joseph1013:
BIBLICAL TRUTH

I'm sure there must be some things in the Bible that are true. It's just that I can't find them.

If you think there is truth in the Bible, please list three things that have independent, validated evidence so we can be very confident they are true.

CAPSLOCKED:


OH, THREE THINGS? EASY.

1. YOU NEED TO STOP READING THE BIBLE WITH A CARNAL MIND. YOU NEED HOLY SPIRIT.

2. YOU DON'T HAVE TO QUESTION, JUST HAVE FAITH AND BELIEVE. CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A RELIGION. IT'S A WAY OF LIFE.

3. REPENT AND GIVE YOUR LIFE TO CHRIST BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE. ONLY A FOOL SAYS THERE'S NO GOD. YOU'RE GOING TO HELL.

LordReed:
4 years and still going strong. I like this guy. LoLz

joseph1013:
Apart from being an atheist, I am a huge fan of capitalism. I have often contemplated opening a thread for my capitalist thoughts and questions...may be I still will. You only have so much time in the day... *sighs

Anyways, I saw this somewhere and felt to share.
---
Brian-Gabriel Ndubuisi wrote:

Long Post Alert �

The economics of why drivers are so heartless when you’re stranded.

Lagos traffic can be hell!

One rainy evening, I was going home from work. I took an Uber because I didn’t have enough cash to take me home on public transport, and i couldn’t use the ATM because I’d get soaked before I got to it...

But then half way into the drive, Lagos happened... and everywhere was blocked. When we stood at a spot for over 30 minutes, I knew I had to call it quits... Afterall, I was close enough to home that I could now use the change I had to get home...

...or so I thought.

So I walked past the traffic jam to a bus stop 15 minutes away. It was still raining heavily, but I couldn’t care anymore. There, I joined a crowd waiting in the rain to get into a Danfo, so I knew I wasn’t crazy.

Then I realized why there was a crowd: apparently the Danfos had doubled their prices. And those in the crowd were boycotting the price hike by refusing to enter the Danfos...

On the announcement by the conductor, a woman in the crowd exclaimed “Why are these people so wicked and heartless when we are stranded?!”

I smiled in my heart, and my face couldn’t hide the feeling:

This, right here, was the beauty of capitalism.

I didn’t have enough cash myself to pay for the Danfos, but I was enchanted still. I had witnessed something beautiful and the pain was worth it.

So I walked... I walked for another 1 hour 30 minutes before I could get to the point where the money I had could get me home.

While I was walking, I was analyzing what had happened. Why was there a hike in prices?

Was it really greed and opportunism/wickedness/heartlessness of the Drivers?

After much thought, I arrived at the conclusion that it had absolutely nothing to do with these...

In fact, those Danfo drivers are human angels, sent by God himself to serve the Lagos masses.

So, what had happened?

[side 1]
You see, during every rush hour, the customers only see one side of the journey, and couldn’t care less about the other side of it. Most Lagosians live outside the business centers.

This means that, during morning rush hours, buses go to the center full, and come back empty [**its more complex than this, but for the sake of simplicity].

During evening rush hours, it is reversed - busses go to the center empty, and come back full.[**]

But of course, passengers only see the side of the journey when busses are full. But for the bus drivers, the whole journey matters, because he has to use the money he makes during the TO leg or the journey, when his bus is full, to subsidize his FRO leg, when the bus is empty. This is one reason why they charge double.

[Side 2]
During rush hours, fuel consumption is higher.

During the morning rush hours, so many cars are headed to the center, therefore the traffic towards the center is usually heavy. The same goes for the traffic away from the center during evening rush hours. Cars burn a lot more fuel during traffic jams than when the road is free...

This is another reason why they would double the price.

Of course when it’s raining, or when you’re stranded due to traffic, traffic and fuel consumption also increases dramatically.

[Side 3]
Incentive.

Now this is what some people may tag as greed, but I don’t. Not everybody likes the hustle and bustle of rush hours. Everyone knows that the only thing anyone wants to do at that time is get to their destinations. And if it’s in a rainy night - get home into the softness of their sheets, wrapped in the arms of someone warm...

But these Danfo drivers and their Robins have to head back into that hell called Lagos traffic jam to pick up more passengers stranded in town to bring them back home to their loved ones...

