olabowale:

@Havila:
Quote 1: Infact, if the whole world were to gether up and declare its enemity against this religion, they will indeed fail and in the day of judgement will have their due justice.
Quote 2: I will concur with you that you can be an enemy to the Muslims. I know, today, muslims are viewed with a negative eye, because of many reasons.  However, the justice of consciously rejecting Islam is a certain reality that will definately come in the day of judgement.
Quote 3: Most people think that the office of the Caliphate will not happen. It will happen. Give it time. For 99 years, the Christians

@Olabowale,
Response 1: Seriously, you should consider taking up 'poetry' writing; you will be good at it. Now, the whole right-thinking world has already declared war on the ideology of Islamic fascism; there is no turning back because their is only one option-Victory is assured. This is not about me, it is about ideology of peace, freedom, progress versus ideology of hate and oppresion. Islam has always been viewed with negative eye because it is negative from the beginning. That is why millions are leaving and rejecting the 'religion' in droves around the world even in Arab countries hence the resort to intimidation and threat for 'apostates' by islamic authorities. But truth cannot be hidden. The voice of Islam is in retreat and it will always be by the grace of God, Amen.

(2) As I said before, I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST MUSLIMS; seriously many of you really refuse to know more about your religion and you are not encouraged to do so; because those who decided to truthfully validate their 'islamic beliefs' against their God given conscience ALWAYS end up rejecting Islam. That is why we will continue to expose all about the religion as well as the lifestyle and life of the so-called prophet for the world to appraise!!!. The works and plans of the Ummahs in Iran/Lebanon/Syria/Saudi Arabia will be exposed!!! And we will continue to preach the messages of hope, freedom, grace and mercies of God available through Lord Jesus Christ which has been ordained before the ages.
It is not enough for you to say "muslims are being viewed with negative eyes in the world now", you should wonder why, in truth to yourself, and it will be obvious to you.

(3) Thirdly, many of us Christians believe, and rightly so, that the Caliphate will happen because he is the anti-christ but the anti-christ has no hold on those whose Lord and Savious is Jesus Christ because we will not be under his rulership. Maybe you should write out the characteristics of the Caliphate from the Quran; and then read about the Anti-Christ in the book of Revelations and the epistles of John, then you can compare and contrast. The similarities will surprise you.

nilla:

_{*wondering when this thread will end*}

Well dear,
Until the ideology of hate/Islamic fascism is removed or changed, it will be dangerous to relax. Europe has woken up to its' past mistakes which allowed islamic extremists to take root and they are being 'rooted up' all over now.
Just this morning, a young and brilliant Christian Lebanese politician, Pierre Gamayel, was killed in Beirut, making him the fourth anti-Syrian politician to be killed recently. This is the handiwork of islamic extremists Hezbollah who want to bring down a democratically elected government in Lebanon so as to declare an Islamic state in a secular country; and have you heard any Islamic nation or Islamic leaders condemn Hizbolla's attempt? No!!. You might think that is not your business but let me paint the picture for you: The plan is to topple the government of Lebanon and thus surround Israel on all sides by hostile Islamic nations; drive out United Nations bases and troops in Lebanon; provide a fertile ground for breeding radical extremist who will be a threat to you whereever you are; further continue their indoctrination of hate against Europe and America.  All their muhammed-prescribed 'triumphantism' plans are known and being confronted, that is why they are crying 'victimisation' when they are the subtle aggressors. My dear, we are living in dangerous times now, but we know that their ideology of hate and subtle 'triumphantism' will be defeated as it was defeated before. Evil can never overcome our collective belief in freedom and truth. ISLAM has shot itself in the foot, it is limping now and will fall soon. It is an EVIL, hate-filled ideology.!!!

Havila,
Terrorism is still not a muslim problem.

@Babyosisi: The History of the Islam of Muhammad (AS), is very complex. You have to have strong heart, immensed in true belief. This is the foundation of altimate success. Babyosisi, your christian website giving desitation about Islam's war is a pure source of confusion. I see why that any one with a good soul and a pure heart will leave Christianity upon seeing the shameless lies the people of knowledge from it tell against Islam.

You should ask this people at the site to give you any fight that the muslims got involved in before badr, which occured in Ramadan of 2AH. Muhammad (AS) and his companions (RA), spent 13 years in makka, being oppressed to the point that some went on minor migrations to Ethiopia, seeking the protection of a 'Just' Christian King, who later died as a Muslim. Tell me, when in the 13 years in Makka did the muslims race any Cain?

Ask this liers at the site, if they could tell you when was the first incursion and what was it known by. They will tell you nothing, because, there was none, until Badr. The reason for Badr was not that the Muslims were itching fr war. The muslims wanted the Makkans to compensate them for the properties which left behind in Makka. I am sure you will understand that even a lamb push against the wall may just turn around to bite, even without the Incisors and Canines!

Read Suratul Anfal Chapter 8, known as the Spoil of war, verses 5-19 will be sufficient . From it you will find that the Muslims who were fasting were reluctant warriors, but God the Almighty has ordained this fight for them. The time had came for them to become fearless and to have strong hearts. If you read the books on Islamic wars, you will find that in Badr, the Muslims were located in a place where it was possible for them to have total control of the water from the Well of Badr. But the Muslims even showed tremendous mercy on their enemies by allowing them to fetch enough water according to their needs.

