cococandy: if I didn't read it,how else did I know what she said?
I did.
First of all I've stopped having the pointless forth and backs about feminism that we do here,no one manages to convince the other anyway.so why sweat it?

Second it's laughable that she thinks she knows better than adichie about the issue. Smh.
There's a reason why she's the unknown and adichie is the star.(Not that it matters)
But I see it self conceit for her to think she knows better.

And yes she's a hater,how can I not point that out? Most of the vitriol she spewed on the lady gave her away to be the classless attention seeking person that she really is.
Matter of fact how can I see her point when I don't know if the topic is about feminism,adichie or adichie's brand of feminism?
Ok so there are different brands and adichie has one brand all to herself. That's nice


How does Nigerian women being almost as educated as females in other parts of the world nullify that fact that for the most part we are still considered less than men?
And does she want us to rule out some parts of Nigeria while conducting the research about female education in nigeria? How convenient!
I mean if it's restricted to the north alone which BTW is more than half the land mass of nigeria it's all good. Right?
As long as it is in the north. No wahala.
And she says she lives in nigeria.


I still don't get why I should sit and discuss chimamanda's understanding of feminism.
Is she setting the rules for anyone?

carefreewannabe:

[s]Social issues such as the name calling of women who are not married and past 30.

Social issues such as the celebraion of "bad boys" but discrimination of women who are not ashamed of having a libido.

Social and economic issues such as the conviction that a woman's primary role is motherhood.

Economic issues such as the ownership of properties.

I could go on and on. [/s]

cococandy:
Like I said,I don't see why I should be discussing adichie
Or any other celebrity for that matter.
Enjoy

5minsmadness:
As a people who initiated feminism and have finally arrived at the journey’s final destination—a state of existence completely unimaginable to the likes of Adichie—this is how we live as Scandinavians:

1. There is no chivalry left in the land. Men open doors for themselves. Women open for themselves. Anything other than that is foreign and the exception, not the rule.

2. Men pay their bills. Women pay theirs. A couple visits a café, the man pays for his coffee and the lady pays for hers. Anything other than that is foreign and the exception, not the rule.

3. Men do not compliment women. Instead, because men and women are engaged in an eternal battle for equality, each party expects to be complimented. Anything other than that is foreign and the exception, not the rule.

4. Like the French and the Germans jointly told Britain when that island nation pushed to renegotiate its EU membership conditions: The European Union as an organisation isn’t an à la carte setting where one enters and decides what to take and what to omit. You either are fully in, or fully out. Put differently: there’s no such thing as cherry picking when attempting to adopt feminism. You can’t say ‘I want that aspect of it, but not the other one’. It is and will always be a chain of realities—imperceptibly linked—and once you try securing an element, be sure to welcome the rest which will inevitably follow.

5. We Scandinavians have championed the feminist cause since time immemorial. Still, our women over here have yet to invent anything beyond roadside hair salons. The national innovation coffers are accessible to both sexes equally. But it’s the men who continue to invent and innovate and help this region maintain its spot as the leading innovator globally. That’s to say that there is no proof that feminism could turn women into the world’s top inventors of things and founders of top companies. The reality in Finland, after one hundred years of feminism and equal opportunities, is that men alone still found the major companies whose taxes take care of the nation, and when such firms employ women it isn’t purely for their skills but also for the sake of diversity.

6. Unfortunate rivalry or war between the sexes is big in our homes and workplaces.

7. Our families are often broken and passionate love is now foreign or the exception.

8. It’s not uncommon for our children to be victimised by battling parents, and for them to be eventually raised by the government.

9. We no longer make enough offspring to perpetuate our civilisation.

10. And finally: there is little to zero love, kindness, and humaneness left around here. We seem to have stifled all of it with the warring energy we’ve been emitting for the past hundred years. This was the reason nobody thought it necessary to assist Adichie in carrying her bags in Sweden.

carefreewannabe:

Without feminism we would not have education and enlightenment of females.
Slut-bashing and the celebration of "bad boys" is unfair and unjust.

Another reason why feminism is needed.

Cool.

