Recently a certain career liar whose behavior can best be describe as a decent into savage greed and willful dishonesty posted a thread on Islam and labelled tarqiyyah its most powerful weapon, but Islam has no need for weapons, Truth is Islam, Truth is what Islam preaches.
The truthfulness associated with the Holy Prophet Muhammad Pbuh made people during his life time call him the trustworthy. So the Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was acknowledged by those who lived during his life time as being one who is truthful and did not promote deceit or dishonesty.

What Does Islam Preaches? Islam preaches submission to Allah by obeying all his command, being righteous, truthful, just, etc.

What is Tarqiyyah? Tarqiyyah translates as Dissimulation of Faith, it is the permitted only in a situation where once fears for his life like Peter the apostle of Jesus christ did when he feared for his life,

Peter Denies Jesus

54 Then they seized him and led him away, bringing him into the high priest's house, and Peter was following at a distance. 55 And when they had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard and sat down together, Peter sat down among them. 56 Then a servant girl, seeing him as he sat in the light and looking closely at him, said, “This man also was with him.” 57 But he denied it, saying, “Woman, I do not know him.” 58 And a little later someone else saw him and said, “Y[b]ou also are one of them.” But Peter said, “Man, I am not.” [/b]59 And after an interval of about an hour still another insisted, saying, “Certainly this man also was with him, for he too is a Galilean.” 60 But Peter said, “Man, I do not know what you are talking about.” And immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.” 62 And he went out and wept bitterly. Luke 25:54

as we can see Peter did what he had to because feared for his life, so under similar circumstance, a Muslim is allowed to renounce his faith if he fears his life.

Jesus Practiced Tarqiyyah? With all sense of respect and reverence, the bibles suggest this, as Jesus was dressed as a gardner after his alleged crucifixion,
[i]
He asked her, "Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him." [/i]John 20:15


Again we see for safety reasons Jesus disguised himself to be a Gardner so as not to be recognized. what does that Mean? Tarqiyyah, if Tarqiyyah is such an evil thing we wouldn't see Jesus himself practice or Peter do it.

Islam unlike Christianity gains nothing from the death of people or its followers Allah is not pleased by the deaths of good people, Tarqiyyah is permitted because Islam places a huge importance on the lives of the humanity, that is why we read in the Qurán; Al- Quran 5:32

“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people"


But the career liar didn't stop at lies but resort to distorting the verses of the Qurán and hadith to make his lies believable, he cited various verses without giving actual quotes;
unlike our dishonest career liar we shall give you full quotes of verses for you to judge for yourself

16:106: Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;

Nowhere did the verses promoted deceit or lies, or tarqiyyah, it said clearly except you are forced to convert, but career liar wouldn't even let you make up your minds

3:28 Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.

Where does the above verse speak of tarqiyyah, rather it warns of the danger of taking the pagan meccans for allies rather than your fellow muslims.

9:3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

Our career liar resorted to alluding to things that where never said stated, no mention of tarqiyyah occurs here in fact 9:4 speaks of the importance of holding unto treaty signed with the pagan meccans.

We have been able to establish that falsehood has been the driving force behind the slander about Islam and tarqiyyah, but you owe it to yourself to read the Qurán for yourself rather than help self appointed interpreters who should better be called pervertors of the words written in the Qurán, www.quran.com

But not finished the career Liar went on to distort sayings in the hadith,

Bukhari (52:269): War is deciet We advice the career liar to do a research on how wars are fought and won, the CIA uses deciet, Mossad does the same, unfortuntely for him we read a lot of deceit same in the bible:

15- Thou shalt not LIE, but yet, GOD Almighty supposedly detailed for Samuel how to trick & tell HALF TRUTH to Saul:

1 Samuel 16:1-13
1 The LORD said to Samuel, "How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way; I am sending you to Jesse of Bethlehem. I have chosen one of his sons to be king."
2 But Samuel said, "How can I go? Saul will hear about it and kill me." The LORD said, "Take a heifer with you and say, 'I have come to sacrifice to the LORD.'
3 Invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you what to do. You are to anoint for me the one I indicate."
Roman 1:7 But if the truth of God through m[b]y lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?
[/b]
Philippians 1:15-18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

The rest of what he wrote are no better than some unstable individual ranting on Fox news!

vedaxcool:
Recently a certain career liar whose behavior can best be describe as a decent into savage greed and willful dishonesty posted a thread on Islam and labelled tarqiyyah its most powerful weapon, but Islam has no need for weapons, Truth is Islam, Truth is what Islam preaches.
The truthfulness associated with the Holy Prophet Muhammad Pbuh made people during his life time call him the trustworthy. So the Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was acknowledged by those who lived during his life time as being one who is truthful and did not promote deceit or dishonesty.

What Does Islam Preaches? Islam preaches submission to Allah by obeying all his command, being righteous, truthful, just, etc.

...............

......
Islam unlike Christianity gains nothing from the death of people or its followers Allah is not pleased by the deaths of good people, Tarqiyyah is permitted because Islam places a huge importance on the lives of the humanity, that is why we read in the Qurán; Al- Quran 5:32

“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people"


........

The popular delivery
of the verse says;
From Qu'ran 5:32, “...If anyone slays a person, it would be as if he slew
the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved
the life of the whole people.”
Now let's look at a popular early Muslim interpretation;
According to the highly respected Qur'anic exegesis of Ibn Kathir-
early Qur'anic commentator and Tabi'un, Sayid ibn Jubayr (who lived at
the time of ProphetMuhammad, and was a companion ofAisha), had said:
[ ﻓَﻜَﺄَﻧَّﻤَﺎ ﻗَﺘَﻞَ ﺍﻟﻨَّﺎﺱَ ﺟَﻤِﻴﻌﺎً ]
.....Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "He who allows himself to shed the blood of a
Muslim, is like he who allows shedding the blood of all people. He who
forbids shedding the blood of one Muslim, is like he who forbids
shedding the blood of all people."
**So early understanding of the verse claims it applies only to shedding
the blood of a believer(Muslim). This can be disputed so let's go back to
the Qu'ran.
The Fuller context says;
Qu'ran 5:32-34, "On that account: Therefore we prescribed for the
Children of Israel that who so slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul
slain, nor for corruption done in the land, shall be as if he had slain
mankind altogether; and who so gives life to a soul, shall be as if he has
given life to mankind altogether. Our Messengers have already come to
them with the clear signs; then many of them thereafter commit
excesses in the earth.

This is the recompense of those who fight against God and His
Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they
shall be SLAUGHTERED, or CRUCIFIED, or their hands and feet shall
alternately be STRUCK OFF; or they shall be banished from the land.
That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come
awaits them a mighty chastisement,
except for such as repent, before you have power over them. So know
you that God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate."
*** Notice how you can slay a person if the person spreads corruption in
the land or as some translations call it, "mischief". This "corruption in
the land" or "mischief" can mean anything such as Preaching the
Gospel of Christ, making Muslims uncomfortable by questioning the
Qu'ran or Muhammed, drawing Mohammed, supporting western education
etc This has therefore been an excused used by Jihadists like
BokoHaram, ISIS, Hamas, hezbollah, Al shabba, Alqueda etc to murder,
kill and destroy.
Finally a very brief explanation of the verse by an Ex-Muslim-
We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person -
unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land- it would
be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would
be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came
to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of
them continued to commit excesses in the land.

