I always wonder if B.sc and HND are suppose to be looked upon on thesame educational honour.

It also keeps me wondering when i see most vacancy adverts read;

"The applicants must have a minimum of B.sc,...e.t.c. while neither ND nor HND is honoured in most cases"

Is B.sc and HND really on thesame level? and what is the way forward...?

Burn your certificate if you do not like it or look for the job ment for HND or you go back to school.

What do you mean?

HND is equavalent to Bsc not the same as Bsc.

It is high time we Nigerians recognise that university education is not for every body. University education is met to provide the nation with skill managerial position and decision making while the polytechnic education met to provide highly skill technological advancement for the nation by training technicians and engineers in various fields.

As at today, BTEC HND, which is obtained in Britain, is not an equivalent of BSc but in other to the individual with BTEC HND goes for a top- up Degree called Post-HND Degree. The Post-HND Degree is similar to the Post-HND programme that is being run in Nigeria Polytechnic e.g. Yaba College Of Technology (Town Planning), Kaduna Polytechnic (Electrical Engineering, Civil Engineering, Building, Town Planning) And Achic Polytechnic (Building).

These programme have being approved by the Professional / Chartered Institute, The National Board For Technical Education (NBTE) and the registration council. The top-up degree holder is being admitted into the university for Master degree.

Other method of breaking the links of discrimination is through the professional institution such as the COREN, NSE, NIOB, CORBON, NITP, NIS, NIQS, EST. By taking their examination which is now one of the prerequisite for fathering ones education.

For me I am a proud polytechnic graduate that had the Post HND, HND and Masters degree with additional professional qualification. I do not feel or see any form of discrimination of any kind. I do not consider the university to be any different and also the university would have been inadequate for me as to provide me with the needed skills required to work as a Site Manager in Holland.

Why under this heaven the problem of discrimination between Theory Professionals (Bsc) and Technology Professionals (HND). I see this as an act of frustrating parients who do not have the ability to send their Children to University.

Not Every one can pass through University at the same time. HND is an alternative Degree that should be recognised by any authority, but discrimination has taking over the affairs of all Sectors. The Authority can Upgrade HND to B.Tech.

What all sectors should be interested in I think is Result Oriented Graduate who can live up to expectation. No one can measure that base on Paper Qualification but by putting them into practice.

It may sound veryb stupid to here that for every ICAN examination conducted every year, HND graduates perform brilliantly than their Bsc. counterpart.


Any serious minded person will agree me that putting the two to trial will reveal who stand the best.

You are right. As HND accountancy Pass ICAN more than the BSC Accounting because they write the part 1 exams whereas the Bsc is exempted. Did you read the SUN newspaper of last week? where a bank force all HND+ ICAN, HND + MBA etc holders out of work. It is crime for going through Polytechnic in NIGERIA.

Thats exactly what i've been trying to point out. Why is that so? I think we shoud try and find the solution

That is my crusade now. Check it out on AIT ETC War against polytechnic as this case was reported by me to NBTE.

The Nigerian Institute of Technologists In Engineering held its 2005 Annual General Meeting on Friday 11th and Saturday 12th November. The theme was “THE ENGINEERING TECHNOLOGIST IN NIGERIA – EDUCATION, REGULATION AND PROSPECTS”.

The Opening Ceremony was chaired by the President of Council for the Regulation of Engineering in Nigeria, Engr. Habu Gumel, OON, who was represented by the COREN Registrar, Engr. (Prof.) Olumide Ajose; with the Lagos State Hon. Commissioner for Works and Infrastructure, Engr. Rauf Aregbesola, FNATE, as the Chief Host; and featured addresses from them as well as the National President, Mr. Ramsey Nanna, who presented a Welcome Address in which he expressed pleasure at the presence of the invited dignitaries, traced the history of the body from inception to date and announced the official merger date of the Nigerian Association of Technological Engineers and the Nigerian Institute of Engineering Technologists to form the Nigerian Institute of Technologists in Engineering. At the Technical session papers were presented on the sub-themes by Engr. Prof. Olumide Ajose; Engr. Dr. Nuru Yakubu (Executive Secretary, NBTE) and Engr. Obasola Alabi (Membership Secretary, NITE).
The conference made the following observations:
That a myriad of problems confront the HND graduate in this country, the most prominent of these being:
The refusal to acknowledge the HND, obtained after five years of post-secondary education, as a professional qualification – a status it enjoyed in Britain whence we copied our own educational system.
The inadequate representation of technologists (and polytechnics) in the Council for the Regulation of Engineering in Nigeria.
COREN’s closure of the Mature Route to Engineer’s registration for the HND holder.
The Grade Level 14 bar placed on HND holders in the Civil Service, and
The stigmatisation of the polytechnic system of education and its products, especially the HND holders in every profession.
That all Engineering Technologists should join the Institute and participate actively in its programmes and activities to ensure its virility and reflect its true strength.
That, the merger being completed, COREN should work with the Institute to resolve problems affecting the Engineering Technologists. In this regard the Registrar of COREN, Engr. (Prof.) Olumide Ajose, promised that COREN will accept the Corporate Membership of NITE as adequate for registration as Engineering Technologist, subject to certificate verification, without an interview.

