Ubenedictus:

i didn't say they were, but "christ in me the hope of glory" is still a bible passage that puts christ in all christians.

Ok

Ubenedictus:
i can work with this, the question is "what do you think is the effect of Christ death?", why did the poor guy die? The bible seems to say he died to make us Children of God....but if we were already literal sons of God then why did the guy die?

To literally conquer death, and atone for our sins.

Ubenedictus:
that is ok...each man search for the "truth"...for many it isn't rocket science, for people like me the search may not be completed in my life time.

Yup

Ubenedictus:
ok, i think many ideas are packed in these sentences,...i believe every church, even every religion has some truth...

"Some" being the key word.

Ubenedictus:
but that is a bit different from your thought, you think it is easier to believe every idea is acceptable.

I take it you don't do sarcasm. I was being facetious.

Ubenedictus:
That is interesting, i'll ask you a few questions just to see how acceptable you think every idea is. do you think it is acceptable to kill all jew? Do you think it is acceptable for kill all twins?

Religious relativism is a crock of s***. Like I said:

texanomaly:
It is a concept that helps anyone argue their case more easily doesn't it? On the one hand it lets anyone "off the hook" no matter what they believe. On the other hand it is a bit of an oxymoron. Can everyone be right? I guess relatively they can.

No...they can't ALL be right. I still think many have "some" truth though.

Ubenedictus:
I guess my point is, where do you draw the line, isn't it just imposible for "jesus is lord" and "jesus is not lord" to both be acceptable?

It is not possible.

Ubenedictus:
Unless ofcuz u don't believe there is such a thing as objective truth...

I don't know what to believe anymore. Some days I think we are all just fvcked.

Ubenedictus:
interesting sincerity... To be sincere maybe i am a bit scared, i don't think the question is about what other think about what you believe...i think the question is what you think about what you believe ...

Yup

Ubenedictus:
If every opinion is acceptable then there is no real truth, objectivity is blurred, what is acceptable may very well be believable. So why do you think A and not B. Why Jesus and not muhammed?

How do you draw the line?

Who knows?

Tovot: True faith demands a lot of action and prayer. You should pray that GOD shows you and grants you the Grace to do the right things.

Thanks Tovie.

Ubenedictus:

Believing in one sole truth comes with the moral resposibility of teaching it and brands other opinions as errors, does this teaching make christains intolerant to other opinions and religions?

Blanket accusations are always inaccurate. I'm sure there are some who are intolerant, but there are many who aren't.

Ubenedictus:
Terms like arrogance and intelerance are not defined, i invite those commenting to attempt to define them with reference before arguing for or against.
I also note that neither arrogance or intolerance are condemned in this post.

So what do you think?

I already defined arrogance. Let's try intolerance.


Tolerate:
verb
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

It amazes me how many people think I must agree with them in order to be tolerant.


I really like the quote Scyllapatron posted by Mahatma Gandhi

"I like your Christ, I do not like your chiristians, your christians are so unlike your Christ"

Even though I disagree with including all followers of Christ, I get his gist. Many Christians can be the most hypocritical people on earth.

It is so easy to generalize, and bunch a group of people into what we want to see them as. Especially if we disagree with them some how.



Unfortunately it is human nature to fear what we don't understand. Many of us get so wrapped up in our fear, we begin to hate it. That is where intolerance and arrogance begin to infiltrate our hearts and our minds. It is the point where Christ-like attributes begin to wane, and fear and loathing take over.

The unknown causes fear. Fear causes intolerance. Intolerance causes arrogance.

Maybe this thread should have been titled; Does Ignorance and Stu.pidity cause Religious Intolerance and Arrogance.

texanomaly:

Actually just believing is not enough. Faith demands action.

To be honest I've become one of the "so called" Christians of late. I know all I should be doing and am failing miserably.

The actions you speak of are all about the Bible

Being a bad Christian, doesn't make anyone a non-Christian
And as an ex-Christian I know there's little Faith in christianity, it is Hope you all exercise and call faith

macof:
The actions you speak of are all about the Bible

Being a bad Christian, doesn't make anyone a non-Christian.

You are right. I was wrong. I thought I said "so called" Christian, not that they were "not" Christians. If I said "not" I was wrong.

macof:
And as an ex-Christian I know there's little Faith in christianity, it is Hope you all exercise and call faith

It would be silly of me to deny the bolded statement since it is Biblical.

Hebrews 11:1King James Version (KJV)

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


Even the dictionary definition basically says the same thing.

faith
[feyth]
noun

1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing:
faith in another's ability.

