italo:

This penterascal says the apostles disrespected the mother of their master - God.

Hatred for Catholicism makes them lose their minds.

What is the meaning of "penterascal"? is this the best you can do rather than deliberate like a civilized person? are you tolling the boko haram/crusader's path?

honeric01:

Bro, does all these change the fact that Mary played no 'superior part' in the ministry of Jesus Christ on earth? was she the only virgin in Israel then? infact if anything, she should be the one happy that she was used because God can use anything just like he used BAllam' s donkey to minister to him, stingy Raven to feed Elijah, The wicked judge (king) to answer the prayers of the windowed woman.

Like I said, Jesus did not give any special reference to Mary while on earth nor did the apostles do.

Mary was a vessel used just like any other vessels God uses.

Mary played her part, John the Baptist played her part, same with Judah Iscariot.

The tone of this response speaks more about the disdain you have for the Blesssed Virgin Mary. Unfortunately, because you so bent on sola scriptura you fail to see or acknowledge the wider picture. You reduce Mary to any other virgin!! Please remember that as a Virgin, BVM was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit (Just as the old Ark of the Covenant - AOC) to conceive our Lord Jesus. Please remember how this old AOC was treated throughout the old testament. Even Elizabeth exclaimed “Who am I that the Mother of my Lord comes to visit” Luke 1:43 – Just like David on seeing the AOC (2Samuel 6:9).

Also, I wonder who the woman was in Genesis 3:15 (And I will put enmity btw you and the woman, and btw your seed and her seed; he will crush>>> BVM might not have been one of the 12 disciples but her role was integral to the coming of our Lord into the world at all, and at a number of crucial points as pointed out in previous post. To simply dismiss her role as though you’re threatened and insinuate that she was a nonentity goes against the majority of Christian history. “All generations will call me blessed” she said, not even the disciples said this.

btoks: The tone of this response speaks more about the disdain you have for the Blesssed Virgin Mary. Unfortunately, because you so bent on sola scriptura you fail to see or acknowledge the wider picture. You reduce Mary to any other virgin!! Please remember that as a Virgin, BVM was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit (Just as the old Ark of the Covenant - AOC) to conceive our Lord Jesus. Please remember how this old AOC was treated throughout the old testament. Even Elizabeth exclaimed “Who am I that the Mother of my Lord comes to visit” Luke 1:43 – Just like David on seeing the AOC (2Samuel 6:9).

Also, I wonder who the woman was in Genesis 3:15 (And I will put enmity btw you and the woman, and btw your seed and her seed; he will crush>>> BVM might not have been one of the 12 disciples but her role was integral to the coming of our Lord into the world at all, and at a number of crucial points as pointed out in previous post. To simply dismiss her role as though you’re threatened and insinuate that she was a nonentity goes against the majority of Christian history. “All generations will call me blessed” she said, not even the disciples said this.

Her role ends after giving birth to Jesus, with or without her, the ministry was never going to stop, having her name remembered as one of the notable persons in the bible is more than enough. God would have still used her even if she was not ready to yield. God chosen whoever he wants for his purpose.

And the quote from gen 3:15 is so way outta line, can you explain what significant that has with Mary being elevated almost higher than Jesus the saviour of the world by your likes?

some of you even believe without Mary, there wouldn't have been Jesus forgetting that Jesus was there when mary was being formed inthe first place.

I repeat again, Mary remains a tool just like most of the people God used/uses.

honeric01:

Why not prove me wrong with scriptures instead of this tactless comment?

In fact I'll prove you right.

Honeric Ch 1 v1: "Mary was not a disciple of Jesus."

Bravo!

Daftie!

italo:

In fact I'll prove you right.

Honeric Ch 1 v1: "Mary was not a disciple of Jesus."

Bravo!

Daftie!

Weak and lame.

honeric01:

Her role ends after giving birth to Jesus, with or without her, the ministry was never going to stop, having her name remembered as one of the notable persons in the bible is more than enough. God would have still used her even if she was not ready to yield. God chosen whoever he wants for his purpose.

And the quote from gen 3:15 is so way outta line, can you explain what significant that has with Mary being elevated almost higher than Jesus the saviour of the world by your likes?

some of you even believe without Mary, there wouldn't have been Jesus forgetting that Jesus was there when mary was being formed inthe first place.

