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Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by malvisguy212: 9:11am On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso:all what you wrote are lies and misinterpretation of the word of God.JESUS SAY"BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS,I AM" This mean he exist at the beginning and he use the title God use when He called moses,God say I AM THAT I AM,now compered it to what jesus say"before abraham was I AM"in other word,before the world begin I AM" the quran called jesus the word of God and spirit from God and bible called him son of God,how do you reconcile it? |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Abdulsalam20(m): 9:45am On Oct 11, 2014 |
malvisguy212:hypocrisy all this have been explained to you before but because you never want to listen to the truth........ AND AM STILL EXPECTING YOUR RESPONSE OOOOOOO MR ANTIHRIST |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 10:18am On Oct 11, 2014 |
malvisguy212: my aim was to correct what you said. I never misinterpreted the bible. you quoted out of the context and I brought the context yet am the one lying. before abraham was, I am is another verse wrongly used to support the didvinity of jesus. I will also correct this as soon as possible. and talking of reconciling verses , you shouldn't even go there cos I really dont see how we can reconcile so many verses following your context |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 10:31am On Oct 11, 2014 |
I like malvisguy212 for this, when he creates topics like this, he gives opportunity to fellow christians to learn as so many things are been exposed. … even though he might not want to learn at thesame time he saves us the stress of creating the threads . |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Abdulsalam20(m): 10:33am On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso: jazakumullahu khairan you are right |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Larow(m): 10:33am On Oct 11, 2014 |
You muslims should stop argueing a clear point! Jesus is clearly God! Your quran clearly acknowledged him as the word of God. How then did God create the world? Its through his word! The question now is ; is d word a creation or a creator! The word is the CREATOR ! Meaning: Jesus is the creator and obviously the LORD of all! Chikena!!!! |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Abdulsalam20(m): 10:36am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Larow:i can see you are a clown ask malvisguy212 who created the thread he don run away AND IF YOU REALLY WANT TO LEARN READ FROM THE IRST PAGE YOU WILL KNOW CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A RELIGION THEY ARE JUST AN ANTICHRIST AND ANY OF THE POST WE POST THAT YOU FEEL ITS WRONG JUST QUOTE IT AND PROVE IT WRONG BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE DONT KNOW THE DEFINITION OF LIE? LIE IS WHAT WE CAN PROVE WRONG SO IF YOU CANT PROE IT WRONG THEN IT IS REALITY |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 10:41am On Oct 11, 2014 |
"Before Abraham was, l am," John 8:58 is one of the most misused verses of the Bible. Because Jesus in that verse says "Before Abraham was, I am," two implications, one unnecessary, and the other false, are drawn from that verse. The unnecessary implication is that since Jesus existed before Abraham that means he existed always. This is a preconceived notion that people force into the text. "Before Abraham" does not mean "always". Melchezidek in the Bible is shown to have existed before Abraham (Hebrews 7:3). Does that mean that Melchezidek is God? Obviously, we cannot take a created being as God. The false implication is that Jesus by saying "I am" was uttering God's name which God declared to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15. The Bible is confusing On this Point because it gives three versions of God's calling Moses, and the three versions do not agree with each other. The best that can be said is that the name of God announced there is Yahweh. Compare the three versions below: 1. The Yahwist version (Exod 6:28 - 7:7) says nothing about the name of God being revealed because for the Yahwist editors the name Yahweh was already known among the Israelites. They say that this name was being used since the time of Enosh, the grandson of Adam (Genesis 4:26). 2. The priestly version (Exod 6:2-13) contradicts this by saYing that this name was not known before (Exod 6:2). God's command to Moses here is So say to the Israelites, "lam Yahweh ..." (Exod 6:6), and Moses repeated this to them (6:9). 