The conference:
Ø Called on COREN to reopen and retain the Mature Route to Registered Engineer status.
Ø Demanded a more equitable representation in COREN and the recognition of the HND as a full professional qualification failing which it should pursue the establishment of a Council for the Regulation of Engineering Technology in Nigeria.
Ø Roundly condemned the recent decision of a bank to disengage all its HND graduate employees and called on the Federal Government to immediately set in motion measures to permanently bring to an end any and all forms of discrimination against polytechnic graduates.
Ø Accepted the proposal by the National Board for Technical Education to arrange a meeting of stakeholders (Nigerian Institute of Technological Engineers, Council of Heads of Polytechnics in Nigeria & Federal Ministry of Education) to critically evaluate the issues relating to polytechnic education in Nigeria and articulate a policy position for resolving the unhealthy perception of this very important sector of our education.

I just hope all these their conference resolutions are not on paper. They look pretty OK.

I hope so too.

The case has now been settled.

At last at last my brother



The Grade Level 14 bar placed on HND holders in the Civil Service, and
The stigmatisation of the polytechnic system of education and its products, especially the HND holders in every profession.
Should be history as from today.

We hope so.

fastlinks:

It is about time we all need to realize that Nigerian System of education is something we should all be proud off.
It is not where you graduate or what kind of degree you got, it is all about been able to prove and deploy your acquired knowledge after the graduation.
I have been through Nigerian and American system of education, it is alot cheaper in Nigeria to go to school but more expensive over here. All degrees are just a steping stone in live, we still have a long way to go after graduation. Working for schlumberger while I was in Nigeria as been a big challege for me. We all need to team and work together. Nigerian employers need to stop decriminating and hire who is fit and qualify for the job. As for me, I look for the potentials in all my employee not where they graduate, how they graduate or where they come from. No matter where we go, we still going to be trained on the job.

Exactly!

i heard that that the national assembly is putting up a law on it

The Institute of Management and Tecnology to award BTech certificates to 2006/2007 HND students

Did someone just write that University Education is not for everybody? That person needs education. As far as I am concerned I only recognize about 15 Universities in Nigeria. They rest are glorified secondary schools and it upsets me when people compare products of such universities to products of some polytechics like Yaba, Auchi, Kad Poly etc. I am based in America and the universities and Polytechnics all award first degrees. I have even seen some Nigerian trained graduates in the graduate schools. Some are good and some cannot even write applications without making mistates in every sentence. Some cannot even write papers in mla or apa styles. All the people who portray Nigerian Universities as schools on the moon should keep silent and hide their heads in shame.

I know u dont know this. HND is gradually fading out or has been made to be inferior to university degrees around the world, even in the UK. This is becos u spend just 2 years to get HND inUK and 3 years to get a BSC. But in nigeria HND sholud be equivalent or even more than a BSc becos u spend 5 years (4 academic years and 1 year industrial training) before u can get HND. Take a look at the course curriculum for HND programs u will find out that the credit hours is equal or greater than that of so many degree programs in nigeria. I think we should be talking of credit load now and not Bsc /HND or university/polytechnic.

I have HND in statistics and have been opportuned to discuss with guys that hold BSc in statistics or mathematics. I discovered that there were so many courses and their applications that they did not do in school (university). I made fun of them during my NYSC orientation in Lagos. I told many of them to go back to school and complete the course. I called them unqualified statisticians and mathematicians. Yes! some of them did not use computers in their Bsc maths or stats course, yet they claim they are mathematics /statistics graduate. Tell me any where in the world where u get a Bsc in mathematics or statistics without good computing knowledge and skills? Its only in Nigerian universities. The ploytechnics are trying in nigeria. They give u full computer practicals in computer science and statistics(ND/HND). That is why i,m able to work as a system administrator in one of the biggest companies in the country, but i hold HND in statistics. Check the course curriculum to see for urself. U can get one from NBTE kaduna. Bye.

The discrmination about the graduates of universities and polytechnics is becoming something that one has to sleep over it day and night. Universities are the superior types of institutions we have in Nigera accepted, but what if i say here that u cannot compare the output in academics (credit load) in the polytechnics to the university and if you go into any lecture hall in the university you will be ammazed of the type of crowd (700 or more students) you have in there. What is the possibility that all the students in that lecture has gotten what the leturer has taught for that day compared to the Poly's where u have about 20 for 50 in a lecture hall. Tell me which side will yield the most positive result in academics ? aand at times u come across some that have finished the university and cannot even do a little practical using the computer (after the NYSC program). They become a bond of stress to the HND holders which is teaching them and some of them cannot write a simple note that is detected to them. what a pity. yet employers are doing as if B.sc is the biggest thing they have ever come across in their life. I am saying this from experience.

