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| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 4:26pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
[b]EIGHT REASONS TO DOUBT 1. Humans invent gods There are around 10,000 gods that we know of, beginning with the earliest known Sumerian pantheon. These gods cannot all be real because of contradictions between them. Therefore, at least some were invented. So we know men invent gods. 2. We believe our gods are real Humans can believe sincerely in almost any god. Gods have ranged from evil to benevolent, from capricious to reliable, from brilliant to stupid and from brave to cowardly. Some gods are easily seen, such as rocks, rivers and heavenly bodies whilst others are invisible. Some gods are mortal and some are immortal. Some are born and some eternal. It doesn't matter--we will believe whatever we are raised to believe. 3. We don't believe our neighbours' gods are real We find it easy to believe the gods we are raised with are real and equally easy to dismiss as invented, the gods others believe in. 4. We don't need evidence Most humans appreciate the value of evidence but we don't need evidence to be convinced that our gods are real--nor to dismiss other people's gods. We just BELIEVE. 5. Gods serve important purposes We use gods for four things: (a) To make use feel more secure and valued. (b) To explain mysteries, such as the cause of diseases and famines or the origin of the cosmos. (c) To reduce our fear of death. (d) To give authority to laws and to leaders. Gods do not have to exist to serve these purposes, people only have to believe they exist. These purposes are important to us, so we regard our gods as important. However, all these purposes can be achieved equally well, or better, through secular means. 6. Gods reflect their creators With few exceptions, gods promote the values, behaviours and social structures that are accepted by their creators--Iron Age gods, promote Iron Age values. Furthermore, gods know only what their creators knew (even if they are supposed to be omniscient). When humans misunderstand the world, their gods misunderstand the world in the same way--gods make the same mistakes their creators make. 7. We learn of gods from humans Look at a map of world religions and you'll see great geographical blocks of different religions and gods. This is evidence for what we already know; we learn about gods from families and communities--not from gods. No gods are necessary for gods to thrive. 8. We can live without gods Despite our devotion to gods for more than 5,000 years, humans can live perfectly happily without them. Today, over a billion people profess no belief in gods. There is no evidence that these people suffer for their lack of belief. Indeed, the opposite is true. There is evidence that these non-believers live longer, healthier and happier lives. Even if you believe in gods, you probably know these eight points are true. None of them compel you to conclude your god is fictional. However, they are reasons for you to question your beliefs. What makes your god different from these invented gods? Probably nothing. When you realise that, you are a step closer to a new conclusion--gods were a prop for a fledgling species that had evolved sufficiently to imagine the future, to comprehend its vulnerability and to ask questions that could not be answered. The extraordinary brain that could do all this was also perfectly suited to imagining transcendent solutions...[/b] 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by robosky02(m): 4:31pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
joseph1013: just one reason to beleive: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalm 14:1 |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by hahn(m): 4:33pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
robosky02: Even people who believe in god are corrupt. At least 99% of our leaders are corrupt. How does this change anything? 1 Like |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by robosky02(m): 4:37pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
hahn: mortals will always be mortals but that does not change the fact that thier is God. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God... psalm 14;1 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by hahn(m): 4:47pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
robosky02: A fool believes in something that he can't prove  1 Like |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by robosky02(m): 4:51pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
hahn: how can you proof that an ordinary semen released, can develep to have bones and mouth and is now called a man. my friend there is GOD 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by hahn(m): 5:10pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
robosky02: Where? Do you have a picture of him? |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by robosky02(m): 5:12pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
hahn: i will be right back lol |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by hahn(m): 5:14pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by sonmvayina(m): 9:40pm On Nov 05, 2015 |
robosky02: if i was looking for a God to worship, i will start with my mother, na inside her belle i for take this form... 1 Like |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by rabzy: 3:04pm On Nov 06, 2015 |
joseph1013: You need a stronger stomach..lol Today when someone steals money and is unable to pay back..what do you do to the person....we put him in prison.....where he is worse off than a slave...the biblical option is to work/slave for not more than 6 years. You are fixated with the word slave...you can be a worker and be treated worse than a slave...slaves in Israel are not kidnapped or stolen men nor are they enslaved but are free-born who decide to become slaves out of their own volition to get out of their present predicament...and most importantly they are treated fairly unlike what we know of slavery generally. Br. |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 11:21pm On Nov 07, 2015 |
