@Bastage,
You claimed the UN gave israel the land, why cant palestinians go to the UN to protest.

A similar body divided Africa into fragments in 1922 why are Africans not in arms. Blowing everything in sight.

Native Americans Aborigines why are they not in arms of were thei lands not taken.

Israel says I dont want Palestinians in my country is their anything wrong with that?

If Gazans want to pass, the should pass through Egypt their fellow Brothers or does brotherly love not cover thing like passage?

Hajifaty is another confused African slave bitching about Arab issues when arabs don't give a hoot bout her own black ass. LOL PATHETIC african muslims getting misled by their Arab masters. I dare her to go to Isreal and fight or better shut up jare

Sagamite:

Whether the largest community remained in Jerusalem or not, the present day Israel was mostly Arab by the 14th century.

Which is why Jordan is 95% arab today. Most of the arab population of "palestine" are jordanians. At least over 90%

Sagamite:

The Ottomans conquered but the population still remained largely Arab just as Ilorin still remains largely Yoruba.

So this is an irrelevant statement.

False. You've dined too often on arab revisionist history.

Sagamite:

The Arabs have been settling there since 636 CE and were a majority by the 14th century. That is enough to say they can claim the land today.

Again false. the largest syrian arab migration occured AFTER the jews had moved in to develop Jerusalem. A lot of historical documents abound refering to much of palestine as arid wasteland.

Sagamite:

Irrelevant statement.

funny because that war is SOLE basis for the Gaza crisis today and the west Bank problem. But for the 1948 war, there would have been no Gaza, no west bank and no bombing. Oh but surely all that is "irrelevant".

I notice every single piece of history that seems to expose your revisionist whining for the arab propaganda it is you regard as "irrelevant statement".

I also notice you are strangely silent on the "strange" fact that when the PLO was created in 1964, its mandate was not about fighting "illegal occupation" at all but about destroying the Jews. there was NO claim of "stealing land" until 1988.

Arafat was actually Egyptian who defected to Jordan to start an uprising to unseat the King . . . following which the PLO was violently expelled in 1970.

Ah but all that is "irrelevant". What of Abass? Another Egyptian stooge . . . not relevant at all. Focus on the Ottomans.

dayokanu:

@Bastage,
You claimed the UN gave israel the land, why can't palestinians go to the UN to protest.

Surely you must be joking?

Or you are a kid that don't understand forces of the world?

Sagamite:

Surely you must be joking?

Or you are a kid that don't understand forces of the world?

the same league of nations gave 85% of Palestine to sheikhs from Mecca, i dont hear protests from any of you.

davidylan:

Which is why Jordan is 95% arab today. Most of the arab population of "palestine" are jordanians. At least over 90%

Irrelevant statement as my point remains.

Arabs still dominated much of present day Israel until WW2.

So whether Iraq is 93.4444% Arab or Mecca is 4% Arab is IRRELEVANT.

The land was Arab until Jews wanted it in the 20th century.

davidylan:

False. You've dined too often on arab revisionist history.

No, son. I deal with facts.

davidylan:

Again false. the largest syrian arab migration occured AFTER the jews had moved in to develop Jerusalem. A lot of historical documents abound refering to much of palestine as arid wasteland.

Yes, Jerusalem.

Supports my facts, Jews were mainly in Jerusalem. Now you are coming around.

davidylan:

funny because that war is SOLE basis for the Gaza crisis today and the west Bank problem.

I notice every single piece of history that seems to expose your revisionist whining for the arab propaganda it is you regard as "irrelevant statement".

The 6 day war has little bearing on the root of the problem, "claiming land that you lost centuries ago". It is an outcome, not the basis. Comprehend?

Don't let your Arab/Muslim hatred blind you. I rely on my objectivity instead.

And if you dig deeper, you will find I am more on the side of Israel than the Arabs but I don't let my allegiance blind my objectivity.

Sagamite:

Surely you must be joking?

Or you are a kid that don't understand forces of the world?

i'm not sure you understand the forces of the arab world either. By now every literate person knows the arab problem with Israel is not about "illegal occupation". If it were then i wonder why there are no violent uprisings against Jordan or Syria who invaded Lebanon for 22yrs.

davidylan:

the same league of nations gave 85% of Palestine to sheikhs from Mecca, i don't hear protests from any of you.