I repeat again, Mary remains a tool just like most of the people God used/uses.

God used your mother as a tool to bear you...and we must honour her.

God came into the womb of Mary, she bore him, suckled him, bathed him, nurtured him etc...

And you want us and the apostles to join you in dishonouring her.

Penterascal! You have lost your mind.

italo:

God used your mother as a tool to bear you...and we must honour her.

God came into the womb of Mary, she bore him, suckled him, bathed him, nurtured him etc...

And you want us and the apostles to join you in dishonouring her.

Penterascal! You have lost your mind.

Yes, you have to respect those who gave birth to you, respect which everyone worthy of it deserve but not when you worship the person. Only God can and should be worshipped. worshipping a fellow mortal in the name of 'HONOUR" is where the line is crossed.

Do you build the stature of your mother in your room, house or any where else to bow and worship her in the name of honour?

No one told you not to respect your mother, but worshipping the image or stature of your mother is nothing but idolatry. if you do that, you have turned your mother to a god and an idol which God the jealous God is against.

Quit the "sentimental" sucked, birthed, nurtured yadayada.. with or without Mary, Jesus would still have been on earth for his ministry, this fact you cant change!

BTW, i think you have anger issues and very crude too with your use of words, why not learn to be civilized or maybe pretend to be by toning down on your "degrading" name calling?

What makes you think i am even "pentecostal"?

honeric01:

Her role ends after giving birth to Jesus, with or without her, the ministry was never going to stop, having her name remembered as one of the notable persons in the bible is more than enough. God would have still used her even if she was not ready to yield. God chosen whoever he wants for his purpose.

And the quote from gen 3:15 is so way outta line, can you explain what significant that has with Mary being elevated almost higher than Jesus the saviour of the world by your likes?

some of you even believe without Mary, there wouldn't have been Jesus forgetting that Jesus was there when mary was being formed inthe first place.

I repeat again, Mary remains a tool just like most of the people God used/uses.

Mary is not worshiped or elevated higher than Jesus this has been mentioned too many times - why force something that isn’t true down our throats!!! Mary is venerated due to her special status as the one who gave birth to our saviour – She’s the Theotokus (Council of Ephesus 431 AD). Whatever happened to Free Will if you think “God would have still used her even if she was not ready to yield” These issues are more complicated than a Nairaland exchange - People have studied years of Theology to still not fully comprehend issues like this and you think your statement is accurate. I'll leave the issue with what we do know happened.

OK, if the Gen 3:15 quote is way outta line please tell us what the line is. I’ll take the CC teaching over yours as it teaches that the passagse is a foreshadowing of Mary and Jesus. Please check out St Ireanaeus in the 2nd century:

Christ completely renewed all things, both taking up the battle against our enemy and crushing him who at the beginning had led us captive in Adam, trampling on his head, as you find in Genesis that God said to the serpent, “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and the seed of the woman. He will be on the watch for your head, and you will be on the watch for his heel.” From then on it was proclaimed that he who was to be born of a virgin, after the likeness of Adam, would be on the watch for the serpent’s head. This is the seed of which the apostle says in the letter to the Galatians, “The law of works was established until the seed should come to whom the promise was made.” He shows this still more clearly in the same epistle when he says, “But when the fullness of time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman.” – Gal 4:4 The enemy would not have been justly conquered unless it had been a man made of woman who conquered him. For it was by a woman that he had power over man from the beginning, setting himself up in opposition to man. Because of this the Lord also declares himself to be the Son of Man, so renewing in himself that primal man from whom the formation of man by woman began, that as our race went down to death by a man who overcame, and as death won the palm of victory over us by a man, so we might by a man receive the palm of victory over death. AGAINST HERESIES 5.21.1.

To repeat, Mary is not worshipped, she is given honour due to her special status. Your responses as I've mentioned before show a sort of disdain for Mary rather than honour which she deserves.

btoks:
Mary is not worshiped or elevated higher than Jesus this has been mentioned too many times - why force something that isn’t true down our throats!!! Mary is venerated due to her special status as the one who gave birth to our saviour – She’s the Theotokus (Council of Ephesus 431 AD). Whatever happened to Free Will if you think “God would have still used her even if she was not ready to yield” These issues are more complicated than a Nairaland exchange - People have studied years of Theology to still not fully comprehend issues like this and you think your statement is accurate. I'll leave the issue with what we do know happened.