I say they deserve all the money they make doing that!

LordReed:


Capitalism is something I have always considered to be something of an aberration, a grotesque distortion of the human condition. Yes there are competing demands on limited supply and resources but when you create a society that is focused on driving consumption in other to feed production then the whole thing becomes grotesquely distorted.

Thankfully societies are beginning to experiment with a universal basic income, there by beginning to put a rein on this mad rush. By no means is UBI a perfect solution and maybe we'll never get one but we will need to transition away from this competitive society to a more cooperative one if we don't want to self implode. All that talk of an apocalypse might become a reality even though gods and devils have nothing to do with it.

joseph1013:

It's ironic, but competition has driven cooperation the most in our history.

Those who sought to make us cooperate at all costs (read communism) dragged the world to its knees.

At its simplest level, a market system would only exist if you agree with what I have to sell, and I agree with what you are willing to buy it. What's more cooperative than that?

It's also instructive that UBI would only have been possible because free market ensures prosperity to the extent that there is so much available that politicians now feel this should be used to subsidize the living conditions of others.

Also, when people say capitalist countries are distorted, the question is, compared to who? Singapore, compared to Nigeria? Hong Kong compared to Bolivia? For all the slacks the United States gets for being capitalistic, it attracts the highest number of migrants across the globe. Even Saudi is seeing the merits of diversification. Stubborn countries like China and India dwelt so long in communism/socialism and only began to grow in wealth when they started freeing up their economy. Chairman Mao killed over 40 million people because he forced cooperation on his people.

Lastly, capitalism is inherently human. People want to profit from their efforts and would not want to be forced to share their proceeds against their will.

What I find interesting about this "capitalism is greed and opportunistic" debate is that the most capitalist countries are the biggest financial donors the world has ever seen.

So much for greed, right?

joseph1013:

It's ironic, but competition has driven cooperation the most in our history.

Those who sought to make us cooperate at all costs (read communism) dragged the world to its knees.

At its simplest level, a market system would only exist if you agree with what I have to sell, and I agree with what you are willing to buy it. What's more cooperative than that?

It's also instructive that UBI would only have been possible because free market ensures prosperity to the extent that there is so much available that politicians now feel this should be used to subsidize the living conditions of others.

Also, when people say capitalist countries are distorted, the question is, compared to who? Singapore, compared to Nigeria? Hong Kong compared to Bolivia? For all the slacks the United States gets for being capitalistic, it attracts the highest number of migrants across the globe. Even Saudi is seeing the merits of diversification. Stubborn countries like China and India dwelt so long in communism/socialism and only began to grow in wealth when they started freeing up their economy. Chairman Mao killed over 40 million people because he forced cooperation on his people.

Lastly, capitalism is inherently human. People want to profit from their efforts and would not want to be forced to share their proceeds against their will.

What I find interesting about this "capitalism is greed and opportunistic" debate is that the most capitalist countries are the biggest financial donors the world has ever seen.

So much for greed, right?

joseph1013:
Apologies for derailing this thread. I may yet be forced to create an economic analysis thread.

There are very easy answers to the (mis)representations of capitalism above.

budaatum:

Explain!

Omooba224:
Just ignore the guy, Indoctrination i

joseph1013:
CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A RELIGION!

This is a response to Primesky latest comment.

Have you noticed a new Christian apologetic emerging in recent years? Rather than attempt the hopeless project of finding evidence to support the existence of God, Jesus, heaven, hell and all the rest of it and excuses for the contradictions and embarrassing nonsense, these new kids on the block, like Primesky, simply say we misunderstand it all--Christianity is not a religion, it's just a way of life.

Really? So Christianity has no god, no prophets, no holy scripture, no dogma, no priests, no worship, no life-after-death and Christians don't pray? OK, it's not a religion then.

It's just a lifestyle. A lifestyle that happens to believe in a god, prophets, holy scripture, dogma, priests, worship, life-after-death and prayer.

What an amazing coincidence--it's a lifestyle that looks just like a religion!

