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| Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 6:23pm On Dec 04, 2014 |
If you don’t like reading, just move on cause this might be too long for you. It is no longer news that Microsoft has decided to go open source with the .Net technologies and port to Linux and Macintosh. However, it remains a shock to anyone who knows how jealously the company had guarded its techs in past. This could be considered the most intriguing news in the IT world in years. Now, the questions are: What led to this unexpected turn of events? Who stands to gain? And who stands to be antagonised? One thing we are know for sure is that the company is about to clear the sole obstacle it ever had in software competition. C#, Microsoft’s front liner language, has proven over time to be one of the most powerful languages in in terms of data structure, interoperability/integration, areas of application etc. In fact, it Microsoft’s response to Java (formerly owned by Sun Microsystems but later bought by Oracle Inc.). To many, C# is a superset of Java or maybe a refined version of the same language. But to others, Java still remains ahead primarily due to its versatility. Yeah both languages are multi-purpose but JVM is one “prostitute” that has no regards for platform. Ranging from *nix to mobile platform, Java has proven to be an outstanding language. However, Java is not an open source technology and is not about to be (can’t say anymore) But then, with the recent developments in C#, the language has come to be choice of millions of programmers worldwide. It has a provided a home for formerly confused lovers of Java and the .Net platform as it appears to be “Java.Net”. It has also found its way into different aspects of programming like mobile, cloud, ERP’s, microprocessor and much more. As of now, the only advantage Java has over C# is versatility and Microsoft has decided to take this off completely. No one would take Java over C# when it comes to windows UI. ASP.Net could be said to be JSP’s counter attack and both are doing just great out there (very similar too). Honestly, C# and Java are fairly equally powerful tools. But once again, JVM is one of its kind. Now, going open source might seem extreme but it surely is an IV for the world out there to jointly create a miracle out of an already great language. PHP is one language that can bear witness to the greatness of the open source concept. This recent development seems to spell doom for Java and, in my humble opinion, the influx of people into the C# world is about to reach its height. Many scholars see C# as the language of the future and universities worldwide are rapidly embracing the language. Here is what a foreign colleague has to say : [b]The headlines read like the imaginative claims of an April Fool's story or a satirical sortie from the Onion: Microsoft open-sources full .NET stack; Microsoft ports .NET to Linux and Mac OS; Microsoft boosts free tools versions to compete evenly with its paid editions. And yet…it's all true. Today, Microsoft announced sweeping changes in its tools division that make the advances of earlier this year look like minor events. Of the announcements, in my view, the most important by far is the commitment to put .NET on all major platforms. Microsoft itself will handle delivering .NET on Linux and Mac OS. It will depend on tighter cooperation with Xamarin to address the mobile sector. Of these platforms, Linux is clearly the most important. Today, Microsoft earns much of its (record) profits from enterprise software packages (SQL Server, SharePoint, Exchange, etc.). By running .NET on Linux, it now has the ability to run those apps on a significant majority of server platforms. Except for Solaris sites, all enterprises will be able to run the applications without having to add in the cost of Microsoft Server licenses. But perhaps more important than the pure server benefit is the cloud aspect. VMs on the cloud, especially the public cloud, are principally Linux-based. Windows VMs are available, too, but at consistently higher pricing. With this move, .NET apps can now run anywhere on the cloud — or said another way, between servers and the cloud, the apps can run anywhere IT is operating. The port to Mac OS is certainly less needed, as Macs already run Windows quite well (via Parallels or other virtualization technology). I expect that the move is designed to broaden the desktop coverage of .NET and to attract and work with the growing number of developers who prefer to work on MacBooks. (Go to any developer conference, hackathon, or open-source gathering, and the majority of laptops you'll see are Macs…and I don't mean a mere plurality, but rather an overwhelming majority.) The final piece of the puzzle, .NET on mobile devices, is being filled in by Xamarin, which sells a usable, if incomplete, porting solution. In its announcement today, Microsoft promised closer cooperation with the Xamarin team. This bodes well, although it remains a mystery why Microsoft has not yet bought up the company. I am hard-pressed to think of a more obvious acquisition for any tech company. I should add that for development of mobile apps that don't need to be native, Visual Studio 2013 already has HTML5 tools. The next update, due imminently, will add more tooling for Apache Cordova as well as an Android emulator. The big winners of all this goodness