OK, if the Gen 3:15 quote is way outta line please tell us what the line is. I’ll take the CC teaching over yours as it teaches that the passagse is a foreshadowing of Mary and Jesus. Please check out St Ireanaeus in the 2nd century:

Christ completely renewed all things, both taking up the battle against our enemy and crushing him who at the beginning had led us captive in Adam, trampling on his head, as you find in Genesis that God said to the serpent, “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and the seed of the woman. He will be on the watch for your head, and you will be on the watch for his heel.” From then on it was proclaimed that he who was to be born of a virgin, after the likeness of Adam, would be on the watch for the serpent’s head. This is the seed of which the apostle says in the letter to the Galatians, “The law of works was established until the seed should come to whom the promise was made.” He shows this still more clearly in the same epistle when he says, “But when the fullness of time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman.” – Gal 4:4 The enemy would not have been justly conquered unless it had been a man made of woman who conquered him. For it was by a woman that he had power over man from the beginning, setting himself up in opposition to man. Because of this the Lord also declares himself to be the Son of Man, so renewing in himself that primal man from whom the formation of man by woman began, that as our race went down to death by a man who overcame, and as death won the palm of victory over us by a man, so we might by a man receive the palm of victory over death. AGAINST HERESIES 5.21.1.

To repeat, Mary is not worshipped, she is given honour due to her special status. Your responses as I've mentioned before show a sort of disdain for Mary rather than honour which she deserves.

I have no personal grudge with Mary, i am only responding according to how you guys try to make her look. you have given her the stature of a god which is a disdain to me.

You talk about free-will, forgetting the case of Jonah, what happened to free-will in the case of Jonah?

As for Gen 3:15, go and do your own research on the meaning. it has more to do with the children of damnation and the saved.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-15.htm

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_756.cfm

I repeat again, Mary did the job God wanted her to do just like every other people in the past and presence God uses to accomplish his will/mission.

honeric01:

I have no personal grudge with Mary, i am only responding according to how you guys try to make her look. you have given her the stature of a god which is a disdain to me.

You talk about free-will, forgetting the case of Jonah, what happened to free-will in the case of Jonah?

As for Gen 3:15, go and do your own research on the meaning. it has more to do with the children of damnation and the saved.

http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-15.htm

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_756.cfm

I repeat again, Mary did the job God wanted her to do just like every other people in the past and presence God uses to accomplish his will/mission.

Re. Gen 3.15 -Don Stewart's?? interpretation vs St Ireanaeus, st Augustine, pope Pius IX and centuries of Christian history.I know which I'll choose. Please read Ireanaeus' letter in the previous post well.this was from the 2nd century.

btoks: Re. Gen 3.15 -Don Stewart's?? interpretation vs St Ireanaeus, st Augustine, pope Pius IX and centuries of Christian history.I know which I'll choose. Please read Ireanaeus' letter in the previous post well.this was from the 2nd century.

So what is your own interpretation? what interpretation did the holy spirit reveal to you or you just rely on other's interpretations?

I gave you mine even before including that of the quoted and other people within the 2 links provided.

St Ireneaus was a disciple of st Polycarp who in turn was tutored by the apostle John,thus st Ireneaus was not far from the true teachings of the apostle.St Augustine on the otherhand presided over the church council that decided the book of the bible.If. I am to chose between this men and one Don stewards your guess is as good as mine

honeric01:

So what is your own interpretation? what interpretation did the holy spirit reveal to you or you just rely on other's interpretations?

I gave you mine even before including that of the quoted and other people within the 2 links provided.

.This does not require my personal interpretation(as guarded against by Peter - 2peter1:20), it causes confusion leading to countless denominations. the church has already done the hard work and I profess to believe in the Catholic Church's teaching.the church is the pillar and foundation of truth-1tim3:15.

btoks: .This does not require my personal interpretation(as guarded against by Peter - 2peter1:20), it causes confusion leading to countless denominations. the church has already done the hard work and I profess to believe in the Catholic Church's teaching.the church is the pillar and foundation of truth-1tim3:15.