Son, try and understand that the League of Nations is different to UN.

And why should I protest about a case that the primary impactees don't have a problem with.

That is as lame as telling me to complain about a polygamous marriage arrangement when all the women involved are happy with it.

Sagamite:

Irrelevant statement as my point remains.

Arabs still dominated much of present day Israel until WW2.

So whether Iraq is 93.4444% Arab or Mecca is 4% Arab is IRRELEVANT.

The land was Arab until Jews wanted it in the 20th century.

you keep repeating this baseless arab propaganda like clockwork while bleating about "dealing with facts".

Sagamite:

Yes, Jerusalem.

Wonder how jerusalem was arid wasteland and Tel Aviv was crawling with arabs. Must exist only in the minds of the clueless.

Sagamite:

Supports my facts, Jews were mainly in Jerusalem. Now you are coming around.

which is why all land east of the Jordan River is arab today.

Sagamite:

The 6 day war has little bearing on the root of the problem, "claiming land that you lost centuries ago". It is an outcome, not the basis. Comprehend?

quite strange as Gaza and the West Bank didnt fall into Israeli hands unti 1967 6-day war. Prior to that there was NO PEEP from any soul for Egypt to leave Gaza to "palestinians".

Sagamite:

Don't let your Arab/Muslim hatred blind you. I rely on my objectivity instead.

Now that was funny.

Sagamite:

And if you dig deeper, you will find I am more on the side of Israel than the Arabs but I don't let my allegiance blind my objectivity.

dont break my ribs pls.

davidylan:

i'm not sure you understand the forces of the arab world either. By now every literate person knows the arab problem with Israel is not about "illegal occupation". If it were then i wonder why there are no violent uprisings against Jordan or Syria who invaded Lebanon for 22yrs.

Son, did you read my message list to the Palestinians or were you just blinded by fury that I dared to condemn Israel and stopped reading?

davidylan:

you keep repeating this baseless arab propaganda like clockwork while bleating about "dealing with facts".

Wonder how jerusalem was arid wasteland and Tel Aviv was crawling with arabs. Must exist only in the minds of the clueless.

which is why all land east of the Jordan River is arab today.

quite strange as Gaza and the West Bank didnt fall into Israeli hands unti 1967 6-day war. Prior to that there was NO PEEP from any soul for Egypt to leave Gaza to "palestinians".

Now that was funny.

don't break my ribs please.

Now all these is gibberish and irrelevant, so i don't know where to start.

Lame points. *scratching my head*

Sagamite:

Son, try and understand that the League of Nations is different to UN.

And why should I protest about a case that the primary impactees don't have a problem with.

That is as lame as telling me to complain about a polygamous marriage arrangement when all the women involved are happy with it.

Pursuing red herrings again eh?

That is not the issue. the issue is simple - Jordan belongs to sheikhs from Mecca . . . if the hullabaloo about Israel is really about "illegally occupied" land then why is everyone ignoring Jordan which is a good 5 times larger than Israel?

Sagamite:

Now all these is gibberish and irrelevant, so i don't know where to start.

Lame points. *scratching my head*

yeah, when you cant counter them with reasonable arguments that are tenable simply label them lame.
what's new?

Saying the 6-day war has nothing to do with the present crisis in Gaza completely makes nonsense of the rest of your noise.

Like i said earlier, i cant be bothered to debunk claims that are built on the shifting sands of ignorance.

Gaza belonged to Egypt until 1967, no one cried about "illegal occupation".

davidylan:

yeah, when you can't counter them with reasonable arguments that are tenable simply label them lame.  
what's new?

See who is talking?  

So those were reasonable arguments by you?

Words like propaganda, revisionist etc and you are accusing others of labelling.

Men, you have made me lose a rib.

Sagamite:

Son, did you read my message list to the Palestinians or were you just blinded by fury that I dared to condemn Israel and stopped reading?

