DISCLAIMER: I'm not a feminist, I love men and I absolutely love my bra - I'm not about to burn it for anything. I just believe in fairness and equality.

This will be kind of a long post because it was inspired by another post I had started where I was asking men for r/ship advice. You don't need deep background about that post because this is a general question and not about me and my ex. To sum up what the men said, I apparently have an ego (because I stand up for myself I guess) and there seemed to be a general consensus that I needed to put extra effort (as in more than the guy) in the r/ship. Below I will post one of the comments that was made to me and my response to the commentor. I would love to hear your take.

Fembleez1:


.....just learn to be humble and submissive(tho not that u shouldn't have a say but respect your guy),......

learn to say "I'm sorry" when you are wrong and "please,am not offended" when he is wrong,

you both shouldn't be angry at the same time cause it will add fuel to the fire burning in both of you, when he is boiling,be calm,when you are boiling(which I am not advising you to always boil),let him be calm

First off, I appreciate your concern for me and you taking time to read my post and advise me - thank you sincerely. BUT you made jaw drop!!! You made points that deserve a whole new thread!!!

1) Humble and submissive. SUBMISSIVE?!?!? Wow, what a HEAVY word!!! Why should I be submissive? He's not my master he is just my partner. I have no problem allowing a man LEAD but he cannot LORD/MASTER over me. I am not a submissive kind of woman and I was never taught to be submissive. Women in my culture are not expected to be submissive or to prostrate to a man so sorry that is a foreign concept to me. Men are meant to be leaders of the home not lords or masters.

2) I don't understand why I keep being blamed. All the r/ship burden has been put on me and it seems you guys expect the woman to put in 350% effort and the man only 25% Yet, I'm supposed to allow this man to lord over me?

A) I've said over and over again in order to end the fights I used to just apologise but I now realize that was a mistake because it weakened my position and he never got the chance to see his errors and basically the burden of the r/ship fell on me. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong but I will never again apologise just to calm a man down.
B) If I am offended I will not hide it. What good is it to hide it? Aren't r/ships supposed to be about honesty? Hiding my offense is like ignoring a deep wound. The negative emotions will fester and resentment and hate will build up and a toxic r/ship will grow. I'm sorry but my emotional well-being is much more important to me than being in a r/ship. I'd much rather release my feelings and say my piece than allow poison to infect my soul. What good is there to be in a r/ship and be MISERABLE when I can be much more happier single?

3) Yes, I will give you the first part of your statement. It is not advisable for two people to boil at the same time and this does not only relate to a romantic r/ship. But the rest of your statement again, it seems you expect the woman to shoulder all the burden. I must work hard to please him and make sure he calms down? What about me? Why doesn't he try to keep me happy and calm? I matter too, don't I?

Most be submissive.....i don't agree with that.

I personally feel "Submissiveness" is NOT like being a "slave" to a man! That should NEVER be!

To me, the most important thing is "mutual respect" as accorded to each gender naturally!

Being submissive in a relationship is a must for me. We can't always have our way all the time.

It is imperative that both partners are submissive to each other.

I find it strange when some men insist that the lady is submissive while they are free to do as they please.

If a man is unwilling to be submissive, then I see it as unreasonable to demand submissiveness from the lady.

On a very personal note, I can't imagine myself being with a lady who would accept 'crap' from me without voicing out all in the name of being submissive.

Bf/gf relationship -not all the time

Marriage -yes,well it depends if they are Christians

I am vry submissive to my bf...wen he says do,i do...wen he says dnt,i obey...
He confessd to me one day dat he loves me so much cos am submissive & respectful

kadas01:
I personally feel "Submissiveness" is NOT like being a "slave" to a man! That should NEVER be!

That's exactly what submissive is. The act of submission is to have someone lord over you. It is a power relationship where the lord has all the power and the submissive has none. The fact that those guys also expected me to work harder on the r/ship than my bf and to make sure I don't upset him reinforces the slave-master relationship.

I just don't understand how you guys justify this kind of r/ship in your mind. What makes you think it's right/fair/just?

Midehi:
I am vry submissive to my bf...wen he says do,i do...wen he says dnt,i obey...
He confessd to me one day dat he loves me so much cos am submissive & respectful

Are you happy being controlled?

DieeDiee:


Are you happy being controlled?

Its nt control cos most of d do's & dont are things dat will favour me & @ d end tankin him

DieeDiee, apparently you don't known the meaning of submission, neither do you understand the concept.

I was amazed when you stated that to submit to a man means you have made him a Lord/master. Yet, you went ahead to call him a leader. Are you not meant to follow the lead of a leader? Is following not submission?

It really baffles me how many so called "independent" women disregard the authority of their man, but actually have no problem being floor mats to their male bosses at work.

Gurl, the duty of a wife is to submit to the man, just as the duty of the husband is to love the woman.