are C# developers. In theory, .NET portability favors all .NET languages equally, but it's no secret that C# is the first among equals. (It and F# are, in fact, the only languages that Xamarin supports currently.) Microsoft has been an excellent steward of the language, evolving it intelligently and remarkably cleanly. Among developers who use it regularly, it is uniformly well liked, which distinguishes it from most of the other major development languages today, where an appreciation that borders on ambivalence is the more common experience. The big loser is certainly Java. Java's stock in trade has been its longstanding ability to run without modification or recompilation on all major platforms. In this valuable trait, it has had no major competition in the enterprise. If Microsoft's port of .NET provides a multi-platform experience that is as smooth and seamless as Java, then the JVM will have some very serious competition. Moreover, if that comes to pass, .NET has a key advantage over Java in its support for clients. Despite the significant improvement JavaFX delivers over Swing, Java is no one's first choice for writing desktop UIs, whereas .NET is standard for business applications. For years, C# has been an attractive language for developers, but blocked in wider adoption by its inability to run on more than Windows. With today's announcement, a whole new world opens up: Nearly all desktops, servers, and cloud instances are within its reach. This is a huge step forward for C# and .NET and represents a remarkable advance in Microsoft's remaking of itself to embrace the future. [/b] Guys, what do you think? And what is the way forward? (in terms of job security, lol) 3 Likes |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by talk2hb1(m): 4:31am On Dec 05, 2014 |
I think its more of strategic biz move, because Microsoft knew that more than 80% Of server runs on the linux platform and everything is moving into the cloud they need a piece of the cake. Since C# is one of the Most celebrated programming language they tends to ride their success wagon to the next station. 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 8:06am On Dec 05, 2014 |
talk2hb1:Exactly. Though I would never have believed Microsoft would take such a drastic step; not after seeing what Facebook did to PHP. But then, everything is now possible. Let's see how it goes. 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 11:00am On Dec 05, 2014 |
Java is very much in good capable hands. Oracle, really did much to improve java after acquiring it from sun, made major version changes regular instead of delayed . Apache.org is mainly a java site and more books are available on java than any other language. Professionals hav invest parts of their lives in d language java aint going away any time soon or dwindling in popularity. To do so, a site like apache.org will have to gain traction . This takes years. Microsoft will hav to provide a free ide matching eclipse or netbeans. It provides express but netbeans , eclipse are evolvg towards being at par or surpassing with visual studio. Visual studio, is said to b d best ide on d planet, but d java community want free tools. It will take a long time and the mind share java has is still growing. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 1:57pm On Dec 05, 2014 |
No visual studio express anymore, and netbeans or eclipse will never be at par with visual studio . asalimpo: |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 5:18pm On Dec 05, 2014 |
asalimpo: Bros, in as much I agree with you that Java is very much stable, basing that on the fact that apache.org runs on it is way too wrong. Java can still fade out from the developers' network while Apache's site still runs on it. Most unfavoured languages of today still have sites that comfortably run on them provided the vendors have not openly declared its intention to quit supporting it. If you are a Java fan, I suggest you don't talk of IDE's. Eclipse and Netbeans still have a very long way to go if they must get anywhere near MS Visual Studio. If you have worked with all these ID's, you will not argue with me on this one. Seriously, I can never go back to developing desktop apps with those free tools. Java is a very powerful language and has obviously influenced MS C# but then, the fact is that it is about to lose that position it once enjoyed as a world class in terms of portability. Yeah, like I said, I agree with you, it is not about to fade out but it will surely face tough times. This is because the migration to C#, an equally powerful language, has been on the rise for years even before MS declared this mind blowing intention. Therefore, Oracle will have a long way to go to keep its position on the high table with others. Otherwise, Java may end up a proprietary language for Oracle software. I use both languages. They are very much alike so I find it easy using both. But Microsoft has gone far more into different types of software than Oracle can ever go and it goes along with its language C# thus carrying C# programmers along. Sun Microsystems could not keep up. Oracle is indeed a good hand but don't forget it was never into compiler development apart from the their custom DB scripting languages. I am not being biased but I think MS is far more well oriented in programming languages. But Oracle has DBMS, ERP's etc. so they will always be hope for Java to serve as the sole proprietary language for these systems no matter how bad. Some languages like VB.Net (still the only language for many MS customisation projects), Java (the sole language for Oracle ERP), C# (Microsoft front liner for virtually all aspects of programming), C (world class binary enabled language as old as time) and a few others are not getting out of the stage in a long time to come. Conclusion: Java will not fade out yet but it is already seeing dark days as predicted by experts. As the saying goes; "if C# can do it, why use Java?" |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 8:10pm On Dec 05, 2014 |
