udatso:


Seriously you have no honesty in you. YYou have raised this issue and you have been well replied in many cases. I used to think you had some sincerity left in you but all I see now is Ifeann. You are nothing but a recycler of answered questions. Shame on you

Oh shut ur ignorant mouth... malvisguy212 is brilliant at exposing islam and u guys hardly ever give a good explanation for the issues he brings up

Ifeann:


Oh shut ur ignorant mouth... malvisguy212 is brilliant at exposing islam and u guys hardly ever give a good explanation for the issues he brings up

I thought you were banned? has it expired?

Rilwayne001:


I thought you were banned? has it expired?

Yeah... just now.. how was ur weekend

Ifeann:


Yeah... just now.. how was ur weekend

good.

Your parisbookadict has been reported to the moderators, has it been banned?

Empiree:
Malvis, pls dont expose your weak side to albaqir. Dont let him know you are robotic. This topic you brought was explained to you on another threads...remember I posted detailed explanation. You shut up afterward. I can't remember the thread but probably back in february. Me and 9jaforlife dealt with you on it yet you still brought it up. It will be a shame if baqir also come to same conclusion the way me and others did about you.

Remember, me, rilwayne001, lagoshia, tala9ja, 9jaforlife said the same thing about you?. Do you want baqir to come to that conclusion as well?. Please think. Thanks

Exactly, when he starts a topic and he is well answered, he is not matured enough to admit that he has been answered. He just keeps quiet, then after few days, weeks, or months, he starts to recycle the topic again. I don't know how one can be so dubious

malvisguy212:
let see if you are sincere.

Doing Tawaf between Safa and Marwa is
an Islamic ritual associated with the
pilgrimage to Mecca. Safa and Marwa are two mounts, located at Mecca. This ritual entails Muslims walking frantically
between the two mounts, seven times.
This was originally a pagan pre-Islamic
practice. Muhammad retained it for
Islam, sanctioning it with yet another
Qur'anic revelation.

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin
Malik: "Did you use to dislike to
perform Tawaf between Safa and
Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the
CEREMONIES OF THE DAYS OF THE PRE-ISLAMIC
PERIOD OF IGNORANCE, till Allah
revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains)
As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the
SYMBOLS OF Allah. It is therefore no sin
for him who performs the pilgrimage
to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to
perform Tawaf between them.'
" (2.158)
Sahih Bukhari 2:26:710

How is it possible that pagan ritual become the symbols of Allah?

You just proved me right. Keep recycling

Ifeann:


Oh shut ur ignorant mouth... malvisguy212 is brilliant at exposing islam and u guys hardly ever give a good explanation for the issues he brings up

Since you are new in nairaland you wouldn't know anything about my dialogue with malvisguy212 since 2013 as well as with other muslim brothers. Go and check our posts and help yourself.

udatso:

You just proved me right. Keep recycling

the quran and hadith say the pagan ritual muhammed retain it for the worship of Islam, and he say"it was the symbol of Allah, (the Arab pagan where the first to practice tawaf between safa and marwa) so I ask, how is the practices of pagan becomes the symbol of Allah? Non of you were been able to answer it ? Instead you guys are just writing with different type of colour like Artists full the thread with note without saying anything.

malvisguy212:
the quran and hadith say the pagan ritual muhammed retain it for the worship of Islam, and he say"it was the symbol of Allah, (the Arab pagan where the first to practice tawaf between safa and marwa) so I ask, how is the practices of pagan becomes the symbol of Allah? Non of you were been able to answer it ? Instead you guys are just writing with different type of colour like Artists full the thread with note without saying anything.

continue

Kay1one2 posted a passage from the Bible (@kay1one) to answer the question.

Jesus died for the sin of Adam bitting an apple

tartar9:
Jesus died for the sin of Adam bitting an apple

Its like asking me to be sacrificed for the sin of my great-great grandfather! Does that make any sense?!