People fight person to person, in those days. The battle of Badr was no different. Ali bin Abi Talib was the first to step out to fight for Islam. He was a young man, but he had a great belief, not wavering and never compromising. Compromising in the matter of religion is unIslamic. Muhammad (AS), prayed to Allah to defeat the Makkans in the blatant displace of arrogance and hatred for Islam and Muslims (Those who do not associate anything with Allah in all things including worshi). The Almighty revealed to Muhammad to throw a handful of dirt in the direction of this disbelieving people. Babyosisi, you need to read the story and you will see that Allah is the Only One that can honor or debase a soul, a people a nation. Let us wait and we will see the decision of the Most Powerful, alway complete in His Majesty.

About Khalifah Yaazid, this is not my problem. His action about killing the grandson of the Noble Prophet is a fullfilment of the Hadith of Myhammad about this and others.Muhammad loved those grandsons and i will leave Yaazid's case to his Lord. My case to my Lord, directly without going through anyone. Tell me in the 23 years of the prophethood, let me know how many people that Muhammad Killed or ordered killed, then I will tell you their evil deeds.Today, the psudo kindness of the Christian leadership around the world, show me any good that they did without a selfish underpinnings,then i will tell you many blatant evil actions that even you in your nature can not see or feel that you need not confess this to your friends or fellow human. You must never forget anybody can have their own twist on any particular issue. The Muslims who are claiming that anybody can be killed unjustly and using ethnic hatred as the reason do not have any Islam in them or they are hiding their real religious position. God declares that you shouldn't be unjust to anyone because of your dislike for their behavour or who they are. Nor should you be unjust to them because of your hatred of their hatred of you. All that I have said are in Qur'an and Hadirh.

Unfortunately, most muslims are no closely attached to Islam. No wonder that we are in this terrible condition. However, we will continue to seek improvement. The office of Khalifah of Islam will be occupied again. God Himself will have the office alive again, InshaAllah. You will see in Suratul Fayh (Victory), where Allah confirms to His messenger that Muhammad and his band will enter Makka, victoriously. It happened without a single drop of blood.

Think about this.

Sometimes i really cant see what we are achieving here. we dont seem to want to talk to each other or even try to understand. its so sad. i only take solace in the fact that Allahu Subhanahu wa Taala has stated in the Holy Quran that guidance is His. If myself and bro. Olabowale spend the whole season trying to make you atleast hear our Nasiha, you were always determined to resist and object. May Almighty Allah continue to guide us all to the straight path. Amen. The truth shall prevail one day. Islam is peace

belloti:

If myself and bro. Olabowale spend the whole season trying to make you atleast hear our Nasiha, you were always determined to resist and object.

And the bible says, RESIST THE DEVIL AND HE WILL FLEE FROM YOU! We are only obeying His commandments. We resist not just because we "are always determined to resist" but because we will have no part with lies, unbelief and works of darkness.

belloti:

May Almighty Allah continue to guide us all to the straight path. Amen. The truth shall prevail one day. Islam is peace

1. There is NO straight path in Islam, that was another phrase subtly borrowed from the bible!

2. Islam is no more about peace than Babangida stands for integrity! Remove the wool from your eyes and behold the evil that Mohammed brought on the world, look at the world's trouble spots today, it is NO coincidence that they are all in areas with largely muslim majority!!

belloti:

Sometimes I really can't see what we are achieving here.

I pray God will open your eyes, heart and mind to "see"; and not only to see but the grace to "act" upon what you know to be true, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

belloti:

If myself and bro. Olabowale spend the whole season trying to make you at least hear our Nasiha, you were always determined to resist and object.

Dear Belloti/Olabowale:
Let me tell you guys a personal story like Olabowale usually does , so that you will know I am not resisting you or have anything against muslims; but resisting and rejecting that your message of Islam.
As a young man in my late teens and early twenties, my 'best friend' was a 50 something year old man. His first child and myself were mates in secondary school. I learnt a lot from him, about love and respect for your neighbours, about forgiving the enemy, about life in general. Rather than hang around with my age mates then, I usually enjoy and prefer sitting with him and just listening to him talk about life and experience. Some of my short holidays from university in Nigeria then, I spent with him and his family because my parents live in the US. A well loved and respected man with christians and muslim friends. A man who has weathered all  sorts of troubles personally and in his work but his emphasis in life was on love, forgiveness of enemies. His children became more or less my brothers and sisters becase of his love. You know what, HE IS A MUSLIM!!! but totally NOT ISLAMIC. Whenever his local imam comes to his house and sees me there, his countenance was always disapproving of my closeness to the family and must have complained about this behind my back. Because to the 'islamic' Imam, I am a 'kafir', 'infidel', 'unbeliever' and an 'enemy' and he can't understand how I can be allowed in the house of a 'muslim'. That imam is a muslim, who is TOTALLY ISLAMIC in his body, spirit and soul; well that's why he is the 'imam'!!, kaji ba?
Don't think that my opinion is based on the imam's behavious, that will be very very myopic or short-sighted; it is based on my carefully researched understanding of Islam. That is why I said earlier that if you evaluate it truthfully against your God given conscience, you will realize it is not the truth. It is not a religion based on Love or peace although it claims to be "peace".

olabowale:

Unfortunately, most muslims are no closely attached to Islam.

Well, I heave a sigh of relief, because if they do things will be more dangerous that it is now. Hopefully, they will detach completely and come unto peace in Jesus name.

olabowale:

. Tell me in the 23 years of the prophethood, let me know how many people that Muhammad Killed or ordered killed, then I will tell you their evil deeds.Today, the psudo kindness of the Christian leadership around the world, show me any good that they did without a selfish underpinnings,then i will tell you many blatant evil actions that even you in your nature can not see or feel that you need not confess this to your friends or fellow human. You must never forget anybody can have their own twist on any particular issue.  All that I have said are in Qur'an and Hadirh.

