Mondisweets: do enlighten us all on how the OP was achieving that by saying achidie "lacks class" and claiming that she has a " tasteless class of performance."

This is someone who clearly has achieved nothing, insulting someone who is globally recognised

Perhaps you would do better to direct your question to the OP.

He is in the best position to give you an answer. That is assuming you still dont have an answer from reading his already meticulously explicit article.

Kay17:

What is gender to you? How do you define gender?

Are you asking a question or you are asking a question?

MrAnony1:
Please name one right that men have in Nigeria which women lack.

1. A right to abortion. Men are allowed full privacy rights, while women are denied the right to abort.

2. A woman lacks a corporate status in a marriage. The man assumed to speak for the union. Her identity dissolves in the marriage.

3. Labour laws in Nigeria are tailored to the needs of men. The legal obligations an employer has to the male employee do not exactly match those required for a woman.

4. The child girl is not fully guaranteed a right to education. Cultural regimes which indulge in early/child marriage are tolerated.

5. The woman doesn't have the right to free speech as a man. Her right is limited to cultural/moral/public considerations. And the typical post colonial African idea of a woman, is a housekeeper.

I will be back with more.

Amhappy:

Please go and read my posts again and stop accusing me of what you don't know. Which statement of mine supported feminism. No wonder you grabbed the post as if we have a personal battle. This is not a question of yes or No. I expressed myself that the long post shows a war between Adichie and whoever the writer was. That accusing Adichie of mocking Achebe is grave. I said i disagreed with the writer on one point which is that all communities in Igbo land treat women fairly. I stated that if my guess on Adichie community is correct then the writer should not wonder because her community is likely to breed the kinds of people the writer accused her of. And concluded that i dont understand feminism as its extreme but believes in fair treatment for all men. So pls stop quoting me out of context.

u still have no idea...smh

Kay17: Yes, African femininists know too little while the chauvinists are classy, tact, with sophisticated minds (a mild joke) and deeply knowledgeable. The chauvinist in question (the OP) believes Teju Cole is a better writer than Adichie such an insult!! How knowledgeable is that?!

To also believe that full integration with Caucasian races is what stimulates class is post colonial myopia. A Mr Johnson Syndrome. Friction between races is a cultural phenomenon way beyond the individual.

I'm about 70% sure now that you're a woman

damiso:

I like Adichie too.I bought Half Of a Yellow Sun at a such an exorbitant rate at one bookshop in Falomo back then because like you I like to appreciate Africans who are succesful.

As I said the write up had some valid points but the personal attacks and referring to 'class' just kinda spoilt it for me.In otherwords she feels she is 'classless' cos she has opinions that might not necessarily agree with her POV.

That said I just watched the full interview(thank you TV01 for the link) as I always just watched excerpts or heard quotes taken from it.


And so I might have to agree with you that sometimes our experiences shape our perceptions and her experience on not being made class monitor cannot be farther from mine.I think I was class captain (that's what we called it) about 3 times in primary school.I was lead debater in the Literary and Debating society often times was the lead debater (with a boy sometimes supporting) and never once had anyone tell me I could not be because I was a girl.I led tutorial sessions in University with guys joining if they felt it was a course I was stronger in.

That said my experiences should not speak for every Nigerian woman.

The only thing is I fail to see how saying 'I am a feminist' is going to be the key to achieving equality for real.Equality is subjective and like you and someone said I don't think there is any society where EVERYONE is truly equal.I touched on disability earlier if we want to say we want everyone to be equal how come we are not campaigning for the disabled?. Even in the north where we say the girl child is marginalised I think its a poverty issue.Most almajiris are males and this is poverty and lack of education at play.


She touched on too i though i think it starts from the family, my dad would never say"Go and make indomie for your brother" inshort my brother was the specialist indomie maker in our house ( I miss his indomie).Not saying I never cooked for him but that was cos I was cooking for everyone. I switched on the generator, washed my Dads car went to open the shop etc etc.Parents should try their best to raise children (both genders) who are considerate to others, play to their strengths, not generally feel they are better than others due gender, social status etc.I want my son to know how to cook because no skill is waste and as such he can feed himself if push comes to shove.So lets just try to treat others (a core christian principle) how we would want to be treated and the world might be a better place.