If you really love him, you will submit because that is how a man understands that you love him. And please, never make the mistake of marrying a man you cannot honor or respect (this is what submission entails).

Midehi:

Its nt control cos most of d do's & dont are things dat will favour me & @ d end tankin him

If you are happy and satisfied then good for you babe

kadas01:
I personally feel "Submissiveness" is NOT like being a "slave" to a man! That should NEVER be!

To me, the most important thing is "mutual respect" as accorded to each gender naturally!

All said!

Midehi:

Its nt control cos most of d do's & dont are things dat will favour me & @ d end tankin him

You are indeed a wise woman.

Wise women build their homes.
Wise women have influence.
Wise women are treasured by their men.
The mark of a wise women is in understanding how much power you weild through the art of submission.

Evina:


You are indeed a wise woman.

Wise women build their homes.
Wise women have influence.
Wise women are treasured by their men.
The mark of a wise women is in understanding how much power you weild through the art of submission.

tnx for dat

DieeDiee:


If you are happy and satisfied then good for you babe

Yea

This should be on FP

Evina:
DieeDiee, apparently you don't known the meaning of submission, neither do you understand the concept.

I was amazed when you stated that to submit to a man means you have made him a Lord/master. Yet, you went ahead to call him a leader. Are you not meant to follow the lead of a leader? Is following not submission?

It really baffles me how many so called "independent" women disregard the authority of their man, but actually have no problem being floor mats to their male bosses at work.

Gurl, the duty of a wife is to submit to the man, just as the duty of the husband is to love the woman.

If you really love him, you will submit because that is how a man understands that you love him. And please, never make the mistake of marrying a man you cannot honor or respect (this is what submission entails).

A leader guides he does not control. That is why at work you will have a meeting and the issues are discussed by the whole even though final decision rests with the manager. A good leader is one that considers everyone's input before making a final decision.

Submission by its nature implies loss of will on your part as you bend to the other's will and compromise is not even a consideration. Because submission is a power game the honour and respect you speak of is "forced" from you (I use the word "force" loosely) not earned. When you submit to someone you give away your power. Submission can be voluntary like @midehi but it doesn't make it any less of a power relationship.

To honour and respect someone it is not necessary to submit to them. You love, honour and respect your siblings and friends don't you? Do you submit to them?

Dictionary definition for submission:

sub·mis·sion (s b-m sh n)
n.
1.
a. The act of [b]submitting to the
power [/b]of another: [I]"Oppression
that cannot be overcome does
not give rise to revolt but to
submission" (Simone Weil).[/i]

b. The state of having submitted.
See Synonyms at surrender.

2. The state of being submissive or
compliant; meekness.

3.
a. The act of submitting
something for consideration.

b. Something so submitted: read
three fiction manuscripts and
other such submissions.

DieeDiee:


Are you happy being controlled?

Women like you miss it and end up being single and/or miserable


If you won't obey your man at home, he will easily find a mistress who will

My wife is submissive financially, sexually, etc etc

I don't boss her around, I tell her what I want that is morally right...


She obeys because she is a good Christian woman...I think Muslim women are even more submissive

This feminist movement all of you are carrying like calabash will be what will frustrate you...

It's not for wholesome African women.

Imagine I call my wife and tell her to polish my brass handle, if she is not in the mood, it's one thing but if she is defiant, my side chick will shout hallelujah because she knows awoof season has come again.

Better to wake up than dull.

How can I spend millions to marry you, love and cherish you, then you will now be forming feminist movement. Go and marry he movement nor ni.

DieeDiee:


That's exactly what submissive is. The act of submission is to have someone lord over you. It is a power relationship where the lord has all the power and the submissive has none. The fact that those guys also expected me to work harder on the r/ship than my bf and to make sure I don't upset him reinforces the slave-master relationship.

I just don't understand how you guys justify this kind of r/ship in your mind. What makes you think it's right/fair/just?

It is a very big "error" for any man to think he has "the right to lord" over any woman in a relationship! "Ignorance and wrong upbringing" is a major cause of this societal "anomaly"! A relationship is naturally suppose to be "mutual"! Both parties contribute "equally" to make it work! At least, there should be a "healthy balance"!

Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the balenciaga store and honeymoon yearly in Seychelles, Maldives, etc

DieeDiee:
Dictionary definition for submission:

sub·mis·sion (s b-m sh n)
n.
1.
a. The act of [b]submitting to the
power [/b]of another: [I]"Oppression
that cannot be overcome does
not give rise to revolt but to
submission" (Simone Weil).[/i]

b. The state of having submitted.
See Synonyms at surrender.

2. The state of being submissive or
compliant; meekness.

3.
a. The act of submitting
something for consideration.

b. Something so submitted: read
three fiction manuscripts and
other such submissions.

