Rilwayne001:

Your supporters will be highly disasppointed in you.

Empiree:

Infact, it is shameful that despite her/he been a fanatic xtian doesn't know the reason why jesus allegedly died for her...Smh

Ifeann:


Dont forget to summon ur nairaland mohammed defenders..

Once again i ask u

I guess this was answered.

As for your friend, he simply believe not in hadith. Fabricated or not does not make any difference to him. That's not unique by the way.

He does see hadith as literature. So question you asked is fabrication too.

Empiree:
You sound like a child now. You keep repeating this despite clarification from albaqir.

It's same position I abide all the time. There are hundreds if not thousands of ahadith that are in harmony with the BEST BOOK ON PLANET EARTH, AL-QURAN. Quran itself explains itself within itself a lot without secondary source as well.

When you asked if sahih ahadith are nonsense, I don't think you realized you made blanket statement by that.

Sahih ahadith are not nonsense. They are graded and we freaking know much about them. Even weakest ahadith are better than Bible. Yauk

ifeann, you no go kill pazon

So sahih muslim and sahih bakhari contains nonsense even tho that sahih hadiths are used to understand ur "perfect" quran better. .



Wow.. empiree u are delu.ded

By the way.. i know about ur hadith grading system in islam.. this is why i focus on exposing islam using the quran and sahih hadiths..

I dont acknowledge all hadiths, this is why u havent seen me post hadiths which say ur mohammed slept with the dead body of his aunt so she can have a prophet's wifes privilege in paradise, or the hadiths about sleeping with camels, or rubbing ur priv.ates on infant chilren muslims take as wives....etc
Some things i have read from islamic texts are disgusting. .

Ifeann:


So sahih muslim and sahih bakhari contains nonsense even tho that sahih hadiths are used to understand ur "perfect" quran better. .



Wow.. empiree u are delu.ded

By the way.. i know about ur hadith grading system in islam.. this is why i focus on exposing islam using the quran and sahih hadiths..

I dont acknowledge all hadiths, this is why u havent seen me post hadiths which say ur mohammed slept with the dead body of his aunt so she can have a prophet's wifes privilege in paradise, or the hadiths about sleeping with camels, or rubbing ur priv.ates on infant chilren muslims take as wives....etc
Some things i have read from islamic texts are disgusting. .

Don't jump on me. I am just passing by for now.

So face op

Ifeann:


Ok yazach let me ask u this..
I wont quote the bible so let me ask u from the quran. Why does allah claim to end isa's life... why kill isa?? Why is his death so important. .
Here is the quran passage.

And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. Qur'an 3:55

(Jesus saying) I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (Arabic- tawaffaytani), Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. Qur'an 5:117. *

The word “tawaffa” refers to physical death.

Some of. u Muslims believe that the term "cause thee to die" or terminate (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) need not refer to physical death as it can have other meanings. It can refer to God snatching the body of Jesus away physically to Himself.



The words "tawaffaytani" and "mutawafeeka" are forms of the Arabic word “tawaffa”.

The word mutawafeeka cannot possibly refer to God snatching Jesus' body physically without his experiencing physical death.

The verb in Arabic (mutawafeeka) is used in the Quran with only two meanings.

The word is used 23 times in the Quran and 21 out of the 23 times, it refers to physical death. Only two times, it refers to the separation of the soul from the body at the time of sleep and during both these times, the qualifying words like sleep or night would be in the verse.


Why did he kill isa

Wow! Wow!! Wow!!!

I love this linguistic analysis. The Qur'an does confirms Jesus death. This has been my conclusion after thorough literal and linguistic analysis of relevant verses free from preconcieved notions. Am amazed that a Christian also reached this conclusion with the Qur'an.

What the Qur'an doesn't confirm is Jesus ressurrection or re-emergence prior to Amaggedon.

PS: Ifeann, don't be fooled by those hidding behind Qur'an now that some fallacies of their traditions have been exposed. There are several hadith contradicting Qur'an or unconfirmed by the Qur'an that these traditionalists keep.