It's hard to disagree with you about the personal attacks. I feel personally that the author could have been more graceful but Chimamanda has been quite insolent herself toward the Nigerian populace and the African man in general so it is really hard to consider her unworthy of the abrasive remarks. Still I think he should have avoided references to her personal life even for the purposes of making sense of her stance.

About equality though... Man is not equal to woman or else they would both be man or woman. Things that are not the same should not be treated the same. The fact that in the absence of one, another might be substituted for uses that the other ordinarily serves does not make them the same. A woman can in some things be used as a man and vice versa but for all that, they have their different primary functions.

Children are better off raised to know these functions and fill them according to their gender. It is not right to make one into both. Everyone should be equipped to fill their primary roles. The secondary abilities we pick up should help us better fill our places in life.

damiso:

Ihedinobi why only my post naa I no too understand English o

To be honest I actually can get the sentiment of (not sentiment actually logic) preferring to hire men from a business angle BUT from the angle of someone who might be well suited to do a job despite being a woman I think doing that is a sort of punishment for motherhood which unfortunately falls on the woman as men dont give birth.

Yeah its a hassle but in that talent pool (mothers) are some very experienced well qualified people and immediately disqualifying them is a tad bit unfair.I extolled the virtues of my mums shop assistant who is actually very good at her job and if my mum had actually denied her employment in favour of a man based on the fact that 'she might get pregnant' she might have not been able to get such a hard working loyal employee that she has till date.

Lol. I love your posts and your reasoning is very accommodating for intellectual exercise.

I understand and agree with you. However, it really is a big deal to have a woman in a sensitive position in your business when marriage, pregnancy or kids could change affect her availability even for just a little while. It is important that women appreciate that. I don't think it is impossible to make the best of a woman's ability in a business and still not lose because of all the possibilities attached to her feminity but it would take a very talented manager to pull it off at a profit to everyone involved.

Therefore women should not consider employers' preference for men as an affront to their womanhood. I don't think that men should consider a preference for a female to serve as a caregiver an affront to their manhood either (although caregivers are not accorded adequate enough respect, in my own opinion.)

callmenow: It is an insult to compare
Ms Adichie and other 'Nigerian' women (even
the blessed Dr Iweala). She is hair, head and
shoulders above them all.

This will be someone's mother tomorrow. One day, one fool will go down on his knees and beg this one to marry him?! And no Iweala is still alive. But then again:

Gonzaga: I know for a fact that African
feminists qualify as the worst
globally—the least informed,
specifically. And I’m not very
surprised by this truth, given
that they try to copy a Western
ideology they know practically
nothing about.

Callmenow, this quote is particularly true about you.

pickabeau1: those climes, the cost is subsidised by the govt

YOur q goes back to the issue:Its not a woman problem but rather a human one

Can a woman who has no source of income aside her hubby afford to leave an abusive marriage or tell him to use contraception to avoid more kids

Can a woman who has no state support (benefits etc) afford to leave her job which pays the bills.. the kids are abandoned to do whatever

Good point. Still, it is tough to hire a woman when it is such an economic risk to do so. That is the point.

pickabeau1:

He hasnt made the difference

Someone can say there is no difference

Actually he has.

If you consider that feminism as a concept is merely about the well-being of the female folk, then it is not a bad concept and it can also be abused. If someone decides to go beyond looking out for women and starts pushing for female dominance at the expense of any other person's wellbeing, then they can hide under the umbrella of feminism and push an agenda that actually negates it. That is what abuse is.

That abuse is what he calls radical feminism.

ihedinobi2:
Good point. Still, it is tough to hire a woman when it is such an economic risk to do so. That is the point.

So whats the solution

ihedinobi2:
Actually he has.
If you consider that feminism as a concept is merely about the well-being of the female folk, then it is not a bad concept and it can also be abused. If someone decides to go beyond looking out for women and starts pushing for female dominance at the expense of any other person's wellbeing, then they can hide under the umbrella of feminism and push an agenda that actually negates it. That is what abuse is.
That abuse is what he calls radical feminism.

ok.. when i have a bit of time.. i will jawjaw with him

pickabeau1:

Do you have a link to the article on her dis on achebe...

