herald9:


The story of Zechariah... hmmm
This happened before the formation of Christianity.

Remember Zechariah was from the old generation who were still practising Judaism.

After the formation of Christianity those doctrines were to be abandoned.

Incense is being used today among
pagans in worship and in procedures designed to
release power and invoke spells.
So if Budhism uses incense..Toasm uses incense...If we Christian uses it too...what will distinguish us from the them?
How will they know our God is different from theirs?
We should worship the Creator of the universe not the creation.

Since the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus the veil in the Holy Place have been removed...
So there's no need for candle burning.

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have
known God, or rather are known of God, how
turn ye again to the weak and beggarly
elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in
bondage?

number one

what you are saying in essence is this is a new age so let's abandon the old testament. I wonder where the quotation for tithing will come from and the place of ten commandments.

titoetal:


My dear, the celebration of the Holy Mass by Catholic is both worship and Sacrifice, amd a re-enactment of the Calvery Sacrifice in an unbloody manner. God never condemn the use of images or sign by humans rather it is giving those images a status of worship which should be for God and God alone. Let me state for you here categorically that Catholics do not worship images rather they are only a physical sign. Philosophically, the human nature requires external signs in order to raise the spirit to divine things. Hence the images and signs of the old Testament, and God Himself gave Moses and prophets of old those injuctions which Christ said in Matt 5:17 that He did not come to abolish rather to make them more effective.
Yes we burn incenses, candles and other rites which you claim are peganism as being practiced by Catholics. However, the Catholics faith believes in the Holy Scripture and the Sacred Tradition and we are proud to stand by it. We do not condemn other peoples's faith and believe either. The Gospel I will preach to you today is the gospel of Love and Good Character. You claimed the Catholics do not read the Scriptures but many christians carry the Bible around and that has not reduced evil and atrocities amongs christians folks. You know what is good and likewise do I. So lets live the golden rule bro.

Peace be with you.

The bolded is not true. There's this air of superiority with most Catholics I met. They may deny it but a little talking about scriptures and it pops up.

JeffreyJamez:


Better!!

Manipulator

Youngsage:

okayy...
So on whose authority or command do you 'pray rosary'? God, or The Roman Catholic Church? And 'Hail Mary'? Also in the bible?

sure it is in the bible,dont be too quick to judge..open ur bible to luke 1:28,luke 1:42

herald9:


The story of Zechariah... hmmm
This happened before the formation of Christianity.

Remember Zechariah was from the old generation who were still practising Judaism.

After the formation of Christianity those doctrines were to be abandoned.

Incense is being used today among
pagans in worship and in procedures designed to
release power and invoke spells.
So if Budhism uses incense..Toasm uses incense...If we Christian uses it too...what will distinguish us from the them?
How will they know our God is different from theirs?
We should worship the Creator of the universe not the creation.

Since the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus the veil in the Holy Place have been removed...
So there's no need for candle burning.

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have
known God, or rather are known of God, how
turn ye again to the weak and beggarly
elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in
bondage?

number one

I have some questions for you:

@ 1st bolded, is the Holy Bible the word of God or just the New Testament? what part of the old doctrines are we suppose to abandon? The entire old doctrines or some we perceived are "not good"?
Note: if we must abandon the old doctrines we must abandon it in its entirety. We can't choose which to obey and not. Why do Pentecostal pastors still request for tithes? (That's part of old doctrine) there was no part in the New Testament where it was mentioned.

@2nd bolded, Buddhism, Judaism and the likes also give offering in their worships, should Christians stop giving offering in churches as a result of that? If tomorrow traditional worshippers start calling on the name of Jesus as part of their rituals, would you advise Christians to stop using the name of Jesus?

Note: look you can't choose how you want to worship God! Do you know if God has a way he wants to be worshipped? No matter how foolish that method may look in the sight of humans.
Go and read about the early churches how they worshipped God. Christ said upon this rock I will build my church, Peter was the 1st pope and he was with Christ Himself so go and read how they worshipped in the time of St. Peter and co. After all, there were no Christians in the time of Christ, Christianity started after Christ had died and resurrected.