Here are few examples; The Mahdi, the punishment of the grave, Muhammad interceeding for believers, Muhammad performing miracles and several other doctrines and statutes. Given that, isn't it dishonest for these same people to come deny a certain hadith on ground that the hadith contradict Qur'an?

Rilwayne001:



Lemme summon those that are following you to come and see how low your IQ is.

do u have to insult?

shyna01:

do u have to insult?

I didn't insult anyone.

usermane:
PS: Ifeann, don't be fooled by those hidding behind Qur'an now that some fallacies of their traditions have been exposed. There are several hadith contradicting Qur'an or unconfirmed by the Qur'an that these traditionalists keep.

Here are few examples; The Mahdi, the punishment of the grave, Muhammad interceeding for believers, Muhammad performing miracles and several other doctrines and statutes. Given that, isn't it dishonest for these same people to come deny a certain hadith on ground that the hadith contradict Qur'an?

I understand what u mean...

Its a paradox when muslims like empiree claim the quran is clear and "perfect" but still needs the contradiction and error riddled hadiths in order to interprete and understand the same quran.

I have come to realise that u are the only muslim that makes sense on nairaland because u stay consistent. While the others keep drifting left and right in the quagmire of islamic orthodox nonsense.. while using al taqiyyah and deciet. Today they claim the hadith is great , tomorrow they claim it is unreliable and contains contradictions.

Have a nice easter weekend.

Rilwayne001 will u renounce islam when i explain it to you. ..

.

Ifeann:
Rilwayne001 will u renounce islam when i explain it to you. ..

This is a foolish question...address the OP, if you can't, then walk away, it is as simple as that.

Rilwayne001:

.

mr Rilwayne001 all dis points and question u raised up there, how I wish to answer dem for u
but it will be hard for you to accept d truth
But let me answer d one I can now

1. jesus came to die for our sin coz since adam and eve sinned against God it as been in human nature to sin, and the way dey ask for forgiveness for sins is tru d blood of lamb, bull, and all.
Dat leads to dis point u raise here
5. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?
Not state of been righteous is different from the state of been perfect
Go and read bible very well b4 zecharial and co enters into d holy place, dey must first cleans demself wit blood, which make dem righteous by den

Den GOD decide he is tired of all dos blood, and people sin more which is first covenant, God now gave us is son to die and raise again, so is blood is alive till today to clean all our sins and gives us power sin and death, read d book of roman for better understand ( u can accept jesus also today sir )

Mind u, u asking dat how will abraham sin and God will ask us? and quoting what d koran says: av u forgotten what God said in old testament, dat he will ask d sin of father on d children till d forth generation?



pls tell me how will koran comes and explain bible which is older and tell us genesis to revelation of life to us?

Koran an already layman can use is man wisdom to write it...
But u will knw that d bible is an inspiration from

It teach we christian to be different,
but koran makes u desame to d world and...



Thanks for reading.

Rilwayne001:



This is a foolish question...address the OP, if you can't, then walk away, it is as simple as that.

Will u be open minded and make an effort to be objective when i explaiñ or will u attack as u have done several times..

Will u renounce islam?? If i prove to u it is a load of garbage. .

Mohammed lied to u, jesus died for you...

Let me start softly...from your own quran..

Do u know why humans are not in paradise according to your koran...?? Since it claims adam and eve where in paradise and got kicked out to earth because they sinned..

... if we the decendants are born without sin, original sin, then why are we still locked out of paradise according to your quran. Can u answer this objectively. No insults .. behave..

@zyzxx

You tried, but its as if you didn't bother to read the OP at all.
Ezekiel 18v20
Deut 24:16 wasnt talking about sacrifice was it?

Now please re-read and answer the quwstion as outlined.

Rilwayne001:
@zyzxx

You tried, but its as if you didn't bother to read the OP at all.
Ezekiel 18v20
Deut 24:16 wasnt talking about sacrifice was it?

Now please re-read and answer the quwstion as outlined.

av answer dis in other tread

U are mixing things together
And mean while after adam sin, don't we also sin?