CAPSLOCKED:


ITS QUITE A COINCIDENCE THAT THIS SURE GOD IS THE SAME ONE YOU GO TO WORSHIP IN A CHRISTIAN CHURCH, AS INTRODUCED TO YOU BY YOUR FAMILY, WHO ALSO LEARNED FROM THEIR OWN FAMILY. AND YOU ENGAGE IN A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM EXACTLY AS YOUR MOTHER, SIBLINGS, OR PREACHERS TAUGHT YOU. WHY DO YOU EXPECT ME TO BELIEVE YOUR OWN VERSION OF GOD (YAWEH) WHEN YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN ALLAH?

WE MUSLIMS CAN ALSO QUOTE FROM THE HOLY KORAN. THERE'S NO GOD BUT ALLAH, AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS PROPHET... THERE'S NOTHING IN YOUR BIBLE THAT CAN CHANGE THIS FACT.

Primesky:
To be cannaly minded is to look, approach and explain things with the physical sense and reasoning alone!.

To be spiritually minded, is to look, approach and explain things mostly from the spiritual perspective.

Primesky:
For instance, what is your approach to wealth?. Is your definition of wealth, the definition of God about wealth?

Primesky:
It's only a man who walks in the spirit, that can approach life from the perspective of God.

budaatum:
First, thank you. You really have treated this with honesty and respect and I will respond in coin.


Alone? Why, "alone"? If one has talents and abilities, should one hide some of them and just use two of them "alone", or one, "mostly"?

There is a clear lesson about a person who hid one whole talent, I think the same would apply if one uses one " mostly", or just two and hid all the other perspectives one bothers to become aware of. Doing so may give one a parochial view.

You mentioned three perspectives, the physical, reasoning and spiritual, and got me wondering what other views there are. Do you know of any other perspectives?


I don't know God's definition about wealth, mine though is that everything is valuable and worthy of consideration. And I say this as probably the most minimalist person you would know. I don't own much. I did use to collect and value books but when I found a community that had fewer than I had, I gave all mine to them. Wealth is things that one values, and for me it is understanding. My wealth is my ability to understand.

What's yours? And God's?


What, please, is the, "perspective of God"?

P.s. You are 'wealthy'!

joseph1013:
I talk daily to people who lunch with the creator of the universe.

This makes me wonder why the creator's awesome brilliance and comprehensive knowledge of everything, doesn't rub off on them, just a little bit.

Maybe it's the food...?

Primesky:

Thank you too. The ultimate destiny of every man is SUPPOSED to be like Jesus Christ. That's God's desire, but He doesn't force anybody to that.

Primesky:
Regardless of what you choose to believe or take, there is such a thing as the will of God. God's will most times runs contrary to our own will. Some times the will of God doesn't appear to make sense to our human reasoning until we get to the end of that particular matter.

Primesky:
It was God's will for Jesus Christ to die for all man kind. Others will argue that God should have just merely accepted repentance as the condition. Remember Jesus's prayer when he was about to be crucified, asking if it was possible for the cup to pass away?

Primesky:
Then the passage I gave you earlier in Revelation, also points to the fact that God's way is different from our way. And to walk in God's way, you have to be on the same page. That is Spiritual page and frequency.

Primesky:
Walking in spirit does not mean that you will resign your human talents and faculties. But these faculties are guided and directed by the principles of the of God.

Primesky:
To please God is to choose life, doing otherwise is death.

joseph1013:
Hi friends, I don't even know if I can follow through with this and continue infinitely like I would love to do. I don't know. I only have a feeling that writing best captures what I have to say.

This page will be my questions and thoughts page.

I am not naive enough to expect that most who come to this page will abandon the faith they hold dear, but I do hope to convince my readers that many of us who walk away have not done so out of a rebellious, juvenile whim, but rather out of a careful weighing of the reasons for and against our former faith. Our decision, far from being "sad," as many of my friends and family perceive it, represents a move from unquestioning acceptance of tradition to a spirit of openness and adventure that pursues the evidence wherever it leads. We left in pursuit of truth.

A little about me: I grew up in a devoted Christian family, loving the Lord. I was devoted and zealous. I was the 'dream' child. And because I was equally brilliant, parents pointed me as an example to their kids.

Of course as I grew up, I had questions. One of the earliest I remember was asking how Cain had a wife if there were only three people on earth (Abel having died). The answer my mum gave to that and many of the innocent questions of mine at a tender age was that I should make sure I get to heaven so I can ask God myself. It didn't prove sufficient but what was a child to do otherwise?

