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The Apple iPhone Thread - Phones - Nairaland

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The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 11:58am On Dec 12, 2008
Myself and Ex Inferis had a conversation about the iPhone on the Nokia N97 thread here http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-202695.128.html#msg3214446

In order to prevent the thread from going off-topic, I decided to create a new one where we can discuss freely. Parts of the previous conversation are quoted below.

Please lets keep conversations on this thread as professional and educational as possible. Thanks smiley
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 12:01pm On Dec 12, 2008
naijafan:

@Ex Inferis

Ok, I was once a Nokia prick and frankly, I still prefer it to Sony Ericsson or Samsung or whatever in that class. Now, the iPhone actually forced me to look outside the box and explore other devices and platforms such as the Blackberry and Windows Mobile.

During this phase, I couldn't help but see certain flaws in on the iPhone itself. I once had the iPhone and the N82 (before the N82 succumbed to salty beach water cry). In brief, here it goes.

HSDPA 3.6Mbps - compared to 7.2Mbps on most Nokia (and Windows Mobile) phones since 2007.
No VGA front camera - been around since 2006 or earlier on lots of phones. None smartphones inclusive.
2MP camera with no video recording - No video recording? (Yes I know about Cycorder and the rest. But they will never make it to the AppStore.)
No flash, no auto-focus, slow shutter - you end up with blurry images except you've got really steady hands.
No hard keyboard - No hard feelings about this either. Although I'm much more comfortable with keyboards like Touch Pro's / E90's. They couldve found a way to put this in. Just my own opinion. I still find typing on the non-tactile screen fun. grin
No replaceable battery - Bad, very bad. My iPhone requires a charge everyday. . . and I don't even know where my headphones are, which means I don't use the iPod. But I'm still stuck. Not to mention the fact that I'll be on my own on a really really long journey. That rarely happens anyway. . . I keep it always plugged to my system. Not the best, if I may add.
No bluetooth PAN - Why I couldn't help but think about that every now and then. Typical of an iPod, but not practical for a mobile phone.
No memory extension - I don't like being locked without many options. . . but that's probably just me. If you ask tho, my iPhone still has about 3GB free and its the 8GB version.
Crippled bluetooth (no AD2P) - I thot that was supposed to be a standard already.
Locked device - Thank God for the iPhone Dev Team, and the third party developer community anyways. But Steve Jobs doesnt like you. . . with all those rules and regulations on using the iPhone SDK. Oh well. I forgot, he doesnt like me applying themes to my phone either. cheesy
No MMS, no Copy n Paste - I can't count how many times I've had to retype a lengthy URL for use in another application. . . or something similar. No MMS. . . sounds like a pre-2005 device. I miss picture messaging between my girlfriend (she uses a RAZR V3 for that matter) and I. And I'm not talking about the free tricks or somethn.
Crap SMS App - don't know what I would do without BiteSMS. SMS forwarding, SMS deletion, Phone number insertion, SMS Character Counter, etc.

Hmm. . .

[b]@Texazzpete & Ex Inferis[/b]I'm sure I'm not alone in this but what did the iPhone 3G have to offer existing iPhone users apart from a GPS chip and half speed 3G ? The hype was crazy but in the end, i really don't see a reason why i should purchase the iPhone 3G for just those additions. don't hype the next iteration without much info yet. Y'all might just get disappointed.

At least, with the N82 and the N95. . . Nokia gave us almost equal device specs, but one had xenon flash for photography freaks, and they came in different form factors. I for one don't like slide, so i went for the N82. What's the form factor difference between the two iPhones? Sure the next one will be the same. Remember I made a statement like this before the announcement of the iPhone 3G when you talked about how Nokia keeps releasing the same devices in diferent shapes. Apple took that same path, albeit. . . same devices in the same shape. Tell me, which is worse?


P.S. I love the iPhone and I know there's still a lot to be discovered as regards its capabilities when it comes to software, that is. But I don't appreciate when you shoot yourselves in the foot while trying to defend your 'fanboyism' which is what i see it as. Sure, we've got lots of blind Nokia and SE lovers in the house but its always understandable. Ignorance is a keyword here. But that shouldnt be the same with you guys.