And does God knew Adam will eat the apple or not?
If He does then it is planned and designed by Him; therefore, there is no sin here!

If He knew not, then, His knowledge is limited.

udatso:

Exactly, when he starts a topic and he is well answered, he is not matured enough to admit that he has been answered. He just keeps quiet, then after few days, weeks, or months, he starts to recycle the topic again. I don't know how one can be so dubious

Days? weeks? Months?

Most times he gets to a point where he starts recycling ON THE SAME THREAD. Then truthman2012 and co all come in and start all over again; sprinkled with liberal doses of Oremussanctus' edifying words of wisdom; liking each others' comments all the way. It's like they do not even comprehend any explanations on the issue; even those made 3 comments ago; much less make an attempt to address them.

I think that they have this issue of Cognitive Disonance. It is particularly well developed in xtians who follow the pentecostal line. You know, you just CANNOT see any point of view that does not fit your own narrow beliefs... no matter how much evidence is laid before you. Comes from years of dumbing down, I guess. Burns out all the neurons involved in rational thinking and the use of logic.

Ifeann:


Ok yazach let me ask u this..
I wont quote the bible so let me ask u from the quran. Why does allah claim to end isa's life... why kill isa?? Why is his death so important. .
Here is the quran passage.

And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so l will decide between you concerning that in which you differed. Qur'an 3:55

(Jesus saying) I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (Arabic- tawaffaytani), Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. Qur'an 5:117. *

The word “tawaffa” refers to physical death.

Some of. u Muslims believe that the term "cause thee to die" or terminate (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) need not refer to physical death as it can have other meanings. It can refer to God snatching the body of Jesus away physically to Himself.



The words "tawaffaytani" and "mutawafeeka" are forms of the Arabic word “tawaffa”.

The word mutawafeeka cannot possibly refer to God snatching Jesus' body physically without his experiencing physical death.

The verb in Arabic (mutawafeeka) is used in the Quran with only two meanings.

The word is used 23 times in the Quran and 21 out of the 23 times, it refers to physical death. Only two times, it refers to the separation of the soul from the body at the time of sleep and during both these times, the qualifying words like sleep or night would be in the verse.


Why did he kill isa

ifean..
I don't know where you got your quote from..but from my own Qur'an translation
q 3:55. When God said: "O Jesus, I will take you to Myself and exalt you, and rid you of the infidels, and hold those who follow you above those who disbelieve till the Day of Resurrection. You have then to come back to Me when I will judge between you in what you were at variance."
explanation
Allah didn't kill Isa..He got rid of the infidel for him...is only Allah can judge any body

and for q5:117

I said nought to them but what You commanded me: Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. And so long as I dwelt with them I was witness over their actions. And after my life had been done, You were their keeper; and You are a witness over all things.

seriously I don't know where u got ur own from.. But belive me..if u knew this and use it to condemn the religion..i won't judge you but Allah. Because He knows best

boykas:



ifean..
I don't know where you got your quote from..but from my own Qur'an translation
q 3:55. When God said: "O Jesus, I will take you to Myself and exalt you, and rid you of the infidels, and hold those who follow you above those who disbelieve till the Day of Resurrection. You have then to come back to Me when I will judge between you in what you were at variance."
explanation
Allah didn't kill Isa..He got rid of the infidel for him...is only Allah can judge any body

and for q5:117

I said nought to them but what You commanded me: Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. And so long as I dwelt with them I was witness over their actions. And after my life had been done, You were their keeper; and You are a witness over all things.

seriously I don't know where u got ur own from.. But belive me..if u knew this and use it to condemn the religion..i won't judge you but Allah. Because He knows best

you have said nothing, Jesus clearly died before his ascension. The words of
Jesus in this Qur’anic verse(Surah 5:117) clearly show:
1. When Jesus was with his disciples
on earth, he bore witness to them.
2.But then Allah caused him to die.
3. And now in heaven, Jesus says
that Allah alone watches over them at
present.

