhanAllah, amazing.

That's awesome.

mentioned by Shiekh Yawar Baig

TheBigUrban2:

Then there is the story of Asma Bint Marwan

tbaba1234:

A summary:

Truly We have opened up a path to clear triumph for you [Prophet], (Surah 48:1)


Alright, so in azhab, the quraish gathered tribes in arabia to fight against the muslim... the only thing saving the muslims from complete anahiliation was a trench which ensured that the calvary could not pass with their horses.

On the other hand, banu qurayda was within the city from the side, colluding with enemies to attack the muslims from the other side...

Allah describes this situation as one of extreme fear.

They massed against you from above and below; your eyes rolled [with fear], your hearts rose into your throats, and you thought [ill] thoughts of God. There the believers were sorely tested and deeply shaken: (Surah azhaab: 10-11)

The quraish camped outside medina, it was only a matter of time that the muslims will run out of food supplies and have to surrender... Allah sent winds that destroyed the camp of the tribes that they had no choice but to abandon the mission.

Six months later,
The prophet has a dream that they were performing the rites of umrah peacefully..
He tells his companions and they head towards mecca to perform umrah with no weapons...

Imagine this, a few months ago, these guys were just coming to destroy you. Now you are going straight into the lion's den
You are going there with no weapons
Just the small knife used to sacrifice the animal.
No shields, no swords.. nothing
The quraish got wind of this and sent khalid bin waleed with about 200 horsemen to intercept them.
The prophet heard of this and changed course. Either way, they got to hudaybiya..
Uthman (RA) was sent to the quraish
He was held back, rumour begins to spread that he has been killed...
The prophet hears this, he is enraged. He gets the sahaba ready to fight. They make the oath under the tree. Remember these men had only a small knife to fight.. Now these men are enraged and primed for war.
So they have gone through extreme emotions,
Extreme fear, extreme anger, extreme courage..


Eventually, they find out that uthman was not killed.. the peace treaty, was agreed by the messenger which seemed to go against the muslims.

Imagine the muslims just spent weeks walking from Medina to Mecca, without doing what they were intended to do.

Imagine, you are going to hajj after all the preparation and immediately, you get to Mecca, you are told to turn back.

Not only that, the messenger agreed to what seemed like demeaning conditions to the muslims.

Now you have a mob scenario... lots of angry, frustrated young men, the crowd is in a frenzy.. imagine you shoot into the air, and a crowd begins to run in all directions, If you scream stop!!! are they likely to stop??

Unlikely

The Messenger asks the crowd to remove their ihram, and there is no response.. He goes into his tent and his wife essentially tells him to lead by example ..

As he does this, the crowd follows him....

Allah calls this hudaybiya: clear evident victory...
What does Allah mean by this??

The primary victory at hudaybiya was of the hearts, inspite of the extreme levels of anger and frustration that was felt, they still followed the instruction of the messenger.

Inspite, of the extreme levels of vulnerability, they still took an oath to stand and fight with him.

The real victory was that of the heart.

Today, muslim face similar frustrations around the world. Our real victory comes by obeying Allah and his Messenger regardless of how angry, we may feel about the conditions of the muslims....

Secondarily, the treaty eventually led to the capture of Mecca..

However, capture of land in the quran is usually seen as a lesser victory.. The real victory is of the hearts..

That is the challenge for muslims today. Discipline to follow Allah's instructions inspite of our emotions..

tbaba1234: Did you know:

Over 1400 years and not one fabricated hadith has been ascribed to a women! No women has ever made up a lie regarding the prophet PBUH, SubhanAllah, amazing.

That's awesome.

mentioned by Shiekh Yawar Baig

tbaba1234:

You mean the hadith that is considered a forgery by Islamic scholars but ofcourse you would not know that. You people just peddle nonsense.

This is about the hadith:

"...this Isnad (chain of reporters) is not narrated on authority of Mujalid but by Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj and they all (other reporters in the chain) accuse Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj of forging it." (Ibn 'Adiyy, Al-Kamal, Vol. 6, p. 145)

TheBigUrban2:



It is considered a forgery by SOME scholars, not all.


