adeoladrg:

What about when you have an eye surgery? Organ transplant? Would you allow a Nigerian medical doctor perform magic on you? Op pls answer!


My point is pls strike to improve your practice! Not too stop others from improving their practice! We are tired of going to India.

pls don't quote eye surgery its as common as mosquitoes in Nigeria, as for organ transplant i don't believe you understand the logistics that follow it( there is a reason that it is not common here in Nigeria) so leave it at that.

recently delsuth performed their first kidney transplant and patient/donor are still alive.

adeoladrg:

I don't mind if we're are not giving the title consultant. For the reason that, a postgraduate course doesn't make you a consultant in the US doesn't apply to Africa. Here, you need to go through a postgraduate college to become one. That said, whatever process it takes, the roles are the same everywhere. To hell with the title!!!

medical post graduate colleges award fellowships not consultancy status, you can take the title on appointment by the govt or setting up of your own private practice.

this does not however stop medical officers from running their own clinics as am sure it doesn't stop pharmacist from owning pharmacies with or without a fellowship.

armadeo:


pls don't quote eye surgery its as common as mosquitoes in Nigeria, as for organ transplant i don't believe you understand the logistics that follow it( there is a reason that it is not common here in Nigeria) so leave it at that.

recently delsuth performed their first kidney transplant and patient/donor are still alive.

work.chron.com/clinical-nurse-
consultant-13912.html

www.prospects.ac.uk/
hospital_pharmacist_salary.htm

www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/
pharmacy/pharmacist/hospital-pharmacist/

Some experienced hospital pharmacists working
in advanced roles are able to meet the criteria
needed to be recognised as consultant
pharmacists.

drered: Period? Who made you author and finisher? Kindly swerve..

denial and anger in a single step, you are getting there.

armadeo:



denial and anger in a single step, you are getting there.

Ok sis..

Kudos to the doctors and other enlightened people in the house who know the role doctors have played in their lives from birth till now.Keep up the good work u are doing trying to enlighten the general public.

GentleMimi: Sai! Patient's perspective indeed.
I weep for this country. I've followed this strike ish for quite some time,even had a debate with some colleagues.
I read an article online abt the requests of the doctors. Nobody is disputing it. They want increase in hazard allowance to N100,000 per month,and some other things too. That is fine by us. But for NMA to boldly come out,stating it will not condone ''blackmail'' by health workers is so annoying. How does the title of ''Consultant'' result to blackmail? Is it something that has never been done before? Is it strange in other countries? Why are the doctors hell bent on being an obstacle to the progress of other health workers?
Now,back to the issue of consultant,let it be known that there are conditions attatched to the title. Medical scientists,pharmacists,nurses,physiotherapists attain educational level of Phd in their profession.
For example,a medical scientist specializes in haematology in masters and Phd level,obtains his fellows and satisfies all requirements by the MLSCN council. Why should such a fellow with vast knowledge in haematology not be allowed to consult with the patient and the patient's doctor on matters relating to haematological matters? It irks when i read some comments here.
In terms of salary,lets have a rethink. For example,as an intern,a scientist earns N120K, a doctor/house officer earns N170K-N180. Now JOHESU requests for an increase,relative to CONMESS scale....N150/160k. Why NMA wan come get HBP on top the matter? All JOHESU is asking for is a relative increase. Peeps who are shouting abt job the rigors of the medical duty should not undermine what other health workers go through. Being on call in haematology laboratory in a teaching hospital is like being on a rollercoaster!
It is the same time too. So what is wrong abt JOHESU requesting for shift duty/call duty allowance and other special allowance.
As an intern,hazard allowance was a mere N10k. What d hell! We handle body fluids too and get exposed to all the vile things running amok.
Those who want privatization of other health sectors are living in a fool's paradise. Who can afford it? Services in the health sector is highly subsidized,but still expensive for certain peeps.
Privatization will only make things worse.
And for the skipping of a thing,why are doctors against skipping when they are doing it? They skip from 10 to 12,we want a skip from 9 to 11. Why dem wan get headache? Lol! *SMH*
finally,on the issue of CMD,i will state here boldly that i have no qualms with doctors being the CMDs. All we ask for is professional courtsey.

very sound and objective write up .Doctors own the patient and nobody want to take your patient away from you we only want to reach the zenith of our respective fields it doesnt stop any doctor from performing his or her duties at all . A house officer pay is d same thing with a PMLS (atleast u must ve worked for 10 years to get to that salary level o! ) while interns get N112 ,546 in d eastern state where i reside so its really poor .Delivering quality healthcare to patients is a focal point in all medical professions and lets not forget anybody can be a patient nobody is excluded not even the doctors who own the patient so i dont how hindering the progress and welfare of other medical professionals will improve the quality of healthcare in this our nation.