Lastly, do you know why Christ said He has not come to abolish the law? It is because he understood that God can never be wrong, if God had formulated the laws and he had told the people how to worship him, he cannot wake someday and say sorry people I think I have made a mistake, what I told you was wrong, there's a new way I want you to worship Me.
God can never be wrong! He is the God that sees the end from the beginning!

[s]

IgrigiMercenery:


**grins** Deolu, The difference between Deism and traditional/Animism is?

[/s]

Cheriepet:


Manipulator

No be you teach me?..lol

JeffreyJamez:


No be you teach me?..lol

I go see u for house leta

Ur bum bum go tell u:p

Cheriepet:


I go see u for house leta

Ur bum bum go tell u:p

O se!!...... hehehehe ....Nurse cherie is coming to shook my bumbum *dancing sekem*

herald9:


If the Bible said...there's no righteous person on earth, no not one...

What then qualifies a mortal man like Peter who was born the same way like us to become a saint?

I have followed this post and seen that, although you appear polite but you have a deep proud spirit that rejects truth and facts.

And quit writting in embolden letters; we are not as blind as you are.

lezz:
I have followed this post and seen that, although you appear polite but you have a deep proud spirit that rejects truth and facts.

And quit writting in embolden letters; we are not as blind as you are.

Sorry sir

crudedude:


The bolded is not true. There's this air of superiority with most Catholics I met. They may deny it but a little talking about scriptures and it pops up.

If you are talking of condemnation and when I said "We", I meant the Catholic church and it teaches that God is for all humans and not the God of Catholics. Niether can I be holier than the Pope and as examplified by each Pope by visiting and praying with all faiths. As an individual, I will treat you as a human first but if you attack my faith and believe, I will try to make you see reason why I stood where I am but most atimes, I do wish you see the individuality in me first.
It is true no man is perfect but there are good people in different faiths being practiced in the world. Will God refuse to accept them because they are not Protestants or Catholics, Lutherans, Moslems, Hindus, Judasim and what have you?
Dear, we have more better things to do than these arguments to make the world a better place. In your little world (your environment), be the Light and the one to be trusted. In summary, be the Truth.

Peace be with you.

The end shall tell,proud 2 be a catholic.

FrancisTony:

I repeat that Mary visited Children of Fatima and handed "Rosary" to them. You don't need to believe--that's a miracle.


At bolded, she's not your Virgin, abi?

Hail Mary, full of grace, the LORD is with thee- Luke1:28 by Angel Gabriel.

Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of they womb Jesus- Luke1:48 by Elizabeth.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now till the hour of our death. Amen- Prayer request which was inspired.


Fatima is a place in Italy not someones name.

No,Fatimah is in Portugal

CMARY:
My brother why should i not cite God's actions of the past? Are God's acts whether past, present and future not for our own benefits and for us to imitate? The same Jesus You are quoting tells you to be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect in Matt 5vs48. So what is wrong in imitating the perfect God in his actions even if they are past? In Matt5vs17 Jesus said clearly that he has come not to abolish the Law and the prophets but to fulfil them. If i don't imitate God in his actions who should i imitate you?

So what is the way forward since imitating his actions is contradicting his command?

urchbarbie:
Rather than opening dis thread to debunk scriptural references, why not open a thread to win souls for Christ. We were sent to d world to make disciples of nations, not turn against our brethren. @least we all believe dat no eye would see God unless he be bornagain. So many ppl out dere don't av Christ in them. Preach to them. Convert them. And kindly stop this fight in the name of church superiority

This is why I love you.

Hmmmmmmmm. Sitting back and reading all the bickerings, for that's what I will call it, bickering. You all should know that, the word of God is a two edged sword, to some it cuts down, and to some it pruns. The instructions are exsplicit. But most of us have decided to twist it to suit our motif. Afterall said and done, remember, you who claim to know the word shall stand to be judged by that same word. The old Testament is a mirrow, a school teacher and a pointer to christ. Now he is here, but most of us are still holding tidely to the old which gives us directions to the new. Follow Jesus. Pls. He will be the one you will stand before for judgement.

FrancisTony:

I repeat that Mary visited Children of Fatima and handed "Rosary" to them. You don't need to believe--that's a miracle.


At bolded, she's not your Virgin, abi?