Salient points:
1 - It explicitly states that this was a commandment to the Children of
Israel, i.e. the Jews! This is not a commandment to all people, and it
certainly should not be misused as if this is Allah's command to
Muhammad's people.
2 - Even if this were a command to the Muslims, there's still an escape
clause: "unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land." If
someone is "spreading mischief", he can still be killed. Now let's think
for a moment. The would-be Times Square bomber considers Americans
to be spreading mischief in Palestine and around the world (practically
all Muslims I know think this, even the ones who are American citizens).
Accordingly, even if this verse were to apply to someone like Faisal
Shahzad, he would still be justified in his slaughter.
As if this weren't obvious enough from the verse itself, the Qur'an
further expounds this point in the very next verse. 5:33 says
The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and
strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution,
or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides,
or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy
punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.
This verse is referring to the Muslims, not the Jews anymore, as we can
tell in the shift from past tense to present tense. And here, the
punishment for mischief is clearly prescribed: execution, crucifixion,
mutilation, or at the least, exile. This is the command given to the
Muslims. Quite clearly, it does not teach what the Muslims proclaim it
teaches; in fact, it teaches almost the exact opposite.
It is undeniably clear that, in order to make Islam seem peaceful, Nazam
and many other Muslims rip this verse out of its context, take words out
of the very verse itself, changing the entire message for something
else. I wonder if they know they are guilty of Surah 5:13.
In any case, we should not let ourselves (or anyone who might be
interested) be deceived by the popular Muslim interpretation of these
verses.

Jazakum Allah khayran. Clear enough.

vedaxcool:
Recently a certain career liar whose behavior can best be describe as a decent into savage greed and willful dishonesty posted a thread on Islam and labelled tarqiyyah its most powerful weapon, but Islam has no need for weapons, Truth is Islam, Truth is what Islam preaches.
The truthfulness associated with the Holy Prophet Muhammad Pbuh made people during his life time call him the trustworthy. So the Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was acknowledged by those who lived during his life time as being one who is truthful and did not promote deceit or dishonesty.

What Does Islam Preaches? Islam preaches submission to Allah by obeying all his command, being righteous, truthful, just, etc.
What is Tarqiyyah? Tarqiyyah translates as Dissimulation of Faith, it is the permitted only in a situation where once fears for his life like Peter the apostle of Jesus christ did when he feared for his life,

Peter Denies Jesus
54 Then they seized him and led him away, bringing him into the high priest's house, and Peter was following at a distance. 55 And when they had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard and sat down together, Peter sat down among them. 56 Then a servant girl, seeing him as he sat in the light and looking closely at him, said, “This man also was with him.” 57 But he denied it, saying, “Woman, I do not know him.” 58 And a little later someone else saw him and said, “Y[b]ou also are one of them.” But Peter said, “Man, I am not.” [/b]59 And after an interval of about an hour still another insisted, saying, “Certainly this man also was with him, for he too is a Galilean.” 60 But Peter said, “Man, I do not know what you are talking about.” And immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.” 62 And he went out and wept bitterly. Luke 25:54
as we can see Peter did what he had to because feared for his life, so under similar circumstance, a Muslim is allowed to renounce his faith if he fears his life.
Jesus Practiced Tarqiyyah? With all sense of respect and reverence, the bibles suggest this, as Jesus was dressed as a gardner after his alleged crucifixion,
[i]
He asked her, "Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him." [/i]John 20:15
Again we see for safety reasons Jesus disguised himself to be a Gardner so as not to be recognized. what does that Mean? Tarqiyyah, if Tarqiyyah is such an evil thing we wouldn't see Jesus himself practice or Peter do it.
Islam unlike Christianity gains nothing from the death of people or its followers Allah is not pleased by the deaths of good people, Tarqiyyah is permitted because Islam places a huge importance on the lives of the humanity, that is why we read in the Qurán; Al- Quran 5:32
“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people"
But the career liar didn't stop at lies but resort to distorting the verses of the Qurán and hadith to make his lies believable, he cited various verses without giving actual quotes;
unlike our dishonest career liar we shall give you full quotes of verses for you to judge for yourself
16:106: Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;
Nowhere did the verses promoted deceit or lies, or tarqiyyah, it said clearly except you are forced to convert, but career liar wouldn't even let you make up your minds
3:28 Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.
Where does the above verse speak of tarqiyyah, rather it warns of the danger of taking the pagan meccans for allies rather than your fellow muslims.
9:3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
Our career liar resorted to alluding to things that where never said stated, no mention of tarqiyyah occurs here in fact 9:4 speaks of the importance of holding unto treaty signed with the pagan meccans.
We have been able to establish that falsehood has been the driving force behind the slander about Islam and tarqiyyah, but you owe it to yourself to read the Qurán for yourself rather than help self appointed interpreters who should better be called pervertors of the words written in the Qurán, www.quran.com
But not finished the career Liar went on to distort sayings in the hadith,
Bukhari (52:269): War is deciet We advice the career liar to do a research on how wars are fought and won, the CIA uses deciet, Mossad does the same, unfortuntely for him we read a lot of deceit same in the bible:
15- Thou shalt not LIE, but yet, GOD Almighty supposedly detailed for Samuel how to trick & tell HALF TRUTH to Saul:
1 Samuel 16:1-13
1 The LORD said to Samuel, "How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way; I am sending you to Jesse of Bethlehem. I have chosen one of his sons to be king."
2 But Samuel said, "How can I go? Saul will hear about it and kill me." The LORD said, "Take a heifer with you and say, 'I have come to sacrifice to the LORD.'
3 Invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you what to do. You are to anoint for me the one I indicate."
Roman 1:7 But if the truth of God through m[b]y lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?
[/b]
Philippians 1:15-18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
The rest of what he wrote are no better than some unstable individual ranting on Fox news!

As an atheist, I have no bone in this fight, but most Muslims are unfamiliar with taqiyya. It is an idea occasionally discussed by Shia clerics, but it does not have wide currency in the Muslim world. While I find many legitimate reasons to criticise certain religious claims and beliefs, it is false to claim that deception/taqiyya is some kind of general practice among Muslims.

I should add that I am working in a country that is more than 80% Muslim.

Abuamam:
Jazakum Allah khayran. Clear enough.

Amin wa yaku.

Jazakumullahu khairan brothers. InshaAllah I will create a thread inform of library to put links to the likely recycled topics

onetrack:
As an atheist, I have no bone in this fight, but most Muslims are unfamiliar with taqiyya. It is an idea occasionally discussed by Shia clerics, but it does not have wide currency in the Muslim world. While I find many legitimate reasons to criticise certain religious claims and beliefs, it is false to claim that deception/taqiyya is some kind of general practice among Muslims.

I should add that I am working in a country that is more than 80% Muslim.

Actually, the prophet (saw) strongly condemned lying in many hadith. It is shameful to be caught in a lie as a Muslim.

The prophet (saw) was asked whether a believer could be a coward? He said, “Yes, he could be coward".
Then it was asked whether a believer could be a miser? He replied, “Yes, he can be a miser”.
It was then asked whether a believer could be a liar? He replied, “No, a believer cannot be a liar.” (Imam Malik, Mishkaat)

Abu Hurairah (RA) narrates, in a hadith, that the Prophet (saw) said, “The signs of a hypocrite are three; whenever he speaks, he tells a lie; whenever he promises, he breaks his promise; if you have trust in him, he proves to be dishonest.”

In another hadith narrated by Abu Hurairah(RA), the Prophet (saw) said,
“Whoever does not give up false statements (i.e. telling lies), and evil deeds, and uttering bad words to others, Allah is not in need of his (fasting) leaving his food and drink.”
This is a clear indication to us how evil speaking lies is in the sight of Allah Taala that Allah Taala will not accept our acts of worship because of our telling lies.

Abdullah ibn Umar narrates that the prophet (saw) said,
“When a man lies, the angel moves a mile from him because of the bad odour of what he has produced.”

Samura bin Jundub relates that the Prophet(saw) said, “I saw (in a dream), two men came to me.” Then the Prophet(saw) narrated the story (saying), “They said, `The person, the one whose cheek you saw being torn away (from the mouth to the ear) was a liar and used to tell lies and the people would report those lies on his authority till they spread all over the world. So he will be punished like that till the day of Resurrection.`”

Abdullah narrates that the Prophet(saw) said,
“Truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to paradise. And a man keeps on telling the truth until he becomes a truthful person. Falsehood leads to Al-Fajur(i.e. wickedness, evil-doing), and Al-Fajur(wickedness) leads to the (Hell) fire, and a man may keep on telling lies till he is written before Allah, as a liar.”

If then, Muslims are punishable for worldly lies, how then can a Muslim lie about Allah, just to 'convert' an unbeliever?