Samgreguc:
The first definition defines the consultant Pharmacist and others.
.
If Consultant Pharmacist had being in existence earlier just like the Consultant Physician then, the dictionary will have said something of such.
.
Besides, did you see the word expert there(the full definition)? The Pharmacists are drug experts so, dont dat also qualifies him too?
.
.
The reason why the dictionary refuse putting the Physician in their full definition is because the Consultant Physician doesn't fully define Consultant but, rather it defines a Consultant in a particular field of Medicine

The first definition defines consultant anything including consultant pharmacist ,nurses

The second one focused on hospital settings and rightly define it as medical doctor of highest rank
This is an updated dictionary , and know that the term consultant pharmacist has been on for a while, its not new, but its not used for hospital based pharmacist anywhere, its for institutition based pharmacist, who served elderly home,industries etc. And this rightly fit in to the first definition

rolex29: very sound and objective write up .Doctors own the patient and nobody want to take your patient away from you we only want to reach the zenith of our respective fields it doesnt stop any doctor from performing his or her duties at all . A house officer pay is d same thing with a PMLS (atleast u must ve worked for 10 years to get to that salary level o! ) while interns get N112 ,546 in d eastern state where i reside so its really poor .Delivering quality healthcare to patients is a focal point in all medical professions and lets not forget anybody can be a patient nobody is excluded not even the doctors who own the patient so i dont how hindering the progress and welfare of other medical professionals will improve the quality of healthcare in this our nation.

Again nobody stops you from getting an Msc or Phd in your respective field. no one is against your progress or welfare.

the Ho/Pmls salary issue is based on economics (demand and supply)

adeoladrg:

work.chron.com/clinical-nurse-
consultant-13912.html

www.prospects.ac.uk/
hospital_pharmacist_salary.htm

www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/
pharmacy/pharmacist/hospital-pharmacist/

Some experienced hospital pharmacists working
in advanced roles are able to meet the criteria
needed to be recognised as consultant
pharmacists.

What are the criteria and can u cite any example of such working within the Walls of hospital and not in instituition as we all know. The link above doesn't specify such, may be u do a justice to the argument by posting a screenshot of it

armadeo:


pls don't quote eye surgery its as common as mosquitoes in Nigeria, as for organ transplant i don't believe you understand the logistics that follow it( there is a reason that it is not common here in Nigeria) so leave it at that.

recently delsuth performed their first kidney transplant and patient/donor are still alive.

If you, or les say your cousin (God forbid) has a kidney or liver transplant to do, will you allow your colleagues perform magic on him or send him abroad?

GentleMimi:
Lol. You are giving silly examples which i aim to squash in totality.
Impress u? What do i hope to gain? A seven-figure salary? We are trashing out a matter based on the lame example u gave.
.....''where a lab work suggests a dignosis''...? Really? Will the scientist go ahead to carry out any test without an agreement with a doctor colleague? For every form,there is an indication for differential prognosis/clinical detail,along side recommended lab tests. If u get a wrong diagnosis,it means u made a wrong prognosis,simple. Wetin concern lab with MP if it was never requested for?
Yeah,u have an ''idea'' abt ur patient's condition. That is what i call ''trial and error''. You keep getting ''ideas'' till the scientist tells u ''yes'' or ''no.
As for my clinical knowldge,i'll blow ur mind away if i attempt it even. I'll just be ''gentle''.
Nobody is an island. Everyday we learn.

my brother I don't like arguing with someone who DELIBERATELY decides to MISS MY POINT...
look as a doctor, I don't rely on the lab work for my diagnoses. I already have one before I send for CONFIRMATORY lab work.
if I am in a rural area with out a lab or radiological center,I can go ahead and treat my patients based on clinical findings.
if you can't understand this then I can't help you.i dont have the time to draw pictures for you.no need going round and round in circles.