3. But in the Elohist version (Exod 3:13-22) God's instruction to Moses is different. This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "I am has sent me to you" (Exod 3: 15). It would appear from this that God's name is "I am," but it is clear upon careful study that in this passage the Elohist scribes substituted "I am" for "Yahweh" in the same instruction given in (Exod 6:6). |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 10:42am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Abdulsalam20:wa iyyakum ya akhi |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Larow(m): 10:46am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Abdusalam20! What are you trying to say? Dat am wrong? Didn't the holy quran call Jesus the word? Go back and read my former post and study your quran! After this, come back and talk. |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Rilwayne001: 10:47am On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso: Masterful exegesis |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 10:48am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Continuation Even if God really did announce his name to be "I am" as in Exodus, chapter 3, verse 15, this still does not prove that Jesus applied the name "I am" to himself. Jesus never said his name is "I am". He is quoted as saying “Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58). If "I am" is Jesus name, then we should be able to replace the "I am" in this passage with "Jesus," since these are both names of Jesus. The passage would then read as follows: "Before Abraham was, Jesus." This, of course, makes no sense because the idea that Jesus called himself "I am" is not there in the text, but it is someone's own interpretation forced into the text. Notice that we would have no difficulty replacing the "I am" in Exodus 3:15 with either "God" or "Yahweh", as follows: This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "God has sent me to you" (Exod 3:15). This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "Yahweh has sent me to you" (Exod 3: 15). |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Abdulsalam20(m): 11:00am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Larow: the trash you posted have already been answered go back and read from page 2 You are drawing your own conclusions here. This is the correct translation of that verse. (171. O People of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah except the truth. Al-Masih `Isa, son of Maryam, was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam and a spirit from ﴿created by﴾ Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three!'' Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One God, hallowed be He above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.) What is meant by "His Word" is explained in this verse: “It is He Who gives Life and Death: when He desires a matter, He says to it: ‘Be’ and it is!” (Qur'an 40:68) Everything is from Allah therefore saying that the spirit of Jesus (peace be upon him) is from Allah is merely stating that Allah created everything (including the spirit of Jesus Christ). The translation of the first verse is very simple and easy to understand unless one has got other motives to play around with it's meaning. just try to read bacckward jesus is never a son of GOD he is a prophet |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Larow(m): 11:16am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Abdusamlam40! Are u suffering from cataract? What other way do you want to use in translating this;THE WORD OF GOD (Kalimatullah) Jesus is also called "His word" in Surah 4:171, meaning the Word of God. In Surah 3:45 we also read that the angels said to Mary "Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary". More than once in the Qur'an, therefore, Jesus is called God's Word. Or , was mohammed sleeping when he documented this? |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 11:17am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Larow:there is a comprehensive reply on this by Dr Zakir Naik. even though this issue has been trashed severally but for the sake of new nlanders and guests, i would address this again 1. The Qur’an mentions Chapter 3 verse 45"Behold! The angels said: O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus. The son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those Nearest to Allah. Jesus (pbuh) is referred in the Qur’an as a word from Allah and not as ‘the word of Allah’. "A word" of Allah means a message of Allah. If a person is referred to as "a word" from Allah, it means that he is a Messenger or a Prophet of Allah. 2. THE TITLE OF A PROPHET (PBUH) DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT EXCLUSIVELY BELONGS TO THAT PROPHET (PBUH) Different titles are given to different prophets (pbut). Whenever a title is given to a prophet (pbuh), it does not necessarily mean that the other prophets do not have the same characteristic or quality. For e.g. Prophet Abraham (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Khaleelullah, a friend of Allah. This does not indicate that all the other Prophets (pbuh) were not the friends of Allah. Prophet Moses (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Kaleemullah, indicating that God spoke to him. This does not mean that God did not speak to others. Similarly when Jesus (pbuh) is referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah, "a word from Allah", it does not mean that the other Prophets were not "the word," of Allah. 