.

So you admit he really did kill people.
Where was his mercy?
What type of example was he?
How many did Christ kill?

The same 'justified' killings of Mohammed of those who did him wrong is the same reason his followers today kill those who do them wrong.
Doesn't need much intelligence to comprehend.

@Havila: My saying that the Muslims are poorly attached to Islam, their religion isto serve as a reminder to me and muslims about our poor observance of Islam. If Muslims are strongly and sincerely observing their religion, you will find peace and transquillity on earth. So your heaving a sigh of relief is presumptious and really lightfooted, if you know the benefit of having truly believing Muslims in your mist.

In the Qur'an, Allah says in Suratul Fath (Victory Chapter 48, verse 29) that the the Believers have a trace of submission on their face, and in the unadulterate books of old before Qur'an they were described very clearly in them. When I learnt about this believer's quality in Qur'an, I began to pay attention to the faces of people, immediately after the Salah. I notice, always the calmness on the face and in general the Muslims are younger looking with more radiant skin, free of skin deseases! Havila, do your research and do not make any assertion that is at best full of emotional irrationality, but alway without substance. I am not attacking you, but I am removing the weak foundation and the footing of your statement about Islam. You should look up the description of true believer in the Qur'an.  Think about it.

Earlier, you indicated that you have material source that provides proof that the Qur'an has 'ever' been changed  in sentences and words. Please provide title and author. Further you had used the dead sea Scroll as your yardstick to talk about the complete authenicity of the Bible. If I follow your statement, then I must ask you that does the Dead Sea scroll contain every word, verse, chapter, book in the Bible, without antthing missing therein. Everything from the beginning of genesis to the end of Revelation. If revelation is the last book. If then the Dead sea scroll does not contain everything, then your statement, falls on its face, again, unless you can give us a better explanation to prop it up. Do you believe the Old testament as much as you believe the new . I am just curious.

The fact that Muhammad was an illiterate, as it was your statement. It is true that he was an illiterate, but do not you think that his Book that he claimed that was revealed to him is more than a work of a common illiterate, who has no special support. Indeed a support that is extra ordinary, a Supernatural power/support at that, seeing very clearly the completeness of this work. Yet he was not arrogant and try to usurp the fame of it all, giving all credit to his Lord, who (whom) he calls Allah? Has there been such an illiterate with such a phenomenon in the whole history of man, before jesus and after jesus, other than Muhammad (AS, to allof the prophets), alone? If you look at all the prophets, they have the same characteristics as Muhammad; all men, all from noble families among their people, all were shephards, all wore beard and all were shy people, almost to bashfulness.

You must know that all of the Qur'an was not revealed in makka and the cave you mentiond is in Makka and still there even as we speak. Further, there were witnesses to the majority of the piece meal revelations. They included male and female, many and few, day and night.

Finally, the Qur'an says that your Bible is corrupted. I had provided the verses in earlier entries. Your Bible complains that the pens of the scribes have changed the words in the Bible from its original places. These two statements mean the same thing. The Qur'an is right and the Bible proves it, very directly. Doesnt it?

Yeah olabowole some of the revelations were under the sheets with his child bride.
You amaze me,if the Bible is changed don't you think the passage you quote so erroneously would have been taken out if that's what it meant?

a part of a great article.
See the passages they want you to forget,how peaceful are they?

[b]For the sake of knowing who we are at war with and why, let me quote some scriptures from the Koran:
· “Martyrdom is therefore the ONLY way for a Muslim to obtain forgiveness of sins” Surat Al – Tawbah 9:111
· “Jihad (fighting for Allah’s cause) is ordained for you” Surat Al-Baqarah 2:216
· “Kill the Mushrikun (non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush” Surat Al-Taubah 9:5
· “they (non-Muslims) shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land” Surat Al Maidah 5:33
· “And if you are killed or die in the Way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all that they amass” Surat Al Taubah 9:111
There are many more verses in the Koran that call for the killing and maiming of Christians, Jews and non-believers.

The Prophet Mohammad and the Koran says that any Muslim who is killed in battle against infidels will receive eternal life and total forgiveness of his sins. It is important to know that the Koran gives Muslims no assurance of forgiveness of their sins unless they martyr themselves by killing or being killed in battle against the infidels. The Koran states that Muslims will go to hell unless they are forgiven of their sins. The only way that the Koran provides for forgiveness of sins it to kill, maim or be killed in battle against Christians, Jews and non-believers of Islam.

The book, “Marriage and Sex in Islam, Pages 133-134, states “Mohammad the Messenger of Allah said: The Muslim will be given in paradise the strength of a hundred men to enable him to have sex there. The Muslim will have sex with a hundred virgins every day.’ He also said, ‘By Allah, we will have thrilling sex in paradise. And women in paradise will be made virgins again after every intercourse.’ These sayings of Muhammad were documented by Tarmazi and Tabarai.”

This is the mindset of the Jihadists. This is why mothers will kiss their sons and daughters goodbye, with glee, as their children strap explosives around their waists and blow themselves and other innocent people up. You see, martyrdom (murder) is the only way that they can be assured that all of their sins are forgiven and that they will spend an eternity in a sexual paradise. They will also be able to drink rivers of wine (they cannot drink wine in their earthly lives) and have lovely young boys. Allah has to keep his promise that as a result of their killing or being killed by the infidels, they will be in paradise.