Samgreguc:
bros ehh, talk true say u no go need the lab result to know whether na pre or post.

.........lab scientist........ itching in a patient with jaundice is most likely post hepatic. I don't need your bilurubin levels to distinguish......its not magic.its just my training.
if I don't see the bilirubin levels expected in post hepatic jaundice, then I will query your result.
dont make comments when you shouldn't.

adeoladrg:

If you, or les say your cousin (God forbid) has a kidney or liver transplant to do, will you allow your colleagues perform magic on him or send him abroad?

we have been doing successful kidney transplants in this country.should I furnish links??

phantom: we have been doing successful kidney transplants in this country.should I furnish links??

Answer the question! Would you have him transplant his organ in Nigeria or go abroad! Yes? No?

adeoladrg:

Answer the question! Would you have him transplant his organ in Nigeria or go abroad! Yes? No?

why would I fly him out when it can be done here. of course I would do it here

adeoladrg:

Answer the question! Would you have him transplant his organ in Nigeria or go abroad! Yes? No?

Garki Hospital Completes Three Kidney Transplants

Garki Hospital Performs First Heart Surgery Says it’s proof PPP is working

There are many more Nigerian hospitals across the country doing similar surgeries.

The NMA strike will enter its second phase: Private Hospitals will join in.

It is a necessary struggle incumbent on the medical profession in keeping with the oaths that all doctors swore to:

I will maintain by all the means in my power, the honour and the noble traditions of the medical profession

adeoladrg:

Admit that they make mistakes that kill patients! Mistakes that would have been avoided if we had an all-inclusive system with experts of pharmacist consultants and nurse consultants! Just admit!

Even in those places that have all-inclusive systems, they also make mistakes. You guys always point to the US. Was it not in the US that our own dear Prof Dora Akunyili was misdiagnosed? A misdiagnosis that led to her death eventually.

People should call a spade by its name. Everytime a patient dies, the doctor is blamed. People forget that there are many many factors that come into play in a patient's death.
I have seen where doctors practically beg patients to take their drugs and patients refuse; resorting to whatever it is that they want to do. Then months or years later, they return to the doctor and expect d doctor to perform a miracle.

I have seen where doctors advise patients on what to avoid and eschew. But they totally ignore such advice and when d consequences set in, doctors are expected to do miracles.

I have witnessed where a woman was on admission in a teaching hospital and she was on medications. And hidden under her bed was a bottle of herbal medications which she takes regularly at the expense of d drugs prescribed by the doctor.

Patients will present at consulting rooms with symptoms they have been noticing for years and have absolutely done nothing about. You will ask a patient when he first started noticing a symptom and he will tell u 6 months, or 1 year or 3 years. And u will ask d person what he has been doing about it and he will tell u that he has been managing. Then when d illness has become very serious and there is little d doctor can do, d doctor is expected to perform a miracle and bring a dead man back to life.

Alas, the average Nigerian never visits a hospital until it is obvious to him that he can no longer "manage" his illness. At that point, d doctor is looked up to to perform a miracle.

Stop blaming doctors for patients' deaths. There are so many factors that determine if a patient will die. Doctors' mistake is just a small fraction of it. Mistake in nursing care is also part of it. Because I know of a particular ward in a certain popular teaching hospital in the southeast where the matrons and d nurses are lackadaisical about their jobs. Infact, when patients are "mistakenly" admitted into that ward, it takes d grace of God and d diligence of d doctor (in practically forcing these nurses to do their job) to keep this patient alive. People die everyday in dat particular ward because of d negligence of d nurses.

Mistakes in lab reports also contribute. I know of a certain teaching hospital in the south east where d lab scientists have a routine for reporting lab results. If they decide that in a particular week, they will report neutrophilia for all CBC tests, u will see dat all d lab tests coming out of d lab dat week will be neutrophilia. If they decide it will be eosinophilia, all the lab results coming out of d lab dat week will be eosinophilia..