Rilwayne001, pls how old re you?

Ifeann:


I understand what u mean...

Its a paradox when muslims like empiree claim the quran is clear and "perfect" but still needs the contradiction and error riddled hadiths in order to interprete and understand the same quran.

I have come to realise that u are the only muslim that makes sense on nairaland because u stay consistent. While the others keep drifting left and right in the quagmire of islamic orthodox nonsense.. while using al taqiyyah and deciet. Today they claim the hadith is great , tomorrow they claim it is unreliable and contains contradictions.

Have a nice easter weekend.

Please you and your buddy should not derail this thread. What you copied pasted up there about "death of Jesus" is really nothing to concern myself about. My simple question to you is do you believe Quran to be word of God or not. Simple answer; YES OR NO?. Let's take it from there.

Empiree:
My simple question to you is do you believe Quran to be word of God or not. Simple answer; YES OR NO?. Let's take it from there.

This is simple.. i have answered it several times...

All of it is by mohammeds lieing lips...of course he got some ideas from the Torah, gnostic christians and arab pagans.. all the evidence is there and we have discussed previously.

Mohammed made up the vile quran.. shikena ab.oki.

Ifeann:

Will u renounce islam?? If i prove to u it is a load of garbage.

I have told you to stop asking this foolish quwstion, simply face the OP without asking this quwstion.

Mohammed lied to u, jesus died for you...

And I ask did jesus really died for me? What sin have I sinned?
Thats the question you have been boycotting and trying to derail our attention from it. You said The prophet lied to me, and I said you should prove to me that he lied by answering those quwstions in the OP. Is that too hard for you? If it is, simply walk away..biko

Let me start softly...from your own quran..

I know what you sre trying to do, I know your plan is to divert our attention away from the questions in the OP.

Do u know why humans are not in paradise according to your koran...?? Since it claims adam and eve where in paradise and got kicked out to earth because they sinned..

This is the story of Adam according to the Quran 7:19-22 "O Adam dwell with your wife in the Garden and enjoy as you wish but approach not this tree or you run into harm and transgression. Then Satan whispered to them in order to reveal to them their shame that was hidden from them and he
said:

'Your Lord only forbade you this tree lest you become angels or such beings as live forever.'

And he swore to them both that he was their sincere adviser. So by deceit he brought them to their fall: when they tasted the tree their shame became manifest to them and they began to sew together the leaves of the Garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them:

'Did I not forbid you that tree and tell you that Satan was your avowed enemy?' "

Adam and Eve Repent and God Accepts Their Repentance

Quran 7:23 "They said: Our Lord we have wronged ourselves souls. If You forgive us not and bestow not upon us Your Mercy, we shall certainly be of the losers' "

Quran 20:121-122 ".. Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went Astray. Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance."

... if we the decendants are born without sin, original sin, then why are we still locked out of paradise according to your quran. Can u answer this objectively. No insults .. behave..

Surah Al-Araf, Verse 24-25
"......having on earth your abode and livelihood for a while:there shall you live" - He added - "and there shall you die, and thence shall you be brought forth [on Resurrection Day]!

Surah Al-Araf, Verse 26:
[b] O CHILDREN of Adam! Indeed, We have bestowed upon you from on high [the knowledge of making] garments to cover your unclothedness, and as a thing of beauty: but the garment of God-consciousness is the best of all. Herein lies a message from God, so that man” might take it to heart.



Now, the question is directed back to you, If Jesus supposedly died for the sin of Adam, why are we still locked out of heaven?
If truly the adamic sin is the causes of women pain during child labour according to the bible, why are women still labouring in pain to deliver since Jesus has allegedly died to stop it?


Please please...I beg you in the name of God, don't derail this thread, reply this particular post and go straight to the OP.

That's it. Obviousy, you have no right whatsoever to tell me the a phrase you quoted up there means death. Your case is conviniently dismissed. I know you copied it from somewhere cus I am familiar with such nonsense.