Wa nauuzu billah.

Ifeann:



Salient points:
1 - It explicitly states that this was a commandment to the Children of
Israel, i.e. the Jews! This is not a commandment to all people, and it
certainly should not be misused as if this is Allah's command to
Muhammad's people.
2 - Even if this were a command to the Muslims, there's still an escape
clause: "unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land." If
someone is "spreading mischief", he can still be killed. Now let's think
for a moment. The would-be Times Square bomber considers Americans
to be spreading mischief in Palestine and around the world (practically
all Muslims I know think this, even the ones who are American citizens).
Accordingly, even if this verse were to apply to someone like Faisal
Shahzad, he would still be justified in his slaughter.
As if this weren't obvious enough from the verse itself, the Qur'an
further expounds this point in the very next verse. 5:33 says
The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and
strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution,
or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides,
or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy
punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.
This verse is referring to the Muslims, not the Jews anymore, as we can
tell in the shift from past tense to present tense. And here, the
punishment for mischief is clearly prescribed: execution, crucifixion,
mutilation, or at the least, exile. This is the command given to the
Muslims. Quite clearly, it does not teach what the Muslims proclaim it
teaches; in fact, it teaches almost the exact opposite.
It is undeniably clear that, in order to make Islam seem peaceful, Nazam
and many other Muslims rip this verse out of its context, take words out
of the very verse itself, changing the entire message for something
else. I wonder if they know they are guilty of Surah 5:13.
In any case, we should not let ourselves (or anyone who might be
interested) be deceived by the popular Muslim interpretation of these
verses.

Ifeann thanks a lot, you had indeed explained the context of the verses, quran 5:32-34, better than the way I could have, though we share 99% of the understanding of the verse. I need not explain more.

Lying is fully endorssed in Islam. See hadith below:

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

Muslim Book 032, Number 6303: Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good.

Bukhari Vol.1 Bk.7 No.1331 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.

1. Allah made me victorious by awe by His terrorizing my enemies.

2. The earth has been made for me.

3. Booty has been made lawful for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.

4. I have been given the right of intercession.

5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.’”

Quran-8:1— “They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war (booty). Say: “(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe.”

Quran-8:41— “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah and the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, – if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing, – the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.”

At this age and time, it is almost impossible for muslims to keep up with lies and deceptions. Al-taqiyya is the 6th pillar of Islam.

Truth is wen muhamMAD ask his followers to drink carmel piss
Truth is wen muhamMAD told us he divided the moon into two

true2god:
Ifeann thanks a lot, you had indeed explained the context of the verses, quran 5:32-34, better than the way I could have, though we share 99% of the understanding of the verse. I need not explain more.

Lying is fully endorssed in Islam. See hadith below:

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

Muslim Book 032, Number 6303: Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good.

Ok, why not mention that if an armed robber enters your house, then asks for your daughters, you will show him where they are hiding, because you are truthful?
Why not mention that when your wife asks you whether she is still the prettiest woman to you, you say "no, our neighbour's daughter is prettier" so you can be truthful?

true2god:

Bukhari Vol.1 Bk.7 No.1331 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.

1. Allah made me victorious by awe by His terrorizing my enemies.

2. The earth has been made for me.

3. Booty has been made lawful for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.

4. I have been given the right of intercession.

5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.’”

Quran-8:1— “They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war (booty). Say: “(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe.”

Quran-8:41— “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah and the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, – if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing, – the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.”

T O T A L L Y I R R E L E V A N T T O T O P I C.
Just body filler. Now THAT is what I call deception.

Abuamam:


Ok, why not mention that if an armed robber enters your house, then asks for your daughters, you will show him where they are hiding, because you are truthful?
Why not mention that when your wife asks you whether she is still the prettiest woman to you, you say "no, our neighbour's daughter is prettier" so you can be truthful?



T O T A L L Y I R R E L E V A N T T O T O P I C.
Just body filler. Now THAT is what I call deception.

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number
857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint
Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle
saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING
good information or saying good
things, is not a liar.”

Do you take someone that has this view as a prophet? Someone that endorsses lies in order to settle quarells? I am holding this because your prophet is expected to me a man of high moral standard which he is not.

The popular delivery
of the verse says;
From Qu'ran 5:32, “...If anyone slays a person, it would be as if he slew
the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved
the life of the whole people.”
Now let's look at a popular early Muslim interpretation;
According to the highly respected Qur'anic exegesis of Ibn Kathir-
early Qur'anic commentator and Tabi'un, Sayid ibn Jubayr (who lived at
the time of ProphetMuhammad, and was a companion ofAisha), had said:
[ ﻓَﻜَﺄَﻧَّﻤَﺎ ﻗَﺘَﻞَ ﺍﻟﻨَّﺎﺱَ ﺟَﻤِﻴﻌﺎً ]
.....Sa`id bin Jubayr said, "He who allows himself to shed the blood of a
Muslim, is like he who allows shedding the blood of all people. He who
forbids shedding the blood of one Muslim, is like he who forbids
shedding the blood of all people."
**So early understanding of the verse claims it applies only to shedding
the blood of a believer(Muslim). This can be disputed so let's go back to
the Qu'ran.
The Fuller context says;
Qu'ran 5:32-34, "On that account: Therefore we prescribed for the
Children of Israel that who so slays a soul not to retaliate for a soul
slain, nor for corruption done in the land, shall be as if he had slain
mankind altogether; and who so gives life to a soul, shall be as if he has
given life to mankind altogether. Our Messengers have already come to
them with the clear signs; then many of them thereafter commit
excesses in the earth.

(Quote) (Report) (Like) (Share)
Re: Truth Not Tarqiyyah Is What Islam Preahces by Ifeann(f): 11:32am
This is the recompense of those who fight against God and His
Messenger, and hasten about the earth, to do corruption there: they
shall be SLAUGHTERED, or CRUCIFIED, or their hands and feet shall
alternately be STRUCK OFF; or they shall be banished from the land.
That is a degradation for them in this world; and in the world to come
awaits them a mighty chastisement,
except for such as repent, before you have power over them. So know
you that God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate."
*** Notice how you can slay a person if the person spreads corruption in
the land or as some translations call it, "mischief". This "corruption in
the land" or "mischief" can mean anything such as Preaching the
Gospel of Christ, making Muslims uncomfortable by questioning the
Qu'ran or Muhammed, drawing Mohammed, supporting western education
etc This has therefore been an excused used by Jihadists like
BokoHaram, ISIS, Hamas, hezbollah, Al shabba, Alqueda etc to murder,
kill and destroy.
Finally a very brief explanation of the verse by an Ex-Muslim-
We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person -
unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land- it would
be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would
be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came
to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of
them continued to commit excesses in the land.

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Re: Truth Not Tarqiyyah Is What Islam Preahces by Ifeann(f): 11:32am
Salient points:
1 - It explicitly states that this was a commandment to the Children of
Israel, i.e. the Jews! This is not a commandment to all people, and it
certainly should not be misused as if this is Allah's command to
Muhammad's people.
2 - Even if this were a command to the Muslims, there's still an escape
clause: "unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land." If
someone is "spreading mischief", he can still be killed. Now let's think
for a moment. The would-be Times Square bomber considers Americans
to be spreading mischief in Palestine and around the world (practically
all Muslims I know think this, even the ones who are American citizens).
Accordingly, even if this verse were to apply to someone like Faisal
Shahzad, he would still be justified in his slaughter.
As if this weren't obvious enough from the verse itself, the Qur'an
further expounds this point in the very next verse. 5:33 says
The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and
strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution,
or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides,
or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy
punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.
This verse is referring to the Muslims, not the Jews anymore, as we can
tell in the shift from past tense to present tense. And here, the
punishment for mischief is clearly prescribed: execution, crucifixion,
mutilation, or at the least, exile. This is the command given to the
Muslims. Quite clearly, it does not teach what the Muslims proclaim it
teaches; in fact, it teaches almost the exact opposite.
It is undeniably clear that, in order to make Islam seem peaceful, Nazam
and many other Muslims rip this verse out of its context, take words out
of the very verse itself, changing the entire message for something
else. I wonder if they know they are guilty of Surah 5:13.
In any case, we should not let ourselves (or anyone who might be
interested) be deceived by the popular Muslim interpretation of these
verses.