3. JOHN THE BAPTIST (PBUH) IS ALSO CALLED "A WORD" OF ALLAH Yahya (pbuh) i.e. John the Baptist (pbuh) is also referred to in the Qur’an as Kalimatullah i.e. a word of Allah in Surah Ali ‘Imran, Chapter 3, verses 38-39 "There did Zakariya Pray to his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure: for Thou art He that heareth prayer! While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels called unto him: "Allah doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the truth of a Word from Allah, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a Prophet – of the (goodly) company of the righteous." [Al-Qur’an 3:39] 4. JESUS (PBUH) REFERRED AS RUHULLAH – A SPIRIT OF ALLAH Jesus (pbuh) also never referred to as Ruhullah "a spirit of Allah" but as a spirit from Allah in Surah Nisa Chapter 4 verse 171 "O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Jesus Christ the son of Mary was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah, And His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs." [Al-Qur’an 4:171] 5. SPIRIT OF ALLAH IS BREATHED IN EVERY HUMAN BEING A spirit from Allah does not indicate that Jesus (pbuh) is God. The Qur’an mentions in several places that Allah breathed into the human beings "His Spirit" in Surah Al-Hijr, chapter 15 verse 29 in Surah Sajdah, chapter 32 verse 9 "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him." [Al-Qur’an 15:29] "But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!" [Al-Qur’an 32:9] |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Larow(m): 11:25am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Moreover! Who's is saying that Jesus is the son of God! I don't have the tym to proove that to you now, all I said in my post was that JESUS himsef is LORD going by the quranic and biblical decription of him as the word of God from where I infered that God created the world by the word and Jesus being the word is authomatically the creator AKA God!!! Get that first into your block head b4 any further explanation! |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 11:26am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Continuation Even if God really did announce his name to be "I am" as in Exodus, chapter 3, verse 15, this still does not prove that Jesus applied the name "I am" to himself. Jesus never said his name is "I am". He is quoted as saying “Before Abraham was, I am" (John 8:58). If "I am" is Jesus name, then we should be able to replace the "I am" in this passage with "Jesus," since these are both names of Jesus. The passage would then read as follows: "Before Abraham was, Jesus." This, of course, makes no sense because the idea that Jesus called himself "I am" is not there in the text, but it is someone's own interpretation forced into the text. Notice that we would have no difficulty replacing the "I am" in Exodus 3:15 with either "God" or "Yahweh", as follows: This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "God has sent me to you" (Exod 3:15). This is what you are to say to the Israelites. "Yahweh has sent me to you" (Exod 3: 15). Another point worth paying attention to is this: the writer of the fourth gospel never believed Jesus to be God. This proves that Jesus never said he is God. Otherwise, how could it be possible that the author of the fourth gospel never knew it? He believed that the Father is the only true God, and that Jesus is the Christ and messenger of God (see John 17:3). Furthermore, a distinction which is present in the Greek version of the Bible is lost from the English versions. In the Septuagint Greek version of the Old Testament, the phrase translated "I am" is "ho on "in the Greek. If the author of the fourth Gospel wanted to show his readers that Jesus repeated the phrase, he would no doubt have quoted Jesus as saying, "Before Abraham was, ho on." But he did not. Instead, he quoted Jesus as saying, "Before Abraham was, ego eimi." Readers of his Greek manuscript, then, would have seen that Jesus' statement in John 8:58 is different from God's statement in Exodus 3: 15. And this, of course, is what the author ofthe fourth Gospel intended. Furthermore, the Syriac Peshitta version ofthe Bible, one of the old versions of the Bible, reads in John8:58, "Before Abraham was, I was. " Was this changed from what the author wrote? How can we know? Suppose this was the original phrase, then those who rest their case on the common rendering will be disappointed on the Day of Judgment. Why not rest our case on a much more plain verse of the Bible - one in which Jesus clearly differentiates between himself and God? Take this one for example, where Jesus says to his enemies: You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God" (John 8:40). Who is Jesus then? A man who told the truth which he heard from God. In other words, he was a messenger of God. When a clear statement like this is issued from the lips of Jesus, why wrangle with the passages that are not so clear, and try to twist them to mean the opposite of what Jesus has been saying in other clear verses all along? Anyone who wishes to convince himself/herself that Jesus is God should look for clear evidence in the Bible to show that Jesus is God. But the clear evidence is to the contrary. The Bible teaches again and again that Jesus is not God, but a Servant of God (e.g. Matthew 12:18). In the very next chapter of John, chapter 9, v.35, Jesus declares that he is the son of man (RSV). And anyone who knows the Bible as the Israelites to whom Jesus spoke will know that a son of man cannot be God. The Bible declares that God is neither a man nor a son of man (Numbers 23: 19). How can he be called clean that is born of a woman? Behold even the moon , and it shineth not: yea, the stars are not pure in his sight . How much is man, that is a worm? and the son of man , which is a worm? Gob 25:4-6) |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 11:30am On Oct 11, 2014 |