So your church interpretation is that the woman in gen 3:15 is mary and the seed is Jesus? God have mercy, what about the quote that says "study yourself approved.... "? how do you grow in the world of God and faith if you rely solely on others to interpret the bible for you? are you still a baby Christian or what? do you do personal studies at all?

honeric01:

So your church interpretation is that the woman in gen 3:15 is mary and the seed is Jesus? God have mercy, what about the quote that says "study yourself approved.... "? how do you grow in the world of God and faith if you rely solely on others to interpret the bible for you? are you still a baby Christian or what? do you do personal studies at all?

what do u want RCC to do? or u want them to stop honouring Mary or wht. pls tell us wht u are trying tp point out here

honeric01:

So your church interpretation is that the woman in gen 3:15 is mary and the seed is Jesus? God have mercy, what about the quote that says "study yourself approved.... "? how do you grow in the world of God and faith if you rely solely on others to interpret the bible for you? are you still a baby Christian or what? do you do personal studies at all?

My good bros, this is not new teaching.this has been taught since the early days of Christianity. I gave you St Ireanaeus letter as an example -this whole concept is called the proto evangelium. Obviously some people don't believe it but it doesn't change its truth.
In fact Jesus called Mary 'woman' at Cana and Calvary which no Jewish child will call his mother.was Jesus revealing something here?

I do bible study in conjunction with the church's teaching as it is the pillar and foundation of truth. The personal interpretation of Scripture is guarded against (2peter1.20). What do you really think has happened with everyone thinking they can interpret the scriptures -DRUM ROLLLLLLL!!- A lot confusion and denominations not in communion.

Bros these issues have been debated for centuries and aren't knew.the CC teaching is clear all over the world, I need not reinvent the wheel. What church are you a member of?

chukwudi44:

your write up contains virtually nothing about early christianity.If you want to know about early christianity you will need to hear about it directly from the peole who lived during that era

Prominent christian writers of that era include

Clement of Rome,Ignatius 0f Antioch,polycarp of smyrna,st Heggesipus,St Justin Matyr,Ireneaus of lyons,clement of Alexandria,Origen of alexdria,tertullian,cyprian of carthage,Amrose of milan,Augustine of hippo,eusebius of ceserea, etc

So the bible is irrelevant, until you ask the so called apostolic fathers?

chukwudi44: What is read to you? The Bible or your church dogma?

bros this is a quote from St justin Matyr who died in the second century long before the bible was compiled.The bible did not even exist during his time.He is telling you how the early xtians worshipped in the second century.

Do not ascribe these quotations to me.These are the words of the early xtians you seek to know about.Google up "The first apology of St Justin Matyr"

Will you stop stop stop spewing gaffe, will you?

btoks: The Catholic Church does not worship Mary, this matter has been flogged a million times on this site. Please try to study the reverence given to the Blessed Virgin Mary and other saints by the Eastern Orthodox and Coptics once part of the Catholic Church. You might also learn that Martin Luther (Father of reformation) also had great reverence for our blessed mother. Also, if you could search for Sub Tuum Praesidium (oldest preserved hymn to Mary ca. 3rd Century) to understand why people have always given honour to Mary. I’m still awaiting a response to the question posed about the church St Ireanaeus was referring to and where that church is today.

But what Catholics give to Mary is among what they call Christian worship. Isnt that enough?

btoks:
I’m sure you’re better than this! This is anti- catholic rhetoric with absolutely no proof. Where is it recorded that Emperor Constantine was the 1st pope?!! Please don’t let the name ‘roman’ confuse you. The official name of the church is Catholic church also known as roman CC(long story). Have you read the Church Fathers’ letters from the 1st and 2nd centuries? Please let us know what happened to the church St Ireanaeus was referring to in Against Heresis III. Where is that church today? The early church had apostolic succession, so that church must exist. Please, also enlighten us on who the true Christians were that got persecuted.

I’ll throw in another Church Father – Bishop Cyprian of Carthage. What church was he referring to here in AD 253: "The Church is one, and as she is one, cannot be both within and without. For if she is with [the heretic] Novatian, she was not with [Pope] Cornelius. But if she was with Cornelius, who succeeded the bishop [of Rome], Fabian, by lawful ordination, and whom, beside the honor of the priesthood the Lord glorified also with martyrdom, Novatian is not in the Church; nor can he be reckoned as a bishop, who, succeeding to no one, and despising the evangelical and apostolic tradition, sprang from himself. For he who has not been ordained in the Church can neither have nor hold to the Church in any way" (Letters 69[75]:3).
So you will give me a link to an anti-catholic site for the origin of the Catholic Church??!! You can do better reseach than that

Hello, Constantine saying catholic is not the same meaning as Iraneaous did. constantines intentions were to merge all the religion in his empire, both pagan and Christianity. It is a ROMAN Universal Church, no denomination, no sect, all come together. It was to be a State Religion. Constantine never subtracted his own pagan religion from this. He himself was a pagan, even though he presided over an ecumenical council meeting. I hope am right? How can a pagan be there? that is why some call him a pope I guess.