In the above Qur’anic verse, the term
“die” is translated from the Arabic word,
“mutawaffika.” The term
“mutawaffika” occurs over 25 times in
the Qur’an, and in each case it refers to
the death of someone. Especially
enlightening is its usage in Surah 39:42:
“It is Allah that takes (mutawaffika)
the SOULS (of men) at DEATH; and
those that die not (He takes)
(m utawaffika) during their sleep:
those on whom He has passed the
decree of death.” (Yusuf Ali)

Thus, it is important to note that if Qur’an
translators (like Yusuf Ali) prefer to use
another phrase such as, “Thou didst
take me up” (mutawaffika) instead of
“Thou didst cause me to
die” (mutawaffika) in their translations,
it means the same thing in the Arabic
Qur’an. It means death.

Islam is double-faced with the intention to deceive mankind. Every statement made by allah is reversed later making his words unreliable.

From the op:

74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed

Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.

Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.

The above quranic quotes tell us everyone is liable to his own sins and will not bear the sin of another, even the sins of his parents.

That is further butressed by the following verses:

And no bearer of burdens shall
bear another's burden, and if
one heavily laden calls another
to (bear) his load, nothing of it
will be lifted even though he be
near of kin. You (O Muhammad
SAW) can warn only those who
fear their Lord unseen, and
perform As-Salat
(IqamatasSalat). And he who
purifies himself (from all kinds
of sins), then he purifies only
for the benefit of his ownself.
And to Allah is the (final) Return
(of all).
Qur'an 35:18

But characteristic of allah, he reverses his statement in:

Let them bear, on the Day of
Judgment, their own burdens in
full) and with (something} of
the burdens of those without
knowledge, whom they misled.
Alas, how grievous the burdens
they will bear!
Qur'an 16:25,

Don't trust allah, don't trust the quran, it is deception.

^^^^
Allah say a word and later debunked himself,He is not steady in his word.

malvisguy212:
^^^^
Allah say a word and later debunked himself,He is not steady in his word.

Allau Akbar indeed!

malvisguy212:
^^^^
Allah say a word and later debunked himself,He is not steady in his word.

truthman2012:
Islam is double-faced with the intention to deceive mankind. Every statement made by allah is reversed later making his words unreliable.
From the op:
74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed
Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.
Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
The above quranic quotes tell us everyone is liable to his own sins and will not bear the sin of another, even the sins of his parents.
That is further butressed by the following verses:
And no bearer of burdens shall
bear another's burden, and if
one heavily laden calls another
to (bear) his load, nothing of it
will be lifted even though he be
near of kin. You (O Muhammad
SAW) can warn only those who
fear their Lord unseen, and
perform As-Salat
(IqamatasSalat). And he who
purifies himself (from all kinds
of sins), then he purifies only
for the benefit of his ownself.
And to Allah is the (final) Return
(of all).
Qur'an 35:18
But characteristic of allah, he reverses his statement in:
Let them bear, on the Day of
Judgment, their own burdens in
full) and with (something} of
the burdens of those without
knowledge, whom they misled.
Alas, how grievous the burdens
they will bear!
Qur'an 16:25,
Don't trust allah, don't trust the quran, it is deception.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1858558_103789991001138323246114337170105653468337n_jpege9de1452e2a6f0d980635c70b99929e5

truthman2012:


Allau Akbar indeed!

www.nairaland.com/attachments/1908072_by6vmiecqaalzrn_jpeg_jpeg9f0e32cb21036cad88da896a775014f3

Rilwayne001:


www.nairaland.com/attachments/1858558_103789991001138323246114337170105653468337n_jpege9de1452e2a6f0d980635c70b99929e5

is like all muslims and atheists are photographers, they hardly say something without attached a picture on it. Keep it up.

truthman2012:


Allau Akbar indeed!