Rilwayne001:Thanks brother . All credits go to Brother Shabir Ally. may Allah reward him and all of us abundantly 3 Likes |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Larow(m): 11:31am On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso:STORY STORY!!! ONCE UPON A TIME!!! TIME TIME!!! |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Larow(m): 11:40am On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso:its so painful to know tjat most followers of this man called mohammed are block headed! How many people can come out openly in the biblical or quranic history to claim that he existed before abraham? Isn't that enough to show the divinity of such a person? Even your Mohammed cant!!! I know u are an english language scholar! I don c u!!!!! But next tym, think before typing!!! |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 11:51am On Oct 11, 2014 |
The truth is there for everyone to see. @ larow May Allah open your eyes to the truth. malvisguy212. thanks for giving us the opportunity to expose the truth. |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Larow(m): 12:34pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
Allah isn't the name of my own God!!! |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Emusan(m): 3:33pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
Rilwayne001: I've prepared answer to your question but I still want you to swallow up the word 'morons' in your first post because you can't expect a MAN LIKE me to reply to a post that the author lacks public morality. |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by malvisguy212: 5:06pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso:i repeat,all what you wrote is rubbish,misinterpret bible verse.you have know idea who you are chatin with.now read and let set your mind free. John8. 52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon- possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?” 54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” 57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!” 58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds. JESUS SAY ABRAHAM REJOICE TO SEE HIS DAYS,HE SAW IT AND WAS GLAD, what dos this mean? Jesus is the spirit of God walking in realm of human. Please if you cant answer my qustion, dont reply. Aguing with you guys is a wast of time. |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by malvisguy212: 5:12pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso:read the op and read the coment,up till now,non of you guys has answer my qustion,how do you reconcile this word? Spirit of God,word of God and son of God? |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by malvisguy212: 5:22pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso:the natural man is unstable in his way,you cannot interprete the word of God. Verily, verily - This is an expression used only in John. It is a strong affirmation denoting particularly the great importance of what was about to be affirmed. See the notes at John 3:5. Before Abraham was - Before Abraham lived. I am - The expression I am, though in the present tense, is clearly designed to refer to a past time. Thus, in Psalm 90:2, "From everlasting to everlasting thou art God." Applied to God, it denotes continued existence without respect to time, so far as he is concerned. We divide time into the past, the present, and the future. The expression, applied to God, denotes that he does not measure his existence in this manner, but that the word by which we express the present denotes his continued and unchanging existence. Hence, he assumes it as his name, "I AM," and "I AM that I AM," Exodus 3:14. Compare Isaiah 44:6; Isaiah 47:8. There is a remarkable similarity between the expression employed by Jesus in this place and that used in Exodus to denote the name of God. The manner in which Jesus used it would strikingly suggest the application of the same language to God. The question here was about his pre-existence. The objection of the Jews was that he was not 50 years old, and could not, therefore, have seen Abraham. Jesus replied to that that he existed before Abraham. As in his human nature he was not yet 50 years old, and could not, as a man, have existed before Abraham, this declaration must be referred to another nature; and the passage proves that, while he was a man, he was also endowed with another nature existing