But it seems to be common sense that men are polygamous by nature and therefore cannot control themselves and so the wife has to forgive, pray and fast. This is Nigeria for women. Tell something like this a woman in a developed country and she will laugh and then slap you

Why not protect polyandry and polygyny?

carefreewannabe:

It is sad we have women like this. I have just been arguing with a woman who has an income but belives the man has to pay all the bills

I weep for our daughters.

I am a feminist in the sense that women should have the same social, political and economic rights. I HAVE NOTICED that women are VERY OFTEN part of the problem and not the solution.

I do not hate men. I do not want to eat my cake and have it.

coogar: adichie should stick to writing stories & leave social issues like feminism alone. she's a hypocrite.

MrAnony1:
The types of feminists you listed aren't in the same category we are discussing.

I have already answered your question here: https://www.nairaland.com/1835324/adichies-feminism-vacuums-fallacies-gonzaga/2#25110073

If you disagree, you are welcome to explain why you think that such a distinction either doesn't exist or is irrelevant.

pickabeau1:


Bro.....you have not answered it
Rather just said a radical feminist demonizes men

How do I recognise a regular feminist or a radical one

Do they not use the same language...

carefreewannabe: . . . . .Like I said, you are talking about feminism without getting the idea behind it. I am a feminist and I do not hate men.

carefreewannabe:
Now answer my questions, please:

- Do you believe women should have the right to vote?

- Do you believe women should be paid the same salary as men doing the same work?

- Do you believe women should have the right to be educated?

carefreewannabe:
Social issues such as the name calling of women who are not married and past 30.

Social issues such as the celebraion of "bad boys" but discrimination of women who are not ashamed of having a libido.

Social and economic issues such as the conviction that a woman's primary role is motherhood.

Economic issues such as the ownership of properties.

I could go on and on.

TV01:
Progress made by women was handed to them by men - and in many cases, rightly so - just don't make it sound like women fought and single-handedly achieved the gains.

Why are you making it sound like feminism is no longer extant in the West? Especially when it's toxicity is deeply evidenced in society.

And with hope and time to avoid the mess in places like Scandinavia.

TV01:
Women have the right and opportunity to marry or not. That some believe - as I do - that marriage is central for both men and women and should be entered into mindful of biological imperatives, does not call for a "movement" to still dissenting beliefs


Why is the celebration of bad boys a social issue? Are they bad by themselves? And if they are bad, is the answer to enjoin women to be equally bad?


Women are designed for motherhood. why is it wrong for men and or women to consider this a primary role? Why is it an issue if some believe this? Why mist feminism eradicate different convictions?


Where are women legally refused the right to inheritor own property?


Needlessly so. Feminism is causeless and the gains often attributed to it happened despite it, not because of it. Progress would always have been made in terms of equality. Fact. Feminism has just co-opted and claimed those gains, Now given it's head, it is clearly evident how destructive it is.


TV

crackhaus:
All these you just listed are just ideologies based on competition which you have disguised as equality. I won't even bother picking them out one by one, but believe me when I say I have good refutations to each.

But see I'm your friend, let me tell you what feminism in Nigeria should be fighting against/for as the case may be.
I only want to help because as I have always known, feminists are a pretty confused bunch, so imma help out:

1. Mama Ngozi just lost her husband, she was made to undergo some traditional rites that were barbaric, she was locked in a room for three days and was given minimal food, she was maltreated because they accused her of killing her husband.

Carefree, as a feminist, this is your fight and should be the fight of all genuine feminists and pro-equalists.

2. Mama Kamilu is old and tired, she has lost her children. She now walks on the street begging alms because her village council banished her on the ground that she is a witch.

Feminists, focus please. This is what you should be fighting against.

3. Blessing and Charity are sisters, they have a brother. John (brother) wasn't asked to go with his Aunt to Spain, instead it was his two sisters who were deceived into prostitution in Spain by their Aunty under the guise of going for schooling.

Carefree, as a feminist, this is what you and your comrades should be championing and fighting against.

I hope you get the point...

MrAnony1:
Wow! You asked me the difference between a radical feminist and a regular feminist and I explained to you that one demonizes men while the other doesn't. I wonder what else you expect a difference to look like.