2.
belief that is not based on proof:
He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.


I do not deny that faith is based on hope.

texanomaly:
Blanket accusations are always inaccurate. I'm sure there are some who are intolerant, but there are many who aren't.

among those who are intolerant will you consider religious teaching as a contributing factor to this intolerance?

I already defined arrogance. Let's try intolerance.


Tolerate:
verb
allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.

It amazes me how many people think I must agree with them in order to be tolerant.


I really like the quote Scyllapatron posted by Mahatma Gandhi

"I like your Christ, I do not like your chiristians, your christians are so unlike your Christ"

Even though I disagree with including all followers of Christ, I get his gist. Many Christians can be the most hypocritical people on earth.

It is so easy to generalize, and bunch a group of people into what we want to see them as. Especially if we disagree with them some how.



Unfortunately it is human nature to fear what we don't understand. Many of us get so wrapped up in our fear, we begin to hate it. That is where intolerance and arrogance begin to infiltrate our hearts and our minds. It is the point where Christ-like attributes begin to wane, and fear and loathing take over.

The unknown causes fear. Fear causes intolerance. Intolerance causes arrogance.

Maybe this thread should have been titled; Does Ignorance and Stu.pidity cause Religious Intolerance and Arrogance.

interesting take.

Do you think religion may fan those flames of fear?

let me paint a picture not too far from every day life, a good portion of the american population see nothing wrong with abortion, the goverment requires that the employer cover the abortions of their employee (health insurance). This is an idea many christian disagree with. Would you say the Christian should be tolerant in this situation (allow the govt implement this policy even though the christian disagrees)?

The question may seem strange, i'm trying to ask, do you remain tolerant when the issue involves you? Will you allow such policies be implimented even though you disagree?
I realise the picture isn't a good one.

texanomaly:

Ok



To literally conquer death, and atone for our sins.

the bible seems to say there is an added layer to this, it talks of reconciling man and God and man to man... Making the beliver a heir of the Kingdom a child of GOD thru the spirit of adoption and a brother with Christ.

Do you accept those layers?

Yup



"Some" being the key word.



I take it you don't do sarcasm. I was being facetious.

it is hard to detect sacasm in written form.

Religious relativism is a crock of s***. Like I said:



No...they can't ALL be right. I still think many have "some" truth though.



It is not possible.




I don't know what to believe anymore. Some days I think we are all just fvcked.
Yup

Who knows?

we ar all fvcked doesn't cut it... I think it is irrational and irresponsible to accept been fvcked, knowlegde is within our grasp.... And i think you should try and iron out your thought. It was pretty hard for me to even establish a baseline on what you believe.

Give me a minute. I'm working on my reply. I'm not near my computer. It may take a while with my phone.

Ubenedictus:

among those who are intolerant will you consider religious teaching as a contributing factor to this intolerance?

Yes

Ubenedictus:
interesting take.

Do you think religion may fan those flames of fear?

Yes

Ubenedictus:
let me paint a picture not too far from every day life, a good portion of the american population see nothing wrong with abortion, the goverment requires that the employer cover the abortions of their employee (health insurance). This is an idea many christian disagree with. Would you say the Christian should be tolerant in this situation (allow the govt implement this policy even though the christian disagrees)?

The question may seem strange, i'm trying to ask, do you remain tolerant when the issue involves you? Will you allow such policies be implimented even though you disagree?
I realise the picture isn't a good one.

No...I would fight them. It is happening as we speak. The Supreme Court is starting to side with religion on some fronts. It's only a matter of time and perseverance. Look what "Hobby Lobby" accomplished.

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/supreme-court-hobby-lobby-decision

Ubenedictus:
the bible seems to say there is an added layer to this, it talks of reconciling man and God and man to man... Making the beliver a heir of the Kingdom a child of GOD thru the spirit of adoption and a brother with Christ.

Do you accept those layers?

There is no need for adoption. We are the literal spirit children of God. He is our father. Jesus is our brother.
It is the Abrahamic covenant we must be adopted into. Gentiles are not a part of that covenant.

Ubenedictus:
we ar all fvcked doesn't cut it... I think it is irrational and irresponsible to accept been fvcked, knowlegde is within our grasp.... And i think you should try and iron out your thought. It was pretty hard for me to even establish a baseline on what you believe.

You are right. I am still working some things out for myself. I guess my sarcasm may have gone a bit too far there. To be honest I was a somewhat frustrated. I am not in the habit of using the "F" word. Sorry.

It would be difficult to tell you everything I believe in a few short paragraphs.