So stop blaming d doctor unnecessarily for patients' death because 40% of the time patients cause their death by non-adherence to sound medical advice

phantom: .........lab scientist........ itching in a patient with jaundice is most likely post hepatic. I don't need your bilurubin levels to distinguish......its not magic.its just my training.
if I don't see the bilirubin levels expected in post hepatic jaundice, then I will query your result.
dont make comments when you shouldn't.

Intrahepatic Cholestasis of pregnancy presents with icterus and intense pruritus. So there is need for the bilirubin level both conjugated and unconjugated, serum alanine and aspartate , and all the works.
Don't start doing trial and error because you think you can do it alone or to assert your authority.

adeoladrg:

If you, or les say your cousin (God forbid) has a kidney or liver transplant to do, will you allow your colleagues perform magic on him or send him abroad?

Its not magic.

Yes yes and yes. Wetin dey for sokoto dey for shokoto.

Yikes! All these wannabes, please what is prognosis? I think the problem is most of these Johesuites don't even understand the terms they are using, if they did then there won't be any fight really.

Truly speaking, u are an educated man, but an educated illiterate. Olofo!

sakaguchi: The issue of a consultant has being overflogged isn't it? What will a consultant nurse do? What the hell is a consultant pharmacist? The doctors who are consultants specialise in a particular field of medicine and specialize holistically in it. Consultant urologist, consultant cardiologist, consultant nephrologist is more like it.
The difference between a consultant pharmacist and a pharmacist is clearly non-existent.
Even a novice like me knows that there must be a difference between a doctor (medical officer) and a cardiologist.

Please! I think government should call JOHESU, NMA to a round table. NMA need to shelf that ego that it can't sit together with JOHESU as it as become apparent that they are relevant stake holders.

The truth is, no matter what NMA or JOHESU says, this whole brouhaha is all politics. Nigerian doctors are underpaid even if we all hate their greed. Same thing too with nurses. To maintain parity, relativity must be enshrined. This is what I think is more important. Government should make that sit of CMD less attractive. For instance, let anybody who is a CMD will have no improve package whatsoever. If you are a doctor before being appointed CMD , your pay package will remain the same. Then anybody whatsoever can vie for CMD as I seriously think that post of CMD is not the sole right of doctors. They should all strife for improve pay package and the doctors must earn higher than the nurses and pharmacists as this is how it is universally. Pharmacists earn lots of money outside the hospital. Inside the hospital, their remuneration must be lower than doctors own. Then FG should make JOHESU illegal. How can all unions in a setting gang up to face just one.

Patients are dying because of needless politics.
This to me is a patient's perspective.

Morotov1: Intrahepatic Cholestasis of pregnancy presents with icterus and intense pruritus. So there is need for the bilirubin level both conjugated and unconjugated, serum alanine and aspartate , and all the works.
Don't start doing trial and error because you think you can do it alone or to assert your authority.

......
oga the person in my illustration is male.
secondly it presents mainly with pruritis.jaundice is uncommon.
of course there is a need for all those tests you mentioned.
but my point is that if a pregnant lady presents to me with intense itching and NO jaundice after 25wks,then ICP is my likely diagnosis which is made first ,THEN I SEND HER FOR LABWORK TO CONFIRM MY DIAGNOSIS.
so even before lab work,I have a working diagnosis.

Royver:

I am currently in a seminar now where we are discussing purchasing a Genexpert machine for use in the easy diagnosis of tuberculosis. It cost N5.2million to purchase. With this machine it will be easy to specifically diagnose tuberculosis no matter how small the sample is, and this will be of immense benefit in people living with HIV/AIDS especially in a country like ours.
This is a machine that can significantly impact on the health care system among patients in Nigeria. And yet we have only two of these machines in the whole south east. And yet our government would rather pay certain political persons N16million per ?month than buy this device for the populace of Nigeria.

Do you know why they travel abroad? Because they know the true state of our hospitals, our archaiec equipment and outdated machines. But they do nothing about it , instead playing politics and keeping the health sector in chaos for their own greedy gain.

Our doctors are not lacking in knowledge. Our heads are bursting with the knowledge we obtained through 7-8 years of medical school. If we don't do kidney transplants its because we don't have the equipment to do so. We have proved we are capable in doing the complicated surgeries they all rush to India to do, we have proved it and published it in the papers over and over again. its just for them to provide us with equipment.