You will recognize the radical feminist as the feminist who demonizes men. The other feminist who doesn't demonize men is NOT a radical feminist. Can I spell it out for you any better?


I don't understand this question or how it is relevant to the distinction I put forward.

Has it now been made clear enough to you? Do you still disagree with the distinction, and if so, why?


Edit: Here is what a regular feminist sounds like:

https://www.nairaland.com/1835324/adichies-feminism-vacuums-fallacies-gonzaga/6#25124459

A radical feminist is more likely to say something along the lines of "men are pigs" . . . .or something subtler that still demonizes men: something like "teach your sons not to rape" (assuming that men are rapists by default)

If you can't understand what I'm saying by now, then I cannot help you at all.

mappete: Even though i feel Chimamanda's ideology is a bit extreme, her arguments have some validity to it. You have no right to assume that feminism isnt an issue in Nigeria or is only limited to the Northern parts if you've not actually been a victim. And if at all Chimamanda is speaking for the minority, what about that is so offensive to you? Aren't they humans as well? Or dont they have rights as well?

African men (both old and young i've found from experience) flock around and desire the best educated females as wives only to tell you after marriage that your education is only as good as the kitchen door or looking after the kids - if all u need is a home-keeper why not settle for the less educated who have less opportunity cost? Some are even "gracious" enough to suggest opening up a shop for you without considering the fact that not only males have dreams, females do to. Why take away my choice?

Have you ever been broke as a student with no idea of when your next allowance is coming? Do you recall that feeling of helplessness? Now think about living with that feeling for the rest of your life because thats what some women endure in this Nigeria. No allowance besides the general feeding expenditure and a husband conditioning getting you a new phone on your delivery of a male child - believe it or not, this is some people's reality. A life whereby one has to result to stealing from ones husband in order to afford recharge card. . .

I could go on but i'll just sum this up by saying - please keep it down if you dont have a solution to or dont recognise/understand the situation on ground and let those that do (like chimamanda) speak for the masses. Her opinions may be a bit far-fetched right now but they'll at least lay a foundation for more accurate solutions to the problem on ground (as is the case with all theories ever developed).

kay17: in your belief, what were the goals of feminism in the past that are redundant today?

pickabeau1:

Kay17..assume i dont know... answer what are d issues

pickabeau1: Ok.. your opinion

If you are ready to discuss further.,.. call me

If not.. lets agree to disagree

Im having a productive discussion with others more inclined to discourse

@Kay17

Bootybuttchic: we are talking equality here,and not about,oppressors or bullies pls........reread the posts again

Amhappy:

as fair treatment is what humans should fight for not equality.

Amhappy:

I read the post wella and stated that i dont even understand feminism as fair treatment is what humans should fight for not equality.

MrAnony1:
Exactly! These are what feminism ought to be about. Championing the cause of women NOT demanding an respect for their promiscuity.

Kay17: @crackhaus

@anony1

Those issues crackhaus diligently made can be resolved if women have the requisite rights. Because most Igbo women are not accorded the human right to dignity of a person, they are treated in such manner. Because most women lack economic rights, they fall into poverty upon divorce or widowship.

Adichie is obviously right. Women are not accorded respect, they are treated like objects, yet if they do have rights which translates to power,they become self assertive EVEN in their sexuality.

MrAnony1: Beautiful response. If I had seen this earlier, perhaps I wouldn't have asked the same questions

MrAnony1:
This is simply not true. You cannot give someone a universal right you can only stop violating it. This is like saying that the white man gave you your right to freedom. It was not his right to give, he merely stopped violating it. Universal rights such as the right to be treated equally are not the property of an oppressor to give. No one has the right to withhold from you that which is rightfully yours.

MrAnony1:
This is what feminists fought for - they fought against the violation of their right to be seen as equal human beings with their male counterparts - and they must be commended for it.

MrAnony1:
In what way exactly is feminism toxic?