So you rank Adichie ahead of women like Ngozi Okonjo, Funmi Ransome Kuti etc .. interesting

this is fangirlism to the core

Dat dude does not know the profile of Ngozi, funmi kuti, dora akunyili and the gallant Oby Ezekwesili (madam due process) else he won't be saying that Sh1T...

njokusboy:

Dat dude does not know the profile of Ngozi, funmi kuti, dora akunyili and the gallant Oby Ezekwesili (madam due process) else he won't be saying that Sh1T...

I am surprised that a nigerian woman ranks adichie ahead of a Minsiter of Finance and ex-World Bank Executive

But heck... that some ladies for u

freshdude2: It's definitely not cruelty to prefer hiring men but it could lead to other social and workplace issues if there's no balance. And like Gonzalo said, even in Finland, women are hired, sometimes, for the sake of diversity. Water tends to find it's own level and eventually natural selection just sort of happens. This is especially seen where Gonzaga claims that despite Finnish women's access to public funds to pursue worthwhile ventures, they don't particularly abound in furthering the Finnish or world economy.

Of course, it is neither cruel nor unfair. But it may be necessary to remind feminists of how it isn't unfair.

coogar:

of course - there are different kinds of terrorists too. radical terrorists & liberal ones. be deceiving yourself.

If his definition of feminism is correct then he's right, coogar. Do you think he's wrong?

njokusboy:

Dat dude does not know the profile of Ngozi, funmi kuti, dora akunyili and the gallant Oby Ezekwesili (madam due process) else he won't be saying that Sh1T...

I find it hard to comprehend that comment or the idea behind it.

ihedinobi2:

It's hard to disagree with you about the personal attacks. I feel personally that the author could have been more graceful but Chimamanda has been quite insolent herself toward the Nigerian populace and the African man in general so it is really hard to consider her unworthy of the abrasive remarks. Still I think he should have avoided references to her personal life even for the purposes of making sense of her stance.

About equality though... Man is not equal to woman or else they would both be man or woman. Things that are not the same should not be treated the same. The fact that in the absence of one, another might be substituted for uses that the other ordinarily serves does not make them the same. A woman can in some things be used as a man and vice versa but for all that, they have their different primary functions.

Children are better off raised to know these functions and fill them according to their gender. It is not right to make one into both. Everyone should be equipped to fill their primary roles. The secondary abilities we pick up should help us better fill our places in life.

Ihedinobi can I ask what these primary functions are?


Me teaching my son to cook is a skill that I want him to learn like swimming as if push comes to shove he can at least fix HIMSELF something to eat.My husband is a very good cook but I still do most of the cooking but if for some reason I am unable to I know the children will not eat MCdonalds everyday.

Me teaching my daughter to cook and not my son because it Is a girl or woman's 'primary function' is actually not being fair to him.He could eventually never WANT to cook but at least he would know HOW to . My daughter should learn how to fix a light bulb not necessarily cos her husband will not do it but just so she is not helpless if he is unable or not around to do it.Last winter the radiator in our room was not working and hubby was not around(if he was around wetin consain me ) this was like 11pm and I called British gas who could not get an engineer out for another couple of hours.The guy on the phone asked if we had bled the radiator in a while and I said I don't know and he told me how to do it.I actually did it and it worked.My husband could not believe I did it myself.But it really was not that hard.Some women would wait for their husbands.My husband says he knows I can do a lot of things but I pretend not to .Same way I am confident enough to travel and leave him with the kids.

I don't believe teaching children life skills should be gender biased( my opinion).My son will not leave his plates in the sink for his sister cos she is the girl lai lai I won't take it.Wash your plate.Not saying she can't wash his plates but it will not be an entitled assumption due her being the girl.I will tell my daughter to close her legs(it's just being decent) but I will also twist my sons ears if I find him sagging his trousers with half of his boxers in full view(that again is a matter of decency).

ihedinobi2:
. But it may be necessary to remind feminists of how it isn't unfair.

indeed. That's why we have you, sir.

ihedinobi2:
If his definition of feminism is correct then he's right, coogar. Do you think he's wrong?

feminism is a fraud!
it doesn't matter the number of types of feminism anyone can put forward.....if the concept itself is fraudulent, any structure put on it would be null & void to me.

the movement was socially engineered by the government to drive women out en masse and turn them to capitalist slaves. did rockefeller not admit to aaron russo that the feminist movement was socially engineered to push women into the workforce to increase tax revenues and corporate profits?