I read it line by line which is why i wonder if you even read the very statement of mine that you quote: i'm not sure you understand the forces of the arab world either. By now every literate person knows the arab problem with Israel is not about "illegal occupation". If it were then i wonder why there are no violent uprisings against Jordan or Syria who invaded Lebanon for 22yrs.

I wrote that to counter the frankly false arab propaganda you posted on your message list to the Israelis. they havent stolen any lands.

Sagamite:

See who is talking?

So those were reasonable arguments by you?

Words like propaganda, revisionist etc and you are accusing others of labelling.

Men, you have made me lose a rib.

ah . . . we have no more points its "personal" time now? I beg to take my leave until more reasoned arguments return.

davidylan:

Pursuing red herrings again eh?

That is not the issue. the issue is simple - Jordan belongs to sheikhs from Mecca . . . if the hullabaloo about Israel is really about "illegally occupied" land then why is everyone ignoring Jordan which is a good 5 times larger than Israel?

Son, did you see any Jordanian complaining?

If the populace of Jordan want to be ruled by the sons and descendents of Muhammed so the can enter heaven with 3451 virgins, what is your business?

Is that too hard for you to comprehend? You are blinded by Muslim/Arab hatred.

Oh, sorry, let me clarify first. Are you Jordanian? Or do you have some jordanians complaining to you or using you as their lawyer?

@Sagamite,

You have put yourself in such a dilema. You have infered that Arabs have a rightful claim on the land becuase they conquered it in 636 BC (though really it was not the Arabs).  If they can claim the land through conquest, will Isreal be justified then if they hold on to all the land they conquered, including Gaza as recently as 1967?

Claiming that Arabs should be given the title of the land becuase of their population is in effect saying that the native Indians should be sent packing now that they are no longer the dominant ethnic group in the US!! Arab/muslim population is exploding in Europe. Very soon, they will use your argument to send the locals out into the sea.

Sagamite:

Son, did you see any Jordanian complaining?

If the populace of Jordan want to be ruled by the sons and descendents of Muhammed so the can enter heaven with 3451 virgins, what is your business?

Is that too hard for you to comprehend? You are blinded by Muslim/Arab hatred.

Oh, sorry, let me clarify first. Are you Jordanian? Or do you have some jordanians complaining to you or using you as their lawyer?

Jordanians arent complaining and that exactly is the point. The problem with Israel is NOT illegal land but religion. If it were why has Jordan steadfastly refused to take back the West Bank since Israel offered it back to them immediately after the 6-day war?

You sir, are blinded by the need to sound important hence the incredulous use of the terms "son". A bit more reading up on history would be in order so you dont come here to make a fool of urself.

davidylan:

Saying the 6-day war has nothing to do with the present crisis in Gaza completely makes nonsense of the rest of your noise.

Like i said earlier, i can't be bothered to debunk claims that are built on the shifting sands of ignorance.

Gaza belonged to Egypt until 1967, no one cried about "illegal occupation".

If the Gazans do not complain about Egypt ruling them so what is your concern?

Please tell me.

Tayo-D:

@Sagamite,

You have put yourself in such a dilema. You have infered that Arabs have a rightful claim on the land becuase they conquered it in 636 BC (though really it was not the Arabs).  If they can claim the land through conquest, will Isreal be justified then if they hold on to all the land they conquered, including Gaza as recently as 1967?

Claiming that Arabs should be given the title of the land becuase of their population is in effect saying that the native Indians should be sent packing now that they are no longer the dominant ethnic group in the US!! Arab/muslim population is exploding in Europe. Very soon, they will use your argument to send the locals out into the sea.

thank you sir for those salient points.

Since arabs now have claims to Israel thanks to a conquest in 636BC, why is sagamite foaming in the mouth that Israel get out of Gaza or the west bank that it RECLAIMED in 1967 by conquest?

On the issue of population dominance, perhaps that is why the hausas are about to drive us out of nigeria. Sagamite must be pleased with his own clever ideas.

Sagamite:

If the Gazans do not complain about Egypt ruling them so what is your concern?

