ApexTitan:


You couldn't be any more wrong than that. It is either you are joking or that you are completely oblivious to the environment you find yourself in.

Feminism in reality is the more visible and vocal embodiment of the what can be best described as the female imperative, that drive to influence the behaviour of society in a way that furthers the exclusive interests of women. This imperative has always been with society (virtually all societies) from early times and had been put in check by societal structures established by culture and tradition.

It was only during the middle of the 20th century that conditions brought about by modernisation were seized by this imperative and feminism as we know it was birthed. This is why I referred to it as one of the effects of modern liberalism on the first page. It is not only a clear and present danger, it is everywhere.

What you claim to be feminism, is clearly not. Instead, society is taking steps to liberate and protect women, because they are the weak and vulnerable sex. Since men have used their natural dominance to oppress and suppress, it became imperative to protect women, and if possible empower them to defend themselves. That isnt feminism, it is fairness.

dicefrost:


I
Has gender equality been achieved? Has feminist ideas been fully integrated in our society? I guess not. Granted, there is a level playing field for both gender now, but the male dominance and gender roles are still very prominent. How many women are in the National assembly compared to men? How many female professors are in Nigeria compared to the males? How many female generals do we have in the army? How many CEOs, billionaires are females? The truth still remains that gender equality is a pipe dream. Male dominance isnt something that was culturally instituted, it was engineered by nature. To fight it is to fight nature. You can't win. What women should advocate for is fair treatment. And that is what i stand for. Ascribe them honor as to weaker vessels

Are you holding on to the idea that until all masculine jobs and responsibilities are mirrored in the female demographic that is when fairness and equality would have been achieved? That's just what is fundamentally wrong with feminism - it refuses to respect the differences that are inherent in each gender. In trying to create an equal playing ground feminism has wrought serious damage on the very fibres of society and that's what I've been singing about on this thread.

It is funny that feminism always push for equality when it comes to the glamorous, i.e, feminists want more female CEOs, more female senators and the likes but they are curiously silent when occupations like plumbing, construction, fire fighting and other physically demanding jobs are brought up. One never hears anything about feminists protesting to be included in a military draft (in countries where the draft is mandatory), they are happy to leave those ones in the hands of men.

dicefrost:



What you claim to be feminism, is clearly not. Instead, society is taking steps to liberate and protect women, because they are the weak and vulnerable sex. Since men have used their natural dominance to oppress and suppress, it became imperative to protect women, and if possible empower them to defend themselves. That isnt feminism, it is fairness.

Except that the fight has now moved on from them being protected to them being the aggressors. The vulnerable sex thing has turned into a get-out-of-jail-free card.

I see you are arguing from both sides of the debate. Kind of like playing chess by yourself. Or is this some kind of mind trickery you using on me?

lolaredvelvet:
Oh lord! Lemme grab my popcorn and wait for vickybee and other "feminists" to come here and spew even more venomous trash!

Self-acclaimed feminists who argue for equality with men and yet expect laptops, phones, cars etc on vals day but in return give their dude a card .. Feminists that slap a man and then scream domestic abuse when he slaps her back. Feminists that demand men do chores because shes a "strong independent working woman" but yet still expects the man to pay the bills. Feminists that expect the man to propose and pay her bride price. Why dont you also pay his husband-price since you are equal..

Feminists stand up in your truth and begin to assume the responsibilities of men. Abi you just wanna eat ur cake and have it too!

Bottom line is dont scream equality when you cant handle what it takes to be equal with men.

I think you are mixing different things up.

@Bold: If women assumes the 'responsibilities' of men, who assumes the 'responsibilities' of women?

What has giving of gifts, paying bills etc. got to do with 'equality'? If there are two male friends and one is stingy or tries to be too smart, is one unequal to the other?

bukatyne:


I think you are mixing different things up.

@Bold: If women assumes the 'responsibilities' of men, who assumes the 'responsibilities' of women?

What has giving of gifts, paying bills etc. got to do with 'equality'? If there are two male friends and one is stingy or tries to be too smart, is one unequal to the other?

My point exactly! If women want to be equal to men then who is left to do what a woman is supposed to do? A wise woman is humble, simple and respectful to her man. Proverbs 31. She makes a living but NEVER should demand or order her man around ..... but what I see "feminists" trying to do is disrespect and degrade men but expect respect and adoration in return. It doesn't work that way. The devil has tricked women to believing being submissive means you are a fool. Now society is full of broken homes and families.