Secondly, I did open a thread long time ago about Asma Bint Marwan. lol....dont take me for the average islamophobe.

tbaba1234:

You mean the hadith that is considered a forgery by Islamic scholars but ofcourse you would not know that. You people just peddle nonsense.

This is about the hadith:

"...this Isnad (chain of reporters) is not narrated on authority of Mujalid but by Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj and they all (other reporters in the chain) accuse Muhammad Ibn Al-Hajjaj of forging it." (Ibn 'Adiyy, Al-Kamal, Vol. 6, p. 145)

Empiree:
so when did you become doctor of hadith?
i thought you are Atheist, isn't ?

TheBigUrban2:

It is considered a forgery by SOME scholars, not all.

tbaba1234:

Scholar, reference, reason... Mr hadith scholar

I gave you a reason and reference why it is considered a forgery.

Who is 'some'?? What reason did 'some' give??

Hadith study is a science.

TheBigUrban2:


Hadith study is not a science. Please, stop the lies.



Secondly, if the story of Asma Bint Marwan is false, why is then practised in majority of the muslim world where insulting the prophet will get you either executed or jailed for a long time?

Thirdly, if the story, which is attributed to Ibn Ishaq is false, then how much of what we know of Muhammad is true? Remember that Ibn Ishaq has his own biography on the prophet? Note he is one of the earliest sources on the history of the prophet.

tbaba1234:

A little bit of education, for once, just read.

Narrations are grouped into

Sound, good, weak and fabricated.

This is based on a number of factors.

I. The chain of narrators: is it a weak chain or a strong chai

Ii. Did they meet? Can this be confirmed

Ii. Are they reliable?

Iv. Is it consistent?

Etc

A biography of each reporter is developed.

A forged hadith is a hadith whose text goes against the established norms of the Prophet's sayings, or its reporters include a liar. Fabricated hadith are also recognized by external evidence related to a discrepancy found in the dates or times of a particular incident.

It is not about which book, it is found. It is a detailed study on the individual narration.

Ibn ishaq narrations have to be individually tested for authenticity. You have to show evidence of strength.

Read about the science of hadith. You are a wikipedia fan, I am sure you will find something there.

TheBigUrban2:

#Schooled by Tbaba.




I wont argue too much on this. There is a limit to my knowledge on the hadith

Empiree:
Now you begining to backslide but before this you are arrogantly would be Islamic "scholar" while pretending to be Atheist. Agreeing with him or not is not important. What's important is you bowed . Anyway, i dropped a note here for you on "Islamic economy" you whining over. https://www.nairaland.com/1829650/how-muslims-partly-responsible-palestine#25892575

TheBigUrban2:




I cant know everything about islam. Not even your Mullahs/Imams know everything.

I didnt want to argue with Tbaba because the info about Ibn Ishaq work and authenticity is not clear. We would both be arguing subjective conjecture

Empiree:
Story story. You bow Thats what matters

TheBigUrban2:


It is the sign of an honest and intelligent man......respects when he has reached his limits

Sahih Muslim Book 004, Hadith Number 0781.

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered the mosque and a person also entered therein and offered prayer, and then came and paid salutation to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) returned his salutation and said: Go back and pray, for you have not offered the prayer. He again prayed as he had prayed before, and came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and saluted him. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) returned the salutation and said: Go back and say prayer, for you have not offered the prayer. This (act of repeating the prayer) was done three times. Upon this the person said: By Him Who hast sent you with Truth, whatever better I can do than this, please teach me.

He (the Holy Prophet) said: When you get up to pray, recite takbir, and then recite whatever you conveniently can from the Qur'an, then bow down and remain quietly in that position, then raise yourself and stand erect; then prostrate yourself and remain quietly in that attitude; then raise yourself and sit quietly; and do that throughout all your prayers.