Don (Port Harcourt)

good talk

donbrown thanx jo. I dont blame them, i blame nigerian government for insensitivity to technical and technological education for a long time. I think they are coming back to their senses now. I still hold the opinion that a Bsc may look bigger or superior to HND when pronounced or called  but looks smaller and inferior to HND academically and technically. What is happening in nigeria is that a cabal or a group of employers already know that when HND and Bsc guys sit for any exams or test, a greater proportion of successful guys hold HND and when put in the same level in the same office the difference is always clear. The HND guys are turned into tutors, who teach the Bsc guys those things they really need to work with which they were not opportuned to learn in the universities. This situation really bothered men that belong to that cabal (employers with Bsc) and as such they decided to frustrate HND holders so that they will no longer disgrace and embarrass their fellow colleagues with Bsc again. But it won't work again in nigeria, we are beginning to realise that development of this country physically and economically lies in the hands of technologist (HND holders). Whether you get your Bsc from where ever university or what ever university, i still hold my personal opinion that one of the best qualifications that have proved itself to be among the best in the world is the Nigerian Higher National Diploma (HND). take it or leave it anybody!! Try and get HND and see for yourself any Bsc holder. Thank God a lot of guys with HND have gone in to do the so called Bsc programs, ask them they will tell you the difference. Bsc is just a name jo!! Most people with Bsc are just empty vessels that make the loudest noise, they dont know any thing. Thank God things are beginning to change now in Nigeria.

You need to know that majority of those in the university today once had National diploma from the polytechnic.

Our society listen only to what people say. The Bsc holders job is no longer available in Nigeria. All what they try to do is to take over available spaces. But luck ran against them as they lack the skill to be on their own. We HND holders moved faster having both the skill and additional qualifications, before they could understand it we have PGD, Masters Etc. Please have a change of heart as the polytechnic now shines. Not for drop out again says the same society.

It keeps me wondering when i see most vacancy adverts read applicants must posses B.sc and those advertising these vacancies forget where they came up from. Think of it, some of them could not even have the opportunity to go into the university; they went through the polytechnic and after having a lucurative job they went into the university with their HND to posses a B.sc which they would not have possed without the help of a polytechnic degree, tell me why is this discrimination going on ? .

"Aig Imokhuede, the head of the three fusing banks- Access, Marina and Capital banks- under the name Access Bank "'stirred the hornet's nest" last week when he summoned staff of the other two fusing banks (Marina and Capital banks) who have come to join Access Bank and had surrendered their identities to the new Access group and sacked them on the account of their qualifications and institutions attended."

This is quotation was made on the day access bank sacked its staff during the merging of banks. The head of the bank has forgoten that even if he did not attain a polytechnic that one of his or her people have attanded one. Does he/she think that having a university degree and not knowing what to do is what we are considering; but what is your output is what we are talking about here. Well i dont blame them because even our labour leaders cannot say anything about that situation, it now seems that they are behaving like caged parrots and allowing those that have not been opportuned to have a B.Sc to suffer for no just cause. I guess the greatest thing to do for this madness to stop is to just pray for them all.

Please let somebody help me call our President, althogh he had said something about that situation, i guess no body had not yet put it into effect. Well i have to say this that what ever is happening now around the country is their ignorance and greedyness in high places because if he (President) have stand his grounds about this situation, this madness will stop. Even if u go to an establishment now and u are denied ur right, go to court and it is there that u will know that the President did not say any thing at all concerning the degree discremination in Nigeria. The court will even rule against you; i dont know if it is an offence now for HND holders to look for work in Nigeria.

May almighty SOLUDO, with the Grace of OBJ and Mighty name of RiBadu deal with Acess bank the way they delt with HND holderds Amen

Bros, I hail u all oo!! lets not rely on those guys in the National assembly oo. They are only after issues that will bring out money from the federation account into their Ghana-must-go bags. The plight of polytechnics and the discrimination of HND holders in nigeria is well known to them, but that will not bring money into their pockets at the end of the day; so they will never move a motion nor discuss about it. For long now ASUP members have been talking about National polytechnics commission; has it been created? Have they granted polytechnics the go ahead to run post graduate programs? Have they removed the disparity between poly and uni lecturers? NO is the answer to all these questions. They only move motions, argue and sometimes even fight and throw chairs at each other on issues that will never move the country forward but will make them become rich either through bribery or the other way. Dont mind them, we shall get there soon with or without them.

I will like to hear what the folks with Bsc have got to say, in the face of all these challenges thrown at them.

My suggestion to all of us in Polytechnics is to go for direct entry now we still have the time or,
as for me I'm going for direct entry in my 200 levels