@bornsad you dont know jack. Think bf u respond. My points. Apache.org isnt a site using java software , it is a site where you can find a large pool of open source software frameworks and libraries. It recently celebrated its ten year annivesary. You cant call urself a java developer and not know/use apache.org some free libraries and frameworks you can get there are ant,junit,maven,commons, tapestry, wicket, httpd (most popular web server for a long time), geronimo etc. It's a treasure trove. For c# to replace java,it will have to hav somethng better than apache.org ( a large treasure trove of libs and frameworks). Not happeng any time soon. - on ide's. Eclipse and netbeans and intellij are very capable tools. They can deliver more than 90% of a typical developers needs. And if that's not enuff, intellij has a commercial version tht is highly famed. Eclipse is an over $40m software donated to the community by ibm. These software are still in active development and theyre tools of choice for millions of developers. If they were abysmally bad, who'd b using them? Also note tht these are plugin architectures , where functionality can b extended simply by downloading a plugin. Many dont even know or care how vs compares because theyve never downloaded it. Besides,the process of downloading and installing even vs express is a royal pain in d neck. Enuff to turn anybody of ms stuffs. Java is about to lose place to c#! You mean openoffice,minecraft and major java software are about to b done in c#? Y? Let me ask you. What incentive would make a developer with over 10yrs experience in java up and leave for c#? He may try out c# but dumping java is entirely different thing, the jvm,is a technological marvel. The most solid piece of non military non end-user software on d planet. It has been subject to years of improvemnt and priming.. Sun created java and nurtured it up to java 5. Oracle bought sun and nurtured java up to it's present state. Though, oracle wasnt into languages, it's done a good job of stewarding java. It also has the workforce /employees from its acquired company working with it. Java isnt only used widely in oracle products,it's used in android developmnt. It integrates with scala,clojure, groovy. It has d largest developer base of any language. If Oracle bungles java, other companies will step in to try to keep the java dream alive. Linux spurned companies like redhat and ubuntu and debian. The open source world will intervene to nurture java. As for c# being on linux, the only incentive is in the ui. But ppl who want native desktop uis go for c++. Java has the ability to emulate the ui of d host. Even if c# wins on d ui choice, it means nothing,because java isnt even the language of choice for ui apps. Java on the enterprise is highly entrenched. Java ee, also in networked/distributed apps. C# has a herculean task displacing java. The question will be, # if c# is a java-wannabe , why bother with it? Why dedicate resources to learning it wen such resources cudve gone to other higher priority objectives? |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 7:58am On Dec 06, 2014 |
asalimpo: I appreciate your comments but I suggest you do not go insulting, your first statement was really out of context, we are not fighting. Yeah, everyone knows apache.org. Your first post was not explicit so I assumed you were talking of language of implementation. Now saying Microsoft has nothing like apache.org goes a long way to tell you are not a Microsoft guy, not bad but I will like to tell you that Microsoft still sets the standard when it comes to documentations and community support. Have heard of MSDN? Microsoft Developers Network outstages any thing you can think when it comes to resources. MS was not into open source so you will not see FOSS kinda things there anyway. You've heard of MSPN? Only MS partners can access this and it's a bomb. You've heard of MCP? Again only certified professionals like us have access to this one. Like I said, MS was not into FOSS, its products are mostly licenced so it just has to be different from apache.org. IntelliJ, Jbuilder etc are not even as good as Eclipse and Netbeans not to talk of rubbing shoulders with Visual studio. I've said, I suggest you leave IDE's cause Visual Studio simply has no match out there, brother. You see, migrating from one language to another is a concept as old as time. A lot of factors contribute to this. C# can do practically every Java can do and more. Yeah, Microsoft borrowed a leaf from Sun Microsystems but they went quite far with it. The fact that C# runs on the .Net framework is enough to attract any programmer out there. The wealth of libraries here is way beyond imagination. I know the amount of codes it took me to get objects in motion on my screen using java. I