before Abraham, and to which he applied the term (familiar to the Jews as expressive of the existence of God) I AM; and this declaration corresponds to the affirmation of John Joh 1:1, that he was in the beginning with God, and was God. This affirmation of Jesus is one of the proofs on which John relies to prove that he was the Messiah John 20:31, to establish which was the design of writing this book. |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by malvisguy212: 5:23pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso: |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by malvisguy212: 5:23pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso:the natural man is unstable in his way,you cannot interprete the word of God. Verily, verily - This is an expression used only in John. It is a strong affirmation denoting particularly the great importance of what was about to be affirmed. See the notes at John 3:5. Before Abraham was - Before Abraham lived. I am - The expression I am, though in the present tense, is clearly designed to refer to a past time. Thus, in Psalm 90:2, "From everlasting to everlasting thou art God." Applied to God, it denotes continued existence without respect to time, so far as he is concerned. We divide time into the past, the present, and the future. The expression, applied to God, denotes that he does not measure his existence in this manner, but that the word by which we express the present denotes his continued and unchanging existence. Hence, he assumes it as his name, "I AM," and "I AM that I AM," Exodus 3:14. Compare Isaiah 44:6; Isaiah 47:8. There is a remarkable similarity between the expression employed by Jesus in this place and that used in Exodus to denote the name of God. The manner in which Jesus used it would strikingly suggest the application of the same language to God. The question here was about his pre-existence. The objection of the Jews was that he was not 50 years old, and could not, therefore, have seen Abraham. Jesus replied to that that he existed before Abraham. As in his human nature he was not yet 50 years old, and could not, as a man, have existed before Abraham, this declaration must be referred to another nature; and the passage proves that, while he was a man, he was also endowed with another nature existing before Abraham, and to which he applied the term (familiar to the Jews as expressive of the existence of God) I AM; and this declaration corresponds to the affirmation of John Joh 1:1, that he was in the beginning with God, and was God. This affirmation of Jesus is one of the proofs on which John relies to prove that he was the Messiah John 20:31, to establish which was the design of writing this book. |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Abdulsalam20(m): 8:07pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
malvisguy212:...you should rather say u dont want to listen to the truth because it has been answered but i can quote back of you like |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by Abdulsalam20(m): 8:13pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
Emusan:i'm still waiting for ur response |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by udatso: 8:33pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
malvisguy212:i have read the op and its really not worth replying to. different words and personality of certain people mean different things for both faiths(Islam and Christianity ). for example when you call jesus (pbuh), as a muslim i see a prophet and messenger of Allah but a christian on the other hand sees a God. how can you go to the quran and quote verses to prove that in islam only Allah deserves the title Lord and then you go to the bible to quote verses where david and elizabeth addresses jesus as lord and then conclude that with respect to the bible the quran proves or shows that jesus was worshipped as God. Are you insane? Give us evidence where the quran shows that they did. Atleast let there be some level of maturity in your lies if you cant stop it. The fact that you are trying to force your teachings into a different faith from yours is not only dubious but mischievous. sam shamoun who has earned himself a status of international liar always comes up with distorted and spurious claims and i thought by now you guys should have learnt that his nefarious acts should be totally ignored 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: The Quran Testifies: David And Elizabeth Worshiped Jesus As God! by BraveGuy: 9:16pm On Oct 11, 2014 |
udatso: If the op is not worth replying to, then why did not ignore it, but still went ahead to make your rubbish comments ... ... ... do you think at all? If you don't want me to start quoting all those satanic verses from your quoran, shut up! Which of your so-called scholars have been bold enough to challenge Sam Shamoun in a debate? They are always running all over the place, making spurious claims that betray nothing but different degrees of inferiority complexes. When did your Quran's Allah become equal with the Almighty God? |
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