Have you ever wondered why it is that when a Muslim terrorist kills, he says, “Allah is Great”? The reason is they believe that Allah does the work of killing infidels through them. In other words, Allah uses their bodies to commit murder. This is why these fanatics have no guilt when they slay the innocent. They praise Allah for performing the murders.

There are over a billion Muslims in the world today. One of the reasons for the spread of Islam is that in their history, the innocents were taken by the sword. There were many religions in the Islam nations before Mohammad proclaimed that Islam should be the only religion on the earth. Muhammad did not offer any other option. Mohammad invaded Syria, Spain, Iran and other countries and took them by the sword for Allah in to the religion of Islam. If the people would not accept Islam, they would either be murdered, maimed by having one hand and one foot cut off on opposite sides, or they would have to pay taxes to Muhammad in order to live.

Another reason for the steady growth of Islam is due to polygamy. Muhammad said Muslim men could have up to four wives and also concubines. Four wives can produce many children. Since Muslim men are limited to four wives at the time, when a wife gets to old he can just pronounce “I divorce you” three times and he is divorced. This leaves him free to marry a younger woman and to have more children. He can divorce all four at one time and marry four new wives.

Muhammad was not limited by his own rule to just four wives. Muhammad had 14 wives plus concubines. When Muhammad was 53 years old he married a 6-year-old little girl and had sex with her when she was 9. This opened up the door for others to marry children and commit pedophilia.

I think it is interesting that the word, Islam, means submission. In the book, “Islam, Muhammad and the Koran, the author, Dr. Labib Mikhail states: “Today, we hear on radio and Television many Muslim clerics say that Islam means “peace”. But the word Islam means “submission” and a Muslim is one who is in submission to Allah. Their goal as stated in the Koran is to bring the entire world in to submission to Allah and the Koran under a Muslim Caliph and to have a global Islamic empire[color=#990000][/color].

This is Islam today, the same Islam of yesterday. Americans, Jews and Christians should be aware of this.”

Muslims are called to literally follow the Koran, therefore, officially, all Muslims are called to kill the infidels. It has been said that one of the Muslim strategies is to make friends with your enemies until you gain enough strength to overpower them. It is a great public relations achievement to twist an extremely violent religion around to be perceived as a religion of peace.

As in many religions, many innocent people get caught up in to beliefs that have nothing to do with the religion that they are a part of. I would challenge anyone to go back through the history of their religion to see the truth about what their religion is based on. The Koran is a violent book. The Koran preaches murder, invasion and gives no free will to choose any other religion. If a Muslim exercises his free will to leave Islam, he has to do so under the real threat of death.

A true religion of God will not be based upon false prophets who make up religions engineered to suit their own needs, nor will it command us to murder others. Only a religion from Satan would command the killing of innocent people.

I have several Muslim friends who I like and care for. I truly do not think they know their religion’s history. They believe that they are in a peaceful religion. However, if Mohammad were alive today, he would turn on them as he turned on so many of his own people who did not follow his commands.

We are not at war over oil, we are not at war over Iraq, we are not at war based on alleged false information, we are not at war because of President Bush. We are in a war based on a spiritual battle of good and evil. Why do you think our enemies call this war a “Holy War”? Our enemies truly believe that anyone who rejects the Koran, Mohammad and Islam are subhuman and deserve to be murdered in cold blood.

I say to all Americans, please wake up to the truth, and personally, I’m really tired of the “PC” police in America who will not let people speak the plain truth straight out. We are not a free nation if we are not allowed to identify evil and call it what it is.

Our soldiers are fighting a real battle with an enemy who is committed to the commandment of Mohammad to kill us in the name of Allah. This type of fanaticism will not go away. These fanatics are training their own children from the age of 4 years old to kill us. There is no reasoning with them. We have no choice but to war until the fanatics can no longer kill us and others around the globe. If we called our soldiers home today, the good people in Iraq would be slaughtered and the Muslim fanatics would claim victory in the name of Allah. This would fuel their fire for the sword even more strongly and they will not give up until they have taken over every country and free person for the sake of Islam, the Koran and Allah. [/b]

Muhammad and Islam in a nutshell, an eyeopener.

[b]Muhammad taught that Jews and Christians were idolaters, believing in more than one god, so in order to stamp out idolatry the Koran justifies the murder of Jews and Christian alike. Christianity believes in the trinity, the three persons of the Godhead. The Old Testament speaks of 'Eloim' which is the plural name for God. What puzzles me is this. All through the Koran the word "We" is used for Allah when he speaks to Muhammad. Does that not make a plurality; yet, Islam's voice cries: "There is no God but Allah."


The Jewish community was in some agreement with Muhammad at first because their faith resembled each other and the Jews were granted religious freedom. But as time past, the Jews grew to dislike this warlike faith, laughed at his interpretation of scripture and disliked his claim to be the Messiah promised by their prophets. Muhammad dealt with this conflict by killing 600 Jews. They were given a choice of Islam or death. They chose death.

During Muhammad's ten years in Medina he planned 65 war campaigns. How many people in the world's history made war as much as Muhammad?[/b][/color][color=#990000]
http://www.faithissues.ca/OtherReligions/Islam/KoranAndTerrorism.asp

@Babyosisi: In my entry which you culled from, I just do not see how you can come to the conclusion that you came to.  Inshort, I did not admit that Muhammad killed or ordered anyone to kill any innocent soul, or avenge any death. If you have any proof to the contrary, please bring it forward and we will talk about it. Yes Islam/Muslim, under the leadership of Muhammad (AS), the messenger of God  engaged in wars. People were killed on both sides. There were times the muslims also lost wars as well. There were other times, that Muslims won wars without ever fighting or any shed of blood or lose of lives. Victory over makka will come to mind and yet there is another (The Battle of the Trenches, outside madina,if I remember correctly).

