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Re: Death And Living Forever by cirmuell(m): 7:36am On Jan 27, 2015 |
edogho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faaT-uIuL5k http://www.robertlanza.com/do-we-have-a-soul-a-scientific-answer/ http://www.soulsofdistortion.nl/life%20after%20death%20exists.html |
Re: Death And Living Forever by cirmuell(m): 7:41am On Jan 27, 2015 |
edogho:I only gave him the one that will fit his own concept of soul. He thinks a Soul is nothing but breaths, and is not ready to accept any contrary explanation...you can try explaining to him if you have the time. |
Re: Death And Living Forever by edogho(m): 8:54am On Jan 27, 2015 |
cirmuell:ok o, u don't even know macof... |
Re: Death And Living Forever by edogho(m): 2:09pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
cirmuell:gone through only two links Second link Now, to the Incase I'm missing something here, pls tell what was observed for anyone to conclude that man indeed has an immortal soul From third link Thethose who've gone through those links pls tell what is the experiment there. Only seven out of sixty three? Smh Soul in d heart? I can as well say d soul is in d blood since I've seen a girl who started developing white hairs and wrinkles after blood was donated by her aging father.... I still say MAN IS THE SOUL except e no dey ur bible so and any soul wey sin go kpeme Ezekiel 18:4 |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 4:04pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
edogho: Lol you got me laughing at the bold I have always thought the consciousness to be the fuel to our existence in any form we find ourselves, it's what keeps us going and gives us a purpose especially as sentient beings. That's the "Spirit of God" as some will say but we need to feed it so it can grow and develop within us I won't blame people for getting sudden ideas in their head and concluding it's God communicating with them...truth is we all have it and it's sometimes called intuition, a sort of mind within the mind that pops out occasionally, or a sixth sense or vision beyond sight So while you believe that there's an entity as u called "Self" that directs our consciousness, I believe it's the consciousness that directs our soul...we being souls, the soul is our "self"(even the Bible agrees, Genesis 2:7 "and man became a living soul) 1 Like |
Re: Death And Living Forever by edogho(m): 4:51pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
macof:this one u are saying d bible says so, are u Christian again anyways, thanks for sharing, na only folykaze and billyonaire I miss for zis discuss |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 5:17pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
^^^ me and dead jew worshipping have forever parted ways...except Jesus can appear to me like Paul claimed he appeared on his way to Damascus But looking at the issue of death and living forever there's confusion in the Bible and ever Christians have little to say about the topic, the Bible has much nonsense as it's knowledge has been diluted with power hungry gimmicks, however these are interesting points worth noticing Genesis 2:17 God instructs man to not eat of the fruit that gives knowledge of good and evil, because he shall die if he does Ezekiel 18:4- 9 A Soul that Sin dies, but the righteous lives This makes it clear that it's the soul that is affected by sin and not the body, the soul being our "self", so man was never intended to live in his body forever, but to return to the earth like other animals Ecclesiastes 12:7 3:19-20 *the idea of God telling Man to not eat the fruit is symbolic to the "spirit" in man directing him, not a literal conversation like between men *the fruit is symbolic to knowledge of good and evil *Action is based on knowledge, a man sins when he knows what he's doing is evil *sin brings death upon the soul but righteousness brings life upon it Which brings me to another issue is "death" here literal or some allegory? |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 6:16pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
cirmuell: Your links are out of the point you're trying to make they didn't show how scientists are experimenting on the soul And what is soul? U keep going on about me being wrong but you have refused to state what is "right" by giving ur explanation Your Bible says soul is breath Genesis 35:18 Rachael's soul departing as she died 6:17 "I will destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life and all things on earth shall die" you'll see that the breath refered to above is in the flesh and destruction of the flesh means death, and the soul is the breath that leaves the flesh after death I Kings 17:17,21,22 & 23 ..."he felt sick that there was no breath left in him" "Elijah prayed to god saying; let this child's soul come back to him" "and the soul of the child came back to him, and he was revived" 23: Elijah said to the mother "see! Your son lives" Acts 20:9-10 " the young man sleeping at the window fell from 3 lofts and everyone thought him dead, 10. Paul said; trouble not urself for his life is still in him" This is from ur Bible, what other definition is Soul if nt the breath? |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:01pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
edogho: whats up dude. I have always been around, comes in mostly anonymous. Nairaland s boring nowadays with kind of topic created. |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:06pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Oga you are not reading your bible enough. Animal nit onky have soul, they arebliving soul |