Relationships work best when both sexes play their respective roles. God ordered us women to submit to our men while the man loves the woman in return treating her with care and delicacy.

ApexTitan:


Are you holding on to the idea that until all masculine jobs and responsibilities are mirrored in the female demographic that is when fairness and equality would have been achieved? That's just what is fundamentally wrong with feminism - it refuses to respect the differences that are inherent in each gender. In trying to create an equal playing ground feminism has wrought serious damage on the very fibres of society and that's what I've been singing about on this thread.

It is funny that feminism always push for equality when it comes to the glamorous, i.e, feminists want more female CEOs, more female senators and the likes but they are curiously silent when occupations like plumbing, construction, fire fighting and other physically demanding jobs are brought up. One never hears anything about feminists protesting to be included in a military draft (in countries where the draft is mandatory), they are happy to leave those ones in the hands of men.

Do you know any parent who wants his child to be like the street mechanic or the omolanke?

Every parent wants his/her child to be a Lawyer, Doc, Engineer (now musician and football Star).

Besides, is there any glass ceiling stopping women from becoming plumbers or fire fighters if they want to?

As I said earlier, everyone should be given the freedom to be whatever they wanna be. CEO, fine... Lawyer, fine... Keke driver... fine

I do not think we have such restrictions in the Nigerian corporate environment.I might be wrong though.

Again, I think most of the battle left is of the mind. If husbands could be more supportive of their wives' careers, they would go a long way. No rule formulated on earth can make an unsupportive and unloving husband become supportive.

lolaredvelvet:



My point exactly! If women want to be equal to men then who is left to do what a woman is supposed to do? A wise woman is humble, simple and respectful to her man. Proverbs 31. She makes a living but NEVER should demand or order her man around ..... but what I see "feminists" trying to do is disrespect and degrade men but expect respect and adoration in return. It doesn't work that way. The devil has tricked women to believing being submissive means you are a fool. Now society is full of broken homes and families.

Relationships work best when both sexes play their respective roles. God ordered us women to submit to our men while the man loves the woman in return treating her with care and delicacy.

We are obviously not saying the same thing.

Humility, simplicity and respectfulness are not sole responsibilities of women in marriage. Men also ought not to order their wives around. 'Feminists' are not the ones who try to disrespect and degrade others and expect respect and adoration.

Besides, feminism and equality is wider than marriage.

I agree with you on mutual respect and treating others as you want them to treat you.

If giving expensive gifts make women equal.. don't you think the Kim Kardashians and Beyonces are 'equal' to their men? Are women who pay more bills and give more expensive gifts (due to higher earning power) 'superior' to their men or men in general?

bukatyne:


We are obviously not saying the same thing.

Humility, simplicity and respectfulness are not sole responsibilities of women in marriage. Men also ought not to order their wives around. 'Feminists' are not the ones who try to disrespect and degrade others and expect respect and adoration.

Besides, feminism and equality is wider than marriage.

I agree with you on mutual respect and treating others as you want them to treat you.

If giving expensive gifts make women equal.. don't you think the Kim Kardashians and Beyonces are 'equal' to their men? Are women who pay more bills and give more expensive gifts (due to higher earning power) 'superior' to their men or men in general?

We clearly aren't. I therefore wish to discontinue this pointless back and forth with you. To each his own. Take care

ApexTitan:


Are you holding on to the idea that until all masculine jobs and responsibilities are mirrored in the female demographic that is when fairness and equality would have been achieved? That's just what is fundamentally wrong with feminism - it refuses to respect the differences that are inherent in each gender. In trying to create an equal playing ground feminism has wrought serious damage on the very fibres of society and that's what I've been singing about on this thread.

It is funny that feminism always push for equality when it comes to the glamorous, i.e, feminists want more female CEOs, more female senators and the likes but they are curiously silent when occupations like plumbing, construction, fire fighting and other physically demanding jobs are brought up. One never hears anything about feminists protesting to be included in a military draft (in countries where the draft is mandatory), they are happy to leave those ones in the hands of men.

I will agree on this, feminism is now becoming a 'man-hating' campaign. Look at all of them on nairaland. In a bid to claim equality, they insult, disrespect and try to bully males. But in the end, you can always sense the dissatisfaction and frustration inherent in them. We need to protect women, and give them equal rights and opportunity. But male dominance will continue for eternity.