why will satan waited for 600 years before sending muhammed to contradicts the word of God? Surly if muhammed should preach his jihadist doctrine during the early church. Peter,Timothy,Paul and the rest of the witnesses would have rebuke him.God will never make a wrong timing in sending muhammed after 600 years to contradicts the bible because thousands of soul would have died before the coming of muhammed. Allau akba indeed

malvisguy212:
is like all muslims and atheists are photographers, they hardly say something without attached a picture on it. Keep it up.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2244382_4c0lc_jpeg158a4227255cf07cb93ffa41c380abc3

truthman2012:

Let them bear, on the Day of
Judgment, their own burdens in
full) and with (something} of
the burdens of those without
knowledge, whom they misled.
Alas, how grievous the burdens
they will bear!
Qur'an 16:25,

Don't trust allah, don't trust the quran, it is deception.

What does that underlined meant in your language?

Here's another verse:
"On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say: "Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger."

And they will say: "Our Lord! Verily, we obeyed our chiefs and our great ones, and they misled us from the (Right) Way.

Our Lord! give them double torment and curse them with a mighty curse!"
{Al-Ahzab: 66 - 68}

By doubling their punishment meant apart from their own sins, they will be punish for misleading others; and of course those foolish fellows who can't use their own discretion will also be punished.

malvisguy212:
why will satan waited for 600 years before sending muhammed to contradicts the word of God? Surly if muhammed should preach his jihadist doctrine during the early church. Peter,Timothy,Paul and the rest of the witnesses would have rebuke him.God will never make a wrong timing in sending muhammed after 600 years to contradicts the bible because thousands of soul would have died before the coming of muhammed. Allau akba indeed

My brother, the Devil is a very wise spirit and the bible recognizes it as such. The greatest success he has made in this world is islam with a population of about 1.8 billion.

As you rightly said, his waiting for 600+ years after Jesus before he introduced islam was on purpose. He waited for many generations at which time people had lost record of what happened in their own family talkless of other peoples family. He then lied to Muhammad that Abraham accompanied Ishmael and his mother, Hagai to Mecca where they built Kaaba. He never said what led him to drive Ishmael and from where.This is to create a belief that Kaaba was originally built by a prophet of God. Contrary to this, the bible proves that neither Abraham nor Ishmael ever lived in Mecca.

Another reason he waited for that long is to strategize. Firstly, he ordained war for muslims so that they could force people to submit, knowing fully well that people are afraid of death and knowing that Christians would not fight back, yet they say there is no compulsion in religion and that islam is a religion of peace. Saying something and doing another. This is not the character of the true God.

Secondly, he permitted muslims to marry many wives knowing that Christians marry only one. This is to make his faithfuls outnumber the Christians so that they can dominate the world and this is seriously working as planned. Not only that, he permits them to change old wife for a young one, so that after the old cannot bear children again, the young one will take over. Tell me, when did God start giving such permissions?

Thirdly, he makes islam attractive to human nature, man's carnal nature after fall by Adam and Eve. Muslims could sleep with any woman including slaves. He ordained that they could commit adultery. Infact quran 4:24 states they could pay a woman to sleep with her, known as temporary wife. On top of it, he promised them many virgins in heaven with the men having eternal ere.ction, as if all they do in heaven is sex. When did God start permitting such disgusting things.

He tried to introduce another abomination in the sight of God by enjoining Muhammad to marry the wife of his adopted son and also enjoins others to follow. Why should God direct his prophet to marry the wife of another man? Where did that happen before in God's dealing with man? I find it strange why sane muslims, even the highly educated ones could not detect allah and his manipulations. It is a pity. Since allah said it was no more wrong for men to marry their adopted sons' wives, why did he cancel adoption subsequently? Didn't he know he would cancel it before he permitted his faithfuls to copy Muhammad? I believe allah could not see the future.