"Thou shall not kill" is one of the 10 Commandments. it is explicit and similar to the verse above. if we take the verse above to be the commandment, we in Islam believe in both Moses and revelation given to him [AS].




if we believe in Moses, we have to take what is good from him and we reject the actions of pharaoh and what led to his destruction we believe in Jesus and what was revealed to him, including the reformation he [AS] made on what Moses brought. both were prophets [AS] to us, Jesus being the seal of the chain of prophetic office exclusively to the children of Israel, while Muhammad [SA] came after him to be the only universal prophet and the seal of universal prophet. The law of Moses was a tooth for a tooth, etc, a life for a life [if you pay for a tooth, the people you took life from will ask you to pay!]. Jesus reformed what Moses brought, allowing forgiveness while the christians say Jesus cancelled retaliation altogether. it is clear that no time in the history of the jews that the jews as a people or individual did not kill to preserve their lives. it is foolish and very suicidal for a person to not defend his life, property, honor when it is easy to do so if it is clear to you that someone is wishing to snatch it.




The harsh law of Moses about revenge is 180 degrees to the over simplified unattainable forgiveness of no revenge brought by Jesus [i doubt if both noble souls were accurately represented in the bible. the truth lies between the 2 extremes]. to allow people wronged to avenge and discourage evil and at the same time allow those who wish to forgive have the window to do so, Allah raised Muhammad [SA] to bring balance; Muhammad [SA] provided 3 options; you can retaliate only in equal measure or get financial compensation or the best out of the 3 is to forgive without anything in return for the sake of God Who can give you the best reward for your loss.





again, there is a reason the verse that cautioned the jews was revealed in the Quran. at least it is a need to know how previous believer nation was cautioned, since verses of punishment for previous disbeliever nation are in the Quran as well. but i say that the verse is talking about preserving life of human and it is related to us for reasons more that i can list here. but it must include that we in Islam should take a lesson of caution in it and do not lay waste the lives that we are not the Creator. after all Muslims are told not to kill animals except the meat, etc must be harvested for consumption.





there is no possible reformation to don't kill, except that it excludes the worst kind of people, the hardened evildoers whose death will have a greater benefit for the society at large than the individual benefit for keeping them alive. the armed robbers were killed in the days. it stopped the wave somewhat, then. if the drug pushers, the fraudsters were killed and definitely if the rapists who killed the young nigerian woman 'cynthia' i think, were killed, they will not be alive to or those who wish to be copycat will know there is a harsh punishment for it. it is not always safe to turn the other cheek.





in surah furqan verse 68, you will find exactly what definitely is best, combining the law of Moses [AS] and the reformation of Jesus [AS]. after all, Jesus could not possibly advocate that it is injustice to kill 'a brutal killer' and Moses could not possibly advocate the killing of innocent person who is clearly innocent. Muhammad {SA] satisfies those who are socially conservative, moderate and liberal. in short the verse in Furqan summarizes and it is the today and the future of man of the laws of Moses and Jesus combined; And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right, and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty.




it is deception or naive to use evil group or individual to paint the whole community. the 'times square bomber' lived in connecticut. there are many muslims that live in Manhattan where times square is located. indeed muslims live in neighborhoods around times square and even more affluent midtown, both upper east and west side neighborhoods and many others on the island of manhattan. not all are diplomats. you have attorneys, medical doctors, etc and indeed business owner and we are not talking about only eatery here. there are masajid in these places. incidentally, it was a muslim who called 911 and described the times square bomber to the authority. no one can deny that islam is what drove the muslim man to say something when he saw something to the authority which led to the swift arrest of the man who did the evil.




Quran says speak the truth even if it were to be against yourself. can anyone read this and show me how muslims are supposed to be liars if speaking the truth is what liars do? is this verse not a clear indication that islam is also against evil and altakiyya? if muslim as a nation that can determine the collective rights of muslims, to include when to oppose evil, the individual or group among muslims are against the rules of Islam when they begin their mayhem, which does not spare muslims, in reality. the time square bomber was not concern that there could be muslims among the fish of people at the time while no one person in the crowd was his personal enemy.
his method as it is always the method of people doing evil was illegal from islamic point of view. boko haram is same. so is isis and others. slaughtering humans like cattle is not from islam. and these people slaughter muslims. they burn muslims to death. where is islam in any of these?



Allah says that the action of the 6 companions [RA] was illegal in many ways, definitely it was in 1 of the 4 months of the year that peace should reign around the world. even though the makkan pagans have been unjust to the muslims, Allah did not let the illegal action of the muslims go unnoticed. but when the makka pagans began to capitalize on this mistake that Allah reminded them that they were also not less unjust, but definitely much more evil because of oppression for all the 13 years of Makka and continue to do so even now that muslims ran away to Ethiopia and Madina.

true2god:
Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number
857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint
Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle
saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING
good information or saying good
things, is not a liar.”

Do you take someone that has this view as a prophet? Someone that endorsses lies in order to settle quarells? I am holding this because your prophet is expected to me a man of high moral standard which he is not.

Is the one quoted in this verse, the one you take to be your heavenly father?

And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?' "One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' 22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked. " 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.' 23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
1Kings 22:21-23

A god that exhorts lying spirits to create war and mischief, by putting lies in the mouths of 400 PROPHETS? Did you consider HIS moral standards before considering our prophet's (saw)?

You xtians should remove the beam in your two eyes first.

Or do you want a hundred more examples of your 'god (father)' and your 'god (son)' and your lesser god Paul, lying through their teeth; before you accept that there is not just a beam, but a whole FOREST in your collective xtian eyes?

Here is one or two more to chew on...

Jesus is said to have taught his disciples that: “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God; but those who are outside get every thing in parables, in order that while seeing, they may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not understand lest they return again and be forgiven” (Mark 4:11-12; see also Matthew 13:13-15).

Taqiyyah in action? Or 'kitman' as your teacher calls it?
Or was salvation reserved for the select few; intending those who 'are outside' to not be forgiven, while pretending to be a messiah for all?

What of John 7:8-10.

No, he did not go to the feast
(John 7: -"Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come."
Yes, He did go to the feast.
(John 7:10) - "But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret."

Note that some bible versions say "I do not go up to this feast YET", as a response to Porphyry, who mocked the xtians for having a 'god' who lied. Bible scholars admit that 'yet' was not in the oldest manuscripts. Even if we accept the fake interpolated 'yet', why does he go up secretly? Taqiyyah or 'Kitman'?

If you need more, I have a box full. Just say the word.

is it a lie for a spouse to not focus on the good the mate still possess instead of judging the spouse only the prevailing perceived fault? let me say if a wife who was lepa became orobo, should the husband focus on the orobo part alone when she can loose that gut by spending 15 minutes a day to exercise and burn the fat off? if my wife ask me if she is still beautiful, i better not see the big tummy alone, but the total package and sofry sofry encourage her to tone up by actually make it a family affair than find myself with a cold shoulder that may drive 1 of us to move in to the spare bedroom.

if my friends are suddenly enemies, and i am the only common friends, bringing them back together is what Jesus would have done and it is a simple recommendation of Muhammad [SA]. i will be foolish to become an enemy of one or both just that i do not bring reconciliation between them. what will be godly if i let the friendship dies off while the 2 remain enemies? what will be satanic if i bring both of them to their senses, allowing each to remember the good quality of the other, taking them both individually or together back to memory lane and end the enmity?


the best act of war is less casualty and less use of your resources. if i can use emotional tactics as the strategy of war to make my enemy surrender or not come charging in full force confident enough to think i am a cat walk, my propaganda is universally accepted even in today's art of way strategy. even america will announce to the enemy, release the person or person we want, otherwise we will come for you. and we have seen what happened; death on both sides and wealth are diverted, instead of developing the nation.

true2god:
Ifeann thanks a lot, you had indeed explained the context of the verses, quran 5:32-34, better than the way I could have, though we share 99% of the understanding of the verse. I need not explain more.