know how one needs to register event listeners to process request from remote objects. I know how you go about creating deployment projects in Java. I know how my codes are mixed up with my GUI codes in Java. I know what l'd go through to host my jsp web services in Java. Bro, the thing is that .Net has made life so simple for programmers. Everything is a function of calling a couple of classes. Yet you still have the option to write yours. Flexibility is their strength. Everything is subject to option. RAD is at its height with .Net. Java consumes much effort and time to produce what C# quickly do in a breeze and this is the CAPITAL reason for the migration to C#. End users don't care how you come about their product, what they want is a cool product produced fast and that is what C# gives. Out of the three major ERPs worldwide, two uses .Net. When it burns down to systems integration, C# has it. Why inculcate the complexity of Java when C# can do it equally excellent and much more faster? A java programmer would go to C# for all these reasons and more. In a nut shell, Rapid application Development, RAD keeps .Net far ahead and you know what time means to a programmer, MONEY. I used to be all about Java too but I'm guy and need stay at the top so I embraced .Net and I'm happy I did so. The oil companies in Nigeria run SAP programmed in ABAP and .Net. Manufacturing around here run Dynamics Axapta programmed in X++ and .Net. Others run Oracle customised with Java. Bro, I needed to cover as much grounds as possible. Don't get me wrong, I know it's not always pleasing hearing doom prophesy about one's preferred language but none of these languages belong to me, mine is to make a leaving out of them. So I can't passionately stick to one just for the love of it. I am not an e-warrior for any of these languages, I even prefer working with PHP for web apps to ASP.Net and JSP. I'm not suggesting Java will phase out. I'm not suggesting you leave Java but I'm saying you should embrace .Net as well; the languages are fairly alike and it pays to be vast (I personally can testify to that). Maybe then, you can make your judgement more objectively. Good morning, hope you slept well shaa. 2 Likes |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Sibrah: 8:44am On Dec 06, 2014 |
Java isn't going away anytime soon. It has so much going on for it, so can't go away anytime soon. I hope C# and .net have their eyes set on the embedded and mobile platform also. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 9:25am On Dec 06, 2014 |
Sibrah: Micro C# has always been there for embedded systems, bro. And Xamarin is already making C# the people's choice for mobil apps. These are even before the open source stuff. Yeah, Java isn't going out soon. Though its glorious era is passing by already. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by jboy01(m): 11:46am On Dec 06, 2014 |
.NET has been into embedded system for years, mu uncle has been has written embedded application with both micro C and micro BASIC for years since his university days. And as for java on mobile, have u ever ask ur self why android uses more ram and processor core to run smoothly while ios phone still run mre smoothly with lower processors and ram? Then u will know that more developers will still port to .NET. For their mobile apps in future. 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 11:52am On Dec 06, 2014 |
Cool. When I see such arguments, I get reassured we wil get there. Nice one. I think, as programmers, we shouldn't just be arguing in terms of IDE, who uses which and who developed which. Though all these count, I think we should delve more into the language structures and implementation. Apache.org and MSDN can not stop a language from fading out. We've seen more documented languages that phased out. Personally, If I were to choose between the two as a fresh programmer, I'll go for C#. In my opinion, it has evolved into a very neat programming language with sophisticated ways of doing things. In terms of structure, I prefer the C# implementation of OOP, the language in built query ( LINQ; one major strength of .Net), the data structures (generics in C# is way neater and simpler, garbage collection (the "using" keyword has saved us a lot of dispositions), the concept of partial classes etc. This is just my take on the matter. No fighting. But then Java is not about to phase out. It is a very stable language with a wild community. Oracle will not let it down. The fact that Java was the only X-platform language out there kept it far ahead of others especially on servers/cloud. If you're already a Java guy, you're secured as well. The only reason why I would suggest you also take on C# is to be vast. Being vast is one thing every programmer needs. Different situations/environments demande different approaches. And who said Java is not on the open source path? Again, these languages are equally powerful, the debate of which is better is subject to opinion and so we should not take it personally. Let it just be a means of learning for us. For the two developers arguing up there, you both are obviously intellectually sound. You just don't share the same view here, simple. And it's normal. So if you must keep the debate on, keep it as friendly and professional as possible. Otherwise, agree to disagree. Am I the only one that prefers PHP to both languages web-wise? Lol. #kidding. 3 Likes |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 12:19pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
