The simple explanation for such passages in the Bible is that it simply reflects the level of civilization of the Jews then. I'm sure several ancient cultures had similar barbaric laws.

Although I would tend to agree with you on the historical aspect, one should also remember that it is folly to try to give justification to the unjustifiable.
One must also remember that we aren't just talking about simple law here - we're talking about "God's law". And when we also remember that many Christians view the Old Testamant as the "Word of God", it's very difficult to just explain it away as simply being outdated.


@ttalks
Actually, I take the passage in the context of the time when it was written. A time when it was a male dominated society and women were merely pieces of property. As such, screaming for help or reporting a rapist would probably have resulted in the woman being stoned to death whatever her plea. The liklihood is that she had a far better chance of surviving both the rape and the risk of persecution by keeping quiet. It's not an ancient phenomenon either - one only has to look at the stoning to death of the 13 year old Somali rape victim a few weeks ago.
As I've said above, you're trying to justify the unjustifiable. It's far safer to stick with your assertion that the law no longer applies than to follow an illogical argument.

Bastage:

@ttalks
Actually, I take the passage in the context of the time when it was written. A time when it was a male dominated society and women were merely pieces of property. As such, screaming for help or reporting a rapist would probably have resulted in the woman being stoned to death whatever her plea. The liklihood is that she had a far better chance of surviving both the rape and the risk of persecution by keeping quiet.

If such was the situation,why then was the law put in place?The fact that the law was in place indicated that such wasn't the case.

If such was the situation,why then was the law put in place?The fact that the law was in place indicated that such wasn't the case.

For the reason, we've got to look at it in a historical context.
The fact is that rape would very often end up resulting in child-birth. As the Jews literally believed that they lived on in their children, it was very important that every child had a father to raise him and that every father knew his child. This was the way that the father lived on and through him, the god.
What the law is doing is basically forcing the woman to marry her rapist so that any child produced in the act would keep the chain going.

It's pretty insidious and by today's standards, morally outrageous, but in the context of the times it wouldn't raise an eyebrow. But this is also why I say it's wrong to try and justify the unjustifiable. The excuse that it is not relevant to Christianity today should suffice but it should also be remembered that the god of the Old Testament was a god of his time and is not always compatible with the god of the NT.

Bastage:

What the law is doing is basically forcing the woman to marry her rapist so that any child produced in the act would keep the chain going.

This statement is not consistent with scriptures.Are u forgetting verses 25-27?
The women that were raped were not forced to marry their rapists, rather the rapist was killed.(25-27)
The only women that got married to the so called 'rapists' were those who were not engaged to any body else at the time.(28-29)
The other group were those who did not scream for help when there was obvious help available(indicating consent)and those were killed.(23-24)

Three different scenarios and only one of them were the woman had to marry the man that slept with her.

Quote from: Bastage on Today at 12:23:01 AM

What the law is doing is basically forcing the woman to marry her rapist so that any child produced in the act would keep the chain going.

This statement is not consistent with scriptures.Are u forgetting verses 25-27?
The women that were raped were not forced to marry their rapists, rather the rapist was killed.(25-27)
The only women that got married to the so called 'rapists' were those who were not engaged to any body else at the time.(28-29)
The other group were those who did not scream for help when there was obvious help available(indicating consent)and those were killed.(23-24)

Three different scenarios and only one of them where the woman had to marry the man that slept with her.

The women that were raped were not forced to marry their rapists, rather the rapist was killed.

That passage is referring to betrothed women. They were already ear-marked for child-birth by their husband and were already the property of another man. Betrothal, like marriage, was a formal contract and could not be broken.
That was the way it was in practice at the beginning anyway. Later, rape victims were looked upon as "damaged chattels" and could be divorced.
This is still enshrined within Jewish law to this day.

as usual dwelling on d OT d old convenant

there is a new convenant u atheists,and that is with the coming of JESUS

since u want to criticize d GOD of d bible,why not criticise him with the OT and NT? why must u use OT always,u should be able to search out words too in d new testament too,since u people r good

waste of sperms

since u want to criticize d GOD of d bible,why not criticise him with the OT and NT

Idiot. That is the whole point of my argument - The God of the Old Testament is not the God of the New Testament.
Why am I going to use the God of the New Testament to justify the God of the Old when he's not even relevant?

