Samgreguc:
I spoke on an average base bro because, I doubt what the he said about the Pharmacist.
.
Though, dont forget no one is above mistake. . . So, dont vouch dat much.

phantom: a man walks into my clinic and complains of generalized itching and on examination I found him to be jaundiced and maybe with an enlarged liver.
I don't need any bloody lab work to tell me the dude has obstructive jaundice.
if I do the lab work and it says malaria, I will query the lab work because what I saw clinically supports obstructive jaundice.
the lab scientists are claiming they diagnose. if that was true I the doctor would treat malaria and not obstructive jaundice SO IN EFFECT MY DEAR LAB SCIENTISTS,WHEN A DOCTOR REQUESTS FOR LAB WORK,HE ALREADY KNOWS WHAT RESULT HES EXPECTING. YOU DO NOT DIAGNOSE FOR US RATHER YOU CONFIRM OUR DIAGNOSES. THAT IS WHY WE CAN QUERY YOUR RESULTS.

GentleMimi:
If he already knows what he is expecting,why proceed with the request? If u query a lab result showing malaria,it indicates u do not really know what u are doing. Don't u know many Nigerians are asymptomatic parasite carriers? Using QBC to investigate for MP,u'll find it in virtually 70% of Nigerians,with only half being sypmtomatic.
Sending a request for Serum bilirubin to investigate jaundice will not only tell u if it is a jaundiced patient,but will also point out if its hepatic,prehapatic or post hepatic. Now,why the hell will u get a malaria test result when u requested for jaundice test(SB,urobilinogen)? It only means u got confused at a certain point.
Query indeed. You prolly work in a clinic that employed the services of technicians and SLTs whom u pay peanuts. That is when u can come out to tell us u can ''query'' a result.

centje:
I've wasted my time with a kid. Sorry for quoting you, my dear.

jpphilips:

I really didn't want to over flog this issue, let us be clear, the Doctors did not stop you from advancing your studies, I have read their press release over and over, they only asked you to drop the title "consultant" because you don't own the patient, it is clear!

Now, about my friend, neither the D.pharm nor the Patient was wrong, suppository for internal hemorrhoid is not a bad management but the doctor had the only cure!!

the D.pharm has tested the potency, professionalism and his understanding of drugs and landed on suppositories (ANUSOL) to be precise, but the surgeon's knife brought the desired result.

Unless you want to tell me that the advancement you desire will cover surgery and other courses, then you don't need consultancy to achieve that.

sainty2k3:

Sorry bros , but pks stop confusing people, a postgraduate training, that's residency in pharmacy makes u a fellow of the highly esteemed college and not necessarily the title consultant ,if u have any link to prove that is what makes a consultant pharmacist pls lemme know.

Now, what makes a consultant pharmacist . check the link below pls
www.cpe.pharmacy.ufl.edu/courses/consultant/

U can check out the screen munch but , the summary is that the west Africa college of pharmacistn doesn't confer such title on her fellows, the curriculum for a consultant pharmacist is in the link above with is also in that screen munch below


And their role is not within the hospital settings as u can see in the link above and
And also that of America society of consultant pharmacists--

https://www.ascp.com/articles/what-consultant-pharmacist

'A simple answer is that a consultant pharmacist is a pharmacist who is paid to provide expert advice on the use of medications by individuals or within institutions, or on the provision of pharmacy services to institutions.'

'Consultant Pharmacists are now practicing in a wide variety of other settings, including subacute care and assisted living facilities, psychiatric hospitals, hospice programs, and in home and community-based care -- wherever seniors reside. Consultant Pharmacists are defined by their common commitment to enhance the quality of care for all older persons through the appropriate use of medication and promotion of healthy aging'

Prior to this a moment the fellows of west Africa college of pharmacist are not after adding that title consultant cos of obvious reason, they know what the term consultant in hospital settings mean.
Postgraduate training broaden ur knowledge and improve patient care even within hospital settings. Must u claim a title that doesn't belong to you to do ur work

Samgreguc:
what do u think the word consult mean? To own?
Please, venture into research and the history of that word and when you are done endeavour to appologise to that word for calling it(consult) another thing.
.
.