jboy01: Yeah, I agree with you but MikroBasic PRO for PIC microcontrollers is not .Net. Neither is Micro C. Or is there any other Micro Basic that runs on .Net platform that I don't know of? |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 7:57pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
BornSad: |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 8:12pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
BornSad: thanks for sharing but u dont get d point i'm making. Intellij is a highly regarded ide, more so than netbeans and eclipse so your analyse is ignorant ,to say d list. Just google best java ide or your preferred java ide and see what developers world wide think of intellij. On d issue of vs being more advanced,your missing my point. Eventually, open source software grows to rival if not crush closed source. Think of linux, it was laffed at on the onset but per feature linux aces any commercial offering you gat. In d same way per feature, netbeans,eclipse will eventually rival visual studio. The Nigerian software industry is an icon of mediocrity and stagnation, we like to standardize and ritualize everything, rather than stoke the flame of risk and innovation. That's Nigeria for you. It's rare to see any web dev use any language outside php. Y? Y not? The nigerian companies settle for microsoft because microsoft heavily markets to them. Popularity doesnt mean technical superiority. I've tried to |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 8:16pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
(contd...) The Nigerian software industry is an icon of mediocrity and stagnation, we like to standardize and ritualize everything, rather than stoke the flame of risk and innovation. That's Nigeria for you. It's rare to see any web dev use any language outside php. Y? Y not? The nigerian companies settle for microsoft because microsoft heavily markets to them. Popularity doesnt mean technical superiority. I've tried to download vs from msdn and it was a pain. Compare tht to getting java. For corporate programmers like you c# may make sense,simply because it's forced on you by typical technologically ignorant managers. For one tell me one feature a developer needs in an ide for majority of his day to day work,tht he cant find in the popular java ides? There's none. On the mcp think, dont get hung up on exclusivity. That's an age old cliquey technique companies use to market themselves. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 8:24pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
GozieDiora: |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 8:25pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
GozieDiora: Xamarin is doa, stillborn and with no momentum except for former c# programmers. Java devs arent dumping java to learn c# because of tangarine. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 8:35pm On Dec 06, 2014 |
jboy01: ios doesnt run smoothly because of dot.net. Is .net even the language 4 programmng ios? Android devices are developed accordng a specifaction agreed upon by d consortium of companies tht drive androids developmnt. Android is to run on vast majority of haedware from different manufacturers,it has to b consistent and efficient while being cross platform. To achieve this objective it necessarily needs more book keeping to perform than custom platforms. Ios doesnt have a cross platform cross to bear. 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Chimanet(m): 3:04am On Dec 07, 2014 |
BornSad:a typical microsoft Guy, let me ask u, have you used intellij before. Believe me it has all the godies you think only vs has in this world for a java developer. As asalimpo rightly said, you are Really a nigerian, we celebrate mediocrit  he:ml m may be java was too difficult for u to.learn properly, may be u were one of those pple littering scriptlet tags all over your jsp.using anti patterns and complaining that the language is too hard. Anyway this 2014, a lot has happened in d java community. Java develuopers are now as productive as .netco |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Chimanet(m): 3:25am On Dec 07, 2014 |
Howu did u knw sap was built on .net. netweaver platform was based on legacy j2ee. I think is only d reporting tool, business objects dey incoporated crystal report. How on earth do u. Think sap will base d main erp product on microsoft proprietory platform. D oda day, a .net Guy in my office showed me microsoft concurrency features lyk parallel foreach loop. I laught, when I know showed him how java implemented dat same feauture with the new streaming api, in java 8, d Guy became so much ashamed, he couldn't believe dat javas implementation was more concise dan .net own. I didn't even show him how succint it was in scala. Things have Really changed in d java community. Almost all things dat can be fone in .net can even be fone in java, even better attimes. With lot of flexibility. The last java web app I did, was with spring boot, a light weight opinionted open source java framwork. I was supprise I could deliver it very fast withouth even a line of xml.Am a java Guy dat has explored the .net ecosystem for some time now, these two platforms are almost the same. The only different is that .net tries as much as possible to simplify trivial things, dats a Good marketing strategy for.ms. but java Really teaches their enuf so dat they could tackle serious problems easily. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 8:38am On Dec 07, 2014 |