Hail Mary, full of grace, the LORD is with thee- Luke1:28 by Angel Gabriel.

Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of they womb Jesus- Luke1:48 by Elizabeth.

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now till the hour of our death. Amen- Prayer request which was inspired.


Fatima is a place in Italy not someones name.

According to luk1:48. Plz Angel never mentioned to Mary was full of grace. Angel never asked her to pray for sinners infact Mary saw hersef as unqualified to give birth to the saviour of the world. Plz who proclaimed mary holy. There is none holy but God. For all (mary inclusive)have sinned and come short of the glory of God. And if we (mary inclusive) say we hv sin, we make God a liar and the truth is not in us. Those are scriptural verses. Fatimah existed in portugal not in italy and fatimah was the daughter of mohammed. Fatimah was political. Roman catholic raised islam to contend with Jews and real christians. Appearance of Mary @ fatimah was an illusion. It never happened. Rome used it to capture Islam on their path using fatimah.
Sir/ma, hell is real and heaven is real. Jesus answered and said i am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father but by me(jesus). Come unto me (Jesus) not mary, all ye that are heavy laddened and i will give u rest. He that has ear let him hear what the spirit is saying.

All of you are jobless.

Instead of thinking on how to please God, you are arguing over churches.

I pity all hypocrists that call themselves "Christians" because on the judgement day no one will ask you which church you belong to, but how you lived your life.

"THE FEAR OF GOD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM"

italo:


Rev5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Incense is used in heaven. Is heaven also pagan?

Give up!

The prayers of the saints are presented before God like incense. So the incense symbolise the prayers of the saints. What does Catholic incense symbolize?

this argument is unnecessary, Read Romans 14, any way you worship GOD is acceptable to him.

Very nice thread, @herald you are the bomb but here's a message for you whether there are good people in other religions does not guarantee their acceptance to heaven. The only way is studying the Bible and following its tenets. I appreciate you all, if we are this well versed I wonder why we are experiencing dearth of skilled labour.

What you guys are doing right now is what satan intended when he infiltrated the church with damnable and unscriptural doctrines. Right now I guess he is sitting somewhere saying, gottcha.
Your brothers and sisters are passing into eternity everyday, without christ in their lives, and all you can do is compare urselves with yourselves. 11corin 10:12. For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves are not wise. Let me ask you guys something. If I where a muslim, who is confused seeking for answers but doesn't know who to ask, but stumbles on ur arguements, how will this ur game of words help me? Pls can u guys stop already and be mature? Its high time we join forces and fight our commond enemy, his name is satan. Everyday and anytime I fall into sin or error, I tell myself, wake up fight to overcome this. You are a soldire. I don't look for someone to blame. So, I say to you all. Stop giving satan a good time.

[size=28pt]People are perishing because they lack knowledge. Narrow is the way that leads to life. Study the Bible today. #WHATDOESTHEBIBLEREALLYTEACH?[/size]

Holy Father - Pope

Holy Mother - Mary

Holy Son - Jesus

Holy Believers - Saints

Holy Handkerchief

Holy Incense

Holy Ghost

Holy Rosary

Holy lies

Holy confusion

Confused people spreading the virus. The day we begin to question what we're being taught, that day we'll stop perishing.

I was told that human life evolved through plants and then animals. Ouch...they said it was Oduduwa. Oh later it was Chi...

Only when I began to ask questions.

For those who have really experienced mysticism and sincerely want to do away with it, then some teaching especially from the Catholics will have to be reviewed.

So Mary visited children and gave them a rosary and it became a dogtrin for worship how and why. Am I the only one who knows the word apparition?

I must commend you Herald.. Your answering questions with the bible is great .. I'm deeply amazed. Keep it up nd JAH bless brother.

Jimmyo3:
So what is the way forward since imitating his actions is contradicting his command?