now, bcause of women entering the workplace en masse in the 1960s, the price of homes and vehicles skyrocketed. the big corporations could now charge more for homes and vehicles because working women created the dual income household. as the income increased so did the tax rates....

mcino:
A few observed points, though.
1. The op is a tactful hater of Adichie and intelligently gave the impression that the writer is a woman, so as to make the article more acceptable. This was not detected early enough, and he was able to run away with it and its attendant effect on the whole discourse. Oluchukwu Aloysius-Gonzaga Nwikwu is male and google (https://www.facebook.com/oluchukwualoysiusgonzaganwikwu) would have solved this, but the op chose to ride on people's ignorance to achieve a hate goal

What's the difference between your assumptions about the OP and Nwikwu's profiling of Adichie?

I think the OP should also have been more careful with his words but look how you chose to tell him that. It's hard to say that you're not a tactful pickabeau1 hater.

2. The writer is a hater, otherwise remarks like "Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s ‘feminist’ views, as well as towards her [b]tasteless style of performance", especially the bolded wouldn't have been necessary. There are lots of such remarks, like "Unquestionably, Adichie has been everywhere with her opinions in recent years—ill-conceived as they are doomed to be—plus ever-willing to present them in manners that confirm a thorough lack of tact and class" and "Yes indeed, it’s OK to have strong opinions, but nothing confirms Adichie’s lack of a full integration into her American society—despite having spent many years there—than her consistently unashamed display of words betraying a lack of class.", which depicts a loser, who tries every inch to find a mate in pulling others to his un-existent world. His definition and understanding of class is sour and ill-driven.

Again, how is this different in kind from Nwikwu's own profiling of Adichie?

3. He is petty, and that is why he made such a statement, "And so I’ll go ahead to remark that according to my Igbo culture, when a woman goes about town or country acting out of control and spewing sheer arrogance as has been the case with Adichie the writer, sensible adults tend to point fingers of blame at one ultimate culprit—a vacuum—and it specifically has to do with the absence of a real man in the woman’s life, either as a strong father figure, or as a strong and influential brother or partner. One could say ‘husband’ instead of ‘partner’ if they will. (And I add that this fourth is also the final vacuum.)". For Christ's sake, anybody that is trying, without bias to counter somebody's argument wouldn't go this far in attacking her person. This is petty and lacks the'class' that the writer touted, a handful times in this article.

Again, how is this...?

4. The writer is an intellectual fraud. He tried to make the audience (and Nairaland audience actually fell for it) feel that Adichie was referring to the men, when he quoted Adichie to have in this; "Her reason was that as she struggled with multiple bags in a hotel elevator, citizens stood by and watched who could have helped or simply offered to assist her. Such a thing wouldn’t have happened in her beloved Nigeria, she said". His background information on this quote did not indicate in any way that Adichie was referring to men not helping him. Adichie could well be referring to the unfriendliness of the swedish. It doesn't matter whether it is a man or a woman. Anybody who is suffering under some luggage up a staircase, would expect the people, standing by to offer a hand of help, whether they are men or women, and when that doesn't come, the natural thing is think that such people are unfriendly. Why would the writer try to, dishonestly make us believe that Adichie was referring to male citizens, watching her struggling with her bags up an elevator?

Apart from the fact that you're obviously still "attacking" the author while condemning him for "attacking" Adichie, I think that you are wrong about what the author meant to convey.

Nwikwu stated along the way that the Finnish society is a self-centerd one and that that selfishness was a result of feminism. There is neither chivalry on the part of men nor kindness on the part of women, according to him. If it hadn't been for feminism, he implies, somebody - male or female, it does not matter - would have offered a helping hand. Over there, everyone looks out for himself or herself as the case may be. And his position is that that is the natural and logical conclusion of gender equality.

Again, it is not merely that men are no longer chivalrous enough to help a lady struggling with her bags, it is that women also lack the kindness to help a stranger struggling with her bags.