The early xtians never was in Politics, and never meant to refer to a politically motivated religion as catholic.

Of course, that was the origin of many pagan beliefs that have now been christianized. So dont confuse constantine's catholic with the one said previously.

All wasting your time.

https://www.nairaland.com/1885089/gentiles-irrefutable-proof-modern-day-christianity

chukwudi44: St Ireneaus was a disciple of st Polycarp who in turn was tutored by the apostle John,thus st Ireneaus was not far from the true teachings of the apostle.St Augustine on the otherhand presided over the church council that decided the book of the bible.If. I am to chose between this men and one Don stewards your guess is as good as mine

And you know what Augustine said on "building the church" on Peter?

JMAN05:

And you know what Augustine said on "building the church" on Peter?

my brother after all your ranting,u still have not made any point out of it. pls communicate.

btoks: My good bros, this is not new teaching.this has been taught since the early days of Christianity. I gave you St Ireanaeus letter as an example -this whole concept is called the proto evangelium. Obviously some people don't believe it but it doesn't change its truth.
In fact Jesus called Mary 'woman' at Cana and Calvary which no Jewish child will call his mother.was Jesus revealing something here?

I do bible study in conjunction with the church's teaching as it is the pillar and foundation of truth. The personal interpretation of Scripture is guarded against (2peter1.20). What do you really think has happened with everyone thinking they can interpret the scriptures -DRUM ROLLLLLLL!!- A lot confusion and denominations not in communion.

Bros these issues have been debated for centuries and aren't knew.the CC teaching is clear all over the world, I need not reinvent the wheel. What church are you a member of?

So the Berom christians that always went home to compare and contrast Paul's teachings were doing wrong by studying the bible personally? hehehe, brother being spoonfed in Christianity is the lowest low in spiritual growth. this is why it's hard for you to actually discern the truth from the untruth.

When you say personal interpretation is wrong, then I shiver at your understanding of the word of God.. it's the spirit of God that gives understanding and there is a difference between carnal understanding and the one given by the Holy Spirit.

deeper truth comes when you study the word of God with the help of the holy spirit.

what exactly do you think the holy spirit is there for? those you line behind, where did their interpretation come from? was it not also through personal studies?

Bro, seek the truth so you shall know the truth.

Lastly, Jesus used woman multiple times to address Mary not because of Gen 3:15, he also used son of man multiple times for himself, was Jesus also son of man when SCRIPTURES says he came into Mary's womb via the holy spirit and not through any man.

The word of God should not be interpreted carnally bro, it has deeper meaning, make use of the holy spirit, ask and also read wide, not just within your catholic box, read outside your catholic box, you just might find out the deeper truth.

May God show you the light and understanding

honeric01:

So the Berom christians that always went home to compare and contrast Paul's teachings were doing wrong by studying the bible personally? hehehe, brother being spoonfed in Christianity is the lowest low in spiritual growth. this is why it's hard for you to actually discern the truth from the untruth.

When you say personal interpretation is wrong, then I shiver at your understanding of the word of God.. it's the spirit of God that gives understanding and there is a difference between carnal understanding and the one given by the Holy Spirit.

deeper truth comes when you study the word of God with the help of the holy spirit.

what exactly do you think the holy spirit is there for? those you line behind, where did their interpretation come from? was it not also through personal studies?

Bro, seek the truth so you shall know the truth.

Lastly, Jesus used woman multiple times to address Mary not because of Gen 3:15, he also used son of man multiple times for himself, was Jesus also son of man when SCRIPTURES says he came into Mary's womb via the holy spirit and not through any man.

The word of God should not be interpreted carnally bro, it has deeper meaning, make use of the holy spirit, ask and also read wide, not just within your catholic box, read outside your catholic box, you just might find out the deeper truth.