Re: Death And Living Forever by malvisguy212: 7:23pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE:did you starts from the first page? Re-read all my post again. |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:48pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Many christians have the believe a living being is made up of flesh, spirit and soul. According to the bible, just like animal, the flesh will return to the dust while the spirit returns to the creator. That known, spirit is believe to be what enjoy bliss after judgement or it been tormented. This is to say that what live after the death of person is the soul. It could live in either heaven or the so called new earth. The most important thing I want you to note is that soul is what live after death and the bible logically proves this. "The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, says the LORD."(Isaiah 65: 25) In the last book of the Bible, Revelation, the ApostleJohn’s vision of heavenalso included animals, showing Christ and the armies of heaven"riding on white horses." (Revelation 19:14, NIV) ^^^This bbible verse is attesting to the fact that there would animal living in the new earth where flesh do not dwell in. Meaning verything would have died and the sould will liive all again forver. The lasting verse that proves animal and plants have soul is Job 12:7–10 7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; And the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: 8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: And the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. 9 Who knoweth not in all these That the hand of the Lord hath wrought this? 10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind. From the bold, I know you will agree with me that animal is one of the living thing. . . .and it is indicated that all living thing have soul which logically animal is included. Here is another: Psalm 74:19 ESV Do not deliver the soul of your dove to the wild beasts; do not forget the life of your poor forever. 1 Like |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:52pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
malvisguy212: The bold is lie. . . There is horse in heaven. Revelation 19:11 King James Version (KJV) 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. There are also many creatures in heaven. . . . Revelation 5:13 ESV And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!” 2 Likes |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 8:28pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
Folykaze bawo ni? Long time Great to see you back teaching these people their own Bible |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:42pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
macof: My man mo wa pa . The folks in this section are making thi section stink. The topic created are evn eyesore. So Niggaaa has run to politics and culture. Aku Odun. Atuwa lara o 2 Likes |
Re: Death And Living Forever by edogho(m): 9:46pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE:summon d gods that they do appear... I see ur work. buh that segmentation of man isn't exactly correct. its just soul and spirit, nothing more. remember man became a living soul and without d breath/spirit, he's just ordinary flesh/soul without life. just as d book Mr Noah and d seven survivors of the flood- eight souls !!! if d section is dulling, spice it up na... buh u no lie sha |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 10:20pm On Jan 27, 2015 |
edogho: Good evening man. I share with you the believe that soul is nothing but a living being. But if you look at this argument closely, you will realise that it is driving through christian idea of soul and it impart in life and death. The bible is not very clear on what soul really is. Firstly, Soul is a living being according to Gen 2:7. Secondly, Soul is a separate being which made up man according to Matt 10:28. The point here is that there is a soul that is killable but not by man who can also kill a soul (living being). We both know that soul (living being) is killable, but what about the one mentioned in Matt by Jesus? Apostle paul thought about soul and body can be found in 2 Cor 5:1. . . .we are made to understand that this bodily vessel or the earthly tent will be destroyed. Also in 2 Cor 5:6, we further learnt that we (this is the that thing that dwell in the body) lives in flesh and also able to live in home with God. What is this entity that live in flesh and in God? This entity have the chance of living forever outside the body. In Matt, we learnt it is soul. So going by the impression that soul is living being, what then is the soul that live on in the new earth withou the flesh called? So to make things clearer, I will like to ask you this questions: 1. We both know that the flesh will return back to dust. There is no where in the bible it is stated that this dust will come back as flesh. So in the new earth, paradise or heaven of which we are told that man would continue to live forever, will man be of the soul dwelling in the vessle called flesh or it will be soul alone? 2a. If soul would live forever alone without body, does this not prove that soul is a different entity? 2b. Man, a living being is made up of spirit and flesh. (some believe it is a spirit, soul and body). Which ever way in the new earth, there wont be bag of flesh as it would have returned to the dust never to come back again. So we will be left with spirit living as a being. What would you call this spirit? Does this not suggest that the spirit or soul is another entity? |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 2:13pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