Personally, i don't subscribe to feminism in any form and do not see any need to advance such radicalism, but if the speech you are referring to is the one here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg3umXU_qWc, then you obviously and consciously misrepresented the lady, who in most of your submissions, you never liked a bit. In that speech, I could discern that Adichie is just like William Wilberforce, who once said, "If to be feelingly alive to the sufferings of my fellow-creatures is to be a fanatic, I am one of the most incurable fanatics ever been in existence at large". She described how she came to be known as a feminist and how she has modified it to be an African Happy Feminist, which means that she understands the implication and the perception accompanying feminists and wouldn't wish to be one. However, I understand that she has a very strong feeling, which when she wants to communicate would be understood as being feminism and has no choice but to sweat under that cloak, even when it is not her intention.

I haven't seen this speech and cannot right now, but I have made a mental note to see it sometime. Still, some of what I have seen has been pretty extreme and reactionary.

Finally, Adichie is a diamond that has no hiding place. I understand that she is always sought out to come and deliver lectures and speeches, not because she so much craves for it, but because people always desire to hear from the people they feel have proved to be exceptional. She has a strong feeling and an opinion that she lets out, whenever she is sought out to speak and as it is said, she is entitled to it. Much as she is an influence, it behoves on all her critics to try and be like her (a star), so that when they are selected among the crowd to speak, they would equally share their own opinions. May be, people would buy theirs, and drop that of Adichie. Anything outside this will be the kind of ranting by Ebeneezer Williams, when Nnamdi Azikiwe was soliciting for fund to build the great University of Nigeria Nsukka. He mocked the idea of BSc Nsukka, etc, but today history has placed Ebeneezer Williams and Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe where they belong. While the former remained, till date a nobody, the latter is revered as Zik of Africa.

I agree. However, I hope that you have seen how hard it can be to focus on the arguments a person makes to the exclusion of their own personality. I also think that it is not always possible to ignore the person behind the arguments nor is it always necessary or good to. But under no circumstances is it acceptable to batter a person in the manner that Nwikwu did Adichie to make his point. In that, we are both agreed.

freecitizn: OP thanks for the article. Had a good read. The discussants have also done justice with their comments.

"...Does not even nature itself teach you..."1 Cor 11:4

Seriously, I've been trying to wrap my head around the ideology of feminism with no success. I'm still very much open to any convincing, logical and disinterested argument for the cause. I believe men and women can coexist peacefully and cooperatively if they identify and fit in to their purpose and roles. We don't have ant colonies ranting about 'queen-antism', 'worker-antism', or 'soldier-antism', and that's why they are formidable.

As we are wont to do especially in Nigeria, we import ideals and values without fully understanding the concept, origin, objectives or consequences. Majorly just to sound/look savvy or intelligent. Worse still we almost always outdo the originators.

At the barest minimum, simply observing physiological and psychological differences between sexes show that we have different strengths, roles and capabilities. How about amicably harnessing and synergizing these for overall societal progress. We are not unequal, we are just different! or where exactly are we headed? When exactly would we have achieved complete feminism? When a couple draws a roster for sex change operations on alternately bearing and nursing children?

The law and society indeed has a slant towards women in some aspects and I don't hear complaints about that from either sex. Recently, I heard about a bank account/loan scheme strictly for business women. Are we subject to different to different inflation rates or economic conditions? Like people rightly pointed out, the name easily gives away its core bias and proclivities...'feminism'. If it was a sincere and egalitarian effort as it ostensibly claims to be, it would be 'humanism' or 'equalism'.

1000 likes to princefunmi and bootybuttchic. *replaces earphones and continues imbibing yanni*

Very good post indeed. I like this part most: "we are not unequal, we are just different". Words I've been looking for this whole time. Thanks.

TV01: In the West these days, one has to be “onside” of the prevailing ideology of the day. Otherwise the establishment rejects you. The establishment being that power working through the elites in politics, media, business, entertainment and the like, who, unseen too many, are working towards a common goal. I won’t speculate here on just what that goal might be.

Being offside or resisting enforcement of the prevailing tenetss or ideologies (read some elements of feminism and it’s twin homosexual equality) will get you brow beaten. If you do not toe the line, you will be “mob bullied” – by the attack dogs of the same establishment – shamed into silence, and effectively shut-out or ostracised.


It’s similar to – and somewhat exposed by - her later utterances on homosexuality, which were in lock-step with the US’ threats to Nigeria over – at the time – proposed legislation. New style imperialism – with the same ends.