May God show you the light and understanding

make use of the holy spirit, ask and also read wide, not just within your catholic box, read outside your catholic box, you just might find out the deeper truth.
the deeper truth dat Mary should not be hornored or that Catholics don't worship christ.
my brother what's ur point.

nnatom:



make use of the holy spirit, ask and also read wide, not just within your catholic box, read outside your catholic box, you just might find out the deeper truth.
the deeper truth dat Mary should not be hornored or that Catholics don't worship christ.
my brother what's ur point.

The deeper truth about not worshipping or bowing down for graven image, mortal or a dead person.

That God is a jealous God

that Mary already got her reward on earth for being the path the Saviour came through

That God does not share his glory with mere mortal, if he had issues sharing his glory with Lucifer, who then is mary?

Lastly, that the images catholics worship are that of pagan gods and can be termed idol worshipping..

find out the truth about these images, who they really are and why they were shipped into catholism.

That you should not just sit and swallow what you are told when it comes to spiritual things, go out there, explore, read wide, compare and contrast, pray real prayers, ask God through his Son Jesus and not mary to show you the truth, invite the holy spirit into your heart for interpretation.

These are my points.

may God show us all the way and lead us right.

Shalom

Outta here.

JMAN05:

Hello, Constantine saying catholic is not the same meaning as Iraneaous did. constantines intentions were to merge all the religion in his empire, both pagan and Christianity. It is a ROMAN Universal Church, no denomination, no sect, all come together. It was to be a State Religion. Constantine never subtracted his own pagan religion from this. He himself was a pagan, even though he presided over an ecumenical council meeting. I hope am right? How can a pagan be there? that is why some call him a pope I guess.

The early xtians never was in Politics, and never meant to refer to a politically motivated religion as catholic.

Of course, that was the origin of many pagan beliefs that have now been christianized. So dont confuse constantine's catholic with the one said previously.

The problem with you is that you just hit at yiur keypad and type whatever comes to your mind withhout recourse to historical facts!!! Do you have any istorical proof of the thrash you just wrote up there? By proff I mean historical accounts from people who lived during that time and not you directing me to an anti-catholic lying website!!Constantine did not make catholic christianity a state religion he only legalised it and stopped the persecution of xtians.it was emperor theodosius in 380CE who make catholic christianity a state religion.Always get your facts right before comming here to spew rubish.

Furthermore constantine's edict of milan issued in 313CE did not merge xtianity and the roman pagan religiion.There is no historical proof of that rather what we have are conspiracy thgeories propounded by the likes of you

honeric01:

The deeper truth about not worshipping or bowing down for graven image, mortal or a dead person.

That God is a jealous God

that Mary already got her reward on earth for being the path the Saviour came through

That God does not share his glory with mere mortal, if he had issues sharing his glory with Lucifer, who then is mary?

Lastly, that the images catholics worship are that of pagan gods and can be termed idol worshipping..

find out the truth about these images, who they really are and why they were shipped into catholism.

That you should not just sit and swallow what you are told when it comes to spiritual things, go out there, explore, read wide, compare and contrast, pray real prayers, ask God through his Son Jesus and not mary to show you the truth, invite the holy spirit into your heart for interpretation.

These are my points.

may God show us all the way and lead us right.

Shalom

Outta here.

pls, do you really know d difference between honour and worship.

and if I may ask u, wht will u call the act of yorubas bowing down and lying flat on d floor for their Oba.

please get it right. catholics says they honour her not worship. what is your problem with that?

if u are having headache and u tell me u are having headache and me start telling u dat wht u are suffering for is not headache is stomach ache. how does it sound.

once again catholics honour her not worship. get dat into ur thick head and stop dis argument u protestant are always bringing up. u don't want to accept what they say and u want them to accept urs is that not Stupi dity. pls rest ur case and lets talk about d future of our country Nigeria jare.

[quote author=honeric01]

So the Berom christians that always went home to compare and contrast Paul's teachings were doing wrong by studying the bible personally? hehehe, brother being spoonfed in Christianity is the lowest low in spiritual growth. this is why it's hard for you to actually discern the truth from the untruth.