He (allah) had to discredit the bible in order to introduce his own, quran. He claimed men have tampered with the Jews' and Christians' Scripture. The same allah said nothing can change his word (Quran 6:115). If he was the speaker in the earlier Scriptures, what justification does he have to say men changed his word after he had said nothing can change it? The quran is full of spiritual deception.

Bro., there are many more to talk about islam of Muhammad's allah later if the Lord tarries. I said allah of Muhammad because the Arabs call anything they worship allah, not necessarilly the God of heaven. It is clear that Muhammad's allah does not possess the holy character of the Father of Jesus, neither does he possess his power as his greatest prophet could not perform miracles.

AlBaqir:


What does that underlined meant in your language?

Here's another verse:
"On the Day when their faces will be turned over in the Fire, they will say: "Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger."

And they will say: "Our Lord! Verily, we obeyed our chiefs and our great ones, and they misled us from the (Right) Way.

Our Lord! give them double torment and curse them with a mighty curse!"
{Al-Ahzab: 66 - 68}

By doubling their punishment meant apart from their own sins, they will be punish for misleading others; and of course those foolish fellows who can't use their own discretion will also be punished.

As I earlier said and I repeat, quran is not the word of the true God. There is no prophet like Muhammad in everything unGodly. Don't trust it please.

Your quranic quotes have been nullified by the verse I cited above. Allah's word is unstable.

truthman2012:


My brother, the Devil is a very wise spirit and the bible recognizes it as such. The greatest success he has made in this world is islam with a population of about 1.8 billion.

As you rightly said, his waiting for 600+ years after Jesus before he introduced islam was on purpose. He waited for many generations at which time people had lost record of what happened in their own family talkless of other peoples family. He then lied to Muhammad that Abraham accompanied Ishmael and his mother, Hagai to Mecca where they built Kaaba. He never said what led him to drive Ishmael and from where.This is to create a belief that Kaaba was originally built by a prophet of God. Contrary to this, the bible proves that neither Abraham nor Ishmael ever lived in Mecca.

Another reason he waited for that long is to strategize. Firstly, he ordained war for muslims so that they could force people to submit, knowing fully well that people are afraid of death and knowing that Christians would not fight back, yet they say there is no compulsion in religion and that islam is a religion of peace. Saying something and doing another. This is not the character of the true God.

Secondly, he permitted muslims to marry many wives knowing that Christians marry only one. This is to make his faithfuls outnumber the Christians so that they can dominate the world and this is seriously working as planned. Not only that, he permits them to change old wife for a young one, so that after the old cannot bear children again, the young one will take over. Tell me, when did God start giving such permissions?

Thirdly, he makes islam attractive to human nature, man's carnal nature after fall by Adam and Eve. Muslims could sleep with any woman including slaves. He ordained that they could commit adultery. Infact quran 4:24 states they could pay a woman to sleep with her, known as temporary wife. On top of it, he promised them many virgins in heaven with the men having eternal erection, as if all they do in heaven is sex. When did God start permitting such disgusting things.

He tried to introduce another abomination in the sight of God by enjoining Muhammad to marry the wife of his adopted son and also enjoins others to follow. Why should God direct his prophet to marry the wife of another man? Where did that happen before in God's dealing with man? I find it strange why sane muslims, even the highly educated ones could not detect allah and his manipulations. It is a pity. Since allah said it was no more wrong for men to marry their adopted sons' wives, why did he cancel adoption subsequently? Didn't he know he would cancel it before he permitted his faithfuls to copy Muhammad? I believe allah could not see the future.

He (allah) had to discredit the bible in order to introduce his own, quran. He claimed men have tampered with the Jews' and Christians' Scripture. The same allah said nothing can change his word (Quran 6:115). If he was the speaker in the earlier Scriptures, what justification does he have to say men changed his word after he had said nothing can change it? The quran is full of spiritual deception.