Adichies utterances are just another method by which the establishment operates.. This was propaganda. She’s been bought and what we see is her selling out. I thought the OP was a bit off in how it was presented regardless of any valid points made. I actually think the rejoinder was poor overall.

But the speech itself was merely a string of anecdotes, aimed at painting the situation in Nigeria in the worst light possible. Where were the stats, the numbers or the evidence? Only an implied negative comparision to the West and Feminism as the solution.

Apart from the West “harvesting” her when she was all but ripe, did she not come up through the Nigerian system? Is she not a product of Nigerian parents, education and culture?

For every evil identified by “feminism” in Nigeria, I could identify one caused by feminism or other aspects of the prevailing culture in the West. And at an anecdotal level, Damiso has countered a lot of what Adichie claimed.

Do we have structural problems? Yes. Is feminism the answer? No. Are there things we could glean or even incorporate from the West culturally? Sure. Do we need to toss out what we have wholesale as useless, redundant and without value? Absolutely not.

Yes, we have some entrenched mindsets, attitudes and mores which we will be best rid of. We are in fact already shot of many of these, what we are seeing in some instances is vestigial remains. With time we will see further improvement, even if we do nothing else

Nigeria is progressing in some regards. Let’s remember, that the effect of any changes take time to trickle through. And some of the ones being pushed by Adichie and her Western sponsors are simply not beneficial and not wanted here. The fact that she needs to denigrate her culture to sell them speaks volumes.


TV

Excellent post, TV.

fantasia200: do u live in this country (Nigeria)?

Do you disagree with him?

joomiegirl:

This thread really is tired, and besides my popcorn haf finish

But I really feel I should reply your post comprehensively.

You didn't have to but thanks.

That definition is very incomplete- a screensaver.

This is the proper definition.

"One of the main problems with “feminism” is that it exploits the legitimate claims of equal rights as a cloak to usher in its divisive, hateful and neurotic interests. Interests that are plainly anti-male and not at all about equal rights." -Kelly Mac (a woman)

Who the hell is Kelly?

CLARIFICATION:

HERE ARE SOME QUOTES FROM FAMOUS FEMINISTS:

“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.”  – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

THIS ONE IS CLASSIC:
“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking Love Machine.”  -– Valerie Solanas

“I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig.” — Andrea Dworkin

“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” — Susan Brownmiller

(Chai. ALL men?)

“The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men.” — Sharon Stone

“In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” — Catherine MacKinnon

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart

“Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience.” – Catherine Comins

“All men are rapists and that’s all they are” — Marilyn French

“Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release.” — Germaine Greer.
http://www.womenagainstmen.com/media/feminism-is-a-hate-group.html

So because there are some bad eggs, the whole movement and ideology is wrong? Like really?

If this is so, stop going to church because priests are bleeping little children, boys and girls. There are some evil Christians, why not condemn the whole religion?

ALL OF THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN CONTAINED IN THAT DEFINITION.

What should be contained in the definition? Some women who seem to have serious issues? Really? Then do not forget church leaders who bleep children when you next go to church.

HERE IS MY TAKE, FROM WHAT I RESEARCHED ONLINE:

Next time provide the source for your quotes. I can create a webpage at any time and claim that the USA are about to invade Nigeria. Anyone can claim anything online.

F

eminism is beyond the right to vote and the education of the girl child.
The may have started out with that, but have long ago "lost it" along the way.

Says who? The Internet?

Feminists have pure scorn and disregard for the women who CHOOSE to be stay-at-home moms.

Says who? The Internet?

Feminists do not recognize the man as the head of the home.

Says who? The Internet?

Their doctrine and dogma have added greatly to the dysfunctionality in families.

Says who? The Internet?

THIS, THEN; IS MY SUBMISSION:

I Know who I am.

Some silly dictionary does NOT define me.

That label...I don't care for it; it looks NOTHING like me; I do not share in its ideals stated above.

TWO PEOPLE define who I am: GOD FIRST, and then myself. I hope to do him proud with His definition of me. Its a process.

You're a feminist..no wahala.

However, from what I've read from you thus far, it seems you may been looking at the screensavers they have, not the nitty-gritty core ideals of these people. Which is PRECISELY what A. Gonzago tried to point out. I will grant you that allowance.


I don't have to be a feminist to expect fairness.

I don’t have to be a feminist to recognize the incredible value of women.  