MrAnony1:
In what way exactly is Scandinavia a mess.

pickabeau1: Correct post.. crackhaus


The same copy copy mentality that has turned some of our women into bleached mannequins though we are somehow responsible too

joomiegirl:

My dear, really didn't see anything chuavinistic about his post, nor intellectually derogatory about women.




The bald truth is; we africans tend to jump on every western bandwagon that rolls along without fully contemplating the pros and cons.
If the whites think its cool, then we must too? the LGBT issue is a perfect example...I don't condone hate for any reason whatsoever, but what is not good, is not good. Just because the western world thinks its the new "cool"; must we? But I digress.

I agree FULLY. I would lend my voice, and pen and any other thing to advocate against gender discrimination in the workplace; for example.
I believe in merit..irrespective of gender. Educating the girl child. All of that.

BUT It really IS quite another thing to advocate for equality in everything.

Trying to do so is a TOTAL fallacy.

And I believe with all humility that I'm in a position to speak on this matter.

I'm in a field that is predominantly male. About 95% male.
I work hard. I get recognition for my input. As a matter of fact, there are responsibilities that get handed to me by my boss, simply because he believes I'm far more meticulous in those areas than my male colleagues.

But my dear, let me tell you; there are some areas in my field in which even I; would NEVER dream of hiring a female. Areas that require BRAWN.

Areas in which a female can spout till she's blue in the face, but she cannot do what is required...she CANNOT deliver..in those areas!!

Me sef, Ah get muscle? no!

In light of that alone, what equality are we shouting about, really?

How about the men start a campaign AGAINST maternity leave, for example, since we want equality? Why should we get 3 months off, simply because we put to bed?

In the same vein, how bout the women start campaigning for men to start getting pregnant and carrying babies (I'm sure science can somehow arrange that, now)...

We are talking equality now, abi?

Do you see the confusion?

In relationships, the feminist makes it all a dreary power tussle. She wants to be head.
It throws the family system out of whack.
How about protection? Spiritual headship? Leadership, a father figure?

While it is true that some single mothers have done great jobs in raising their kids, those women certainly would tell you it would have been a lot easier if they had a strong, responsible father figure present.

I don't know about you, but I certainly shudder at the way both sexes are said to relate to each other in Finland.

I may be in a man's world, career-wise, BUT I'm no feminist.

I LIKE chivalry.

I EXPECT it.

Sounds crazy, but If I'm taking a walk with a guy, and I'm closest to the road, I expect him to swap positions with me. Yep.
Those little things say a lot...some automatically do it, and some don't. but then again not every man even knows what it is to be a real man, in the sense God meant him to be.
A man should protect his woman, and his children.

If we go on a date, I expect him to pay. Absolutely. It does NOT mean I cannot buy my own dinner.

If once in a while, I say, "hey, let's do lunch--my treat".... ehen, I know I'm paying. And even at that, does it diminish my sense of worth or independence; if he insists on picking up the bill?
I'm not some helpless female.
And yet, I wouldn't have things any other way than what God designed it to be.
BECAUSE and SIMPLY BECAUSE I have my own roles too. And I'm expected to support him. Allow him to be the leader. Of course I have input. But there can be no two captains in one boat.

Bottom-line, i think this dude pretty much summed it up:






My brother, I really don't know. Seeing as I'm not a feminist. All I see is a lot of man-hating and rage, especially amongst the "radical feminists" or wetin dem call deirselves...
We can talk till we're blue in the face...let everyman do what seemeth right unto him. That is the chaos we live in, in today's world.

Biko, that popcorn don finish?

Kay17:

Again you persist with the same assumption that women lack capacity for deep thought. That women don't know anything especially feminism. That even if feminism is harmful to the society, women still do not know.

The truth remains, gender is a function of culture, don't mistake it with sexes which biological.

The battleground for feminism is focussed on rights. Political, social and economic rights not on courtship issues. Feminism is much more deeper than gender roles. Hence most of the arguments against it are often red herrings and shallow. Should men have more rights to free speech than women OR more privacy rights than women? And issues of abortion and family planning revolve around privacy rights and health rights. But you hardly find people engage feminists on these vital pivotal issues.

Feminism became prominent especially with the political right to a vote.

Rather you get posts like the OP.