You have no yes or no answer. Now face the op

Ifeann:


This is simple.. i have answered it several times...

All of it is by mohammeds lieing lips...of course he got some ideas from the Torah, gnostic christians and arab pagans.. all the evidence is there and we have discussed previously.

Mohammed made up the vile quran.. shikena ab.oki.

transformer2019:
Rilwayne001, pls how old re you?

I am 14years old

Rilwayne001:
[i] The very fact that sin remains and flourishes in the world, 2000+ years after Christ supposedly "conquered" sin on the cross, is more than enough for the non-deluded to see that the judicial execution of that one man is perfectly meaningless in terms of redeeming the spiritual state of mankind as a race.

christ did not come to take away sin permanently in the world.

THIS IS THE REASON CHRIST CAME
Mark2: 17 And hearing this, Jesus said to
them, “It is not those who are healthy
who need a physician, but those who are sick; I DID NOT COME TO CALL THE RIGHTEOUS,BUT SINNERS.”

All men are sinner;
Roman3:23>>> All men are sinners, "For all have sinned
and fall short of the glory of
God"

WHAT MAKE ALL MEN SINNERS?
In the creation story, God created man in his image meaning man is Godly and holy, where did sin come from? Is it not after the fall of man started? Quran confirmed this too.because man is filty this caused division between God and man;
Isaiah 59:2>
>>2 But your iniquities have made a
SEPERATION BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR GOD, And your sins have hidden His FACE FROM YOU so that He does not hear.
Unlike man, God is absolutely pure
and spotless, for as it says in 1 John 1:5,
"And this is the message we have heard
from Him and announce to you, that God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."

WHY DID GOD SEND JESUS?
Ephesians 2:4
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of bHis great love with which He loved us. And also john3:16 gives us the reason God send Jesus.

WHY WE NEED JESUS TO SOLVE MAN PROBLEMS OF SIN?
"God made him (Christ) who had no sin
to be sin for us, so that in him we might
become the righteousness of God." 2
Corinthians 5:21
If you believe in Jesus ,his righteousness will indwell in you and you will not break the law.
"He (Jesus) entered the Most Holy Place
once for all by his own blood, having
obtained eternal redemption." ( Hebrews 9:12)

Man's sin is the fundamental problem
Christ's death is the answer. The
message or "good news" of the Gospel is
that God has provided a way for man to
leave the shadows and confines of sin
and enter into the light and fulfillment of a righteous relationship with God. This way is through the death of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:8–11
8 Being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself by becoming
obedient to the point of death, even
death on a cross.
9 For this reason also, God highly
exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the
name which is above every name,
10 so that at the name of Jesus every
knee will bow, of those who are in
heaven and on earth and under the
earth,
11 and that every tongue will confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of
God the Father.

[[size=5pt]quote author=Rilwayne001[/size] post=32305723][i]

1. Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?.

2. If God’s anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persisted on to the generation of Adam and Eve. Remember this God’s action
psalm 30v5: for his anger endureth but a moment and his favour is for a life time.



3. From whence, then, could arise the solitary and strange conceit that the Almighty, who had millions of worlds equally dependent on his protection, should quit the care of all the rest, and come to die in our world, because, they say, one man and one woman had eaten an apple?

4. "Christian guy rapes innocent Muslim girl to death. Muslim girl goes to hell because she didn't believe Jesus is the son of God. Christian guy ask for forgiveness. Makes heaven." whats your take on this incident?

5. Simply put, it is either men have not inherited any sins or that bible has told lie when it says as seen above that John, Daniel, Zechariah and his wife, Samuel, Joseph were all righteous men! Or are a sinners called righteous one in the bible?


To be continued...

[/size][/quote][/size]


It is obvious that man commits personal acts of sin.

What makes him sin is the inherent nature in him that has a propensity to sin.
This nature came about as a result of the sin of Adam & Eve. A CHANGE occurred in man’s makeup when they chose to go against God’s directive. This CHANGE was now subsequently passed on to their successive offspring.
Consequently the new born baby as well as the oldest person alive possesses this sin nature.