Sahih Muslim, Book : 4
Number 0908:

Abu Qatada reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) led us in prayer and recited in the first two rak'ahs of the noon and afternoon prayers Surat al-Fitiha and two (other) surahs. And he would sometimes recite loud enough for us the verses. He would prolong the first rak'ah more than the second. And he acted similarly in the morning prayer.

Sahih Muslim
Book 4, Number 0769:

Suhail reported on the authority of his father that Abu Huraira used to recite takbir on all occasions of rising and bending (in prayer) and narrated that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to do like that.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 1, Book 8, Number 374 :

Narrated by Abu Hazim Sahl bin Sa'd was asked about the (Prophet's) pulpit as to what thing it was made of? Sahl replied: "None remains alive amongst the people, who knows about it better than I. It was made of tamarisk (wood) of the forest. So and so, the slave of so and so prepared it for Allah's Apostle . When it was constructed and place (in the Mosque), Allah's Apostle stood on it facing the Qibla and said 'Allahu Akbar', and the people stood behind him (and led the people in prayer). He recited and bowed and the people bowed behind him. Then he raised his head and stepped back, got down and prostrated on the ground and then he again ascended the pulpit, recited, bowed, raised his head and stepped back, got down and prostrate on the ground. So, this is what I know about the pulpit.

usermane:

I leave you with 5 questions regarding hadith.

1. Why do hadith books remain largely absent till 200+ years after the Prophet?

3. Why did Abubakr & Umar burn hadith writtings and they as well as the Prophet forbade spreading hadith?

2. Is it a coincidence that non of the compilers of the six main sunni hadith book is an arab or bedouin?

4. How come Abu Huraira who embraced Islam less than 2 years before Prophet 's death reported 5000+ ahadith which is double the total record of ahadith reported by Aisha, Abu Bakr, Umar and Ali.

5. You claim to reject hadith that contradict Qur'an. If such position is credible, how do you treat an hadith that prescribe or prohibit what the Qur'an is silent on, like Tarawih or Music? How do you verify the authenticity of such hadith?

usermane: SALAT
Personally, i perform mine as the mainstream

---

do with variations though but i don't agree that other than that, any other interpretation of salat is wrong. Therefore, i believe that

You see @ underlined, it seems you beefing in cycle. So you pray as mainstream pray whatever your variations are, can only mean one thing "you pray as you see us pray". It's mandatory to follow sunnah of the messanger in this regard. He actually practicalized this. Companions in his time saw him pray. Full Stop

1. There are no fixed numbers of rakas.
Prayer times, http://www.guidedones.com/metapage/salat/salat_chp2a.htm

2. Recitation language doesn't matter.
Answer:
As Muslims, we are blessed that our holy book has been maintained in its original language. Most other religions have only translations of their holy books, whereas we have the original text of our holy book in its original unadulterated language. This protects us from being deceived by false translations and allows us all to refer back to the Qur’an to find out its original wording and meaning. Therefore, as Muslims, it is highly reocmmended and perhaps a responsibility to learn sufficient Arabic in order to understand the Qur’an, or at least what part of it we recite it in our daily prayers.

The logic is that the wording of the Qur’an and the rest of the remembrance of God that we recite in prayer cannot be translated into another language without losing its full meaning, its beautiful eloquence and its perfect nature. When we recite the Arabic words of the Qur’an, we are reciting the verbatim word of God. A translation would always be the words of a human being and limited by the scope of that human being’s understanding, and this is a poor subsitute for the Divine Word.

It is recommended to teach Islam in the language of the local people, so they can understand the concepts of Islamic beliefs. There is also no problem with speaking to God in one’s own language when asking for our needs or supplicating.

However, when it comes to Salat, we must stick to the Arabic as per the reasons above, and it is the responsibility of every Muslim to learn at least basic Arabic, just as many professionals nowadays learn English and are proficient in it for the purposes of learning and teaching.