This is probably a good place to mention that I don't completely agree that the Bible is translated correctly. It is also apparent, to me, that Man tends to translate it the way he sees fit. No one religion believes the same as any other. Even among Christians.

texanomaly: This is probably a good place to mention that I don't completely agree that the Bible is translated correctly. It is also apparent, to me, that Man tends to translate it the way he sees fit. No one religion believes the same as any other. Even among Christians.

That is because religious doctrines are only ideas nothing Divine
a universal divinity would manifest the way to everybody

Ubenedictus:

isn't is insultive to call someone a bigot?

Besides, i have read both pastor aio and texanomaly, i have never read them teach that one religion is as good as the other, (you can correct me if i am wrong) i think pastor in particular believes that all religion is a search for the divine and that salvation is "possible for all men of goodwill", i believe both.... But it will be a long strech to claim that they believe all religions are equal, heck that is very well against the holy books you say they believe.



On a thread on arrogance, it is so amazing you show a good level of it even without religion.

Calling a bigot a bigot is not an insult.

And you are yet to show the amazing level of arrogance that I displayed on this thread.


Do you need me to prove your bigotry? Hmmm?

TheBigUrban2:


Calling a bigot a bigot is not an insult.

And you are yet to show the amazing level of arrogance that I displayed on this thread.


Do you need me to prove your bigotry? Hmmm?

i know you want to. So you are free to "prove my bigotry".


Expecting an interesting post.

macof:

That is because religious doctrines are only ideas nothing Divine
a universal divinity would manifest the way to everybody

not exactly true. I have seen 10 different people discribe the same experience in 10 different ways.

Infact if a big angel were to appear in the sky with the banner "there is God", i'll expect that by the next week the number of different religion would simply iincrease by exponential 100.

Everybody will see the same thing differently.

texanomaly: This is probably a good place to mention that I don't completely agree that the Bible is translated correctly. It is also apparent, to me, that Man tends to translate it the way he sees fit. No one religion believes the same as any other. Even among Christians.

i donot know any christian who accepts all translations equally.

The bible is not always translated correctly.

texanomaly:

There is no need for adoption. We are the literal spirit children of God. He is our father. Jesus is our brother.
It is the Abrahamic covenant we must be adopted into. Gentiles are not a part of that covenant.

i'll address this later.

You are right. I am still working some things out for myself. I guess my sarcasm may have gone a bit too far there. To be honest I was a somewhat frustrated. I am not in the habit of using the "F" word. Sorry.

It would be difficult to tell you everything I believe in a few short paragraphs.

then i guess i use the "F" word more frequently compared to you, i have little problems with the "f" word unless when used in insult.

texanomaly:

Yes




Yes




No...I would fight them. It is happening as we speak. The Supreme Court is starting to side with religion on some fronts. It's only a matter of time and perseverance. Look what "Hobby Lobby" accomplished.

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/supreme-court-hobby-lobby-decision

ok....


Then you'll agree that in certain people and at certain time, christian doctrines and teachings may fuel intolerance and arrogance?

Ubenedictus:

i'll address this later.




then i guess i use the "F" word more frequently compared to you, i have little problems with the "f" word unless when used in insult.

Ummm...I'm feeling a little intimidated.

Ubenedictus:

ok....


Then you'll agree that in certain people and at certain time, christian doctrines and teachings may fuel intolerance and arrogance?

Sure

texanomaly:

Ummm...I'm feeling a little intimidated.

nah...
Don't be... This isn't a preaching thread, i won't attempt to convince you. I'll simply ask questions.

Ubenedictus:

nah...
Don't be... This isn't a preaching thread, i won't attempt to convince you. I'll simply ask questions.

. Cool. However, I am interested in what you believe. All these different takes on the same book fascinate me.

Hey skeeter

texanomaly:

There is no need for adoption. We are the literal spirit children of God. He is our father. Jesus is our brother.
It is the Abrahamic covenant we must be adopted into. Gentiles are not a part of that covenant.

It would be difficult to tell you everything I believe in a few short paragraphs.

how do you interprete this passage?

Ephesians 1:5 - Having predestinated us unto the adoption of sons (children) by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,


the seems to say that it is through Jesus Christ that we become Children of God and that the status is by adoption. What do you think?

These may seem a bit much, just take them one at a time.

Galatians 4:4-7 - But when the time had fully come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the
adoption of sons.

this seem to say the Christ was born that we might recieve adoption as sons.... Do we recieve what we already have? Why are we adopted if we are already natural sons? What do you think?