Now from your Bible, we find that from youth Jesus was a rabble rouser. Remember when he turned upside down the tables of the Exchangers. How old was he and how far along was his ministry? Remember, again that towrds the end of his ministry, he had COMMANDED his followers, Peter, Mark, Luke, etc (The 12 Apostles, a group that never included Saul/Paul at any time), to sell their cloaks and buy Swords instead, istruments of warfare. What was the purpose of the injuctions, except to prepare for conflicts.

In sincerity, Jesus was not the meek individual nor did he encourage his followers to be as the picture later developed by the Bible writers.

I read your other entries where you you alluded to my quoting the Bible erronously. My sister in humanity, Allah has ordained it that the writers of the Bible, regardless of how many councils set up to rewrite it, there will always that amount of it left to support the claims of Qur'an by it.  By Allah I see what you have not seen yet from your Bible.

Your above quote of the Qur'anic verses are completely wrong. The writer(s) are not even close, in textural content, nor in their summaries. I have Qur'an in front of me and i made references. My dear, do the same. Have a good one. All of us are almost behaving like family members, for real. That's nice.


Again you continue to go to the websites where lying is the theme of their operations. It will be better to research the Qur'an before you accept the information from thesites. We call these people of the sites Mutamushrikuun. They have evil knowledge. the reward will be evil. Can they list the names of the 600 battles and conflicts and times in the madina era. It seemed as if your people already agreed that there was no conflicts started by the muslims in the Makka era. Now any Yoruba will tell you that the expression ' Awa la wan be', starting of with prural pronoun does not mean it involves more than one person. It simply means the speaker is powerful or having some kind of dignitary value attach to its pwrson. If human can use this 'we' pronoun, then is it restricted from god to use the same 'we' to emphasis His Important. Tell us where we can find, from Islamic History Books where Muhammad (AS) and his companions (RA) killed Jews and/or Christian as your persons have indicated. We, in islam only use your Books, to talk about your religion in the light of the Qur'an and Sunnah. We do not have the latter day Apostle/saints, the equalent of Paul.

olabowole Stop being mad at websites that expose the cult of Islam.
They have quoted from the Koran and hadiths to support their claim,if you don't like it,too bad,they did not make it up.

olabowale:

Now from your Bible, we find that from youth Jesus was a rabble rouser. Remember when he turned upside down the tables of the Exchangers. How old was he and how far along was his ministry? Remember, again that towrds the end of his ministry, he had COMMANDED his followers, Peter, Mark, Luke, etc (The 12 Apostles, a group that never included Saul/Paul at any time), to sell their cloaks and buy Swords instead, istruments of warfare. What was the purpose of the injuctions, except to prepare for conflicts.

In sincerity, Jesus was not the meek individual nor did he encourage his followers to be as the picture later developed by the Bible writers.

I

And how many war fares did Jesus wage?
It is impossible to explain the scriptures to an unregenerated heart,I'm sorry.
Jesus spoke a lot in parables to put his point across.
Did you read the later part when a disciple took it up literally.
No,you insist on being blinded.

Luk 22:35 Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”

“Nothing,” they answered.

Luk 22:36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.


Luk 22:37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’*; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

Luk 22:38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”

“That is enough,” he replied.

Luk 22:39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him.

Luk 22:40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.”

Luk 22:41 He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed,

Luk 22:42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

Luk 22:43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.

Luk 22:44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.*

Luk 22:45 When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.

Luk 22:46 “Why are you sleeping?” he asked them. “Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.”

Luk 22:47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him,

Luk 22:48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”

Luk 22:49 When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?”

Luk 22:50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

Luk 22:51 But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

@Olabowale,
Indeed, discussions with you is an "enterprise in perseverance" because most times your responses are not only illogical but your responses lacks any merit and are most times only for response sake. I have said it before and you always confirm it that this Islam is indeed 'shallow' and false. Now, in your words and according to your Quran:

"Allah says in Suratul Fath (Victory Chapter 48, verse 29) that the the Believers have a trace of submission on their face,,,,,,,,,,,,,,When I learnt about this believer's quality in Qur'an, I began to pay attention to the faces of people, immediately after the Salah. I notice, always the calmness on the face and in general the Muslims are younger looking with more radiant skin, free of skin deseases."

If this is the deception you want to risk your eternity on, then I implore you to please let common sense prevail. In fact you don't need divine wisdom to know that the statement above about humanity and human being is false, false and false. Have you not heard the children proverb that "You cannot judge a book by it's cover." So according to your allah, by looking at the faces of believer you will see traces of submission. What a stupid deception from the pit of hell!!!
The suicide bombers who killed thousands in 9/11 and 7/7 in US and UK respectively were indeed "true believer" because from the investigation after the attacks, it was revealed that they were quiet, handsome, nice and submissive guys by their neighbours and friends; and yet they carried out the dastardly acts in the name of your allah and according to the instruction of allah's prophet muhammed as shown in the following passages:
-"Martyrdom is therefore the ONLY way for a Muslim to obtain forgiveness of sins” Surat Al – Tawbah 9:111
-"Jihad (fighting for Allah’s cause) is ordained for you” Surat Al-Baqarah 2:216 (allah can't fight for himself!!)
-"Kill the Mushrikun (non-Muslims), wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush” Surat Al-Taubah 9:5

While Islam focuses on piety, human appearance, works of self-righteousness and other deceptions of humanity; Jesus Christ seeks to and want to regenerate your MIND entirely. Bible says in the book of Romans 12:2 that: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God.
Also Jesus Christ said in Luke 6:45 that: A good man out of the good treasure of his heart (or mind) bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart (or mind) bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."