Please tell me.

it tells me that:

a. The Gaza issue is not about "illegal occupation" because Israel left Gaza 3-yrs ago and YET we are still hearing talk of "resistance". Resistance to what now? tel aviv?

b. If Gaza was palestinian land AT ALL . . . then why were they silent for 19yrs of Egyptian subjugation? Pls bear in mind that during that period, Gaza was really a refugee slum.

c. You dont understand your history beyond parroting arab propaganda.

davidylan:

I read it line by line which is why i wonder if you even read the very statement of mine that you quote: i'm not sure you understand the forces of the arab world either. By now every literate person knows the arab problem with Israel is not about "illegal occupation". If it were then i wonder why there are no violent uprisings against Jordan or Syria who invaded Lebanon for 22yrs.

I wrote that to counter the frankly false arab propaganda you posted on your message list to the Israelis. they havent stolen any lands.

So what led you to the belief that I don't understand that it is not all about illegal land occupation? Despite me putting the infidel and living peacefully stuff?

To hard to comprehend?

davidylan:

Jordanians arent complaining and that exactly is the point. The problem with Israel is NOT illegal land but religion. If it were why has Jordan steadfastly refused to take back the West Bank since Israel offered it back to them immediately after the 6-day war?

You sir, are blinded by the need to sound important hence the incredulous use of the terms "son". A bit more reading up on history would be in order so you don't come here to make a fool of yourself.

I will suggest you take your own advice as you looked like a fool when you said the Jews have been in Israel all this while when they were only a minority there until their migration back.

Tayo-D:

@Sagamite,

You have put yourself in such a dilema. You have infered that Arabs have a rightful claim on the land becuase they conquered it in 636 BC (though really it was not the Arabs).  If they can claim the land through conquest, will Isreal be justified then if they hold on to all the land they conquered, including Gaza as recently as 1967?

Claiming that Arabs should be given the title of the land becuase of their population is in effect saying that the native Indians should be sent packing now that they are no longer the dominant ethnic group in the US!! Arab/muslim population is exploding in Europe. Very soon, they will use your argument to send the locals out into the sea.

No, Tayo D, I have not got my self in a dilemma.

Wars were fought in the olden days to claim land. By the time these places are established as a state in the civilised world it becomes unacceptable to try and reclaim the land for [here is the keywords] yourself only. You can choose to be recognised there under the laws of the land (which must be fair).

So Ireland can not go back to Northern Ireland to claim it.
Yorubas can not go to Ilorin to claim it.
Mongolia can not claim Southern Mongolia.

What is lost before civilisation is lost. Your forefathers should have fought better.

davidylan:

it tells me that:

a. The Gaza issue is not about "illegal occupation" because Israel left Gaza 3-years ago and YET we are still hearing talk of "resistance". Resistance to what now? tel aviv?

b. If Gaza was palestinian land AT ALL . . . then why were they silent for 19yrs of Egyptian subjugation? please bear in mind that during that period, Gaza was really a refugee slum.

c. You don't understand your history beyond parroting arab propaganda.

Look, if the Palestianians want to eat shi*t (igbe) under the Egyptians in their own land, that is not the worlds concern. If they are happy with it, that is fine.

If Morocco says: "You know what, we want Saudi Arabia to set our laws" that is not your concern.

Palestinians don't want the Jews to take over their land, that is a valid argument on my side.

But for them to say, Jews must not exist or live in or around Arab world is what I have a problem with.

And that is not Arab propaganda, it is called LOGIC.

Sagamite:

I will suggest you take your own advice as you looked like a fool when you said the Jews have been in Israel all this while when they were only a minority there until their migration back.

English shouldnt be a problem to you even though i seriously doubt logic isnt.

Now you read your own statement in bold again - whether the jews were a minority or majority, it doesnt nullify that there has ALWAYS been a jewish community in Israel no?

Ok one more thing . . . when you talk of "majority population of Israel" . . . you make the same fundamental mistake arab apologists like you DELIBERATELY prefer to make . . .

The British mandate of Palestine = Gaza + West Bank + Israel + Jordan.

Now the majority population of the mandate of Palestine was arab (which is why over 703,000 arabs populated Jordan - 5 times the size of Israel as at 1922 and 1.2 million in 1948) . . . hardly a large "majority".

You would have been correct to say arabs were the majority population in the BM of Palestine but NOT Israel.