Protestants/anti-catholics always use this point but fail to understand the context. Following your point, how come the Tessalonians did not agree with Paul’s teaching after going through the same scriptures in the preceding verses Acts 17:1-10 but tried to put Paul into trouble?? I’m assuming you know the New Testament books were not completed at this point, so the Bereans were looking through the Old Testament (Thus I assume you’re an Old Testament Only guy??) If as easy as this I wonder why the majority of Jews never accepted Jesus as Messiah after all they’ve been reading the Torah for Centuries.
Also, which one of the Sola Scriptura Churches now holds the truth?

When you say personal interpretation is wrong, then I shiver at your understanding of the word of God.. it's the spirit of God that gives understanding and there is a difference between carnal understanding and the one given by the Holy Spirit.

These were not my words but you can argue that with St Peter. You did not actually address the actual passage.

deeper truth comes when you study the word of God with the help of the holy spirit.

what exactly do you think the holy spirit is there for? those you line behind, where did their interpretation come from? was it not also through personal studies?

I can tell you you’re taking things for granted. Please tell me how the Holy Spirit allowed you discern which books make up the bible and after that please tell us why your interpretation does not match the Calvinists, Lutherans, JWs, x number of Pentecostals, Orthodox etc. Please be sincere in your response.
Please understand the church’s teaching – It was given the authority to go out and preach the word, baptising etc. The Lord gave the apostles the power to bind and loose – basically to let us know what the correct teaching, interpretations. He said the spirit would come among them to guide the disciples to all truth (John 16)

Bro, seek the truth so you shall know the truth.

And you really think I have not? Does the truth lie in your church. Please let me know.

Lastly, Jesus used woman multiple times to address Mary not because of Gen 3:15, he also used son of man multiple times for himself, was Jesus also son of man when SCRIPTURES says he came into Mary's womb via the holy spirit and not through any man.

Son of man – used multiple times in the Old Testament, Jesus uses it in the new what’s your point. That Mary is not man( human being) or what?
You’ll have to tell me why Jesus used ‘Woman’ to address Mary. Please realise the term was not used in the modern sense of the word.

The word of God should not be interpreted carnally bro, it has deeper meaning, make use of the holy spirit, ask and also read wide, not just within your catholic box, read outside your catholic box, you just might find out the deeper truth

.I thought you are an adherent of Sola Scriptura, where else would I need to go? Bros you do not realise that I do study but I won’t get into that. you might think you're being guided by the Holy spirit in your interpretations but you certainly have your protestant lenses on when doing the interpretation.

May God show you the light and understanding

He certainly has and will continue to do so. Please step into any Catholic Church someday and observe the celebration of mass, you might learn a thing or two.

Food for thought - Is it a coincidence that many Staunch protestants pastors (e.g. Ulf Ekman, Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Deacon Alex Jones, Steve Ray, Tim Staples etc) have converted (others are converting - http://chnetwork.org/converts/) to the Catholic faith after reading widely and realising that they require an authority for what they are teaching others and also that the early church was not protestant. Your rebuttal would probably be “but catholics convert as well” – these tend to be the badly catechised ones. I’ll urge you do some studies into some of the people have mentioned to understand.

I know you’ve tried to downplay Mary’s role but please have a read of the Apostles Creed you might be surprised to find the Virgin Mary in there.

JMAN05:

But what Catholics give to Mary is among what they call Christian worship. Isnt that enough?

Catholics do not worship Mary for the n^th time. Please sincerely find out what Catholics, Orthodox, Coptics do with Mary.

JMAN05:

Hello, Constantine saying catholic is not the same meaning as Iraneaous did. constantines intentions were to merge all the religion in his empire, both pagan and Christianity. It is a ROMAN Universal Church, no denomination, no sect, all come together. It was to be a State Religion. Constantine never subtracted his own pagan religion from this. He himself was a pagan, even though he presided over an ecumenical council meeting. I hope am right? How can a pagan be there? that is why some call him a pope I guess.

The early xtians never was in Politics, and never meant to refer to a politically motivated religion as catholic.

Of course, that was the origin of many pagan beliefs that have now been christianized. So dont confuse constantine's catholic with the one said previously.

Ah Ok. So where is the church Ireaneaus was referring to?

btoks: Catholics do not worship Mary for the n^th time. Please sincerely find out what Catholics, Orthodox, Coptics do with Mary.

When ur encyclopedia identify what you give to Mary as worship, dont blame another person if he calls it worship.