rabzy: [b]For the sake of argument, let's say the explanation you gave to Exodus 22:3 is right. Explain these verses in line with your brand of slavery: However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT) If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT) When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT) When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB) The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)[/b] 1 Like |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:23pm On Nov 09, 2015 |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:30pm On Nov 09, 2015 |
[b]THE ILLUSION of HEAVEN Assuming for the sake of argument that the Christian heaven exists, and is exactly as the tenets of Christianity describe it, there are going to be a lot of disappointed Christians. The popular conception of the afterlife is that it's a place of happiness, where you can do all the activities you enjoyed in life without consequence. However, think about that for a second. You won't be able to have sex, because you're dead, and there's no need for sexual reproduction. You won't be able to eat your favorite foods, because you're dead, and have no metabolism. You won't be able to meet long lost loved ones, because what guarantee do you have that they ended up in the same place? If you left friends and family behind on Earth, you won't be allowed to cry for them, because God wipes away your tears and forces you not to mourn. For all you know, you could end up the equivalent of a brain in a jar once you get to heaven, because you no longer need a body to stay alive. You won't be able to do the activities you enjoyed in life, because if you're in heaven, you're only there to fulfill your one desire, which is to be with God forever. People base their concept of heaven on their experiences in life, because that's the only frame of reference they have. Yet the things in life that we find most fulfilling all stem from the fact that we will eventually die and therefore have to make the most of our time here. Take that away and all you're left with is doing the same thing for eternity, for no reason at all. And really, do you want to spend an eternity doing nothing but subjugating yourself to a petty genocidal tyrant like the Biblegod?[/b] |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 2:15am On Nov 10, 2015 |
joseph1013: ... If slavery were so God-awful, why didn’t Jesus or Paul condemn it, why was it in the Constitution and why wasn’t there a war before 1861? The South has always stood by the Constitution and limited government. When one attacks the Confederate Battle Flag, he is certainly denouncing these principles of government as well as Christianity. - Loy Mauch , republican representative http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2012/10/06/loy-mauch-update-the-republican-rep-is-on-record-on-slavery-too At the end of the day there is nothing wrong with slavery and America did nothing wrong. They paid for their slaves legitimately, by both their religious laws and their constitutional laws. This fact is now coming to the fore in american politics. |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 7:25am On Nov 10, 2015 |
PastorAIO:Is this sarcasm or do you sincerely believe that there is nothing wrong with slavery with the above submission? |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by PastorAIO: 11:01am On Nov 10, 2015 |
joseph1013: My guy, my name is not Loy Mauch |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:23pm On Nov 12, 2015 |
[b]HOLY EARTHQUAKE Mathew 27:50-56 "50 And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people. 54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!" 55 Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. 56 Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons." There was great earthquake, many women, the centurion, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons, and other people were standing looking . Nothing happened to them? This must be different from the earthquake that happened in Japan and Nepal... This is holy earthquake can only happen in bible... LOL It really is not difficult to see why the Bible is a book of myths.[/b] |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 12:55pm On Nov 13, 2015 |
[b]SOMEONE CONFRONTS ME... Question: joseph1013, if you don't believe in the existence of God, why do you waste your time on His name everyday? What worries you controls you. So,we can authoritatively conclude that, God controls you! Answer: An imaginary god does not worry me one little bit, but the stupid, violent and discriminatory things some people do who believe in it do worry me very much. When you complain about me not leaving believers in peace, try to remember, I don't post on believers' threads--I created my own thread, put out my observations about my most religious culture and environment, and believers come here to read and comment on my stuff (and BTW I don't even invite believers to follow me or my thread). Why they do it, I have no idea. Maybe, they secretly like laughing at themselves; maybe they think they hold the elusive evidence that will change my mind... or maybe they realise their beliefs are absurd and they are looking for the courage to ditch them. I would like to know. Perhaps they will tell us? Finally, I am not wasting my time. A steady stream of people tell me they have changed their minds and become more rational after hanging around my page for a while. I notice others become more measured and reasonable... All these things are small victories for reason. NB: Interestingly, I actually spend more time on my threads on football, read alot on the Investment & Agriculture sections than I will ever spend in the Religion section.[/b] 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:05pm On Nov 13, 2015 |