Lying is fully endorssed in Islam. See hadith below:

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

Muslim Book 032, Number 6303: Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good.

Bukhari Vol.1 Bk.7 No.1331 “The Prophet said, ‘I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before me.

1. Allah made me victorious by awe by His terrorizing my enemies.

2. The earth has been made for me.

3. Booty has been made lawful for me yet it was not lawful for anyone else before me.

4. I have been given the right of intercession.

5. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation only but I have been sent to all mankind.’”

Quran-8:1— “They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war (booty). Say: “(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe.”

Quran-8:41— “And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah and the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, – if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing, – the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things.”

At this age and time, it is almost impossible for muslims to keep up with lies and deceptions. Al-taqiyya is the 6th pillar of Islam.

Very accurate analysis.. U are very correct al Taqiyya is the de facto 6th pillar of Islam.

Ifeann:


Very accurate analysis.. U are very correct al Taqiyya is the de facto 6th pillar of Islam.

I need analysis for this also...

Abuamam:

Is the one quoted in this verse, the one you take to be your heavenly father?
And the LORD said, 'Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?' "One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the LORD and said, 'I will entice him.' 22 " 'By what means?' the LORD asked. " 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,' he said. " 'You will succeed in enticing him,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it.' 23 "So now the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The LORD has decreed disaster for you."
1Kings 22:21-23
A god that exhorts lying spirits to create war and mischief, by putting lies in the mouths of 400 PROPHETS? Did you consider HIS moral standards before considering our prophet's (saw)?
You xtians should remove the beam in your two eyes first.
Or do you want a hundred more examples of your 'god (father)' and your 'god (son)' and your lesser god Paul, lying through their teeth; before you accept that there is not just a beam, but a whole FOREST in your collective xtian eyes?
Here is one or two more to chew on...
Jesus is said to have taught his disciples that: “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God; but those who are outside get every thing in parables, in order that while seeing, they may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not understand lest they return again and be forgiven” (Mark 4:11-12; see also Matthew 13:13-15).
Taqiyyah in action? Or 'kitman' as your teacher calls it?
Or was salvation reserved for the select few; intending those who 'are outside' to not be forgiven, while pretending to be a messiah for all?
What of John 7:8-10.
No, he did not go to the feast
(John 7: -"Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come."
Yes, He did go to the feast.
(John 7:10) - "But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret."
Note that some bible versions say "I do not go up to this feast YET", as a response to Porphyry, who mocked the xtians for having a 'god' who lied. Bible scholars admit that 'yet' was not in the oldest manuscripts. Even if we accept the fake interpolated 'yet', why does he go up secretly? Taqiyyah or 'Kitman'?
If you need more, I have a box full. Just say the word.

crying al taqiyya is now their easiest means of escape whenever their foolish and deceitful 'attacks' on Islam is being trashed

Abuamam:


I need analysis for this also...

For the old testament, go ask an old testament Jew for explanations. I have explained lots of time and yet u guys fail to appreciate my effort. I don't live by the law, I am not a 4000year old Jew. I am a Christian.

But u quoted this

1.(John 7: -"Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come."
2.Yes, He did go to the feast.
1.(John 7:10) - "But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret."

As with many alleged Bible contradictions, when the context is examined the answer becomes clear. John 7 starts off with Jesus walking in Galilee. His brothers said in verses 3-4, "Depart from here, and go into Judea, that Your disciples also may behold Your works which You are doing. 4For no one does anything in secret, when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world." We see that Jesus' brothers wanted Him to go into Judea publicly, but they did not believe who He was, "For not even His brothers were believing in Him," (v. 5). Jesus responded by telling them to go up themselves because His time had not yet come. The statement "His time had not yet come" refers to both Jesus revealing Himself to the world as well as the time of his death which the Pharisees would later arrange. He sent His brothers on their way. Then in verse 9 it says that Jesus stayed in Galilee. We do not know how long He stayed there but it is evident that Jesus did so for a while and then decided to go up to Judea in secret. "But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret."
So we see in verse 8 that Jesus meant he was not going up to the feast "right then and there." Jesus stayed for a time in Galilee and later went up to Judea. There is no problem.

Ifeann:


For the old testament, go ask an old testament Jew for explanations. I have explained lots of time and yet u guys fail to appreciate my effort. I don't live by the law, I am not a 4000year old Jew. I am a Christian.

But u quoted this

1.(John 7: -"Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come."
2.Yes, He did go to the feast.
1.(John 7:10) - "But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret."

As with many alleged Bible contradictions, when the context is examined the answer becomes clear. John 7 starts off with Jesus walking in Galilee. His brothers said in verses 3-4, "Depart from here, and go into Judea, that Your disciples also may behold Your works which You are doing. 4For no one does anything in secret, when he himself seeks to be known publicly. If You do these things, show Yourself to the world." We see that Jesus' brothers wanted Him to go into Judea publicly, but they did not believe who He was, "For not even His brothers were believing in Him," (v. 5). Jesus responded by telling them to go up themselves because His time had not yet come. The statement "His time had not yet come" refers to both Jesus revealing Himself to the world as well as the time of his death which the Pharisees would later arrange. He sent His brothers on their way. Then in verse 9 it says that Jesus stayed in Galilee. We do not know how long He stayed there but it is evident that Jesus did so for a while and then decided to go up to Judea in secret. "But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret."
So we see in verse 8 that Jesus meant he was not going up to the feast "right then and there." Jesus stayed for a time in Galilee and later went up to Judea. There is no problem.

1. You state that he stayed in Galillee 'for sometime' yet it was the very same feast he still went for. What is the duration of this feast please, that you are trying to imply that he stayed in Galilee sufficiently to justify the yet?
This point is academic in any case, because all these versions omit the word 'yet'. This implies that Jesus is not going to the feast AT ALL.

Bible > John > Chapter 7 > Verse 8

◄ John 7:8 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come."

New Living Translation
You go on. I'm not going to this festival, because my time has not yet come."

English Standard Version
You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”

New American Standard Bible
"Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come."

NET Bible
You go up to the feast yourselves. I am not going up to this feast because my time has not yet fully arrived."

American Standard Version
Go ye up unto the feast: I go not up unto this feast; because my time is not yet fulfilled.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Go you up to this festival day, but I go not up to this festival day: because my time is not accomplished.

Darby Bible Translation
Ye, go ye up to this feast. I go not up to this feast, for *my* time is not yet fulfilled.

Are all of these versions the word of God or not? If not, does this mean that the word of God has been corrupted in these versions? Or does it mean there was no corruption as you and your cohort have always maintained, and Jesus lied?

2. You claim you are not a jew, and you do not live by the law; I am least interested in that. I am interested in whether you believe the OT is God's word as revealed by the trinity or not?
I do not ask you about the laws which you claim not to live by. I pointed out a simple narration in which your trinity sent a 'lying spirit' to 400 prophets. Is this the same trinity you believe in or no.


Take your time. Do not rush to answer.

Abuamam:


1. You state that he stayed in Galillee 'for sometime' yet it was the very same feast he still went for. What is the duration of this feast please, that you are trying to imply that he stayed in Galilee sufficiently to justify the yet?
This point is academic in any case, because all these versions omit the word 'yet'. This implies that Jesus is not going to the feast AT ALL.

Bible > John > Chapter 7 > Verse 8

◄ John 7:8 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come."

New Living Translation
You go on. I'm not going to this festival, because my time has not yet come."

English Standard Version
You go up to the feast. I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”

New American Standard Bible
"Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come."

NET Bible
You go up to the feast yourselves. I am not going up to this feast because my time has not yet fully arrived."

American Standard Version
Go ye up unto the feast: I go not up unto this feast; because my time is not yet fulfilled.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Go you up to this festival day, but I go not up to this festival day: because my time is not accomplished.

Darby Bible Translation
Ye, go ye up to this feast. I go not up to this feast, for *my* time is not yet fulfilled.