The iPhone to me is the most influential phone of the decade. But that's where it stops.

This is a Nokia N97 thread and no doubt, comparisons with the Xperia, Touch HD, Omnia, and of course the iPhone are bound to occur. But let's still keep it a Nokia thread.
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 12:02pm On Dec 12, 2008
Ex Inferis:

i concur, except for one thing:


the iphone 3G was actually announced at Macworld 2007 when the first iphone was unveiled. steve jobs, on talking about EDGE as the data medium of choice in the iphone mentioned plans to release a 3G device down the road.

in essence, iphone 3G is not N97 to N95; that is, it is not a wholly divergent highend device from the original. its simply a revision, iphone-i (like you have N93i, etc). we do not expect a new iphone hardware iteration or major release (iphone 2, of sorts) until sometime 2009 in WWDC, certainly not in Macworld 2009 when Snow Leopard is set to debut and new iphone firmware revealed.

iphone 3G is a stop-gap measure hence the similarity to the first gen.


Naijafan, i agree with you on picking Nokia over SE or Samsung anyday. i once in a moment of foolhardiness bought the Samsung F480; its a looker sure but a darn thing slower than a crippled tortoise. the P1 i got as a hand-me-down got me wondering whether the SE R&grin have take one too many and slumbered on the design board. however its refreshing that SE has signed up with the OHA and is going the Android route, joining motorola and Lenovo in there.

i agree with you on the shortcomings of the iphone, particularly the battery. I'm not really into MMS, video recording, photos, bluetoothing etc so maybe thats why i don't sorely miss these features. a front-facing camera would have been nice to have in a sort of ichat way, and perhaps Photo Booth thrown in for good measure. i think apple screwed up in one major area: in their bid to make a device slimmer than the MotoQ, they left out features which would have added to battery drain, given the 480x320 screen is a juice monster. but A2DP in a multimedia phone is a no-brainer. Apple please fix this!

on, and free the phone too from itunes, give us Disk Mode! itunes is notorious for screwing up media libraries and third party apps worsen it. imtoo ipod transfer always deletes my media plist, as does Touch Copy and iphone PC suite.


but then, with all the missing features, the iphone does what it does pretty good sha.

as for 7.2 HSDPA, what network currently churns out that speed? the modems bearing 7.2mbps are capable of attaining that speed if and when it becomes available, not that they transfer data that fast. most 3G connections top out at 1.2mbps in real world speeds. its like having a multicore 3ghz CPU when your RAM is rated 600mhz! the CPU is capable of crunching data at 3 billion cicles per sec, except the bottle neck RAM can only turn up around 600mhz of throughput.

same with network links which are very notorious for not living up to spec. even your basic wireless router (not 802.11n) touts itself as 52mbps but try moving data over your local network and see if you can go anywhere near half that speed.

in sum, the 7.2 on nokia and other phones are rated capability, not realworld speeds. though thats not to say its not a good thing to have and we are hoping the next iphone in 2010 will have this capability built in: afterall the AppleTV and Macbook AIR are among the very first to debut the 802.11n draft standard.
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 12:27pm On Dec 12, 2008
now, the conversation continues.

you don't have to be a bluetoothing person to come to appreciate the feature in times when you really need it. Consider being on the road with a friend you might not see in a long time who has that funny track you've not heard anywhere else, probably those in-house / underground studio stuff. You want the track, but you are stuck with an iPhone. Sure, the track can be emailed to you later, but the ease isnt as it should be in today's tech age. I've been in such shoes, that's why.