[b]THE LOGIC OF ANSWERED PRAYERS Every religion believes their God is the only true one and the remaining thousands are not. One of the main reasons why a particular group of people believes in a particular God is because he 'answers' their prayers and 'protects' them... otherwise they would abandon him and look for another responsive God. If the God of your religion was the ONLY 'true' one, the prayers to the remaining Gods by the respective religions would go 'Unanswered', but that's not the case. Moslems' Allah 'protects' them and 'answers' their prayers. Christians' God 'answers' their prayers and it's he who 'protects' them. This is also true for Hinduism, Budhism, Judaism, et cetera. What does this mean? It means they are all 'True' Gods. And what does this mean again? Since they are all 'True', it means you can pray to any of them and still be 'answered'. A christian can pray to Allah and be 'answered'. A moslem can pray to Jesus or Budha and be 'answered' , etc... and you all can also pray to my God called "REASON" through his Son called "FREE THINKING" and you'll as well be 'ANSWERED'. He has Always answered me. Using this simple logic, every believer could see in moments that "answered" prayers are not evidence for the existence of their god(s). Which also proves that believers prefer not to use logic.[/b] 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:19pm On Nov 14, 2015 |
[b]PARIS, FRIDAY NOV 13, 2015 Let me be absolutely clear, I do not blame all 1.6 billion Muslims for the atrocities that occurred last night in Paris. Most of these Muslims were uninvolved and blameless. And so were the victims blameless. To whatever extent you can lay a portion of the blame on governments for policies and actions that incite anger, the random sample of human beings slaughtered last night whilst enjoying a concert, a football game or a meal were also blameless. I blame the handful of Muslims who conceived, planned and perpetrated these attacks. But the string of violent, bloody attacks on random, blameless human beings perpetrated by Muslims since 2001 and before raises another question. What kind of religion can allow a follower to conclude that butchering blameless people en masse is a good thing? That random killing is God's work? That such work will be handsomely rewarded in the afterlife? Only a deeply flawed religion could leave room for this vile conclusion. If a purpose of religion is to bring us together and make us better human beings, a religion that leaves room for massacring innocents is not fit for purpose. Islam is a religion that can tear us apart and make us inhuman. Islam must change or go. Only Muslims have the power to change Islam but, so far, they are the only people who fail to see the need for change. They have just witnessed another compelling reason to do so. PS I may be premature in assuming these were Islamic attacks since no group has yet claimed responsibility but will anyone bet I'm wrong?[/b] |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 8:55am On Nov 15, 2015 |
How "Islamophobia" REALLY works, in 3 simple steps: 1. Radical Islamists around the world behead/blow up tens of thousands of innocent people who believe differently from them. These terrorists don't just "happen" to be Muslim - they commit these atrocities in the very NAME of their faith, quoting supporting passages from its core texts word-for-word that can be confirmed by anyone with an Internet connection. 2. More moderate Muslims react by condemning the actions - but fiercely defending the book and faith that endorses them. 3. People become confused, and begin to fear not just the terrorists, but also the faith that drives them. That's it. Bigotry against all Muslim people is wrong. But fear of the Islamic doctrine and its closest, fundamentalist adherents is completely rational. |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 8:09am On Nov 16, 2015 |
[b][size=14pt]The Peaceful Majority[/size] The amount of time it takes between a terrorist attack and someone rushing to point out that "not all Muslims are terrorists" can usually be measured in seconds and minutes, not hours. It's a useless observation. Not only does it not provide or forward a solution to the death and destruction we deal with on a regular basis....but it also ignores ALL of the World's history in which the "peaceful majority" were completely irrelevant. There are over a billion Muslims in the world. Of COURSE they're not all terrorists. But a significant percentage of them HATE Western civilization and would dance in the streets if Western civilization fell at the hands of murderous Islamists. The "peaceful majority" is irrelevant. Most Germans were peaceful and 60 millions people still died. Most Russians were peaceful and yet 20 million people still died. Most Chinese were peaceful and yet 70 million people still died. Most Japanese were peaceful prior to WWII and yet Japan killed millions in Southeast Asia. We cannot base our actions on the "peaceful majority". We have to base our actions on the "terrorist minority". Is that fair? Maybe not. But, sooner or later, we have to decide whether we're going to be politically correct about Islam....or are we going to protect ourselves against a very large minority who are hell-bent on our destruction. Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s[/b] |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 10:30am On Nov 16, 2015 |