The title “Consultant” in a hospital setting describes the relationship between the Specialist Medical Doctor and his patient. It will be a source of confusion if the title is applied to any other health worker who statutorily does not own patient. NMA therefore declares with unmitigated emphasis that if “non-doctor consultants” are appointed, it will lead to chaos and anarchy in the health sector. This should not happen.

Samgreguc:
what do u think the word consult mean? To own?
Please, venture into research and the history of that word and when you are done endeavour to appologise to that word for calling it(consult) another thing.
.
.

Samgreguc:
yea, and after going that far and passing the residency, becomes a fellow, u will still recieve same pay package as the normal B.pharm when its obvious ur input is rich and aids the patients alot.
.
Truth be told, our hospitals believe they are okey with the B.pharm.

jpphilips:

Mistake? kindly tell us his options in such a scenario

jpphilips:


NMA demand's



Concentrate on the bold part,

phantom: please don't be funny.I used malaria as an example of a situation where the lab work SUGGESTS ANOTHER DIAGNOSIS.stop grasping at straws.
look you don't impress me with your little clinical knowledge. what is obstructive jaundice? pre or post hepatic?
my point is my clinical diagnosis is CONFIRMED by the labs.if the lab work suggests another diagnosis, I query it. simple!
but if you think I have no idea what is wrong with my patient until I do the labs,YOU ARE DEAD WRONG! that is the beauty of medical training. our greatest gift is our training and our brains.

A 2009 report funded by the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality found that 28 percent of 583 diagnostic mistakes reported anonymously by doctors were life- threatening or had resulted in death or permanent disability. A
meta-analysis published last year in the journal BMJ Quality & Safety found that fatal diagnostic errors in U.S. intensive care units appear to equal the 40,500 deaths that result each year from breast cancer. And a new study of 190 errors at a VA hospital system in Texas found that many errors involved
common diseases such as pneumonia and urinary tract infections; 87 percent had the potential for “considerable to severe harm” including “inevitable death.”

sainty2k3:

That shouldn't be, those are things that can be fought for, and its legitimate . its not all about title

Misdiagnosis “happens all the time,” said David Newman-Toker, who studies diagnostic errors and helped organize the recent international conference. “This is an enormous problem, the hidden part of the iceberg of medical errors that dwarfs” other kinds of mistakes, said Newman-Toker, an associate professor of neurology and otolaryngology at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. Studies repeatedly have found that diagnostic errors, which are more common in primary-care settings, typically result from flawed ways of thinking, sometimes coupled with negligence, and not because a disease
is rare or exotic.

phantom: please don't be funny.I used malaria as an example of a situation where the lab work SUGGESTS ANOTHER DIAGNOSIS.stop grasping at straws.
look you don't impress me with your little clinical knowledge. what is obstructive jaundice? pre or post hepatic?
my point is my clinical diagnosis is CONFIRMED by the labs.if the lab work suggests another diagnosis, I query it. simple!
but if you think I have no idea what is wrong with my patient until I do the labs,YOU ARE DEAD WRONG! that is the beauty of medical training. our greatest gift is our training and our brains.

Samgreguc:
I agree with you but, why not give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar?

Samgreguc:
yea, and after going that far and passing the residency, becomes a fellow, u will still recieve same pay package as the normal B.pharm when its obvious ur input is rich and aids the patients alot.
.
Truth be told, our hospitals believe they are okey with the B.pharm.

Aids the pharmacist pocket you mean?

sainty2k3:

Well that depends on what u mean by 'what belong to Caesar' I term that better recognition and pay for this people who passed through residency training,not title.
But I know their very problem will start from their other pharmacist who didn't go through the training. #Well, just saying
And thanks for bringing up ur point so far without insult

jpphilips:

Aids the pharmacist pocket you mean?

adeoladrg:

You think this is a fight about owning the patient? You'll understand better when you lose a loved one to a doctor's mistake that could have been corrected by a pharmacist or nurse.