Attimes, I'm just too lazy to bother to hook a friend's P1i to my system to copy out something I like, bearing in mind Sony Ericsson's cumbersome PC Suite which I  might never ever need again. Bluetooth to the rescue, oh no! The OBEX profile is missing cheesy

While I understand the 3G speeds analysis, considering the fact that I obviously wont be using my current phone in the next two years. But you never can tell what happens the next moment. Your network just might decide to offer certain services (such as video - not internet based) that would require that much bandwidth, altho I doubt, considering the screen-resolution of most 3G-enabled devices today. OK, you win here. . . smiley
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by ExInferis(m): 4:47pm On Dec 12, 2008
@naijafan


now your bluetoothing scenario is a very valid point and solidifies your argument for the lack of bluetooth OBEX/FTP.

as applied to me, my music tastes are very peculiar (Amethystium, Information Society, Savage Garden and lots of grunge and New Age stuff) so chances i may not run into someone with similar bizarre tastes. if, however by some freaky chance i do and i hear some tune i wanna snarf, then dad blast steve jobs and Apple!

to steves mind, any track you hear elsewhere is a chance for the itunes machine to milk 99 cents off you, and over time this loose change piles up into mega investment in songs, strengthening steves bank account.


but bear in mind that most of the iphone lacks are software-based (bluetooth stack/protocol, MMS, video recording, clipboarding, office docs editing) so it stands to reason that perhaps they'll be introduced over time via software updates, same way we got the AppStore, Itunes WiFi store, sms multicast, etc. at least that'd keep interest in the iphone longer down the road given the frenzied anticipation of any new announced software update.


what im really looking forward to is iphone 2.0, assumed to be announced late next year. given the two years of iphone OS X in the wild and the lessons learned from its bugs, features, strengths and weaknesses, im sure Apple will polish up the software and leave Android etc in the dust.

oh, and i still prefer touch keyboards to physical qwertys. hardware keys are so 1990.

as for video, well streaming is perfectly okay with 200kbs, except if you wanna be pushing Mobile HD!
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by texazzpete(m): 9:57pm On Dec 12, 2008
@naijafan
Good points, but you can't just compare two phones and highlight the difference as 'flaws'. For example, listing the lack of a hardware keypad as a 'flaw', whereas well recieved (and critically acclaimed) WinMo phones like the touch diamond and the Samsung Omnia have no physical keypad. In fact, software keypads tend to give you a full QWERTY, a feat that cannot be emulated on other non-touchscreen phones.
Would you feel i'd be making a good point if i score most N-Series phones low for having relatively smaller screens, no touch interface and no multitouch?


Other than that, i agree with you on the stuff that Apple left out. As far as i'm concerned, Jobs has a lot of balls mocking Windows with that 'i'm a PC' ad that has a Microsoft exec allocating more cash to marketing than fixing bugs. people have complained about some of these stuff that can easily be implemented via software update. However, as inferis said, we expect a major update in january's WWDC so let's hope.

There are missing links in the iPhone armour. But as you well know sometimes other compelling features allow you to overlook some pretty crappy design choices. For that browser, the multimedia features and the ever increasing possibilities from jailbreak and appstore software, i can overlook some things.

Disclaimer: On my N95 i take only about 3 photos per month (average), have never shot a video, have never transferred any file via bluetooth. Also spanning 5 smartphones, i have never sent an MMS in my life grin
Guess it's easy to see why i can overlook some stuff grin
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 10:30pm On Dec 12, 2008
@tex.
texazzpete:

@naijafan
Good points, but you can't just compare two phones and highlight the difference as 'flaws'. For example, listing the lack of a hardware keypad as a 'flaw', whereas well recieved (and critically acclaimed) WinMo phones like the touch diamond and the Samsung Omnia have no physical keypad. In fact, software keypads tend to give you a full QWERTY, a feat that cannot be emulated on other non-touchscreen phones.
Would you feel i'd be making a good point if i score most N-Series phones low for having relatively smaller screens, no touch interface and no multitouch?

I did state that typing on the screen was still fun. However, I mentioned the removable battery as well. Which isn't a flaw if we want to start arguing words. Maybe i shouldve called it short-comings. The move from hardware keypads/boards to touch-based ones cant be complete except there is some sort of feedback, the type gotten on physical keys. Humans like to see and feel at the same time. The iPhone's implementation allows you to just 'see', and probably 'hear' if your phone isn't on silent. The 'feel' is missing. That's incomplete. That's a flaw cheesy. Or why else do pple talk about tactile feedback and all that. Surely, that's the direction next-gen touch-sensitive devices are headed.
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by cabali(m): 10:41am On Dec 13, 2008
Texazzpete has made so much sense.