[b]SUICIDE BOMBERS ARE NOT EXTREMISTS Let's be clear about Islamic terrorists. They're not "extremists". If your scripture tells you that it's okay to kill or harm people who don't believe in your god.....and you go DO that, you're not an "extremist". You're just a devout believer. I refuse to call people "extremists" for doing what their religion teaches them to do. The fact that there are lots of other people in the same religion who aren't doing those things doesn't make the actions of a few any less heinous or atrocious. I think that the greatest human threat we face as a society is the fact that we have people walking around with 21st-century weapons and Iron Age religious philosophies. And, as a friend pointed out earlier today, we don't need to agree on whether or not the actions of these these terrorists are sanctioned or mandated by the Koran and the hadith. It's irrelevant. The TERRORISTS say their actions are sanctioned and mandated by their religion. Their actions are only considered "extreme" by comparison to the actions of a normal, sane person. But their actions are NOT "extreme" when compared to their religious texts. They're simply acting in accordance to their scriptures. They're not "extremists". They're just devout believers who actually do what their scriptures tell them. Why do these men do these things? Because they believe in the literal truth of the Koran. Why were 19 well-educated, middle-class men willing to die in order to fly planes into American skyscrapers? Because they believed that they would go straight to paradise for doing so. There's no confusion about the motivation of these people. In fact, it's actually rare to find people's choice of behavior so fully and satisfactorily explained. It doesn't matter what we think. THEY believe that they're on a mission from God. And they have the scripture to back up their actions. And THAT is the reality we have to deal with; not some Pollyanna, rose-colored glasses perspective that wants to talk about how "not all Muslims are like that". Of course they're not. But when you consider the sheer number of terrorist acts that are DIRECTLY related to Islam.....then sooner or later, the observation that "they're not all like that" becomes an irrelevant point.[/b] 3 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 10:42am On Nov 16, 2015 |
[b]ARE WE PERPETUATING HATRED AGAINST MUSLIMS? COMMENT: Islam does not promote holy war any more than the Bible promotes slavery, polygamy, or any of the violence that appears there. In fact, the term jihad is misused. Most Muslims understand jihad to be the inner struggle between the sins of man and the peacefulness that comes from faith. The holy war they are referring to is within themselves. The same sentiments that Jesus and the Buddha also proclaimed. Read the book of Leviticus. In one book alone, you'll find more hatred and evil in the Jewish and Christian Bible. ANSWER: Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate. (Koran 9:73) Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous. (Koran 9:123) "Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of God; whoever fights for the cause of God, whether he dies or triumphs, We shall richly reward him…. The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan…. Say: “Tri-fling are the pleasures of this life. The hereafter is better for those who would keep from evil….” (Koran 4:74–78) And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. "And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers. (Koran 2:192-193) "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." (Koran 2:216) "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." (Koran 4:74) "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement" (Koran 5:33) And that's just a small sampling from the Koran. If you want to get into the hadith, there are tons of worse examples. Oh, and people should be careful with their assumptions. Not everyone who's opposed to the teachings of Islam hold their opinions out of ignorance or lack of study. Ask me my opinion of Leviticus and you'll find it's on par with my opinion of the Koran. Secondly, I find it interesting that attempts are made to invalidate clear mandates in the Koran as being "anecdotal". That's shameful. Ask these men why they did what they did and they will point to those EXACT same verses. They did what they did because they believed they would be rewarded in heaven for obeying those scriptures. These are not "anecdotes", even if the word is used properly. They are the CORE ISSUE for why one religious group is constantly, incessantly and consistently executing violence on their fellow-man. And I find it very disingenuous that people would want to disregard their scriptures by pretending that their religious beliefs and dogma are not the central core of the problem. The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim The Beltway Snipers were Muslims The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim The underwear Bomber was a Muslim The U.S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims The Bafi Nightclub Bombers were Muslims The London Subway Bombers were Muslims The Moscow Theater Attackers were Muslims The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims This isn't about "perpetrating hatred". This is about putting a stop to politically correct BU.LL.SH.IT thinking and acknowledging a glaringly obvious fact before someone gets their hands on a nuclear weapon. For those that disagree, that's their own affair. But on the heels of another Islamist terrorist event, I don't have much interest in a conversation that suggests we should sweep the obvious problem under the rug.[/b] 2 Likes |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by UyiIredia(m): 3:45pm On Nov 16, 2015 |
joseph1013: 1) Humans under not invent God or gods. 2) They are or have the potential to be real. 3) Our neighbours believe in a Creator God on the we agree. The differences apply to how we should show respect to God and what God's will is. 4) By virtue of our mind we can believe by faith or reason using the senses. 5) Atheism allows people: I) be secure in their knowledge ii) use materialistic explanations iii) believe in a hopeless state of nonexistence after death iv) foolishly believe people of faith fear death when they lack the guts of Boko Haram bombers or Christian missionaries that put themselves at risk. Forgetting how Jesus chose to die even though he knew his betrayer. v) give overdue respect to the scientific method. 6) A myopic view. Many religions contain truths that stand for eternity. For instance, Hindus believe in an all pervasive Creator Brahma that preserves through Vishnu and destroy via Siva. The same applies to the Christian God who created, preserves and destroy as He wills. 7) You learn from God primarily by your mind or via visions which unbelievers deny and rationalize away.  SMH. Hitchens is dead and Bill Graham is still holding on almost after a hundred years. A Fela may not have lived as long as Tai Solarin but he will get a reward for believing in a Good Solarin was blind to. Mark that. Sorry dude but we aren't in the times when God will send angels or come as a man or speak through the clouds to prove He exists, He did that in the OT and people sti bitterly complained and rebelled against their Creator. God has given you a mind, use it to infer His existence. You don't have eternity to carefully check all the evidence from both sides so I suggest you meditate deeply on this. God's Spirit lives in you. You are simply dead to the fact. |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 7:20pm On Nov 16, 2015 |