I have quoted similar relevant verses from the Quran and the Bible, so that you yourself can compare and contrast and again validate it against your conscience. It is the mind that is the source of all goods or evils; and going by the wicked teachings of muhammed in the Quran as shown by various quotations it is not difficult to imagine the evil capabilities in the minds of "true believers" in Islam who "have traces of submission and calmness on their faces,,,,and are younger looking with radiant skin." Is this a joke? C'mon, you should know more than this or I am overestimating your understanding. I will not be surprised if you ask us again to show you the wicked teachings of Muhammed because it is as if you delibrately develop 'selective dyslexia' to the writings/teachings of your prophet in the quran.

Lol,
@ olabs and all,

lol, i love how olabowale cherrypicks Biblical verses out of their original context, then use the Qu'ran to justify claims about the Bible. If y'all would notice, i stopped posting largely on olabowale's tendencies to digress from the topic. But it's all good homes.

I think a new thread needs to be opened, where the truth about Islam needs to be told and the issue can be adressed properly.

Olabsy,

concerning J.C and the two swords, pls stop picking verses out of their context and interpreting them to ur liking as u see fit or feeding off ur agenda. Rather see the whole passage as it is.

olabowale:

Now from your Bible, we find that from youth Jesus was a rabble rouser. Remember when he turned upside down the tables of the Exchangers. How old was he and how far along was his ministry? Remember, again that towrds the end of his ministry, he had COMMANDED his followers, Peter, Mark, Luke, etc (The 12 Apostles, a group that never included Saul/Paul at any time), to sell their cloaks and buy Swords instead, istruments of warfare. What was the purpose of the injuctions, except to prepare for conflicts.

In sincerity, Jesus was not the meek individual nor did he encourage his followers to be as the picture later developed by the Bible writers.

Is this the same Jesus you once claimed muslims loved more than christians? Is this the same Jesus muslims claim is one of Allah's "prophets"?
Do we assume that all of Allah's prophets are rabble rousers too?

See another great debate by wafa Sultan and watch the Islamic Prof almost about to regurgitate all the suya in his intestines.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOp_9xQ3gak&NR

The first debate for those who missed it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4JQk6qRBM0&mode=related&search=

Lol, david you's one crazy mutha<* beep *>!!

babyosisi:

The first debate for those who missed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4JQk6qRBM0&mode=related&search=

Oh my God 
I never thought anyone could talk to the mullahs like this - let alone a woman.
This video should be broadcast everywhere.

@Havila: The best verse of the Bible you are using to respond to me is Roman 12:2? But Roman is after Jesus was already lifted up. And it is a letter, a subjective opinion to some people. That is from God? Texturally and all and remain unchanged? Paul or who ever the author was was a third generation personality, who came after the generation of the companions of jesus.  Then you present two verses of Gospel 'according to' Luke. The operative phrase is in quotation above. In all, you did not use a verse directly from the messenger/prophet Jesus son of man (son of mary). How then do i expect you to have any verse directly from God the Almighty!

In the Qur'an, we see very clearly the speaker is God the Almighty Allah, directly. there is no ambiquity about it. I provided you one of the descriptions of believer. I also stated that there is a ton of them in the Qur'an which I did not mention. A believer has internal, external and behavioural description, among other characteristics.  Part of the quantumfied  value of believer is the unshaken believe and submission to God and going good for His pleasure.

It is ironic that you talked about the heart and you did not think that the heart's values are often seen outwardly. A person who has a good heart does good work. The work is an outward protection of the heart which is internal. A truly believing person has a good and believing soul being nourished in sweetness of faith, having a heart that is longing for deeds that are good and hoping to meet and receiving the mercy of God. Such a person when you see him/her, you will know that they are God conscious.

I remember Tai Solarin of the Mayflower in Ijebu Ikenne fame. He was not a person who pratcised and believed in any religion. However, he said that if he were to practised any religion, it would have been Islam. He spoke about the Salah, for example seems to provide an out let of exercise. The firmness in its orderliness, standing, bending, prostrating, etc.

Isa bin mariam (AS) of Qur'an is different from Jesus of the Bible. Isa never sinned. However Jesus fought, encourage others to prepare to fight. Jesus was confounded in temptation by the Satan, at least three times. Jesus was so weak because of hunger that he transgreed the nature of the fig tree, because it did not have a fruit for him to it. Even though it was not in the season of the fruiting of the fig. Jesus proved that he did not know everything because he should have known and would not have cursed the fig tree that was not providing fruit out of its season. Jesus was reluctant to accept his fate and responsibility before and during being nailed to the cross.

Isa bin mariam (AS) is in conformity to all the character of the quality of the office of the prophethood.

IBEXY:

Oh my God  
I never thought anyone could talk to the mullahs like this - let alone a woman.
This video should be broadcast everywhere.

Please pass it on.
The world should see that debate from the mouth of a former Muslim.

You all seem to be in some kind of celebration mood. i think instead we should be sadden by the brickwall we all seem to be hitting anytime we try to explain our unwaivering faith in our respective deities. No one is winning here, noone even seem to be making any headway. we just keep going in cycles.Jesus is this or is that, Islam is this or is that, the Bible is superior No the Quran is. At the end of all this crazy exercise, Babyosisi, Havila and David will still come out as christians as ever while definitely Bro. olabowale and Belloti will forever remain as devoted and as commited muslims as has always being.