I don’t have to be a feminist to feel empowered.  

I was crafted by the Master Creator with the ultimate gifts and abilities to make the world a better place.  

Is it you talking now or some people you found online you don't even know?

My dear, I don't want to turn this into a religious argument; I don't know if you're a christian, but I am, and its not something I can hide.

Too bad, Christian leaders bleep children.

Ever heard of Zelophehad's daughters? They were five (5) sisters in the bible who were told they couldn't inherit their father's property because they were women.
They complained to Moses, and God instructed Moses to give them their inheritance; it was their right.

Same bible preaches hierachy and order; man to submit to God, woman to submit to man.

I live by the bible (so help me God), and that bible is at complete loggerheads with the ideals and values of feminists. I did not cook up those ideals, its what I researched and saw.

So therefore; I am no feminist.
QED.

Cheers dear.

THE END.

Your choice but don't forget man of the Bible bleep little children. Feminists are men-haters and Christians are paedophiles.

Cheers

MrAnony1: I have enjoyed reading your posts so far on this thread and while I don't agree with you, you seem to be one of the few people on here who actually know what they are talking about. Now to my objections.

I really appreciate a discourse with someone who disagrees in a respectful way.

This is not a feminist issue. There is also name-calling for men who are not married past age 40

You are right but men are brought up to be independent and have greater choices in life to face the pressure and take a stand. Correct me if I am wrong.

How exactly are bad boys celebrated and how exactly are women "discriminated against" in this regard?

There are plenty of posts on NL of men and women who say that they will give their teenage boys freedom that they will not give their daughters. It is ok for many people to see their teenage boys with girls but they will freak out if their daughters have a boyfriend.

In the pop culture boys call themselves "baddest boy" with pride but women will rather not. It is ok for a man to mess around but women are suppossed to act like they have no needs.

What is wrong with this? How exactly are women worse off because they are expected to be mothers primarily?

A woman should choose if she wants to be a mother or not. A woman, like a man, should choose what their primary roles are. It should not be determined by gender.

But the Nigerian law does not prohibit women from owning property, neither does it limit their property rights as opposed to men. So what's your point?

My point is that girls are raised in a way that they believe that a man will take care of themselves and later do not aspire to having their own. Instead of taking pride in academic achievements, they take pride in their mirror reflection because this is what will get them men and therefore a roof over their, sorry, empty heads. Society expects women to marry quite young, have children and support their husbands. Society does not encourage women to discover what they are really good at and how they can make a change outside the home.

I have no problem with stay-at-home moms but not every woman was meant to be one.

Please do

I think it is enough for the moment.

freshdude2: I find it hard to comprehend that comment or the idea behind it.

Me sef shock...

MrAnony1:
Just wanted to quickly respond to these:

To answer your questions, I would say YES to all. . . . . but that is not where the conversation ends we must also ask

- Do women have a right to vote in Nigeria?

- Are women paid the same salary as men for doing the same work in Nigeria?

- Do women have the right to be educated in Nigeria?

If the answer to these questions is YES (and I believe they are) then we must ask: What then is the relevance of feminism to the Nigerian society?

You are a feminist

By the way, the North is also part of Nigeria.

If there is no law against child brides and no persecution of grown up men marrying children, then there is no education for all female children and the society is far from sanity.

Additonally, there is a recent British Council report that shows that women are not paid the same in Nigeria.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/67333/Gender-Nigeria2012.pdf

Look, I am not anti-men or anti-boys. I just feel like helping girls. If you feel like helping boys, please do it. I will even support you but my main interest is with girls. Simply because I am a woman.

Decryptor:

Now you are making sense to me. If the bolded is what you seek after, it is not wrong. It is the type of woman whom you made mention of who wants men to pay her bills that is the real problem and not women like you who hold a reasonable stance in the area of women equality. Because believe me, I am pained when I hear that in some parts of Nigeria, women are not allowed to vote or hold some public offices and this is usually in the Northen part of Nigeria. Like you truly said, I feel for the upcoming generation of women to come unless there is a rapid change which is what I wish for

You are a feminist

crackhaus:
All these you just listed are just ideologies based on competition which you have disguised as equality.

All the points that I have listed can be termed discrimination on grounds of gender.

I won't even bother picking them out one by one, but believe me when I say I have good refutations to each.