The diffence between a phone and another is not a flaw! what mayb interesting to u may not be for me. for instance the options a usual nokia phone offers may not be what i want from a phone as a business man.

why should i care abt mms when my phone can do documents? It all depends on what you want from a phone and ur kinda lifestyle.

I will always go for smart phones cos I need to be online always and work on documents (word, excel, powerpoint) and all. I go for a presentation and I project my slides directly from my phone, tell me, with that kinda lifestyle, will i say my phone not having a camera is a flaw??
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 11:41am On Dec 13, 2008
cabali:

Texazzpete has made so much sense.
No doubt wink

cabali:

The diffence between a phone and another is not a flaw! what mayb interesting to u may not be for me. for instance the options a usual nokia phone offers may not be what i want from a phone as a business man.
I wasn't comparing two phones sir. angry

The following is what I said: "Now, the iPhone actually forced me to look outside the box and explore other devices and platforms such as the Blackberry and Windows Mobile. During this phase, I couldn't help but see certain flaws in on the iPhone itself."

Read next time before jumping into annoying conclusions. angry angry

cabali:

why should i care about mms when my phone can do documents? It all depends on what you want from a phone and ur kind of lifestyle.
I can imagine an individual who doesnt do SMS making such statements as well. Something like: "why should i care about SMS when my phone can do Emails"

I must say, that's the most ignorant statement I've heard in a long time. Phone calls, SMSs, and MMSs are standards of communication implemented across several mobile devices and platforms. Emails and VoIP are basically a means of communication over the Internet. Assuming the iPhone left out or crippled phone calls for VoIP, I guess you wont complain as well tongue

cabali:

I will always go for smart phones because I need to be online always and work on documents (word, excel, powerpoint) and all. I go for a presentation and I project my slides directly from my phone, tell me, with that kind of lifestyle, will i say my phone not having a camera is a flaw??
Who says the phone not having a camera is a flaw? Maybe you didnt realise your iPhone had a camera, LOL.

If you read my post, I didnt complain about mega pixels. . . far from it. Megapixels only determine the size of a picture, not the quality. Lens, image processing algorithms, etc also matter. And I didnt complain about that either. My main complaint about the iPhone camera is the slow shutter. It makes it difficult to even take a photo in the first place except you've got really steady hands. Yes, that is a flaw if you ask me, a big flaw in fact. . . because it renders one of the features on the iPhone almost useless. What is worth doing at all is worth doing well. And it can be rectified using software.

Read previous posts before replying blindly next time grin
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by cabali(m): 3:37pm On Dec 13, 2008
now, replying blindly is different from replying ignorantly.

I know u read my post cos u replied it in lines but how u did not see that i was making an example foxes me out!!!

I made an example, I did not say that is what you said!!!!!

jeeeeeezzzzz!!!!!!!!
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by Neoteny(m): 5:44pm On Dec 13, 2008
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@naijafan

tactile feedback is not really necessary in non-conventional user interfaces. i mean BB tried on the Storm with SureType, which turned out to be a mess in most reviews. ive had a few haptic feedbacks that are nothing but the phone vibrating unit kicking in to tell you a key has been pressed (as if you didnt know) and all it does is suck away precious juice. essentially, demanding some kind of forcefeedback negates the entire concept of pressure-free touch based UI. look at the wii; would you rather every virtual punch to your on-screen boxer opponent registers some sort of bone-impact on the wiimote?

maybe that'd be cool to have for those morbid moments of utter sickness, but in the long run its just a distraction that saps power, requires more code and hence more work for the processor and lots of refinement; if not done right it can well earn itself eternal damnation. again, refer to SureType.

i find that i make more errors pecking on those seed-like tiny kids on the E71 than i do on the iphone, same also on BB. thats not to say that everyone should do touchkeys and not physical ones; its a matter of preference. beleive it or not their are peope who prefer hunt-and-peck with a stylus!

i agree the iphjone camera shutter could have been better, but the lags are actually worse in 2.x, and in any case the iphone especially the 3G has good color tones and a great lens, rendering photos better than the 5mp on most LGs.