I think what we should try to achieve here is that, despite our seeming hatred for each other we can still talk on common platform and express our spiritual sentiments and feel good about it. My prayer has always being for guidance for myself and the rest of humanity. May the Lord Almighty Allah continue to guide all of us to be a better human beings. Amen

I think the best thing will be to completely eliminate all religions - they seem to be our main point of differences.

@Babyosisi: I saw the 2 coloquium between Ms Wafa Sultan and rhe Arab Muslim 'Scholars', on the Al Jezzirra Cable TV channels. Before I give my personal opinion, I will like to say that the interview is mostly her speech. Though justified, but it leads an objective mind to wonder, the subjectiveness of the presenter of this debate on the tube! It was only to project their own agenda. An object mind will not cut out in snippet what she says in a way that you can see that it is obvious that the responses to her were not allowed here.

Now, we in the Islamic worlds often debate in micro and macro dimensions the conditions of the muslims. I know Islam from the American perspective, since I was arelatively stillyoung when I migrated to America. I do not think, my frequent and always short visit to Nigeria will qualify me to be an expert on the total conditions of Nigerian Muslims. I remember though, as a young boy attending prayers, that in the morning and even prayers, where most people were not always in a hurry in their engrossement of life activities, matters that concerns the total wellness of the community as a whole were always on the table. Since there is no separation and standing apart of any life and community's essence of existence from Islam, the african proverb of it takes a village to raise a child was very strong. That is the same experience that I continue to have amongst Muslims in America.

What Ms. Sultan emphasised upon for the most part is that she hopes that the Arabs do get it together. I agreed with her and also hope that this hope will spread to all the disadvantaged pockets of the world, including the American natives and blacks and spanish and even the whites in the alleganeys and the Bayous and the coal mine quarters of American slums. The Muslim scholars argued with her that true justice is the absent of killing or oppression by any artificial barriers. Her argument that the Jews emerged from Holocaust, as if that they did not put up a fight or there was no other people fighting the evil of the Nazi is complete displaced her Ignorance: I read a book about 15 years ago, given to me by my Lawyer, Mr. Samuel NMI Panzaer in NYC. It was an account of a military struggle, which were many, in the ghetto of Warsaw, Cracow, etc, etc. Inshort, the jews never at no time laid down the effort to emancipate themselves. It is natural for people to fight oppression. You know it and i know it.

I disagree with her about the fact that Islam advocated the indiscrimate killing and it is done at a drop of a dime. Evidently, she even as an arab did not understand her own arab language and never was practicing Islam. Islam is not because one has a beard as a man, or wearing the hijab as a woman, it is in the HEART. Muhammad did not change the cloth or the exterior of the Makkans at first. He worked on their hearts. It was this that stopped fromburying their daughters alive, prefering sons over daughters. It was this that weaned them from making women as if they were like properties to be possessed. It was this that made the Muslims became the best in the world in their time , from the slumber that they were from the time of Ismail/Ibrahiim (AS) till Muhammad came on the scene. I can go on and on. It was Islam that developed Al Azhar University that is the mother of all Universities on the planet. Research it. Even Islam elevated Muslims of Mali's University of Timbuktu fame.

Now my agreement with Ms. Safa Sultan, is not because she presented what are not already known to the Muslims. No. She only reiterrated what we talk about all the time among ourselves. Unfortunately, Muslims become very complacant. We mix culture with Islam. There is Islamic Culture and then there is Arabic, African, Asiatic, or other cultures. The Arabs and others mix their ethnic cultures with Islamic culture. Every body tend to forget their religion when they are emotional, yet Islam prove the opposite as practiced by the Prophet and the first generation, etc.

In the near future I will provide stories that are checkable in the history of Islam, which will educate you about the the high standard of this religion. A Jewish scholar said the Qur'an is so thorough that the God that revealed it even tells the Muslims how to take a bath. This is Islam, everything else is separate and apart from it. Again injustice is injustice regardless of who perpetrates it!

belloti:

You all seem to be in some kind of celebration mood. i think instead we should be sadden by the brickwall we all seem to be hitting anytime we try to explain our unwaivering faith in our respective deities. No one is winning here, noone even seem to be making any headway. we just keep going in cycles.Jesus is this or is that, Islam is this or is that, the Bible is superior No the Quran is. At the end of all this crazy exercise, Babyosisi, Havila and David will still come out as christians as ever while definitely Bro. olabowale and Belloti will forever remain as devoted and as commited muslims as has always being.
I think what we should try to achieve here is that, despite our seeming hatred for each other we can still talk on common platform and express our spiritual sentiments and feel good about it. My prayer has always being for guidance for myself and the rest of humanity. May the Lord Almighty Allah continue to guide all of us to be a better human beings. Amen

Now that we've come to this conclusion, can we officially end the thread

olabowale:

@Havila: The best verse of the Bible you are using to respond to me is Roman 12:2? But Roman is after Jesus was already lifted up. And it is a letter, a subjective opinion to some people. That is from God? Texturally and all and remain unchanged? Paul or who ever the author was was a third generation personality, who came after the generation of the companions of jesus. Then you present two verses of Gospel 'according to' Luke. The operative phrase is in quotation above. In all, you did not use a verse directly from the messenger/prophet Jesus son of man (son of mary). How then do i expect you to have any verse directly from God the Almighty!