Bastage:

Idiot. That is the whole point of my argument - The God of the Old Testament is not the God of the New Testament.
Why am I going to use the God of the New Testament to justify the God of the Old when he's not even relevant?

when quoting,quote both testaments,since there r both in d same bible and stop being an idiot urself


is dis not d same certified goat dat once replied my thread on d islam section? now i can see one of d lunatics of yaba left is on d loose,if not why d aggression?

if u cant stand my post,humbly get ur dirty self off it

thanks

Bastage:

Idiot. That is the whole point of my argument - The God of the Old Testament is not the God of the New Testament.
Why am I going to use the God of the New Testament to justify the God of the Old when he's not even relevant?

Bastage,

Your statement here really puts you in a bad light.The simple conclusion is you have absolutely no idea about the message being put forward by the bible.
The God of the bible is the same God in both the old and new testaments.
You can't get the complete message of the bible without taking in the accounts of the old testament.The old testament talked about the new;it paved the way for the new.
The old testament talked about Jesus Christ and what he was coming to do.The sum total of the old and the new testaments is Jesus Christ.
Everything that happened in the old testament was all for the purpose of the new.
Jesus Christ and the salvation he brought unto mankind is the sum total of the bible(Old and New testaments).
If you can't get that message from reading the whole bible properly, then I just have to conclude that there is no point in debating with you.

Your statement here really puts you in a bad light.The simple conclusion is you have absolutely no idea about the message being put forward by the bible.

A bad light in your opinion. I could level the accusation that you have no idea either

The God of the bible is the same God in both the old and new testaments.

Evidence points to the fact that he is overwhelmingly not. The OT god is the tribal war god of the Jews. The NT god is a much more tolerant, universal god. The contradictions between the two gods can only be overcome by someone totally ignoring logical reasoning.

You can't get the complete message of the bible without taking in the accounts of the old testament.The old testament talked about the new;it paved the way for the new.

It's only relevance was to pave the way for the new with a couple of dodgy prophesies that were then overstated to sell the new religion of Christianity. Other than that, what relevance does it have? And how does that relevancy overcome the blatant contradictions?

The old testament talked about Jesus Christ and what he was coming to do.The sum total of the old and the new testaments is Jesus Christ.

The OT doesn't mention Christ at all. It's a Jewish book talking about a Jewish messiah (very, very briefly). And the Jews are still waiting for him.

Everything that happened in the old testament was all for the purpose of the new.

Actually, most of what happened in the early Old Testament had already been written elsewhere in other religions. The rest is mere politics and the reinforcement of a tribal god.

Jesus Christ and the salvation he brought unto mankind is the sum total of the bible(Old and New testaments).

If you take the Old Testament as the Word of God (and by that you are forced to accept it as also the Word of Christ) then I would refer you to the first post I made in this thread. Christ cannot be viewed in any other way than a total and utter hypocrite.

If you can't get that message from reading the whole bible properly, then I just have to conclude that there is no point in debating with you.

I can live with that.

Jesus is Lord

If you want to rationalise that God in the old testament is different from God in the new testament because it seemed he was inconsistent with himself in the new, then that's just too bad.
God is God and you are you.You will only understand why he is the way he is based on what you know.
I will leave you with the only verses that best describe him and the seeming inconsistencies you seem to draw ur logic from:

Rom 9:15-17
(15)  For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
(16)  So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
(17)  For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
(18  Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
(19)  Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
(20)  Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
(21)  Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

And just a few verses out of numerous that show that the God in the old testament is the same God in the new:

Galatians 3:1-29
(1)  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
(2)  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(3)  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
(4)  Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
(5)  He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(6)  Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
(7)  Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
(8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
(9)  So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
(10)  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
(11)  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
(12)  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
(13)  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
(14)  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(15)  Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
(16)  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17)  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(18)  For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
(19)  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(20)  Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
(21)  Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
(22)  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(23)  But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(24)  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(25)  But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
(26)  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
(27)  For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(28)  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.