HOW TO KNOW YOU'VE LOST YOUR AUDIENCE FOREVER Over 3,500 people resigned the Mormon church yesterday in the US over the church's bigoted stance to discipline same-sex couples AND THEIR CHILDREN. Over 1,500 resignations were filed, with another 2,000 requests processed by attorneys from individuals who weren’t able to attend. Lawyers were on hand to help the hundreds of people waiting in line to get their resignation forms filled out. Many of them are not even gay. They're just no longer willing to put up with bigotry and blackmail. The Church's leader, Thomas Monson begged them not to resign: "I plead with you to avoid anything that will deprive you of your happiness here in mortality and eternal life in the world to come." You know you've lost your audience when threatening them with eternal damnation doesn't work. LOL Source: http://www.good4utah.com/news/local-news/thousands-file-resignation-letters-from-the-lds-church 2 Likes |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:23pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
[b]IT'S POLITICS, NOT RELIGION? Saying, "It's politics, not religion," is like saying, "It's not falling out of the plane that kills you, it's the ground." All Abrahamic religions are INHERENTLY political. We’re talking about ideological belief systems that use reward and punishment, on Earth AND beyond, to effect people’s individual and collective behavior. We're talking about authoritarian dictates prescribing how to live, eat, deal with authority, form a government, have sex, raise children, and punish those who don’t comply. We're talking about legal codes, both personal (e.g. the Ten Commandments) and societal (e.g. sharia or halakha). We're talking about economics, trade, and more. Nationalism, terms of law and order, and territorial claims are at the very root of what makes something political. The doctrine of Islamic jihadism is driven by a nationalism that is fiercely and violently protective of the religion from attacks -- including attacks from cartoonists and novelists -- or of encroachment on Muslim lands. Zionism, a nationalist movement, has a territorial claim at its very heart -- one also supported by many evangelical Christians who believe the Jews must first return to Israel in order for Christ to return (36% of all Americans believe this according to Pew research -- a pretty huge voting bloc). The Jews, of course, are mere pawns in the Christian version of this eagerly anticipated end-times scenario, making this belief simultaneously anti-Semitic and pro-Israel. Add to this the unfortunate fact that “pro-Israel” automatically means “anti-Muslim” to millions of Arabs and Muslims across the world, and it becomes all but impossible to see where religion ends and the politics begins. These religious nationalist movements aren't just political. Up to 65% of the Quran is dedicated to the fate of non-Muslims and/or how to deal with them. Zionism is a central theme in the Old Testament and is at the heart and soul of Judaism. And as for Christianity, Christopher Hitchens said it best: "...If your belief is that Jesus [is going to come] back very soon [and] is going to kill everyone who doesn’t agree with him -- how do you keep that out of politics? The belief IS political." With all due respect to semi-informed writers like Giles Fraser, the idea that the religious can be separated from the political in conflicts like this -- or even that the two are wholly separate entities in the first place -- is dangerously naïve. - Ali A. Rizvi[/b] 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:27pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
This is so funny and horrifying because it's true. It must be incredibly frustrating as an Islamic terrorist not to have your views and motives taken seriously by the societies you terrorize, even after you have explicitly and repeatedly stated them. Even worse, those on the regressive left, in their endless capacity for masochism and self-loathing, have attempted to shift blame inwardly on themselves, denying the terrorists even the satisfaction of claiming responsibility. 1 Like |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:41pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
[b]An Open Letter to Moderate Muslims -Ali A. Rizvi Let's start with what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to accuse you of staying silent in the face of the horrific atrocities being committed around the world by your co-religionists. Most of you have loudly and unequivocally condemned groups like the Islamic State (ISIS), and gone out of your way to dissociate yourselves from them. You have helped successfully isolate ISIS and significantly damage its credibility. I'm also not going to accuse you of being sympathetic to fundamentalists' causes like violent jihad or conversion by force. I know you condemn their primitive tactics like the rest of us, maybe even more so, considering the majority of victims of Islamic terrorists are moderate Muslims like yourselves. On this, I am with you. But I do want to talk to you about your increasingly waning credibility -- a concern many of you have articulated as well. You're feeling more misunderstood than ever, as Islamic fundamentalists hijack the image of Muslims, ostentatiously