Sagamite:

Wars were fought in the olden days to claim land. By the time these places are established as a state in the civilised world it becomes unacceptable to try and reclaim the land for [here is the keywords] yourself only. You can choose to be recognised there under the laws of the land (which must be fair).

which is kinda odd because the arab claim to Gaza and the West Bank is based on their conquest of the land in 636 AD.

Sagamite:

What is lost before civilisation is lost. Your forefathers should have fought better.

which is why i wonder why Israel is being forced to give up Gaza and the West Bank.

Oh sorry i forgot, one rule for others another for the jews. Talk of objectivity.

Sagamite:

Look, if the Palestianians want to eat shi*t (igbe) under the Egyptians in their own land, that is not the worlds concern. If they are happy with it, that is fine.

If Morocco says: "You know what, we want Saudi Arabia to set our laws" that is not your concern.

Palestinians don't want the Jews to take over their land, that is a valid argument on my side.

But for them to say, Jews must not exist or live in or around Arab world is what I have a problem with.

And that is not Arab propaganda, it is called LOGIC.

It cant be called "logic" at all because:

1. there was NO palestinian arab land now or ever before. What we had was an Ottoman empire.

2. Prior to 1948, Gaza was jewish . . . before Egypt claimed it. Judea/Samaria was jewish before Jordan claimed it in war. So just what "land" are these "palestinians" (formally known as Syrian and Jordanian arabs) demanding?

3. When the PLO was set up in 1964, why didnt they make mention of any "land"?

Sagamite,
I am puzzled at the way some Africans support the Arabs blindly despite their numerous atrocities against us. I can remember vividly how some Muslims in the north were protesting, killing and burning churches in the aftermath of the Arab Israeli war.
But, these same northerners were silent when Arab-backed militias are killing, uprooting Africans from their ancestral lands.
Sagamite, can you compare the way Africans are treated in the west compared to the Arab lands.

The same way the Arabs enslaved us and profited from a very lucrative trans-Sahara slave trade. however, revisionists would like us to believe the Arabs treated their African slaves better by sleeping with their women and turning their men into eunuchs.
More black Africans have been killed, raped in darfur and Mauritania than in palestine.
Yet, the Arab league currently crying foul now have constantly blocked all attempts by the UN to pass any meaningful resolution aimed at solving this problem and alleviating the suffering of our African brothers.

Well I have been monitoring this thing closely but the only thing I failed to understand is why even the Media are not reporting it all this while Hamas was firing rocket into Israel, Isreali Defence Minister just ask a wonderul question, (will America wait upto 24 Hours to retaliate if some millitants from Mexico attack San Diego ?) no one can answer yes, Isreal is killing people who want to die, who don't have value for their lifes, the same faith will apply to our Muslim brothers in Northern States of Nigeria one day.

I urge every one on this thread to read up a little on the facts.

There is no doubt Hamas actions were dumb and illegal, but many Israel supporters do not realize that even today (2008), land is still being forcibly taken. You can be a palestinian and have a title deed to land, and the next day jewish settlers arrive, and just start building on your land. You dare to speak out, and you meet the Israeli army.

The people in Gaza cant even escape to other countries  or trade to better them selves. they have been hemmed in with walls,  separated form the West Bank on land no one is even disputing is theirs! How can this be justice. Does anyone here really think this is a Godly or fair thing to do.

Israel loves the Hamas-Fatah split, because they hope while they are distracted, they can consolidate more land, then decimate Hamas so that a corrupt and ineffective Fatah comes back into power. This is naked colonialism, in the 21st century.

idiopathic:

Sagamite,
I am puzzled at the way some Africans support the Arabs blindly despite their numerous atrocities against us. I can remember vividly how some Muslims in the north were protesting, killing and burning churches in the aftermath of the Arab Israeli war.
But, these same northerners were silent when Arab-backed militias are killing, uprooting Africans from their ancestral lands.
Sagamite, can you compare the way Africans are treated in the west compared to the Arab lands.

Are you suggesting that because you have been poorly treated by Arabs, the palestinians deserve the same? If maltreating Darfuris is wrong, then maltreating Palestinians must be wrong too.