It should however be noted that in the Qunut (supplication with open hands) of our prayer, we can supplicate in any language we wish.
Answered by: Dr Ali Alsamail
Certified by: Sheikh Mansour Leghaei

3. There is no extra reward in performing it singly or in multiples.
Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, "A man's Salat in congregation is twenty-five times more rewarding than his Salat at home or in his shop, and that is because when he performs his Wudu' properly and proceeds towards the mosque with the purpose of performing Salat in congregation, he does not take a step without being raised a degree (in rank) for it and having a sin remitted for it, till he enters the mosque. When he is performing Salat, the angels continue to invoke Blessings of Allah on him as long as he is in his place of worship in a state of Wudu'. They say: `O Allah! Have mercy on him! O Allah! Forgive him.' He is deemed to be engaged in Salat as long as he waits for it.''
[Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

Commentary: This Hadith tells us that Salat in congregation is far more in reward than Salat offered alone. In the preceding Hadith it has been held 27 times and in the present, 25 times more rewarding. The reason for this variation offered by some `Ulama' is that at first it was told to the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) 25 times and then it was increased to 27 and he communicated to his Companions what was revealed to him. Some other scholars have linked it with the form, spirit and concentration of the Salat. The more meticulous one is about its details, the greater will be the reward for it. Another difference of opinion in this respect is regarding the nature of Salat in congregation. How does one become eligible for higher reward? Does he become eligible for it by performing Salat in congregation anywhere, i.e., at home, in business premises, at an open place, in the desert etc., or in that congregation which gathers in a mosque? Some `Ulama' go with the first opinion while others agree with the second. Hafiz Ibn Hajar preferred the second view on the grounds that the words occuring in the text of this Hadith support this view.

Ibn Mas`ud (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: He who likes to meet Allah tomorrow (i.e., on the Day of Requital) as a Muslim, should take care and observe the Salat when the Adhan is announced for them. Allah has expounded to your Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) the ways of right guidance, and these (the prayers) are part of the right guidance. If you have to perform Salat in your houses, as this man who stays away (from the mosque) and performs Salat in his house, you will abandon the Sunnah (practice) of your Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), and the departure from the Sunnah of your Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) will lead you astray. I have seen the time when no one stayed behind except a well-known hypocrite. I also saw that a man was brought swaying (on account of weakness) between two men till he was set up in a row (in the mosque).
[Muslim].
https://www.nairaland.com/newpost?topic=1794405&post=25724154

4. Modest dress should be worn(Quran 7:31) Agree

usermane: Peace Empiree. The only message that Muhammad testified to recieve from God is the Qur'an(6:19). The onus is on you to prove the divinity of hadith books. As for me, i believe that as foretold in Quran 6:112-113, hadith were fabricated and ascribed to Muhammad. Thus, i don't see rejecting hadith in any way as disobedience to messenger.

usermane:
Sahih Muslim Book 004, Hadith Number 0781.

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) entered the mosque and a person also entered therein and offered prayer, and then came and paid salutation to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) returned his salutation and said: Go back and pray, for you have not offered the prayer. He again prayed as he had prayed before, and came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and saluted him. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) returned the salutation and said: Go back and say prayer, for you have not offered the prayer. This (act of repeating the prayer) was done three times. Upon this the person said: By Him Who hast sent you with Truth, whatever better I can do than this, please teach me.
He (the Holy Prophet) said: When you get up to pray, recite takbir, and then recite whatever you conveniently can from the Qur'an, then bow down and remain quietly in that position, then raise yourself and stand erect; then prostrate yourself and remain quietly in that attitude; then raise yourself and sit quietly; and do that throughout all your prayers.

A man is taught to recite not necessarily Chapter 1 but whatever he can of the Quran. Also note that this is one of the rare salat that attempt to present salat act sequentially, but contrary to common muslim practice, no recitation but silence is observed on bowing, prostration or sitting. And Chapter 1 may not even be obligatory afterall.

usermane:
2. Is it a coincidence that non of the compilers of the six main sunni hadith book is an arab or bedouin?