asalimpo: Brother, did you just say this cause you're a Java fanatics or are you really being fair and objective? Have even tried Xamarin before? With no momentum? Xamarin allows you to code for Android, Windows and Apple OS all at a go without modifications. Xamarin seamlessly integrates with Microsoft Azure. This means you can easily provide cloud services and internet based database for your mobile app without having to think write a single loc for web services and if you need tailored services, you can programme it right on the cloud with C#. This PaaS (platform as a service) and it is the height of RAD ever. Let's assume you want to develop an app that has mobile clients (Android and Apple) and probably a desktop and web clients too. And you want all the client to connect to a single web service which in turn connects to a well developed DBMS for data storage. JAVA will remain on that application for not less than two months and still need to consult Apple programmers. Xamarin C# will neatly do the entire thing in a week with ease and great simplicity. Now that's what I call RAD. Xamarin simply gives mobile programmers more ground than Java. That combined with RAD is reason enough to migrate. Even if Java programmer refuse to accept it, fresh/new programmers would rather go for Xamarin so as to have more wings. Let's not be language fanatics, let's rather be honest so as to help the younger ones make right decisions. Happy Sunday. 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 9:05am On Dec 07, 2014 |
Chimanet: Bro, I'm Oracle Certified (renewed from SUN certification in 2011 and I still work with Java till today.) and Microsoft certified (renewed in 2013). I work as an enterprise programmer in a corporate organisation and I use both languages when need be. I learned Java way before I entered .Net and it was my sole language for long. Besides, I have seen more difficult language (like like Microsoft Assembler, MikroBasic PRO etc). With these, I think I'm better off comparing the languages than any one sided developer out there. Tell me, what's the essence of difficulty if it has not direct positive impact on productivity? If language A is more difficult (and more time consuming) than language B and both languages can produce equally powerful systems, which is a better language? Will your clients ask you what language you're using when they complaining that the project is long overdue? Yes, I'm a Nigerian and I programme as a source of income not to be a flag bearer for any software vendor. If I see someone talks ill of Java tomorrow or over-hype MS .Net and I think he's not being honest, I'd still be there to oppose. That's objectivity. IntelliJ, despite its functionalities, is still not near Microsoft visual studio. Any honest Java programmer out there will tell you that. MS VS is simply an 'AI' of its own, ask around. Happy Sunday. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 9:28am On Dec 07, 2014 |
Chimanet: Cool, I think I appreciate the way you make your points objectively. First, when he said SAP is programmed in .Net, hr didn't mean the system was built was built on it. Hello, that's not possible. He only meant that SAP allows programmers to customise (to fit client needs) it in two major languages, ABAP and .Net and that's true. Though not all SAP versions support .Net, most of them use C# dll extensively not just the reporting. I like concurrency in Java too. But generally, I think C# has a better and neater language structure. Microsoft stole a lot of concepts from Java, I know. But they took their time to sieve out some rusty Java features and introduced better ones. There is no gain in complexity except if it can produce an obviously better stuff. Talking of tackling serious issues, C# allows programmers to concentrate on algorithm/problem solving than some complex syntax. And I think it enriches productivity. Java gained its popularity from ubiquity. It is almost x-platform and was the choice for *nix programming so every other shortcoming was neglected. This is what we all wanted. Microsoft is coming a bit late but late but with their well evolved C#, they will give Java a tough time. There will be more migration and fresh programmers are likely to go for C#. Happy Sunday. 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 10:54am On Dec 07, 2014 |
asalimpo: Nice one. If you're saying IntelliJ will rub shoulers with VS in future, that could happen. Everything is possible. But as of present, it's not yet there. I don't like IntelliJ personally maybe cause I started off with Netbeans but I did the assignment you gave me and found it's widely acclaimed, my bad. Bro, no one imposed any language on me, we use many languages in my firm. Languages are chosen based on client needs. Nigerians are simply business oriented and not overly passionate about any particular language. Optimisation is key here. We choose languages that suits environment and need, and that will deliver fast. The preference of PHP over ASP and JSP is not a Nigerian thing, its worldwide despite the whole simplicity Microsoft promises. Reasons being cost, ease of hosting, stability, maintenance etc. Sorry, our IT managers are not close to being ignorant, they're