presenting themselves as the "voice of Islam." And worse, everyone seems to be buying it. The frustration is evident. In response to comedian Bill Maher's recent segment ripping liberals for their silence on criticizing Islam, religious scholar Reza Aslan slammed him in a CNN interview. Visibly exasperated, he ultimately resorted to using words like "stupid" and "bigot" to make his points. (He apologized for this later.) We'll get to Aslan's other arguments in a bit. But first, let's talk about something he said to his hosts that I know many of you relate to: that moderate Muslims are too often painted with the same brush as their fundamentalist counterparts. This is often true, and is largely unfair to moderates like yourselves. But you can't simply blame this on the "ignorance" or "bigotry" of non-Muslims, or on media bias. Non-Muslims and the media are no more monolithic than the Muslim world you and I come from. The problem is this: moderate Muslims like you also play a significant role in perpetuating this narrative -- even if you don't intend to. To understand how, it's important to see how it looks from the other side. *** Tell me if this sounds familiar: (1) A moderate Muslim states that ISIS is wrong, they aren't "true" Muslims, and Islam is a religion of peace.Sometimes, this kind of exchange will lead to the questioner being labeled an "Islamophobe," or being accused of bigotry, as Aslan did with Maher and his CNN hosts. This is a very serious charge that is very effective at ending the conversation. No one wants to be called a bigot. But put yourself in the shoes of your non-Muslim audience. Is it really them linking Islam to terrorism? We're surrounded with images and videos of jihadists yelling "Allahu Akbar" and quoting passages from the Quran before beheading someone (usually a non-Muslim), setting off an explosion, or rallying others to battle. Who is really making this connection? What would you do if this situation was reversed? What are non-Muslims supposed to think when even moderate Muslims like yourselves defend the very same words and book that these fundamentalists effortlessly quote as justification for killing them -- as perfect and infallible? Like other moderates, Reza Aslan frequently bemoans those who read the Quran "literally." Interestingly enough, we sort of agree on this: the thought of the Quran being read "literally" -- or exactly as Allah wrote it -- unsettles me as much as it unsettles Reza. This is telling, and Reza isn't alone. Many of you insist on alternative interpretations, some kind of metaphorical reading -- anything to avoid reading the holy book the way it's actually written. What message do you think this sends? To those on the outside, it implies there is something lacking in what you claim is God's perfect word. In a way, you're telling the listener to value your explanations of these words over the sacred words themselves. Obviously, this doesn't make a great case for divine authorship. Combined with the claims that the book is widely misunderstood, it makes the writer appear either inarticulate or incompetent. I know that's not the message you mean to send -- I've been where you are. But it is important to understand why it comes across that way to many non-Muslims. If any kind of literature is to be interpreted "metaphorically," it has to at least represent the original idea. Metaphors are meant to illustrate and clarify ideas, not twist and obscure them. When the literal words speak of blatant violence but are claimed to really mean peace and unity, we're not in interpretation/metaphor zone anymore; we're heading into distortion/misrepresentation territory. If this disconnect was limited to one or two verses, I would consider your argument. If your interpretation were accepted by all of the world's Muslims, I would consider your argument. Unfortunately, neither of these is the case. You may be shaking your head at this point. I know your explanations are very convincing to fellow believers. That's expected. When people don't want to abandon their faith or their conscience, they'll jump on anything they can find to reconcile the two. But believe me, outside the echo chamber, all of this is very confusing. I've argued with Western liberals who admit they don't find these arguments convincing, but hold back their opinions for fear of being seen as Islamophobic, or in the interest of supporting moderates within the Muslim community who share their goals of fighting jihad and fundamentalism. Many of your liberal allies are sincere, but you'd be surprised how many won't tell you what they really think because of fear or political correctness. The only difference between them and Bill Maher is that Maher actually says it. Unfortunately, this is what's eating away at your credibility. This is what makes otherwise rational moderate Muslims look remarkably inconsistent. Despite your best intentions, you also embolden anti-Muslim bigots -- albeit unknowingly -- by effectively narrowing the differences between yourselves and the fundamentalists. You condemn all kinds of terrible things being done in the name of your religion, but when the same things appear as verses in your book, you use all your faculties to defend them. This comes across as either denial or disingenuousness, both of which make an honest conversation impossible. This presents an obvious dilemma. The belief that the Quran is the unquestionable word of God is fundamental to the Islamic faith, and held by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide, fundamentalist or progressive. Many of you believe that letting it go is as good as calling yourself non-Muslim. I get that. But does it have to be that way? Having grown up as part of a Muslim family in several Muslim-majority countries, I've been hearing discussions about an Islamic reformation for as long as I can remember. Ultimately, I came to believe that the first step to any kind of substantive reformation is to seriously reconsider the concept of scriptural inerrancy. And I'm not the only one. Maajid Nawaz, a