Romans 8:14-19 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Galatians 3:26 - For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:15 - For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have
received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
the first passage seems to say that it is those who have the holyspirit who are God's children not necessarily everyone, the 2nd one seems to say the son status doesn't come naturally but by faith, and the 3rd again say this sonship recieved by faith is an adopted sonship...or so i think, what do u think?

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his
name: so i think my question is are we just natural son or do we receive sonship by faith in christ Jesus?


Ok i'll allow you address these before i add more.

First, I have to say, "Why do I get involed in religious discussions/debates?" I hate them. I just want to believe what I believe and be left alone, but here I go again. Every time I say I will stay out of the religion section I get pulled back in by something I find interesting. SMH


The word “adoption” is used throughout the Scriptures to describe the relationship between God and His children.


Many Christians believe that they are God’s sons by adoption. But does the Bible really say that?


Where did the word “Adoption” come from? It was translated from the Greek word huiothesia. Huiothesia is a combination of two words. Those words are huios (“son, child, descendant”) and tithemi (“to place, put; to set, appoint, decided, arrange”). Huiothesia may mean "sonship" or "adoption".


To be honest, I don't care who believes what. I only care that "you/we" are strong enough to search, ponder and pray about what we believe and not just take everything we hear to be gospel without a thought.


Many words in the Bible have been translated incorrectly. Who's to say which words are correct and which are not? Which parts are allegory and which parts are to be taken literally?


One group says "this". Another group says "that". All say they have the "truth". In the end we must search, ponder and pray. Never just believe whatever is taught. I believe what I believe. You believe what you will. I'm good with that.



I was raised in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Many say Mormon. Some say LDS.

Throughout my childhood and young adulthood, I was a staunch believer in LDS teachings. I'm not sure I still believe all I was taught growing up, but there are many teaching my heart still clings to. I do know for sure that I believe this statement made by Robert L. Millet, former dean of religious education at Brigham Young University.



"Latter-day Saints do not believe that the answer to the world’s problems is ultimately to be found in more extravagant social programs or stronger legislation. Most or all of these ills have moral or spiritual roots. In the spirit of the brotherhood and sisterhood of humankind, is it not possible to lay aside theological differences long enough to address the staggering social issues in our troubled world? My recent interactions with men and women of various faiths have had a profound impact on me; they have broadened my horizons dramatically and reminded me — a sobering reminder we all need once in a while — that we are all sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father. We may never resolve our differences on the Godhead or the Trinity, on the spiritual or corporeal nature of Deity or on the sufficiency or inerrancy of the Bible, but we can agree that there is a God; that the ultimate transformation of society will come only through the application of moral and religious solutions to pressing issues; and that the regeneration of individual hearts and souls is foundational to the restoration of virtue in our communities and nations. One need not surrender cherished religious values or doctrines in order to be a better neighbor, a more caring citizen, a more involved municipal."

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/what-mormons-believe-about-jesus-christ



With this post, I'm done. I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll get drawn in again, but still, I tire O.

texanomaly:

"Latter-day Saints do not believe that the answer to the world’s problems is ultimately to be found in more extravagant social programs or stronger legislation. Most or all of these ills have moral or spiritual roots. In the spirit of the brotherhood and sisterhood of humankind, is it not possible to lay aside theological differences long enough to address the staggering social issues in our troubled world? My recent interactions with men and women of various faiths have had a profound impact on me; they have broadened my horizons dramatically and reminded me — a sobering reminder we all need once in a while — that we are all sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father. We may never resolve our differences on the Godhead or the Trinity, on the spiritual or corporeal nature of Deity or on the sufficiency or inerrancy of the Bible, but we can agree that there is a God; that the ultimate transformation of society will come only through the application of moral and religious solutions to pressing issues; and that the regeneration of individual hearts and souls is foundational to the restoration of virtue in our communities and nations. One need not surrender cherished religious values or doctrines in order to be a better neighbor, a more caring citizen, a more involved municipal."


http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/what-mormons-believe-about-jesus-christ



With this post, I'm done. I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll get drawn in again, but still, I tire O.

While not ignoring what you wrote I have to say tyhis quote is one of the best I've come across. I'll try and remember it because it is profound

UyiIredia:

While not ignoring what you wrote I have to say this quote is one of the best I've come across. I'll try and remember it because it is profound

I think so too.

UyiIredia:

While not ignoring what you wrote I have to say tyhis quote is one of the best I've come across. I'll try and remember it because it is profound

Stop being a white knight.

texanomaly:

I think so too.

Be very careful with Uyi.

logicboy01:


Stop being a white knight.

Leave him alone.

logicboy01:

Be very careful with Uyi.

Why?