probably more enlightened than you and I. Before technologies are chosen in corporate organisations, a lot of things take place. A lot demos are done by different vendors. I've been in several demos involving Microsoft and Google (for cloud space), Microsoft and SAP (for ERP) etc. The best that suits the immediate environment simply wins. Oracle would always win for enterprises that originally run Linux. Java is and has always been prefered by most enterprises due to its ubiquity. So none is celebrated over the other. Microsft products cut across different types of software ranging from ERPs to Servers, DBMS, Cloud, etc and so they compete with virtually every other vendor and that is why you might be hearing more of them every where. It is only amongst freelancers that you might see such mediocrity since a typical freelancer will always praise his prefered language regardless of the immediate need. A manager of an IT firm where up to nine languages are used would be more interested in delivering than flag bearing for any language. Let's get it straight. Open source has so many add ons, hot fixes, etc online and that is because some peeps saw some shortcomings, came up with either an incorporated or a standalone/independent improvement and publish online. Non open source can never be like this cause all their products are all in-house and mostly incorporated into the actual tech in question. Their aim is to have a complete all-in-one delivery and that is what mose managers want. Truth is, they also monitor the open source to steal concepts. But then, every vendor does that. Open source has so many advantages over non open source but it has limitation too. The question of which supersedes is for another day. The fact of the day is, .Net is going open source and thus breaking through the only advantage Java had over it. Migration to .Net has been high of recent, believe me, we seriously follow the trend for better decisions. And this new development will increase it the more and new programmers are likely to prefer .Net now. I did your assignment. Now do mine. Take an opinion pole online and see what peeps have to say about the two language worldwide. I'm not freaked out by any particular language but Java will do a lot of work to stay tight as a super language. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 11:15am On Dec 07, 2014 |
GozieDiora: You've said it all. 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Nobody: 11:23am On Dec 07, 2014 |
GozieDiora: 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by GodMode: 11:39am On Dec 07, 2014 |
Every language can do almost the same thing. But comparing programming languages is very very weird.. 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by codemarshal08(m): 11:53am On Dec 07, 2014 |
GodMode: 1 Like |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by asalimpo(m): 3:24pm On Dec 07, 2014 |
@bornSad that's a very thought out response. We will hav to watch and see what d future brings in the area of these two titans. It's ironic, you predict java's demise wen java was d first major language to toe d path ,ms is now toeing. Wen Sun felt threatened by M$ dominance it open sourced part of java. Tht formed the basis for openjdk, it kept java alive . Then android gave it a new lease of life by making it d primary developmnt language. Earlier, netscape open sourced its browser source after it lost in the war with IE, and now mozilla firefox is a brain child of that original initiative. MS is now seeing tht the most resilient viral systems are open source ones - with corporate backing in most cases - e.g look @ d success of firefox, linux,unix. As for nigerian I.T managers, i maintain they are stereotypical and mediocres,period. The policy in nigeria is simply to recourse to the tried and popular. That's all. Merit wise,php was one mess of a language, held together with a string, it caught on because it was easy to use. It gained grounds here because it was very popular not because some I.T manager found some merit in it. C#,ibm,google,oracle hav done a relentless job marketing to nigerian organisations. Therefore,they come to mind wen technological decisions hav to b made. Think for a minute, would an i.t manager try to grow a small team trained in some off-languages(s) who will do projects in those languages for extended periods ,say 1 year, then the performance of their system created in those off-languges wud b compared to those in main-stream langs? This is research and it will provide cogent, emperical feedback. It will also provide valuable perspective. Fact is, making such a proposition cud cost an i.t manager his respect worse his rating or job. But it is through such experimentation tht newer technologies were born. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by talk2hb1(m): 5:48pm On Dec 07, 2014 |
Everybody presented their case very well, one thing is certain. No one has a Crystal Ball and nobody can predict precisely what the future hold for the Two languages. Who knows both of them could brace up for something on expected or both language could merge into some kind of synergical Language with one syntax compiled into one. |
| Re: Microsoft Ports. NET To Linux And Macintosh, Goes Open-sources; Is Java Doomed? by Chimanet(m): 7:00pm On Dec 07, 2014 |
GodMode:I was comparing languages, i was comparing platforms. |
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