^^^ the soul is the real self of Man...the breath of life, the Emi Man as a living soul doesn't mean Man(in flesh) is a soul, it refers to the "self" within the flesh..."living" describes the act of existing in this earthly plain I hope this clears it up |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 5:43pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
macof: Is this soul you are reffering to is what the yoruba call Ori inu? |
Re: Death And Living Forever by edogho(m): 5:58pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
ehen Folykaze, zis ur questions, na as e be e get o, thanks for ur time. I'm one of those who believes d mind assigns dimensions.... I mean that anyone can believe in anything and be comfortable with it. it's how d mind works(I'll like some tutorials on many other workings of d mind sha, I'm not sure what I'm searching on dat topic yet, philfearon dey hoard info) now concerning d topic, I go with the notion that a soul is made up of both spirit and flesh. maybe, just maybe what u are referring to (i.e d one u said D CHRIST was talking about)is what I call d SELF and finally macof now calls it EMI |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:11pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
edogho: Good evening dude. Since you have refused to provide answers to my questions, I dont know how we could get pass through this matrix. The self is not Emi. Emi simply mean breathe or life given force. Is it wrong to call the self soul? |
Re: Death And Living Forever by edogho(m): 6:52pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: Greetings bro, if u say EMI is d breath or life giving force then I'll tell macof not to call d SELF that I speak of an EMI. if u decide to call it a soul, well, from ur questions, are u suggesting man has two souls? one d flesh and d othet one u say man can't kill? don't say I'm responding with a question o (tho it seems so ) it's somehow sha... one thing I know is, all I've been hearing about souls and spirits ain't true, one of d many reasons is "d witches leave their bodies to attend some meetings somewhere talk". I av my reasons |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:16pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
edogho: Emi simply is breathe or life force. It has nothing to do with Soul. I am not arguing that there is two souls in person. My argument is, soul is a separate entity. It is more or less the inner self, personality and the 'I'. Soul is the centre of who we are. I understand where you are coming from when you mentioned that soul is spirit and flesh. And the teaching of soul and spirit which you are trying to point at is more or less JW doctrine. So I am making you see that soul is a separate enity which prompted Jesus statement; that is a separate entity which cant be killed. In the new earth, what is that thing that would live forever when flesh has been destroyed? Answer to this should tell you that there is something distinct from what you insuliate soul is. In philosophy, it is simply the inner self. Lastly, you mention that you dont believe witches live there body. Do you ackownledge that there is something called OUT OF THE BODY EXPERIENCE, Astral Projection and Soul Travellin? OBE is more scientifical but the other ones are more spritual. Also, do you believe one would live in the new earth when the flesh has been destroyed? So why would you acknowledge OBE, believe in ressurection in the new kingdom and choose to disbelieve in witch going out of the body? |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 9:58pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE:No, Ori inu translated as the Ori inside, or the head within(the body), or the consciousness inside, or the deeper mind...one of my posts above (I hope you read it) stated that the deeper mind is the "spirit of God" in popular ideas like christianity This is different from Soul. Ori Inu, or simply Ori is the direct link of The Spirit of the universe(Eledumare) in Man. Ori is the fuel to our existence in any form we find ourselves[see my comment above]...Infact Ori is what establishes us as whatever form we find ourselves...why do you think Yoruba say "Ori mi, eleda mi" -Ori ni Eleda eniyan" In Eji-ogbe, Ori was first venerated as the one who set up the Orisha in their various Towns and patron cities Further in Ifa Orunmila taught that Ori creates us in where we find ourselves and the conditions we find ourselves...I think this was Otura-ogbe Ori exists in everything unlike soul that only exists in sentient beings(Man and Animal) ori inu is completely different from soul |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 10:20pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
edogho: Emi means "life force"...the act of living is synonymous with the act of breathing Only living things breath...so breath is life and life is Emi..don't you think? Many don't know that it's two spirts in Man...the Life force(Soul) and the "spirit of God" in Man this life force is also our sentience, which provides us with subjectivity and emotions that mold our personality...what then is the "self" you speak if not the primal force of our personality? |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 10:40pm On Jan 28, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE:Wats your idea of self? for me it's our Personality which is from the soul. unless u think the soul isn't the life giving force |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:48am On Jan 29, 2015 |