now we come to MMS. actually, its the lamest thing done on phones commercial wise. no one has yet figured how to make money off it, or get people MMS-ing with the same fervour they do sms-ing. ergo, its not a great loss. im sure you yourself can count on one hand the numebr of people you know bothering with mms; and they'll be right up there with the remaining seven people worldwide who even bother.

lets just gripe about the non-removable battery: for a phone, tghat sucks. maybe its all fine and good when your iphone is spanking new, but the moment that battery hits the decline curve and stops storing charges, you may have a hard time figuring out what to do. hell, in such times one may well end up ditching the iphone and (the horror) embracing a Nokia.
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by cabali(m): 6:03pm On Dec 13, 2008
W O R D !!!!!!!
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 4:04am On Dec 16, 2008
Neoteny:

i find that i make more errors pecking on those seed-like tiny kids on the E71 than i do on the iphone, same also on BB. thats not to say that everyone should do touchkeys and not physical ones; its a matter of preference. beleive it or not their are peope who prefer hunt-and-peck with a stylus!

True, its all a matter of preference. I know some dude who simply loves his E71 keys. On the other hand, i find myself typing 3 times faster with better accuracy on my iPhone keyboard.

Another gripe I have about the iPhone is the MobilePhone application. It doesnt give a call duration summary after a call is ended. And there is no way to check at all. angry
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by cabali(m): 10:17am On Dec 17, 2008
True!!
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by ExInferis(m): 10:51am On Dec 17, 2008
cabali:

True!!

shebi na you yarn say you no get iphone?
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by cabali(m): 11:56am On Dec 17, 2008
do you own an E71 or a BB??

And must u own a phone to know its functions or matter of fact experience its functions?? pls? sad
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by lancevader(m): 12:04pm On Dec 17, 2008
Hm
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by ExInferis(m): 12:51pm On Dec 17, 2008
cabali:

do you own an E71 or a BB??

And must u own a phone to know its functions or matter of fact experience its functions?? please? sad


yes to all questions.
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by ikuyinminu(m): 1:47pm On Dec 17, 2008
How do i solve my itouch problem. It was showing me error code 9 when i was trying to restore it and after i followed the instruction on their site, its still giving me same code error. If you have same problem please share it with me how you solve it,
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by Nobody: 3:24pm On Dec 17, 2008
cabali has a point

It all depends on ur lifestyle
i use a nokia 1650 AKA gbogbo ero (every household own a copy) grin
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by UNLEASHED(m): 5:17pm On Dec 17, 2008
I've been to different phone shops for Iphone but was unlucky, where can i get it and how much is the phone?
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by mendax: 2:21am On Dec 18, 2008
ok, this is really gettin interestin.!

i must 1st add that most of d probs/flaws/shortcomings/whatever-u-wish-to-call-them are a hell of an inconvenience, eg

1. i cant check my call duration - really big prob
2. no video recording, no audio recording, slow shutter
3. i cant even forward a text msg, or save a draft - REALLY BIG prob typing out a whole msg again!!
4. i cant send a simple pix via b/tooth
5. etc etc

for me those are my main challenges in my 8 mths iphone experience. but i wish to use this avenue to confirm why i cant even update my phone software, most times after spending hours online, it just tells me i have lost contact with the update server. is it that my internet connection is slow or something?

thanx gents for this thread, i av a gud feeling about it
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by luckyme9(f): 10:01am On Dec 18, 2008
Has anyone tried to unlock the iPhone with the 2 sim style?
I need help unlocking mine so I can use it in Nigeria.
How do I go about getting Internet on it?
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 12:05pm On Dec 18, 2008
@mendax
The call duration thing is the most annoying thing to ever happen to phone users grin

By the way, what firmware is your phone currently on? You might not be able to upgrade to version 2.2 just yet if you have not pwned your phone previously. THis is because WinPwn, the windows implementation of x-pwn, the code behind the pwnage tool hasnt been released to support v2.2

But here's something you might want to try.