I was a part of my school christian groups. I also remember being picked by the Children Church's teachers to preach to the entire Church congregation on Children's Sunday. It was awesome.

When I got to one of the foremost Federal Universities, I could not be more devoted. I was now into theological texts and got more than five translations of the Bible. I was a walking bible. Of course, there were no bible apps at that time. I consumed alot of religious materials, and read books by so many Christian authors. I also got into reading Islamic texts, mainly so I could know what I was talking about when I encountered Muslim apologists, and oh I was very successful with them.

With time, I was made a Pastor of one of the most vibrant fellowships on Campus. We did not only study the Greek and Hebrew renditions, we knew at heart copious parts of scriptures and could reel them out in our sleep. We were respected on Campus, not the least by the Christian community. We would argue scriptures and rattle men with our knowledge of the redemptive work of Christ and the concept of the New Creation.

As an Engineering student, I spent 3 of my 5 years being a Pastor of this fellowship.

It was after my NYSC that I came across certain comments in books that made me look twice and search further to see if what I had believed and devoted my time to were indeed true.

I have been on this journey for a while now and I can say that I have come to a stage where I can sufficiently say that I am longer a Christian or a religionist. I do not conclusively deny the existence of God, but I can totally say that nobody has given me a convincing evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic God.

Some have told me that I am angry with God. That cannot be true, for you cannot get angry with something you are convinced does not exist in the context that I mentioned earlier. Some have said I believed wrongly, to these folks I say they know not what they sayeth.

I invite Christian readers, as well as other God-believers to consider the possibility that my apostasy is a result not of divine or diabolical deception but of a simple weighing of the evidence ... It might be that I am wrong. It might be that I have not sought God sufficiently or studied the Bible thoroughly enough or listened carefully enough to the many Christians who have admonished me ... Maybe. But the knowledge that billions of seekers have lived and died, calling out to God for some definitive revelation without ever receiving it, or receiving revelation that conflicts with the revelation others have found, contributes to my suspicion that there is no personal God who reveals himself to anyone.

One of my primary reasons for having this page is self-serving: I do not relish knowing that others consider me to be on the road to eternal damnation if I don't repent, and I want to do what I can to change their perception of those of us who do not share their faith. Yet is this self-serving endeavour reckless? If I believed it would worsen the lives of all those who follow my thoughts and questions, then yes, it would be reckless. But I am convinced that life can actually improve for those who come to understand that our earthly existence is not simply a stage, a cosmic morality play, a precursor to an eternity to come. This life is the real (and only) deal.

Enjoy...

And hey, if you look at my Nairaland history, I do love Football a lot and I'm an investment buff. I'm interested in Politics too and most of all, I love adventure. I love to travel and see new places. I'm also an eclectic reader. Who says unbelievers have a boring life?

TATIME:
This is a wonderful write-up,and i must congratulate you for having the heart to speak out from the deepest part or your soul. You and i have something in common and that is being inquisitive! I started asking questions when i was about 11,my father will take US (my siblings and i) to Church every Sunday, holding me and my junior brother by the hand and crossing the busy roads of Ebute~Metta only to join some people to sing and clap for Jesus! So i asked him one faithful day "Daddy how many Jesus there is?" his response "Just One" :me~"are all these Churches in our street(pointing to churches in our street) also for the same Jesus?" his response with enthusiasm "Yes!". I paused for a moment so he asked "anything my son?" i reluctantly asked "If it's the same Jesus, then why can't we just join those calling him next to US rather than going through all that stress and risk?". There was total silence as if something happened because everyone was laughing at my first and second question but the third question was followed by a surprising decorum! This question continued lingering on my mind till i became a Muslim and one day i met the TRUE Christians, then i got the right answer Today i can answer any question about life with the aid of the Bible,i realized my parents weren't Christians but "misinformed churchgoers" that's why they were not able to answer thought provoking questions! Now i know what Christianity truly means and i'm glad i finally got it. Proverbs 2:1-5

joseph1013:
[color=#50000]So you were a Christian, became a Muslim, and then became a Christian again?

Bro, I am weak.

May be when I wake up... [/color]

budaatum:



[The ultimate destiny of every man is supposed to be dying on a cross? To what end? I thought God gave up on human sacrifice long before Abraham!

I got to say, "thank you Lord for not making me a man!"]