It is for primarily this sin nature and then personal sins committed that Jesus Christ died.

As a result of his death, anyone who accepts Jesus’ work on mankind’s behalf through the expression of faith (trust) in him is saved from the penalty of sin – “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believe in him should not perish but have eternal life” John 3:16

Rilwayne001:

I didn't insult anyone.

OK...
do you know his/her IQ score? do you even know your own IQ score?
if you don't y make such a statement when yours is probably lower?

Kay17:

impossible metaphysical claims.

In the bible? .....prove it

[quote author=Ifeann post=32321847]

I understand what u mean...

Its a paradox when muslims like empire claim the quran is clear and "perfect" but still needs the contradiction and error riddled hadiths in order to interprete and understand the same quran.

You dont make sense. You have no idea what islam is. You just trying to fit yourself in.

There is difference between "tawil" and "tafsir". Hadith is tafsir of Quran. Quran is already interpreted. Hadith explains just many verses. And some or most of those verses themselves are clear enough sometimes without reaching out if system of meaning is properly observed.

Here is homework for you. Pretend you have no idea of historical context of this verse Imran 3. You will be wondering "which war", "where it took place", "what year" (is it talking about). There is no way you can possibly know unless and until you delve hadith and seerat.

And did you carry your 'Jesus' yesterday, too? Bunch of polytheists. Dont derail the thread answer op

Ifeann thank you so much. This is the best Easter gift ever. Opening my eyes to see that the death and rresurrection of Jesus Christ is in the Quran but these clowns won't still believe it. Mehhhhn, don't let Satan have a hold on you. It is so clear to me now. "Those who worship Idols are like them, having eyes but not seeing, having ears but not hearing. Thank u Lord. Their koran shall be used to judge them. "And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. Qur'an 3:55

(Jesus saying) I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (Arabic- tawaffaytani), Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. Qur'an 5:117. *

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geD_9FqGDRA

The Muslim brother that was saved said
"the quran said he that don't believe in Jesus Christ is not a muslim"

Ifeann:


Ok yazach let me ask u this..
I wont quote the bible so let me ask u from the quran. Why does allah claim to end isa's life... why kill isa?? Why is his death so important. .
Here is the quran passage.

And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. Qur'an 3:55

(Jesus saying) I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (Arabic- tawaffaytani), Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. Qur'an 5:117. *

The word “tawaffa” refers to physical death.

Some of. u Muslims believe that the term "cause thee to die" or terminate (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) need not refer to physical death as it can have other meanings. It can refer to God snatching the body of Jesus away physically to Himself.



The words "tawaffaytani" and "mutawafeeka" are forms of the Arabic word “tawaffa”.

The word mutawafeeka cannot possibly refer to God snatching Jesus' body physically without his experiencing physical death.

The verb in Arabic (mutawafeeka) is used in the Quran with only two meanings.

The word is used 23 times in the Quran and 21 out of the 23 times, it refers to physical death. Only two times, it refers to the separation of the soul from the body at the time of sleep and during both these times, the qualifying words like sleep or night would be in the verse.


Why did he kill isa

excellent post.

AlBaqir:


No, it is not. Muslim's claim has always been "no book of collection of hadith is free from error". Only the Qur'an we boast passionately to be free from error. Therefore, we use the Qur'an to verify the authenticity of the "books of hadith". This makes a lot of sense in the fact that "books of hadith" were written centuries after the demise of the Prophet of Islam; he or his companions never certify it.

Whatever in the "books of hadith" that is in harmony with the Qur'an is accepted. Whatever deviate from the theme of the Qur'an is rejected.
Muhammad will never contradict his Lord. Qur'an chap. 53 says: |1|By the star when it goes down, (or vanishes).

|2|Your companion (Muhammad SAW) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

|3|Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

|4|It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.

|5|He has been taught by one mighty in power.

muhammed will never contradicts his lord yet satan inspired word contrary to Allah word in his revelation(satanic verse)