Samgreguc:
what am saying is that whoever worth the title should get it.
.
I can remember some lecturers penalizing students for calling them Mr instead of Dr(Ph. D) and I can remember some not reacting.

GentleMimi:
Young man,being a consultant does not mean ''ownership'' of a human being. It means being an expert in ur field of work,so as to be able to give advice and top notch contributions towards the improvement of services.
the posts have four key functions: expert practice (max. 50%); research, evaluation and service development; education, mentoring and overview of practice; professional leadership.

adeoladrg:

Oh cool, you must have also seen experienced pharmacist correct doctors on the use of drugs! Probably tell the doctor or a not-so-expensive drug to use for a particular condition, or device a better route of administration or an alternative therapy and lots more. We want more knowledge, we want more specialization! WE WANT TO UNDERGO RESIDENCY TRAINING FOR 6 YEARS? 7? 8? WHATEVER!

It adds to patient care! IT'S NOT ABOUT OWNING THE PATIENTS!

armadeo:


no it doesn't, yes i have seen pharmacist correct Drs no biggie particularly on dosage of drugs.

what do you mean by better route of administration its oral iv topical, the severity/type of the illness depends on the route of administration. Does a pharmacist need further training for that?

Alternative therapy you can all do that in your drug presentation, again any need for further studies, EVEN IF,
Mr pharmacist if you want to make changes as you claim go into research and get drugs cheaper, more effective with lower side effects for the benefit of the patient.

no one stops you from a Msc or Phd and be called Dr pharm, In an academic setting Yes, in a private setting Yes, in the hospital WE SAY YOU ARE NOT A CONSULTANT. PERIOD!!!!

phantom: look brother....if you want to import from the US do it well.if your consultancy entails a residency training,go ahead and do it.if it entails a masters and PhD,go ahead and do it.
the west African college of pharmacists has been in existence for years.HOW MANY OF YOUR SENIORS ARE FELLOWS?
you prefer to open pharmacies and sell drugs.
you, adeola when did you qualify as a pharmacist? have you considered a residency in pharmacy??

armadeo:


Except in the hospital setting ( you know what ownership means so don't pretend) which johesu has kept ignoring. pls links to evidence that shows these various consultants exist in places where best international practices are carried out. we are waiting.

jpphilips:

Simple question behooves simple answer, I may not be a health practitioner doesn't mean I left my common sense abroad.

Who does the prognosis and logs in the patients complain?
who tells the scientist which test to run to confirm his prognosis?
who writes the drug prescription and dosage that wakes the pharmacist from coma?
whose signature admits and discharges the patient?
who certifies a patient DEAD?

back to the issue again, who owns the patient??

chucs: Mr man its not every nurse that packs faeces. There is hierarchy and carder in nursing profession which is also found in other profession. U seem to be a patient that has vast knowledge in medical field but[b] found it difficult to acknowledge the existence of nurse consultants as seen all over the world.[/b] I find it difficult to understand why a professional will not be allowed to get to the peak of his/her career. The issue on ground is not about ownership of the patients but the a clear knowledge of what consultant stand for. According to wikipedia "a consultant is a professional who provides professional or expert advice in a particular area such as security(electronic or physical),management,accountancy,law,human resources,marketing(and public relations),finance,engineering or any of many other specialized fields"

GentleMimi:
Lol. Yet u claim to be a patient. Come out clean,boy!
Nobody ''owns'' any patient. Stop confusing yourself with that phrase. Very funny and naive.
Who does the diagnosis,to confirm the prognosis? Medical scientists.

Who handles patient care in the wards? Nurses.

Who handles therapy in patients with bone issues? Physiotherapists

A patient comes into the hospital with complaints of malaise,nausea,weakness and pain. There are more than ten disease conditions with the same set of symptoms. Automatically,he requests for MP/widal. It comes out negative. What next? If he is a god,let him now determine the cause of the patient's ailment with his ''prognosis''. If he is a god,let him take care of the patient when admitted.
I repeat,nobody owns the patient. It is a collective effort.