That's incredible. That machine has made great impact in management of TB patients.

As for our government, 'am tired of them. Private companies have taken over every aspect of health care. Pathcare laboratory has built their outlet near almost every big Government hospital.

Samgreguc:
yea, that same fake plls the Physician prescribes.

Do doctors know its fake isnt it pharmacist job to make original yall busy embezzling money

All I can say is get ready for a longer strike than that of ASUU...yeye de smell...

Blame your government, not your doctors. In civilzed countries, it's the government that owes you good health.

@ phantom,my sister..
Is your explanation so bogus that even you cannot make yourself understood? You sound like a quack in the process of trying to come across as an ''independent'' worker.
Oh you do obtain diagnosis by physical examination only? Interesting. Or u are subjected to mild cases only,while the top guns handle more challanging cases. What the hell has this discussion got to do with rural hspt? We are talking of an average hospital,dude. Even if u find urself in a rural area,certain cases will require u to refer ur patient to the city for proper investigations. Rural hospitals have limits,so stop giving me lousy and lame examples.
You are the one running round in circles in an attempt to seem effective. Prior to sending ur patient out for investigations,what you have made is simply a guess work. If u get called up tomorrow,can u defend your guess work boldly?
It is peeps like u that are giving ur fellow doctors a bad name. A doc thinks he he can diagnose based on symptoms and interrogation only. Lol.
The Ebola virus has quite similar symptoms to acute malaria. I guess u'll give ur patient antimalaria to deal with such a case,right? Loool! Quackery village dokinto.

phantom: they want to earn specialist allowance WITHOUT the responsibility that comes with it..... .

i have asked them to furnish us with links showing us the qualifications needed for 'consultancy' in any of the allied health professions AND where these 'consultants' are based.. hospital or non-hospital based??

they have not done this but prefer emotions and sentiments

When you can't argue with facts of course you resort to name calling and emotional outburst. That's johesu for you. Joint haters union.

malbruno: my dear, u have Said it all, just an addition d consultants are meant to specialize in a particular area of study like consultant gyenocologist, consultant urologist etc. Their role differ, so it will be for Consultant chem pathologist, consultant haematologist consultant pharmacist when they have got the requisit qualification. How is it affecting other consultants who shld face their own specialty. what kind egocentric set of human beings

CHEMICAL PATHOLOGISTS and HAEMATOLOGISTS are MEDICAL DOCTORS not LAB SCIENTISTS

@Op you clearly are one of US.

Good write up, conqour with most of your points but I differ as follows;

NON DOCTOR CONSULTANT
NMA should not be against this, allow them to become CONSULTANTS but each one of them MUST have JOB DESCRICTION so that a NURSE CONSULTANT can not delay or stop a medical doctor's line of management even if he is a HOUSE OFFICER, she can only advice where necessary. Same should apply to other professionals.
NMA should ensure that their regulatory bodies come up with criteria that is internationally acceptable before such appointments can be effected, advanced academic qualifications and new skills rather than years of service should be the yard stick.

GentleMimi: @ phantom,my sister..
Is your explanation so bogus that even you cannot make yourself understood? You sound like a quack in the process of trying to come across as an ''independent'' worker.
Oh you do obtain diagnosis by physical examination only? Interesting. Or u are subjected to mild cases only,while the top guns handle more challanging cases. What the hell has this discussion got to do with rural hspt? We are talking of an average hospital,dude. Even if u find urself in a rural area,certain cases will require u to refer ur patient to the city for proper investigations. Rural hospitals have limits,so stop giving me lousy and lame examples.
You are the one running round in circles in an attempt to seem effective. Prior to sending ur patient out for investigations,what you have made is simply a guess work. If u get called up tomorrow,can u defend your guess work boldly?
It is peeps like u that are giving ur fellow doctors a bad name. A doc thinks he he can diagnose based on symptoms and interrogation only. Lol.
The Ebola virus has quite similar symptoms to acute malaria. I guess u'll give ur patient antimalaria to deal with such a case,right? Loool! Quackery village dokinto.

I give up. trying to make you see my point is akin to fetching water with a basket.
best regards.