Download the 2.0.1 or 2.0.2 firmware from here. u should use a download manager cos of your connection.
http://appldnld.apple.com.edgesuite.net/content.info.apple.com/iPhone/061-5135.20080729.Vfgtr/iPhone1,1_2.0.1_5B108_Restore.ipsw
http://appldnld.apple.com.edgesuite.net/content.info.apple.com/iPhone/061-5246.20080818.2V0hO/iPhone1,1_2.0.2_5C1_Restore.ipsw

Download winpwn (the current version) from here.
http://rapidshare.com/files/141607044/winpwn-2.5-BETA_2_Setup.zip.html

Use iTunes to restore your device to any of the firmwares downloaded. use Shift+Restore and select whichever one you like.

Pwn/Jailbreak/Unlock your device using winpwn.

Download the 2.2 firmware from here.
http://appldnld.apple.com.edgesuite.net/content.info.apple.com/iPhone/061-5779.20081120.Pt5yH/iPhone1,1_2.2_5G77_Restore.ipsw

Use iTunes to restore your device to the 2.2 firmware.

Use QuickPwn to restore your jailbreak. Your device stays unlocked.
http://www.theiphoneguru.org/wp-content/uploads/QuickPwn22.zip

Its advisable you use iTunes 7.7 for this process. . . as iTunes 8 has certain reported issues with pwning.
http://www.filehippo.com/download_itunes/4389/
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by Kongi(m): 7:22pm On Dec 18, 2008
I guess unless you are a phone tester by profession, it will be difficult to be objective. I only recently started using the new Blackberry Storm which is supposed to be the iphone killer.
I must confess that the new touchscreen keypad was iffy to use initially compared to my good old Blackberry Curve but I have gotten so comfortable on it within 2 weeks. It does depend on whether you use a phone day in day out before you can make a definite statement on it.
I have played with the i-phone but cant comment as I wasn't particularly impressed. The N95 left a good impression on me but then again, I was into nokias strictly back then.
I do still think Nokias are the best if you need to transfer files or connect to other phones.
The MMS thing I must confess is a feature I do not use. Emails on a blackberry are unsurpassed!
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by just2nice(m): 4:52am On Dec 19, 2008
Download Divx Player HERE .
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by naijafan(m): 10:30am On Dec 19, 2008
just2nice:

Download Divx Player HERE .

what's a .sis file doing here?
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by stancozy(m): 4:02pm On Dec 19, 2008
tongue, one of those things mod
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by mendax: 5:04pm On Dec 19, 2008
@naijafan

thanx. i'l do as u say, i use d 1.1.3 ware, and i'm on windows. so, i'l get bak 2u

pls, i wanted 2 find out also if it was possible 2 see any other directory on my fone apart frm my pix?
thanx also
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by ExInferis(m): 6:05pm On Dec 19, 2008
mendax:

please, i wanted 2 find out also if it was possible 2 see any other directory on my phone apart frm my pix?
thanx also

you can but its fairly involving.  it simply requires secure shell tunneling (SSH/SSL) into the phone via wifi or usb. to use the usual *non-Apple-sanctioned* method, go to Cydia and install OPenSSH which automatically opens ftp port (port 21, actually). using any WinSock compliant FTP app (such as WinSCP if you're on Windows or Yummy on Mac) on wifi enter the phone IP (which you use on the wifi, check Settings>WiFi), enter ROOT as user and ALPINE as password.


however to do this via USB you need to download Iphone Tunnel Suite here:

http://www.makkiaweb.net/itunnel/data/its_setup.exe


it already contains WinSCP by default.

you still need to install OpenSSH from Cydia

then do this:

1 .- Connect the iPhone to the PC via USB

2 .- Download the iPhone Tunnel Suite and run it.

3 .- Click on iPhone Tunnel and to open the Launcher

4 .- select NEW CONNECTION and enter the following:

      User:    Root
      pswrd: Alpine

5.- Click Connect. if connection fails retry, if you get a prompt to update license or blah blah then do update and you're in.

this way you get access to the entire iphone filesystem folders. the catch: you're in as ROOT, so becareful what you do. any mistake and your phone will conk out.
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by stancozy(m): 6:30pm On Dec 19, 2008
Dis guy is a genius ,
Re: The Apple iPhone Thread by cabali(m): 6:55pm On Dec 19, 2008
stancozy:

this guy is a genius ,

Believe that!!!

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