My sister what can I say? Seeking for guidance in matters of magnitude is a very bitter pill for most of us fellows to take.

lilmax:
This should be on FP

What's FP?

@scribble: the part where you are like I'll end up bitter and miserable made me laugh - Don't worry hun, I won't I promise. In fact, I've turned down 6 marriage proposals so there are men out there who love the "feminist" me

Correction: I'm not a feminist (see disclaimer) I'm just a proponent of equality and justice.

It's very dangerous for your wife to submit to submit to you financially ... What happens when you leave her for your side chick? And that sexual submission sounds dangerously like spousal rape (or very close to it) ...

DieeDiee:


A leader guides he does not control. That is why at work you will have a meeting and the issues are discussed by the whole even though final decision rests with the manager. A good leader is one that considers everyone's input before making a final decision.

Submission by its nature implies loss of will on your part as you bend to the other's will and compromise is not even a consideration. Because submission is a power game the honour and respect you speak of is "forced" from you (I use the word "force" loosely) not earned. When you submit to someone you give away your power. Submission can be voluntary like @midehi but it doesn't make it any less of a power relationship.

To honour and respect someone it is not necessary to submit to them. You love, honour and respect your siblings and friends don't you? Do you submit to them?

You have further affirmed my earlier observation that you do not fully grasp the art of submission.

Let me ask you this: in your relationship with friends and siblings, do you always choose to have your way? Or do you respect their opinions, let some things slide, make sacrifices for their happiness? If you have, you have submitted to them.

Being submissive doesnt mean loss of will, it is your willingness to yield to the will of another.

I understand that weak, insecure men will mistake submissiveness for vulnerability and take advantage. (I guess this is what you have a problem with).This doesn't make the art of submission stupid or wrong, it just makes those who do not get it and try to abuse it, ignorant.

@ Evina: please look at the dictionary definition I posted. Submission is impossible without a power relationship and it paves the way for abuse because it gives it an excuse. The degree of power exercised depends on how sadistic and submissive the two players are. So your honey may seem loving and sweet but it does not take away the fact you are being controlled. And how small does one's IQ or moral compass have to be that they need another human being to tell them what's right and what's wrong, what to do and what not to do? That is very condescending mentality. What makes a man a better moral compass than me? The thing between his legs?


With friends, siblings and even parents there's always compromise. In a submissive relationship there is none because the power is always concentrated on the one. (Btw parent-children relationships can be submissive too and those are abusive relationships (not necessarily physical can be emotional))

DieeDiee:
@ Evina: please look at the dictionary definition I posted. Submission is impossible without a power relationship and it paves the way for abuse because it gives it an excuse. The degree of power exercised depends on how sadistic and submissive the two players are. So your honey may seem loving and sweet but it does not take away the fact you are being controlled. And how small does one's IQ or moral compass have to be that they need another human being to tell them what's right and what's wrong, what to do and what not to do?

With friends, siblings and even parents there's always compromise. In a submissive relationship there is none because the power is always concentrated on the one. (Btw parent-children relationships can be submissive too and those are abusive relationships (not necessarily physical can be emotional))

And you just keep affirming my observations.

Anyways, it's your life, your relationship, your choice.

Women needing to submit has always been a hot topic
~
It's quite unfortunate the word 'submission' has been twisted, misused, misconstrued and abused sooooo much, particularly by the progressive 'strong' women of today

There's noting 'doormat-ish' or subservient about the word and it's meaning

kadas01:
It is a very big "error" for any man to think he has "the right to lord" over any woman in a relationship! "Ignorance and wrong upbringing" is a major cause of this societal "anomaly"! A relationship is naturally suppose to be "mutual"! Both parties contribute "equally" to make it work! At least, there should be a "healthy balance"!

I agree with all you say here, but please don't ever use the word submit because it is the opposite of what you have just said.

@op perhaps u're not a christian, read 1 corinthians 11:3 and genesis 3:16. That's if u're a christian, because this thread bespeaks pagan mentality and extreme feminism. Op May God exorcise this feminist spirit from u.....help me say Amin...

Evina:


You have further affirmed my earlier observation that you do not fully grasp the art of submission.

Let me ask you this: in your relationship with friends and siblings, do you always choose to have your way? Or do you respect their opinions, let some things slide, make sacrifices for their happiness? If you have, you have submitted to them.

Being submissive doesnt mean loss of will, it is your willingness to yield to the will of another.

I understand that weak, insecure men will mistake submissiveness for vulnerability and take advantage. (I guess this is what you have a problem with).This doesn't make the art of submission stupid or wrong, it just makes those who do not get it and try to abuse it, ignorant.

Dear you av said it all...some men take advantage of submissivenes to control d lady unneccessary...but mine is nt like dat,he respects dat & loves me more,he has confessed to ds...submissive deosnt make me a weakling