committed Muslim, speaks openly about acknowledging problems in the Quran. Recently, in a brave article here right here on The Huffington Post, Imra Nazeer also asked Muslims to reconsider treating the Quran as infallible. Is she right? At first glance, this may be a shocking thought. But it's possible, and it actually has precedent. *** I grew up in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, before the Internet. We had an after-school tutor who taught us to read and recite the Quran in classical Arabic, the language in which it's written. My family is among the majority of the world's 1.6 billion Muslims -- concentrated in countries like Indonesia, India, Pakistan, Turkey and Iran -- that doesn't speak Arabic. Millions of us, however, can read the Quran in Arabic, even if we don't understand it. In most Muslim households, the Quran is physically placed at the highest place possible. In our house, it was at the top of a tall bookshelf. It cannot be physically touched unless an act of ablution/purification (wudhu) is first performed. It cannot be recited or touched by menstruating women. It is read in its entirety during the Sunni taraweeh prayers in the holy month of Ramadan. In many Muslim communities, it is held over the heads of grooms and brides as a blessing when they get married. A child completing her first reading of the Quran is a momentous occasion -- parties are thrown, gifts are given. But before the Internet, I rarely met anyone -- including the devoutly religious -- who had really read the Quran in their own language. We just went by what we heard from our elders. We couldn't Google or verify things instantaneously like we do now. There were many things in the Quran we didn't know were in there. Like Aslan, we also mistakenly thought that harsh punishments in Saudi Arabia like decapitation and hand amputation were cultural and not religious. Later, we learned that the Quran does indeed prescribe beheadings, and says clearly in verse 5:38 that thieves, male or female, should have their hands cut off. Now, there are also other things widely thought to be in the Quran that aren't actually in there. A prominent example is the hijab or burka -- neither is mentioned in the Quran. Also absent is stoning to death as a punishment -- it's mentioned in the hadith (the Sunnah, or traditions of the Prophet), and even in the Old Testament -- but not in the Quran. Neither male nor female circumcision (M/FGM) are found in the Quran. Again, however, both are mentioned in the hadith. When Aslan discussed FGM, he neglected to mention that of the four Sunni schools of jurisprudence, the Shafi'i school makes FGM mandatory based on these hadith, and the other three schools recommend it. This is why Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the world, mostly Shafi'i, where Aslan said women were "absolutely 100% equal" to men, has an FGM prevalence of at least 86%, with over 90% of families supporting the practice. And the world's largest Arab Muslim country, Egypt, has an FGM prevalence of over 90%. So yes, both male and female genital cutting pre-date Islam. But it is inaccurate to say that they have no connection whatever to the religion. *** That is the kind of information I could never reliably access growing up. But with the Internet came exposure. Suddenly, every 12-year-old kid could search multiple translations of the Quran by topic, in dozens of languages. Nothing was hidden. It was all right there to see. When Lee Rigby's murderer cited Surah At-Tawbah to justify his actions, we could go online and see exactly what he was talking about. When ISIS claims divine sanction for its actions by citing verse 33 from Surah Al-Maaidah or verse 4 from Surah Muhammad, we can look it up for ourselves and connect the dots. Needless to say, this is a pretty serious problem, one that you must address. When people see moderates insisting that Islam is peaceful while also defending these verses and claiming they're misunderstood, it appears inconsistent. When they read these passages and see fundamentalists carrying out exactly what they say, it appears consistent. That's scary. You should try to understand it. Loudly shouting "Racist!" over the voices of critics, as Ben Affleck did over Maher and Sam Harris last week, isn't going to make it go away. (Also, if you think criticizing Islam is racist, you're saying that all of Islam is one particular race. There's a word for that.) Yes, it's wrong and unfair for anyone to judge a religion by the actions of its followers, be they progressive Muslims or al Qaeda. But it is appropriate and intellectually honest to judge it by the contents of its canonical texts -- texts that are now accessible online to anyone and everyone at the tap of a finger. Today, you need to do better when you address the legitimate questions people have about your beliefs and your holy book. Brushing off everything that is false or disturbing as "metaphor" or "misinterpretation" just isn't going to cut it. Neither is dismissing the questioner as a bigot. How, then, to respond? *** For starters, it might help to read not only the Quran, but the other Abrahamic texts. When you do, you'll see that the Old Testament has just as much violence, if not more, than the Quran. Stoning blasphemers, stoning fornicators, killing homosexuals -- it's all in there. When you get about ten verses deep into Deuteronomy 20, you may even swear you're reading a rulebook for ISIS. You may find yourself asking, how is this possible? The book of the Jews is not much different from my book. How, then, are the majority of them secular? How is it that most don't take too seriously the words of the Torah/Old Testament -- originally believed to be the actual word of God revealed to Moses much like the Quran to Muhammad -- yet still retain strong Jewish identities? Can this happen with Islam and Muslims? Clearly from the above, the answer is a tried-and-tested yes. And it must start by dissociating Islamic identity from Muslim identity -- by coming together on a sense of community, not ideology. Finding