Bro., there are many more to talk about islam of Muhammad's allah later if the Lord tarries. I said allah of Muhammad because the Arabs call anything they worship allah, not necessarilly the God of heaven. It is clear that Muhammad's allah does not possess the holy character of the Father of Jesus, neither does he possess his power as his greatest prophet could not perform miracles.

Good talk bro, nice one. Only if the muslims believe in the miraculous name of Jesus, this spell will be broken, but no, satan manipulate them not to believe in his name, some muslims will still claimed they believe in Jesus, but the bible say "even the demon believe in him and stumbled" good talk.

truthman2012:


As I earlier said and I repeat, quran is not the word of the true God. There is no prophet like Muhammad in everything unGodly. Don't trust it please.

Your quranic quotes have been nullified by the verse I cited above. Allah's word is unstable.

Really there is a huge difference between common sense, decency; and the reverse of those two words.

Rilwayne001:



Lemme summon those that are following you to come and see how low your IQ is.

ok i am here any cause for alarm

JESUS DIED FOR OUR MORTAL SIN, AND DEFEATED DEATH
#


WE HAVE VENIEAL AND MORTAL SIN

AlBaqir:


Really there is a huge difference between common sense, decency; and the reverse of those two words.

At least insult is better than beheading. Thank you.

But come to look at it again, is it untrue that allah is unstable? I have ample evidences to prove my point including the verses I quoted above. Check out this again, I will keep bringing them as we proceed:

Quran 3:83
Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the
heavens and the earth has
submitted to Him, WILLINGLY OR
BY COMPULSION?
This is against the earlier verse
(2:256) that says
there is no COMPULSION in religion. Allah, as usual nullifies his own word, making him unstable. What kind of spirit could he be? Reliable?

Then, is it true that every soul on earth has submitted to Allah? Why are there other religions? Why would the true God be saying something man can fault?

truthman2012:


At least insult is better than beheading. Thank you.

So "insult", "indecency", among other vices are preferred to you than common sense and decency?
Are you one of those bad eggs' pretenders that claimed to follow Jesus' teachings of peace?

truthman2012:

[s]But come to look at it again, is it untrue that allah is unstable? I have ample evidences to prove my point including the verses I quoted above. Check out this again, I will keep bringing them as we proceed:[/s]

Quran 3:83
Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the
heavens and the earth has
submitted to Him, WILLINGLY OR
BY COMPULSION?

Here's the proper translation of the verse:
"Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek; and to Him submits whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned"

The simple common sense explanation of the verse goes thus:
"Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek?
This is a question to those who reject God. And the best answer to them is giving:"...and to Him shall they be returned"

However, His absolute Majesty is giving to them (the unbelievers) to reflect on:
"..., and to Him submits whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly,... "

Willingly or unwillingly every soul will submit to:
* Death, or End of existence

In fact some simple common sense examples are
The Law of Nature designed by Allah which everything MUST submit:
# Eating to ward off hunger
# Drinking to quench thirst
# Sleeping
# Answering the call of nature
# Gravitational force etc etc
All of these has nothing to do with "faith" before you willingly or unwillingly submit to the command of the Almighty

As much as all these are total submission to the will of Allah, In another verse of the Qur'an, the unbelievers are ask: "...who created the heaven and the earth?...who sent forth water from heavens?... Then, Qur'an says they (these unbelievers) will answers "It is Allah!" Then, Qur'an challenges "then, why don't you submit?
That is where intellectual reasoning comes out.

This "submission" then, lead us to the second verse below:

truthman2012:

(2:256)
there is no COMPULSION in religion.

"Let there be no compulsion in Religion, for truth stand out clear from Error..."

When it comes to faith-based issues, it is something that has to do with intellect; and anything of intellect, there is choice in it.

Faith in God and all other characteristics of faith is simply bourne out of choice. There is conviction before faith can be established in the heart.
_______________________

Qur'an challenges:
"Do they not reflect on this Qur'an, or are there locks in their hearts?!"