Are all of these versions the word of God or not? If not, does this mean that the word of God has been corrupted in these versions? Or does it mean there was no corruption as you and your cohort have always maintained, and Jesus lied?

2. You claim you are not a jew, and you do not live by the law; I am least interested in that. I am interested in whether you believe the OT is God's word as revealed by the trinity or not?
I do not ask you about the laws which you claim not to live by. I pointed out a simple narration in which your trinity sent a 'lying spirit' to 400 prophets. Is this the same trinity you believe in or no.


Take your time. Do not rush to answer.

I have given u explanations for the quoted verse. It is left to u to decide if u see the truth of it or not.
What amuses me is that u are making all this effort to justify the clear permission to lie and deceive as advocated by Mohammed and his quran.

I advise that u create a topic on it and bring this up so that other Christians may better explain it to you.

Ifeann:


I have given u explanations for the quoted verse. It is left to u to decide if u see the truth of it or not.
What amuses me is that u are making all this effort to justify the clear permission to lie and deceive as advocated by Mohammed and his quran.

I advise that u create a topic on it and bring this up so that other Christians may better explain it to you.

You have not answered any of my simple questions.

1. Are the different versions that do not say 'yet' in John 7:8 corrupt or no?
2. If no, then why did Jesus say he will not go to the feast then went. Did he lie?
3. Was it not the trinity that asked 400 prophets, telling them to lie; in 1Kings 22:21-23?
4. Did Paul not say that he not be called a sinner if he lied to the greater glory of his god? Romans 1:7 and Phillippians 1:15-18

Address my 4 questions and I will address yours. Stop hiding behind your escapist remarks and silly innuendos. These are straight questions that demand straight answers.

The premise is that a believer in a god that lied to 400 prophets, allowed his 'son' to lie to his brethren; and inspired his disciple to lie to his greater glory, should not be so hypocritical as to open dozens of threads chanting taqiyyah.

Remove the beam in your eye before you remove the mote in mine.
I wait for your answers to the 4 questions.

Abuamam:


You have not answered any of my simple questions.

1. Are the different versions that do not say 'yet' in John 7:8 corrupt or no?
2. If no, then why did Jesus say he will not go to the feast then went. Did he lie?
3. Was it not the trinity that asked 400 prophets, telling them to lie; in 1Kings 22:21-23?
4. Did Paul not say that he not be called a sinner if he lied to the greater glory of his god? Romans 1:7 and Phillippians 1:15-18

Address my 4 questions and I will address yours. Stop hiding behind your escapist remarks and silly innuendos. These are straight questions that demand straight answers.

The premise is that a believer in a god that lied to 400 prophets, allowed his 'son' to lie to his brethren; and inspired his disciple to lie to his greater glory, should not be so hypocritical as to open dozens of threads chanting taqiyyah.

Remove the beam in your eye before you remove the mote in mine.
I wait for your answers to the 4 questions.

the reason why Jesus went to the festival secretly is because the pherasses are looking for a way to killed him, if Jesus went openly the crowds would sing hossana to him, they would praised him just as they did during his crucifixion;
John7: 12" Among the crowds there was
widespread whispering about him. Some said, “He is a good man.”

So you see, the crowd are waiting for his arrival, this will gives the religious leader enough reason to crucified him, but his time has not yet come,that why he went unnoticed. Infacte in verse 29 and 30 when his present is being notice, Jesus told them that he was from God;

John7: 29-30
but I know him because I AM FROM HIM and he sent me.”
30 At this they tried to seize him, but no
one laid a hand on him, because his
hour had not YET COME.
If Jesus had went openly the crowd would praised him as there king, do you think herod would find this pleasing? No.read what the pherasses say here:

John7: 32 The Pharisees heard the crowd whispering such things about him. Then the chief priests and the Pharisees sent temple guards to arrest him.

Why? Because only their king deserve this praised, but the crowd praised Jesus even more.

Jesus has not been glorified yet so his time has not come;
John7:37-39
37 On the last and greatest day of the
festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud
voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to
me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in
me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living
water will flow from within them.”[ c] 39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those
who believed in him were later to
receive. Up to that time the Spirit had
not been given, SINCE JESUS HAD NOT YET BEEN GLORIFIED.

In 1kings 22 it was the lying spirit that come fort to deceive ahab by dwellings in his false prophet, God don't dwell in a false prophet.God allow the spirit to lie to ahab.

This is what Romans 1:7 is saying
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Soo what your point?
Philippians 1:15-18
Some indeed preach Christ from envy
and rivalry, but others from good will.
The latter do it out of love, knowing
that I am put here for the defense of
the gospel. The former proclaim
Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but
thinking to afflict me in my
imprisonment. What then? Only that
in every way, whether in pretense or
in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in
that I rejoice.

Abuman,have you ever hered the saying"do what I say but don't do what I do?" that what Paul is saying here, infacte Jesus say something similar to this , when he say to his disciples "he who is not against me is for me" a sinner can preach the word of God, the good thing about this is that the gospel has been preach, so the in a real sense , what Paul is saying here is this;

Value the truth of the gospel even more highly than you value the attitudes of those who preach it.

vedaxcool:
Recently a certain career liar whose behavior can best be describe as a decent into savage greed and willful dishonesty posted a thread on Islam and labelled tarqiyyah its most powerful weapon, but Islam has no need for weapons, Truth is Islam, Truth is what Islam preaches.
The truthfulness associated with the Holy Prophet Muhammad Pbuh made people during his life time call him the trustworthy. So the Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was acknowledged by those who lived during his life time as being one who is truthful and did not promote deceit or dishonesty.

What Does Islam Preaches? Islam preaches submission to Allah by obeying all his command, being righteous, truthful, just, etc.

What is Tarqiyyah? Tarqiyyah translates as Dissimulation of Faith, it is the permitted only in a situation where once fears for his life like Peter the apostle of Jesus christ did when he feared for his life,

Peter Denies Jesus

54 Then they seized him and led him away, bringing him into the high priest's house, and Peter was following at a distance. 55 And when they had kindled a fire in the middle of the courtyard and sat down together, Peter sat down among them. 56 Then a servant girl, seeing him as he sat in the light and looking closely at him, said, “This man also was with him.” 57 But he denied it, saying, “Woman, I do not know him.” 58 And a little later someone else saw him and said, “Y[b]ou also are one of them.” But Peter said, “Man, I am not.” [/b]59 And after an interval of about an hour still another insisted, saying, “Certainly this man also was with him, for he too is a Galilean.” 60 But Peter said, “Man, I do not know what you are talking about.” And immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. And Peter remembered the saying of the Lord, how he had said to him, “Before the rooster crows today, you will deny me three times.” 62 And he went out and wept bitterly. Luke 25:54

as we can see Peter did what he had to because feared for his life, so under similar circumstance, a Muslim is allowed to renounce his faith if he fears his life.

Jesus Practiced Tarqiyyah? With all sense of respect and reverence, the bibles suggest this, as Jesus was dressed as a gardner after his alleged crucifixion,
[i]
He asked her, "Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?" Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him." [/i]John 20:15


Again we see for safety reasons Jesus disguised himself to be a Gardner so as not to be recognized. what does that Mean? Tarqiyyah, if Tarqiyyah is such an evil thing we wouldn't see Jesus himself practice or Peter do it.

Islam unlike Christianity gains nothing from the death of people or its followers Allah is not pleased by the deaths of good people, Tarqiyyah is permitted because Islam places a huge importance on the lives of the humanity, that is why we read in the Qurán; Al- Quran 5:32

“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people"


But the career liar didn't stop at lies but resort to distorting the verses of the Qurán and hadith to make his lies believable, he cited various verses without giving actual quotes;
unlike our dishonest career liar we shall give you full quotes of verses for you to judge for yourself

16:106: Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;

Nowhere did the verses promoted deceit or lies, or tarqiyyah, it said clearly except you are forced to convert, but career liar wouldn't even let you make up your minds

3:28 Let not believers take disbelievers as allies rather than believers. And whoever [of you] does that has nothing with Allah , except when taking precaution against them in prudence. And Allah warns you of Himself, and to Allah is the [final] destination.

Where does the above verse speak of tarqiyyah, rather it warns of the danger of taking the pagan meccans for allies rather than your fellow muslims.

9:3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away - then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.

Our career liar resorted to alluding to things that where never said stated, no mention of tarqiyyah occurs here in fact 9:4 speaks of the importance of holding unto treaty signed with the pagan meccans.

We have been able to establish that falsehood has been the driving force behind the slander about Islam and tarqiyyah, but you owe it to yourself to read the Qurán for yourself rather than help self appointed interpreters who should better be called pervertors of the words written in the Qurán, www.quran.com

But not finished the career Liar went on to distort sayings in the hadith,

Bukhari (52:269): War is deciet We advice the career liar to do a research on how wars are fought and won, the CIA uses deciet, Mossad does the same, unfortuntely for him we read a lot of deceit same in the bible:

15- Thou shalt not LIE, but yet, GOD Almighty supposedly detailed for Samuel how to trick & tell HALF TRUTH to Saul:

1 Samuel 16:1-13
1 The LORD said to Samuel, "How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way; I am sending you to Jesse of Bethlehem. I have chosen one of his sons to be king."
2 But Samuel said, "How can I go? Saul will hear about it and kill me." The LORD said, "Take a heifer with you and say, 'I have come to sacrifice to the LORD.'
3 Invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you what to do. You are to anoint for me the one I indicate."
Roman 1:7 But if the truth of God through m[b]y lie abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?
[/b]
Philippians 1:15-18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

The rest of what he wrote are no better than some unstable individual ranting on Fox news!

you quoted the betrayal of peter to supports your lies.it was satan that enter peter.
Luke 22:31
31 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat.
Infacte satan ask for permission before doing this.the prophecy must be fullfiled however Jesus assured peter;
Luke 22:32
32 but I have prayed for you(peter) that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your
brothers.”

You don't know what Paul is saying,
Paul is saying ;
Value the truth of the gospel even more
highly than you value the attitudes of
those who preach it.

malvisguy212:
the reason why Jesus went to the festival secretly is because the pherasses are looking for a way to killed him, if Jesus went openly the crowds would sing hossana to him, they would praised him just as they did during his crucifixion;
John7: 12" Among the crowds there was
widespread whispering about him. Some said, “He is a good man.”

So you see, the crowd are waiting for his arrival, this will gives the religious leader enough reason to crucified him, but his time has not yet come,that why he went unnoticed. Infacte in verse 29 and 30 when his present is being notice, Jesus told them that he was from God;

John7: 29-30
but I know him because I AM FROM HIM and he sent me.”
30 At this they tried to seize him, but no
one laid a hand on him, because his
hour had not YET COME.
If Jesus had went openly the crowd would praised him as there king, do you think herod would find this pleasing? No.read what the pherasses say here:

John7: 32 The Pharisees heard the crowd whispering such things about him. Then the chief priests and the Pharisees sent temple guards to arrest him.

Why? Because only their king deserve this praised, but the crowd praised Jesus even more.

Jesus has not been glorified yet so his time has not come;
John7:37-39
37 On the last and greatest day of the
festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud
voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to
me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in
me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living
water will flow from within them.”[ c] 39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those
who believed in him were later to
receive. Up to that time the Spirit had
not been given, SINCE JESUS HAD NOT YET BEEN GLORIFIED.

You guys are masters of nonsense dissimulation. I dont know how anybody can connect all this long ranting to whether Jesus said he will not go, but went; or not. Whether the versions that said he will not go; without giving a time frame; ie implying that HE IS NOT GOING; are corrupted versions or not. Which one be glorified in capitals and sanctified in Chinese?

malvisguy212:

In 1kings 22 it was the lying spirit that come fort to deceive ahab by dwellings in his false prophet, God don't dwell in a false prophet.God allow the spirit to lie to ahab.

I agree it was the lying spirit. This does not explain the fact that the trinity TOLD the lying spirit to lie. Or was the verse interpolated? Or is the 'Lord' referred to as the one who commanded the lying spirit to go lie, not the trinity? Here is the verse again...

19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’

“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’

22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.

“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.

“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘GO AND DO IT.’

23 “So now the LORD HAS PUT A DECIEVING SPIRIT in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”

malvisguy212:

This is what Romans 1:7 is saying
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Soo what your point?

That will be Romans 3:7.

English Standard Version
But if through MY LIE, God’s truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

New American Standard Bible
But if through MY LIE the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner?

King James Bible
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through MY LIE unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But if by MY LIE God's truth is amplified to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

International Standard Version
For if through MY FALSEHOOD God's truthfulness glorifies him even more, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

NET Bible
For if by MY LIE the truth of God enhances his glory, why am I still actually being judged as a sinner?

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For if the truth of God is made to superabound for his glory by MY LIES, why therefore am I judged as a sinner?

GOD'S WORD® Translation
If MY LIE increases the glory that God receives by showing that God is truthful, why am I still judged as a sinner?

Jubilee Bible 2000
For if the truth of God has more abounded through MY LIE unto his glory, why even so am I also judged as a sinner?

King James 2000 Bible
For if the truth of God has more abounded through MY LIE unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

American King James Version
For if the truth of God has more abounded through MY LIE to his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

American Standard Version
But if the truth of God through MY LIE abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

Douay-Rheims Bible
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through MY LIE unto his glory, why am I also yet judged as a sinner?

Darby Bible Translation
For if the truth of God, in MY LIE has more abounded to his glory, why yet am *I* also judged as a sinner?

English Revised Version
But if the truth of God through MY LIE abounded unto his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

Webster's Bible Translation
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through MY LIE to his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

Weymouth New Testament
If, for instance, A FALSEHOOD OF MINE has made God's truthfulness more conspicuous, redounding to His glory, why am I judged all the same as a sinner?

World English Bible
For if the truth of God through MY LIE abounded to his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner?

Young's Literal Translation
for if the truth of God in MY FALSEHOOD did more abound to His glory, why yet am I also as a sinner judged?

Pick the version you like. They all show how the inspired Paul lies to the glory of his god, then feels surprised that he is judged a sinner.

In fact, Paul lies consistently about his vision on the way to Damascus, his relations with the other disciples and to authority whenever he is caught. In fact, he lies so chronically that he has to resort to oaths that he is not lying, just to get people to believe him... (ref: Galatians 1:19)

malvisguy212:

Philippians 1:15-18
Some indeed preach Christ from envy
and rivalry, but others from good will.
The latter do it out of love, knowing
that I am put here for the defense of
the gospel. The former proclaim
Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but
thinking to afflict me in my
imprisonment. What then? Only that
in every way, whether in pretense or
in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in
that I rejoice.

If a Holy Spirit filled Paul admits that he rejoices when Christ is proclaimed whether IN PRETENCE or otherwise, then why are Muslims made out to be the ones that use taqiyyah to preach?

Abuamam
In chronicle 18 God had warn ahab and prophesied his death if he continue his evil, and in 1king22 God fullfiled his promise,if Ahab wanted to repent he would have fear God and repent but he dint, God permit the lying spirit because ahab chose evil instead of good.

Jesus don't want to go openly because his time had not yet come, I don't expect a muslim to understand the nature of God, how God relates to his children.

Romans 3:7 was a question, can you quote the lie Paul tell? This is what Paul is saying in Romans 3:7, that if God is glorified through the sins of men, how did God is glorified throw sins of men? For every miracle that is performed on a sinner or witches, God is glorified here, Paul is a sinner, and he speak as a sinful man, infacte here what Paul say in verse 5;

Romans3:5
But if OUR unrighteousness serves to
show the righteousness of God, what
shall we say? That God is unrighteous to
inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human
way.)

Paul speak as a human here, the word" OUR" include his(Paul) unrighteousness and verse 4 say every man is a liar, the main point of this teaching is this, PAUL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS GLORIFIED GOD how?
Roman3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every
human being a liar. As it is written: "So
that you may be proved right when you
speak and prevail when you judge."

meaning without the lies of men God TRUTH cannot be Established, can truth exist without lie?

I repeat, This is what what Paul mean in philipphians Paul is saying ;
Value the truth of the gospel even more
highly than you value the attitudes of
those who preach it. This is different from taqiyyah, the op say taqiyyah is all about fear. So don't justified taqiyyah with what Paul is saying here.

As truthman say, why the complained about Paul? Did Allah not know that Paul is an important figure in Christianity? Why did he silent over Paul? Paul preach 100 of years before muhammed yet the quran made no mention of him, why?

malvisguy212:
the reason why Jesus went to the festival secretly is because the pherasses are looking for a way to killed him,

@bold suggests that Jesus(SA) had enemies. But your brother in falsehood, who supposedly called himself true2god lied that Jesus had no enemies. He said it to pitch our noble prophet Muhammad(SAW).

[quote author=true2god post=32720998]Don't get it twisted, there is no record that Jesus made enemy of anyone,

Despite obvious evidences from your so called holy book. Roypcain can attest to this. Here is the link

https://www.nairaland.com/2251469/jesus-son-man-read/2#32721956

You guys are chiefs of 'at-taqqiyah'. You say one thing here. You say something else on another thread. That's the game you people play

Bukhari 5.59.369:
Narrated Jabir bin ‘Abdullah: Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). “The Prophet said, “You may say it.” Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, “That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you.” On that, Kab said, “By Allah, you will get tired of him!” Muhammad bin Maslama said, “Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. Now we want you to lend us a camel load or two of food.” (Some difference between narrators about a camel load or two.) Kab said, “Yes, (I will lend you), but you should mortgage something to me.” Muhammad bin Mas-lama and his companion said, “What do you want?” Ka’b replied, “Mortgage your women to me.” They said, “How can we mortgage our women to you and you are the most handsome of the ‘Arabs?” Ka’b said, “Then mortgage your sons to me.” They said, “How can we mortgage our sons to you? Later they would be abused by the people’s saying that so-and-so has been mortgaged for a camel load of food. That would cause us great disgrace, but we will mortgage our arms to you.” Muhammad bin Maslama and his companion promised Kab that Muhammad would return to him. He came to Kab at night along with Kab’s foster brother, Abu Na’ila. Kab invited them to come into his fort, and then he went down to them. His wife asked him, “Where are you going at this time?” Kab replied, “None but Muhammad bin Maslama and my (foster) brother Abu Na’ila have come.” His wife said, “I hear a voice as if dropping blood is from him, Ka’b said. “They are none but my brother Muhammad bin Maslama and my foster brother Abu Naila. A generous man should respond to a call at night even if invited to be killed.” Muhammad bin Maslama went with two men. (Some narrators mention the men as ‘Abu bin Jabr. Al Harith bin Aus and Abbad bin Bishr). So Muhammad bin Maslama went in together with two men, and sail to them, “When Ka’b comes, I will touch his hair and smell it, and when you see that I have got hold of his head, strip him. I will let you smell his head.” Kab bin Al-Ashraf came down to them wrapped in his clothes, and diffusing perfume. Muhammad bin Maslama said. “ have never smelt a better scent than this. Ka’b replied. “I have got the best ‘Arab women who know how to use the high class of perfume.” Muhammad bin Maslama requested Ka’b “Will you allow me to smell your head?” Ka’b said, “Yes.” Muhammad smelt it and made his companions smell it as well. Then he requested Ka’b again, “Will you let me (smell your head)?” Ka’b said, “Yes.” When Muhammad got a strong hold of him, he said (to his companions), “Get at him!” So they killed him and went to the Prophet and informed him. (Abu Rafi) was killed after Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf.”

The prophet allowed his companions to lie in order to murder a poet who had composed some verses that he ( or was it allah?) did not like

malvisguy212:
Abuamam
In chronicle 18 God had warn ahab and prophesied his death if he continue his evil, and in 1king22 God fullfiled his promise,if Ahab wanted to repent he would have fear God and repent but he dint, God permit the lying spirit because ahab chose evil instead of good.

Jesus don't want to go openly because his time had not yet come, I don't expect a muslim to understand the nature of God, how God relates to his children.

Romans 3:7 was a question, can you quote the lie Paul tell? This is what Paul is saying in Romans 3:7, that if God is glorified through the sins of men, how did God is glorified throw sins of men? For every miracle that is performed on a sinner or witches, God is glorified here, Paul is a sinner, and he speak as a sinful man, infacte here what Paul say in verse 5;

Romans3:5
But if OUR unrighteousness serves to
show the righteousness of God, what
shall we say? That God is unrighteous to
inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human
way.)

Paul speak as a human here, the word" OUR" include his(Paul) unrighteousness and verse 4 say every man is a liar, the main point of this teaching is this, PAUL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS GLORIFIED GOD how?
Roman3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every
human being a liar. As it is written: "So
that you may be proved right when you
speak and prevail when you judge."

meaning without the lies of men God TRUTH cannot be Established, can truth exist without lie?

I repeat, This is what what Paul mean in philipphians Paul is saying ;
Value the truth of the gospel even more
highly than you value the attitudes of
those who preach it. This is different from taqiyyah, the op say taqiyyah is all about fear. So don't justified taqiyyah with what Paul is saying here.

As truthman say, why the complained about Paul? Did Allah not know that Paul is an important figure in Christianity? Why did he silent over Paul? Paul preach 100 of years before muhammed yet the quran made no mention of him, why?

Lol. I think the illogic of your position is clear enough now.

More from the Quran.

Quran 3:54 Surat 'Āli `Imrān

Sahih International
And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners.

Quran 16:106 Surat An-Naĥl

Sahih International
Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;

malvisguy212:
Abuamam
In chronicle 18 God had warn ahab and prophesied his death if he continue his evil, and in 1king22 God fullfiled his promise,if Ahab wanted to repent he would have fear God and repent but he dint, God permit the lying spirit because ahab chose evil instead of good.

Jesus don't want to go openly because his time had not yet come, I don't expect a muslim to understand the nature of God, how God relates to his children.

Romans 3:7 was a question, can you quote the lie Paul tell? This is what Paul is saying in Romans 3:7, that if God is glorified through the sins of men, how did God is glorified throw sins of men? For every miracle that is performed on a sinner or witches, God is glorified here, Paul is a sinner, and he speak as a sinful man, infacte here what Paul say in verse 5;

Romans3:5
But if OUR unrighteousness serves to
show the righteousness of God, what
shall we say? That God is unrighteous to
inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human
way.)

Paul speak as a human here, the word" OUR" include his(Paul) unrighteousness and verse 4 say every man is a liar, the main point of this teaching is this, PAUL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS GLORIFIED GOD how?
Roman3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every
human being a liar. As it is written: "So
that you may be proved right when you
speak and prevail when you judge."

meaning without the lies of men God TRUTH cannot be Established, can truth exist without lie?

I repeat, This is what what Paul mean in philipphians Paul is saying ;
Value the truth of the gospel even more
highly than you value the attitudes of
those who preach it. This is different from taqiyyah, the op say taqiyyah is all about fear. So don't justified taqiyyah with what Paul is saying here.

As truthman say, why the complained about Paul? Did Allah not know that Paul is an important figure in Christianity? Why did he silent over Paul? Paul preach 100 of years before muhammed yet the quran made no mention of him, why?

Lol. I think the illogic of your position is clear enough now.

The trinity ENCOURAGED/ INCITED/ COMMANDED (not allowed) the lying spirit because they had warned Ahab before; good excuse?

Jesus didn't want to go openly for reasons that Muslims cannot understand, therefore he lied to his brethren that he was not going; good excuse?

Paul is a LIAR. He spoke as a lying man here; notwithstanding his other sins. He did not want people to judge him because he thought that his lies exalted the trinity. Lies nevertheless. I am happy that you have at least admitted that the xtian god cannot be established without men's lies. Now you have confirmed what Muslims have said for 14 centuries. There is hope for you yet.