I believe you.

But see I'm your friend, let me tell you what feminism in Nigeria should be fighting against/for as the case may be.
I only want to help because as I have always known, feminists are a pretty confused bunch, so imma help out:

You have made some brilliant points but your comment would have been much better without any insults.

1. Mama Ngozi just lost her husband, she was made to undergo some traditional rites that were barbaric, she was locked in a room for three days and was given minimal food, she was maltreated because they accused her of killing her husband.

Carefree, as a feminist, this is your fight and should be the fight of all genuine feminists and pro-equalists.

First of all, I am not fighting. I am arguing and I am promoting my ideas but anyway.

Scenarios such as this will not happen if female education will be taken more seriously because we all know that such scenarios are only possible with the help of uneducated women.

2. Mama Kamilu is old and tired, she has lost her children. She now walks on the street begging alms because her village council banished her on the ground that she is a witch.

Feminists, focus please. This is what you should be fighting against.

Scenarios such as this will not happen if female education will be taken more seriously because we all know that such scenarios are only possible with the help of uneducated women.

Scenarios such as this will NOT bepossible if women will not have to depend on men and their male children but make sure that they are comfortable in old age.

3. Blessing and Charity are sisters, they have a brother. John (brother) wasn't asked to go with his Aunt to Spain, instead it was his two sisters who were deceived into prostitution in Spain by their Aunty under the guise of going for schooling.

Carefree, as a feminist, this is what you and your comrades should be championing and fighting against.

I hope you get the point...

Bad example because female and male prostitution cannot be compared but anyway, I get your points and I really like them.

crackhaus:
This is not what you should be fighting for disguising it as equality. This problem is far more culturally related than it is about gender.

Please do not tell me that you do not know that gender is not only a biological but ALSO a social construct and that its perception and the expectations of a certain gender differ CULTURALLY.

Deal with it, this here is not equality. You feminists want to compete on something so negative as promiscuity.
What does this tell you about the contemporary ideologies and motivations of feminism?

Who said anyone wants to compete on promiscuity?
Are men promiscuous?

Competition again with the male gender, this is not what the feminism you so hold dear is about.

I dey laff una.

What are you talking about?

The day women start going on their knees to ask the hand of men in marriage, pay the groom price, sponsor the entire marriage, and have the man come live with her under her own roof paid for in full with her own money...only then will it happen the other way around.

I do not need and do not want a man to do all this and it will NOT happen. I am not a piece of property to be sold off and my partner does not have to go on his knees.

Keep calling competitiveness feminism. I dey laff una.

Why put words in my mouth again and again? And no matter how much you laugh, it does not make your statements more qualified.

Competition not equality.
Funny how most of your examples fall under the promiscuity spectrum.

Is it in promiscuity the feminists want to have equal footing on?

You still haven't said something worthy regarding how women's rights are being trampled upon.

So you are saying men are hoes?

Kay17:

People like you reduce such serious issues into courtship matters. The essence of chivalry in courtship is to charm and attract and nothing more.

To weigh the input and importance of feminism, try to compare the 20 th century with the 19 century and see the difference between the political and social rights guaranteed to women. It is the progress made in the past that you enjoy! The right to education, the right to vote, the right to safe pregnancy and delivery, the right to work. These are taken for granted today (mainly because we don't read history).

Equality is not about biologically altering the man into a woman or vice versa, rather on the basis of rights. That's the argument.

What exactly does history say about the 19th century? Does it say anything about centuries that preceded that?

I put it to you that you are wholly and entirely wrong that chivalry is just about courtship. Chivalry is the correct relationship between man and woman, between the strong and the weak. It is always about using one's strength to uphold a weaker person. It is what is expected of a man with a woman, whether he is courting her or living with her as her husband.

MrAnony1:
Just wanted to quickly respond to these:

To answer your questions, I would say YES to all. . . . . but that is not where the conversation ends we must also ask

- Do women have a right to vote in Nigeria?

- Are women paid the same salary as men for doing the same work in Nigeria?

- Do women have the right to be educated in Nigeria?

If the answer to these questions is YES (and I believe they are) then we must ask: What then is the relevance of feminism to the Nigerian society?

I wonder why our resident feminists have not done justice to these questions yet. Since how many pages ago?