@Olabowale,
This statement above is a "literature of ignorance" and I don't blame you. I have said it again, your responses are now really surprising to me because of the depth of it's incoherence and emptiness. Can you just do a little bit of research to investigate your submissions before posting? Before making a claim about a particular verse, why dont you attempt to investigate the passage, the content, the author: then rationally look at the message. I expect us to be having matured exchanges based on contents here, not unfounded claims or exchanges with no head or tail only fit for motoparks.
So who was talking in Luke 6 and what was the exposition of Romans based on? The message of Luke 6 was Jesus himself teaching and the exposition of Romans is based on the teachings and life of Jesus through inspiration of the sprit of wisdom, Holy Spirit. Why not focus on the content for now to get understanding rather than fighting Paul at every given opportunity you have . If you put the life of Paul and Muhammed side by side to an atheist, they can easily deduce who served a living God that is a Good God. Beware of Pride and blinding anger and rebellion; they all make you so blind to your conscience and reason, when truth is confronting you head on, my brother.

belloti:

At the end of all this crazy exercise, Babyosisi, Havila and David will still come out as christians as ever while definitely Bro. olabowale and Belloti will forever remain as devoted and as commited muslims as has always being. I think what we should try to achieve here is that, despite our seeming hatred for each other we can still talk on common platform and express our spiritual sentiments and feel good about it. My prayer has always being for guidance for myself and the rest of humanity.

Now Belloti,
Maybe you hate us 'unbelivers' as prescribed by muhammed; let me tell you, ALL of us here replying you and Olabowale DO NOT HATE YOU. We are not permitted to hate people by Jesus Christ, but we hate the ideology or theology you profess i.e Islam. If you take our disapproval of Islam as hating you, then you are mistaken. We will not give up on you because Christ did not give up on us when we were still blind. You have heard and read the message of the gosple of peace and liberty through Jesus Christ; what you have heard or read, maybe you still dont believe it, but your eyes and heart will see it. We have given you the message and we are praying for you to have your eyes opened to the love of God through Jesus, that is our role; the Lord himself will be the one to convert you and Olabowale according to his purpose or will. The words and scriptures you've read are seeds of life because they are scriptures and scripture-inspired.

nilla:

Now that we've come to this conclusion, can we officially end the thread

Now Nilla,
With all due respect to your passivism, is anybody forcing you to come unto this thread? Are you being compelled to write? Why must you want us to end this discussion? You do not want us to have or express our opinion?
This is a right and a priviledge; you cannot legislate against our opinion however you do not like it or displeasing it is to ears.
If you dont stand for something in life, you will fall for anything. Now this is a proverbial saying not directed at you personally but to reflect the outcome of passivism. I know you mean good, but thanks dear. Take a stand. Take a stand that will help and lead others to salvation and peace and freedom from hate filed indoctrination, oppression and ultimately to HELL---> That is what islam represent.
"The earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof"

Havila:

Now Nilla,
With all due respect to your passivism, is anybody forcing you to come unto this thread? Are you being compelled to write? Why must you want us to end this discussion? You do not want us to have or express our opinion?
This is a right and a priviledge; you cannot legislate against our opinion however you do not like it or displeasing it is to ears.
If you don't stand for something in life, you will fall for anything. Now this is a proverbial saying not directed at you personally but to reflect the outcome of passivism. I know you mean good, but thanks dear. Take a stand. Take a stand that will help and lead others to salvation and peace and freedom from hate filed indoctrination, oppression and ultimately to HELL---> That is what islam represent.
"The earth is the Lords and the fullness thereof"

nobody is forcing me, but its on my list of "new posts replying yours".
I want it to end because obviously you guys are not making any headway. You believe what you do and the muslims beleive what they do.
Don't worry i know what your proverbial saying  is . . . . but the title of thread: is terrorism a muslim problem? my response no. so does that now mean i'm not standing for something
on taking a stand to lead others to salvation and peace, shouln't you be preaching to the budhists, atheists, etc tooo.

Also dont worry no offence is taken

@Nilla,
How did you know we are not making any headway? c'mon dont be myopic. The things you see/hear are determining the things you might not see/hear. Are you expecting some people to simply come and renounce their ideology after life-long indoctrination, human pride is still influencing some, but the words of God are 'spirit and they are life'. The words they've heard will convict them of the truth.
As per the Buddhist, atheist etc,,,,,,,,wey dem? We preach the message of hope, peace and Christian liberty to all and sundry without regard to race, hate or persecution. The Islamic jihadist, Buddhist, Sikhs etc are trying but failing flat on their faces in the Americas, Europe, Arab countries, Asia, Africa etc because the airwaves are being bombarded through satellite with the message of Christ, coupled with active evangelism on the ground.
It is written that "All knees will bow and every tongue shalll confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" The word of God is like the rain which come from above and cannot return, so is the words of God that it cannot go void without achieving what it has being sent to do. Bless you.

ok i don't kow whether your making headway. you guys keep putting up long posts with sources, quotations, etc. its been on for a long time now.
I ain't myopic   
As per the budhists, atheists etc, keep searching you will find them  even a couple on Nairaland.
Keep up the good work preaching the word of God.
_{Haven't read most of your other posts but what i can see so far is your different from some of the others preaching.}

Bless you too 

nilla:

nobody is forcing me, [b]but its on my list of "new posts replying yours".[/b]I want it to end because obviously you guys are not making any headway. You believe what you do and the muslims beleive what they do.

there are 2 ways to correct that:

1. Either ignore it, it is not by force to respond to every "new post replying yours"

2. When next you reply, uncheck the box that says "notify me of replies" and you'd be rid of this topic!

Not making any headway? At least we are speaking the truth, to those who could not stand it they have all run away. Those left are the ones of stony hearts and rebellious spirits.