consensus on ideology is impossible. The sectarian violence that continues to plague the Muslim world, and has killed more Muslims than any foreign army, is blatant evidence for this. But coming together on a sense of community is what moves any society forward. Look at other Abrahamic religions that underwent reformations. You know well that Judaism and Christianity had their own violence-ridden dark ages; you mention it every chance you get nowadays, and you're right. But how did they get past that? Well, as much as the Pope opposes birth control, abortion and premarital sex, most Catholics today are openly pro-choice, practice birth control, and fornicate to their hearts' content. Most Jews are secular, and many even identify as atheists or agnostics while retaining the Jewish label. The dissidents and the heretics in these communities may get some flak here and there, but they aren't getting killed for dissenting. This is in stark contrast to the Muslim world where, according to a worldwide 2013 Pew Research Study, a majority of people in large Muslim-majority countries like Egypt and Pakistan believe that those who leave the faith must die. They constantly obsess over who is a "real" Muslim and who is not. They are quicker to defend their faith from cartoonists and filmmakers than they are to condemn those committing atrocities in its name. (Note: To their credit, the almost universal, unapologetic opposition against ISIS from Muslims is a welcome development.) *** The word "moderate" has lost its credibility. Fareed Zakaria has referred to Middle Eastern moderates as a "fantasy." Even apologists like Nathan Lean are pointing out that the use of this word isn't helping anyone. Islam needs reformers, not moderates. And words like "reform" just don't go very well with words like "infallibility." The purpose of reform is to change things, fix the system, and move it in a new direction. And to fix something, you have to acknowledge that it's broken -- not that it looks broken, or is being falsely portrayed as broken by the wrong people -- but that it's broken. That is your first step to reformation. If this sounds too radical, think back to the Prophet Muhammad himself, who was chased out of Mecca for being a radical dissident fighting the Quraysh. Think of why Jesus Christ was crucified. These men didn't capitulate or shy away from challenging even the most sacred foundations of the status quo. These men certainly weren't "moderates." They were radicals. Rebels. Reformers. That's how change happens. All revolutions start out as rebellions. Islam itself started this way. Openly challenging problematic ideas isn't bigotry, and it isn't blasphemy. If anything, it's Sunnah. Get out there, and take it back. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/an-open-letter-to-moderat_b_5930764.html[/b] 3 Likes |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 7:28pm On Nov 17, 2015 |
QUESTION If Snake can talk and talked to Eve, why are Snakes not able to talk now since God did not curse his voice? 3 Likes |
| Re: My Thoughts And Questions About Religion by joseph1013: 1:38pm On Nov 19, 2015 |
[b]GRAVEYARD OF THE GODS The creation of gods has always been an exercise in ignorance, fear and savagery. In our primitive past, the gods controlled the wind, rainfall and sunshine. They were in charge of war, earthquakes, storms, thunder and lightning. Fertility was not bestowed on any woman except by the mercy of some deity. The gods were everywhere… their anger meant famine, drought and destruction; disease and pestilence were theirs for bestowal. The gods were powerful… they controlled our lives! In order to appease them, sacrifices had to be made; countless millions were slaughtered on the altars of these ancient gods. The people lived in fear, servitude and penury, not knowing who could be next to be sacrificed to a blood thirsty god. Only the kings and priests lived in abundance. They were second only to the gods. Among the Romans, Jupiter was the King of Kings, the Lord of the gods… virgins were his delight! In the Greek world, Zeus reigned supreme, and could sleep with human maidens at will. Anyone who doubted his puissance became history. To doubt the powers of the gods was to invite death on yourself and family! But who on earth still worships Jupiter today? Who is ignorant enough to pay obeisance to Zeus? Remember Nergal? The Babylonian god of plague and war. To win his favour, thousands of slaves perished… burnt alive for war fortunes! What about Tezcatlipoca of the Aztecs who consumed twenty-five thousand virgins a year? Name the woman who still revers Tezcatlipoca today, and I will show you a barbarian. Where is the man who, in the twenty-first century, still draws sword in the name of Nergal? Visit any of the ancient peoples and the story is the same: humans bowed in ignorance and fear before their own imaginative constructs. On the demands of Moloch, the Ammonites wilfully sacrificed countless of their innocent children. The children of ancient Babylon suffered the same fate so that Marduk might be pleased; and whenever there was storm, Adad must be appeased. Among the ancient Chinese, Yan Wang reigned supreme as god of death. The Egyptians cowed before Horus, their god of war; and sought to please Anuket to keep the Nile flowing. Thousands were laid to waste on the altar of the Sumerian god, the Mighty Anunaki; and among the English, Thor’s voice boomed in storms and thunder. Again, I ask, is anyone dull-witted enough, stupid enough to worship any of these gods today? These gods once reigned supreme, but have now all fallen into oblivion; fallen from their mighty thrones, from grace into the dustbin of history. In their place have arisen other gods, no less mighty, no less demanding. The graveyard of the gods awaits the remains of the modern day gods. Our laughter at the ignorance of the ancients foretells the fact that our descendants would look back at today’s humans, and wonder: how could they be so stupid?[/b] 2 Likes 2 Shares |
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