My brother there's no contradiction of commands here. The bible in Exodus 20vs1to5 God did not Literally forbid the making of statues, or the use. If you want to read that passage in context what God is forbade is exactly in verse5 of that chapter and it says thou shall not adore or worship or serve them. Or thou shall not bow down before them, depending on the version of bible you are using. All there points to just one instruction and that is: THOU SHALL NOT GIVE THE ADORATION/ WORSHIP PROPER FOR GOD ALONE TO ANY CREATED THING! SIMPLE, Whether a carved image or even a human being, you must not give that worship proper to God to any creature. The Big question is what is that form of worship proper to God alone? Is it the singing of praises? Of course No! Because you can ring the praises of the world footballer of the year. Even the Israelites sang the praises of king David when he killed Goliath. Singing of praises is a form of prayer actually but it is not meant does God alone. Is it the act of bowing your head down? NO! Because in Gen19vs1 Lot bowed down to the ground to venerate the two angels at sodom. It is a mark of honor of course but not meant for God alone. Gen42vs6 Joseph's brother bowed before Joseph with their faces on the ground. So bowing down your head before a superior or the spirit of a superi is not a form of worship meant for God alone. So follow me: The type of worship meant for God alone is LATRIA WORSHIP OR SUPREME WORSHIP, it's basic characteristic is that in this form of worship, the worshipper even for a micro second consciously acknowledges in his mind that the Deity begini worshiped is His un-created creator, use owner me his life, in fact his or her end point. That consciousness is always there. It is a spiritual reality it is not just a physical something. It is this spiritual characteristics that identifies SUPREME WORSHIP OR ADORATION. It has a special attitude to the state of mind of the worshipper. So if you understand this, then i can now tell you that in exodus 20vs1to5 God is saying do not give this LATRIA OR SUPREME WORSHIP TO ANY CREATURE. Simple!

Imagine us christians, we have failed woefully, we have neglected what matters most to the master. Don't worry, you all will soon stand before him and answer him if he died for ur congregation or for souls that are perishing everyday. Instead of evangelising the world, here you are , like spoild children bickering over inconsequential matters. I read an article of a former imam, now a christian, who the holy spirit had to convert by himself, why? We just can't sit down long enough with the Bible and the holy spirit, so that we can learn from him. If that imam stumbled on u guys, he will just go right back to where he came from and probably die in his sins. Let tell u guys, your hands are soaked with blood. For any soul u had a chance to win for christ but u failed, if that soul perishes, that blood will be required from you. For the word of God says," if you find your brother in sin and you turn him not away from that sin, if he dies in it, his blood shall be required of thee".

italo:
You said the use of incense is pagan...

...without showing me where God said so.

Then I showed you where God himself uses incense in heaven.

The 24 elders each had a golden bowl full of incense. That is what the Bible says. Nowhere does it mention the word 'non-literal' as you are trying to force it to say.

May I ask pls, what is the purpose of the incense in d catholic church today? A little diverticulum.........whan the bible says that Mary is blessed among women, does it mean dat she has special powers?

Tallesty1:
I am not interested in the argument going on here and I wouldn't wanna continue after this comment.

I am replying you because you are misleading people with your wrong interpretations and quotes from the scriptures. Your comment has gathered likes which means that people actually believe the interpretation you gave here. Whoever cause a brother to stumble is guilty of his sins.

@The emboldened: Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.. The incense you see here is not ordinary incense. They are prayers of the saints.

Psalm 141:2 Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice.
^^That is the incense you see in Rev 5:8. It is not the type they burn in church.

And to contribute to the debate, I think Christians have freedom to or not to burn incense but it is no longer necessary to burn incense to approach God, if we believe what is in Hebrews 9:11-14. So it all boils down to why we are burning the incense.

After the burial and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, the veil between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies has been removed ( Matthew 27:50-51). The Law has been fulfilled ( Matthew 5:17)
we can approach God with confidence and full assurance of faith.(Hebrews 10:19-22).

So if your reason of burning incense is to increase the power of your prayers or to appear more pleasing to God, then you are falling into the trap.

Bro, you are the one trying to mislead people and I know it's not deliberate, it's just a matter of understanding... Now let me break it down in a simple way;
"each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.." If you look at this statement very well you would notice that what the twenty-four elders were holding was what was stated using 'comas' and 'and'. You should also notice that it was stated that "and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." You see? the bolded used the adjective 'which are' the prayers of saints NOT 'which is like' or 'which is as'. Hope you know the meaning of 'as and like' in grammars?
Now read the other scripture you used in buttressing your point and spot the difference..."
"Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice."