RoyPCain:
@malvisguy212; read each of the verses and reflect on each about when it was said, who said it, etc prior to event of crucifixion or crucifiction.

there is no verse that remotely could be assumed is from Jesus except where it was being said this is my blood. and this verse and the other like it seemed to have been written after the fact has been established assuming that he was killed.

will be shed is a future event. but shed for you is past and it does not make sense to then be putting cup full of wine to symbolize blood already shed.

but on the pages of the bible we can read 'he cried to the One Who could save him and he was heard [his request was accepted as when he made a request about Lazarus].

EzioAuditore:
If Jesus died for our sins, only to come back again to save mankind, did he really save us in the first place? Heck! Did he really die in the first place?

malvisguy212:
Jesus came to save mankind?from what? Jesus will come as a righteous judge.

EzioAuditore:



Did he not already die for our sins? Chill, what does he want again? What's the point of dying for people's sins only to come back alive again? How can someone in his right mind believe this fraud?

malvisguy212:
Jesus died and was ressurected and liveth forever more Amen.

EzioAuditore:


What's the point of him dying (for our sins), only to get resurrected? Do you have any idea how barmy this sound?

malvisguy212:
dead in sin and alive in christ. Good day.

malvisguy212:
Jesus told some Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye
will do.... He that is of God heareth
God's words: ye therefore hear them
not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:44, 47). And later still, He told them plainly, "Ye are not of MY SHEEP" (John 10:26).

In Matthew 25:32-33, Jesus said He
would separate the nations "as a
shepherd divideth his sheep from the
goats." Those who are of the sheep
inherited the Kingdom, but the goats
were not allowed into the kingdom.
With all of this information, will we
conclude that those who are "goats"
and "not of God" but who are "from
the Devil," have salvation, when
Christ so clearly excluded them? The
answer is, "NO." So will we then
conclude that Christ did not die for
the "goats", but only for "His sheep"?
The answer is, "NO."
You see, Christ died for both the goats
and the sheep. That is the gift he
offers to all men, to the world. He
offers everybody salvation. But not
everybody has salvation. Only those
who accept His gift will become "His
sheep," and only His sheep will have
salvation.if you chose to reject the free gift of God, is your choice.

An2elect2:
So Jesus didn't die for the sin of unbelief/rejection of Him?

sportsmaster:

that is the only sin that cannot be forgiven.
Read matt12.
Ensure you read line upon line precept upon precept.
Then refer to John 14 and John 16.
Place this scriptures side by side.
you will find the work of the Holy Ghost he referred to in Matt12:31.
If you have e-sword.check the meaning of the word "blasphemy " used in Matt12:31

lemme hint you sha.
The work of the Holy Ghost is to convince/convict the sinner to believe the Gospel.
Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost will mean to refuse/reject/despise the Gospel.
That is the only Sin that cannot be forgiven.
unbelief towards the Gospel of Christ.
I wish my bible was beside me.
SELAH

An2elect2:


Jesus did not die for this sin?

An2elect2:
So Jesus didn't die for the sin of unbelief/rejection of Him?

Ubenedictus:
I think this is another old topic and I believe you have a good handle on ir.

Jesus died for all men, but only some will accept salvation an be saved.

malvisguy212:
1 Timothy 4:10, "For therefore we
both labour and suffer reproach,
because we trust in the living
God, who is the Saviour of all
men, specially of those that
believe."

You see, salvation is conditional. Christ died for all men, but not all believe and accept His gift of salvation. Therefore, this answers the dilemma of how Christ died for all men and for his people at the same time! Yes, he died for all men, and salvation is a gift offered to all men,
but only those who choose Christ will have salvation.

An2elect2:


John
1:12-13 King
James
Version (KJV)
But as
many as
received him,
to them gave
he power to
become the
sons of God,
even to them
that believe
on his name:
Which
were born,
not of blood,
nor of the will
of the flesh,
nor of the will
of man, but of
God.

Notice those who received Christ were those birthed not by the will or choice of any man but OF GOD.

Men whose choices are continuously evil can choose to do good? , "perfect good", "godly good", such as believing in the Son of God? like seriously??

Jeremiah 13:23;
King James Bible

Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the
leopard his spots? then may ye also do good,
that are accustomed to do evil.

Is belief not a product of faith? yes, and it comes from somewhere which is not anywhere in man.


you say??

malvisguy212:
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he
gave the right to become children
of God— children born not of
natural descent, nor of human
decision or a husband’s will, but
born of God. – John 1:12-13 (NIV)

Gift is free,you don't work for it because it's a gift, that how salvation is, is a gift to ALL men but not all received it. and the bible say in John 3:16 that Jesus is a gift to the world,

malvisguy212:

we must work to become what we
already are. When we place our faith in
Christ, we are declared righteous by God. It is a legal declaration that has
nothing to do with our actual character. If an angry alcoholic and a pre-school
teacher place faith in Christ at the same
time, they are both equally righteous in
God’s sight, because God declares them
to be righteous. But, both the alcoholic and the pre- school teacher must work to become what God has already declared them to be.

An2elect2:


Well you using NIV to get another interpretation of the verses against the KJV, even when the KJV is more accurate...and reliable. The scripture says those who received Christ were born of the Spirit. They received Christ because they were born again. I should ignore this and settle for NIV "wrong interpretation" hehehe epic



Okay, Where does faith unto salvation and righteousness come from? How come one believes and the other does not (for example)?

malvisguy212:
I don't use the king James version because the version was translated 400 years ago during the England medieval . Use of this translation
is problematic these days, since it uses
an archaic version of modern English,
which doesn't necessarily mean the same
things today as when it was translated
over 400 years ago. In addition, the KJV
was produced using a limited number of
medieval manuscripts that did not
represent the earliest Alexandrian set of
manuscripts.


Salvation ,faith and righteousness are different topics.

An2elect2:


Well you using NIV to get another interpretation of the verses against the KJV, even when the KJV is more accurate...and reliable. The scripture says those who received Christ were born of the Spirit. They received Christ because they were born again. I should ignore this and settle for NIV "wrong interpretation" hehehe epic



Okay, Where does faith unto salvation and righteousness come from? How come one believes and the other does not (for example)?

Ubenedictus:


hehehe,

since when did King Jame become the most accurate translation?

I do have a KJV bible but I still don't get the way the new set of churches are turning it into some kind of best bible.

It still hardly maters what version u both are using, they both say the same thing. Salvation is a Gift received by faith

An2elect2:


We are not saying the same thing sir.

He is saying Christ died for every human being, and now it is left for them to accept or reject Him and His finished work. In other words God has made salvation available for every man and only those with some self produced faith can choose to believe and be saved while the rest can keep tasking themselves until they can manufacture enough faith to believe. He and others may not have said it exactly like this but this is what they are saying.

I am saying that Christ died not for every man because if he did all men will be saved for salvation was bought by His blood through death for all those chosen in Him.
Acts20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to
all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost
hath made you overseers, to feed the church
of God, which he hath purchased with his own
blood.

There are so many scriptures that talk about God's chosen people and our redemption secured through the eternal sacrifice of God and not our wills. To say otherwise is to handle God's word ignorantly or treacherously.

It is mutually exclusive to believe and teach that God has a peculiar chosen people for salvation and at the same time believe and teach he wants everybody saved. Not possible!

No matter how hard men try to hide the doctrine of election, it cannot be hidden. It was expressly taught in the scriptures. If there was election then everybody is not going to be saved. Election means selection, making a choice. And this choice is made by no man or their deeds but God. Believe what you may that is what it is.

Romans 9:11-16 King James Version
(KJV)
(For the children being not yet born,
neither having done any good or evil, that
the purpose of God according to election
might stand, not of works, but of him that
calleth
It was said unto her, The elder shall
serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but
Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? Is there
unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy
on whom I will have mercy, and I will have
compassion on whom I will have
compassion.
[bSo then it is not of him that willeth, nor
of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth
mercy.[/b]

We who are believers know men do not produce the faith that is wrought in our hearts unto salvation
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing
by the word of God.

Ubenedictus:


this is YOUR interpretation of what they said not what they said. The bolded words have only been used by you.

it seems you are cherrypicking scriptures. Sorry to say but the death of Christ was a covenantal death, you have to accept a covenant if not you are not part of it.
You have a wierd idea of salvation. It reeks Calvin.


go back and check your bible
the bible actually says
"God wish all men to be saved" it is possible becos d bible says so.



hehehe,
the election you teach does not come from scriptures it comes from Calvin.

Secondly faith itself is also not a human doing, it is a gift, a grace.

An2elect2:


Romans 9:11-16 King James Version
(KJV)
(For the children being not yet born,
neither having done any good or evil, that
the purpose of God according to election
might stand, not of works, but of him that
calleth
It was said unto her, The elder shall
serve the younger.
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but
Esau have I hated.
What shall we say then? Is there
unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy
on whom I will have mercy, and I will have
compassion on whom I will have
compassion.
[bSo then it is not of him that willeth, nor
of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth
mercy.[/b]

We who are believers know men do not produce the faith that is wrought in our hearts unto salvation
Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing
by the word of God.