macof: Bro, you are getting so many things wrong here. I dont know if you could put more light on this topic, you could be right. But from the way I perceive things, you err big time. Ori is the samething as Ori Inu. It is termed Ori Inu so as to differentiate it from Ori (Head). Ori or Ori Inu is the soul of a person. In Yoruba thought, a person is made up of ara (body), emi (life giving force) and Ori (Spiritual head). Ara (body) refers to the tangible that make a person both externally and internally such as the brain, kidney, intestine, hearth etc. and not just the body frame which houses other constitutes of a person. Emi (life giving force), the Yoruba believe, is an immaterial force that provides the animating force or energy without which a person cannot be said to be living talkless of conscious. It is closely associated with breathe and the whole mechanism of breathing. It is the life giving force of a person; its presence or absence in a person make the difference between life and death. The third component, Ori is the central concept of human personality. It represent person's personality and represent human destiny. The Yoruba are said to believe that the personality of each individual is encoded in Ori. Ori is determines the life course and personality of it possessor on earth. It also details each individual destiny. Ori which is otherwise called Ori-Inu (inner head) i responsiblr for actuality and worth of man in the phyisical world. It is the eseence of man which rules, control and guides the life and activities of the person. It is the soul, having it physical symbolisation as the physical head. The Ori Ita (outer head) is a representation of the inner head. This is how we came about Ita and Inu. Ori is the inner self, the soul moulded by Ajala. Emi is from Olodumare while Ara is from Orisanla. Adding, Ori exist in everything. . .soul doesnt have anything to do with sentience. Some religion philosophy hold that only human being have soul. This is different from Yoruba thought that sees souls in everything. They see it as Ori, the inner self. Some world religion like jainism, hinduism and othe form of aninism also share this believe. Soul is the self, inner person and the 'I' that inhabit and the body and act through it. Do you know why babalawo touch one Ori with Ikin during consultation? It is because the physical head represent the inner self which is the original and the soul. The summarize verything I have there, Ori is the soul, Emi is the breathe while Ara is the body. |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:51am On Jan 29, 2015 |
macof: Wrong. . .Emi is the life giving force. Ori is the centre of self and individual personality. Personality is from Ori. If you tend to call that soul then it mean Ori is soul. |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 7:54am On Jan 29, 2015 |
macof: In Yoruba, everything is alive. Life is more or less activness.. . . . You cannot pin it down to biology only. Life force is Emi and not soul. Breathe has nothing to do with personality. |
Re: Death And Living Forever by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:10am On Jan 29, 2015 |
Macof. You can download this file if you really need to know much about Ori as soul and other composition of man. http://www.njas.helsinki.fi/pdf-files/vol16num2/ademuleya.pdf |
Re: Death And Living Forever by macof(m): 3:52pm On Jan 29, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE: depends if you consider "life" and "consciousness" as the same thing I don't, I see life as restricted to animate beings that can express subjectivity and emotions there's no Yoruba idea suggesting that rocks are such ...tho as a Yoruba I know rocks are conscious but nt to the extent you taking it...you are going too extreme egbon Am sure its all in the translation factor that differs among people..I understand ur opinion but go back and ask any Babalawo if Rocks have feelings and will As long as only living breathing beings express sentience due to that life force, I maintain that life force is responsible for personality Maybe u are yet to realize the flaw of ur argument but 1. If Ori is the primal core of our personality, then you are suggesting rocks have cognition and emotions...as Yoruba say Everything including rocks have their Ori Only Man and animal have life force according to Ifa, yet all things have consciousness in Eledumare 2. If Ori is our primal personality, then what use is the role of guardian that the same ori plays in our life? Can a blind person guide himself through the edge of a bridge? Or you don't know Ori guides our personality? 3. If Ori is what you say it is then it is Ori that reincarnates. that means reincarnation comes with the same destiny, the same purpose in life, the same fortune...everything the same. 4. Before coming to life, Ifa says we go to Ajala to pick our Ori..if Ori is the primal personality then what is the "we" that goes to ajala before we even acquire an Ori? 5. before every life we pick an Ori from Ajala's house, if the Ori is our only real spiritual substance then reincarnation has no place in Ifa, but we know that's not true, Ifa is very serious about reincarnation. So tell me how come Ifa says each ori to each new life Don't take "emi" for it's literal meaning alone, take it for the concept and relationship with all living beings I'll like you to read up on Greek philosophy if Yoruba philosophy isn't quite clear to you *Psyche(Anima in Latin) |
Re: Death And Living Forever by iamord(m): 4:16pm On Jan 29, 2015 |
FOLYKAZE:thanks for your immense contribution.. That dude does not know what he is reading.. Now I understand why fela said "TEACHER don't Teach ME NONSENSE" a lot of Christians are hypocrites and semi illiterates that refuse to learn. 1 Like |
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