As far as I'm concerned, feminism has not and can do no evil.

People should be thankful to feminism, rubbish.

lolaredvelvet:
Oh lord! Lemme grab my popcorn and wait for vickybee and other "feminists" to come here and spew even more venomous trash!

Self-acclaimed feminists who argue for equality with men and yet expect laptops, phones, cars etc on vals day but in return give their dude a card .. Feminists that slap a man and then scream domestic abuse when he slaps her back. Feminists that demand men do chores because shes a "strong independent working woman" but yet still expects the man to pay the bills. Feminists that expect the man to propose and pay her bride price. Why dont you also pay his husband-price since you are equal..

Feminists stand up in your truth and begin to assume the responsibilities of men. Abi you just wanna eat ur cake and have it too!

Bottom line is dont scream equality when you cant handle what it takes to be equal with men.

Fallacy of hasty generalisation.

You know about yourself only. Don't speak for other women.

This is what I call using your life to judge another woman's life.

dicefrost:


I
Has gender equality been achieved? Has feminist ideas been fully integrated in our society? I guess not. Granted, there is a level playing field for both gender now, but the male dominance and gender roles are still very prominent. How many women are in the National assembly compared to men? How many female professors are in Nigeria compared to the males? How many female generals do we have in the army? How many CEOs, billionaires are females? The truth still remains that gender equality is a pipe dream. Male dominance isnt something that was culturally instituted, it was engineered by nature. To fight it is to fight nature. You can't win. What women should advocate for is fair treatment. And that is what i stand for. Ascribe them honor as to weaker vessels

Gender equality has been achieved.
Just giving a woman chance to do anything without restriction is gender equality.

Individual equality is what can never be achieved.

dicefrost:


I
Has gender equality been achieved? Has feminist ideas been fully integrated in our society? I guess not. Granted, there is a level playing field for both gender now, but the male dominance and gender roles are still very prominent. How many women are in the National assembly compared to men? How many female professors are in Nigeria compared to the males? How many female generals do we have in the army? How many CEOs, billionaires are females? The truth still remains that gender equality is a pipe dream. Male dominance isnt something that was culturally instituted, it was engineered by nature. To fight it is to fight nature. You can't win. What women should advocate for is fair treatment. And that is what i stand for. Ascribe them honor as to weaker vessels

If women are now being paid same as men for the same work, as opposed to before, the girl child now being educated, women taking up jobs that was originally considered fit for only men and vice versa,etc, how has gender equality not been achieved?

freecocoa:
If women are now being paid same as men for the same work, as opposed to before, the girl child now being educated, women taking up jobs that was originally considered fit for only men and vice versa,etc, how has gender equality not been achieved?

In my opinion, there's been a level playing field for all. Equal opportunity etc. But how many women do you find doing those jobs as oppose to men? The girl child is being educated now, but how many female professors are there compared to males? Though there is equal opportunity, male dominance and gender roles are still the norm. We cant change that.

dicefrost:



In my opinion, there's been a level playing field for all. Equal opportunity etc. But how many women do you find doing those jobs as oppose to men? The girl child is being educated now, but how many female professors are there compared to males? Though there is equal opportunity, male dominance and gender roles are still the norm. We cant change that.

I don't think those questions are necessary, bottomline is, their are women and men doing jobs originally restricted to gender.

Ofcourse, Rome wasn't built in a day, just like so many norms have been changed, will male dominance be a thing of history and pretty soon too.

bukatyne:


Do you know any parent who wants his child to be like the street mechanic or the omolanke?

Every parent wants his/her child to be a Lawyer, Doc, Engineer (now musician and football Star).

Besides, is there any glass ceiling stopping women from becoming plumbers or fire fighters if they want to?

As I said earlier, everyone should be given the freedom to be whatever they wanna be. CEO, fine... Lawyer, fine... Keke driver... fine

I do not think we have such restrictions in the Nigerian corporate environment.I might be wrong though.

Again, I think most of the battle left is of the mind. If husbands could be more supportive of their wives' careers, they would go a long way. No rule formulated on earth can make an unsupportive and unloving husband become supportive.

Is it so much as what parents want or what feminism has been campaigning about? According to the feminist ideology they want a world of complete parity between the two sexes especially in the labour market. The question raised though is why is it only the cushy and glamorous fields that merit their attention and focus, after all jobs like wielding, construction and even oil production (oil rig work) are practically dominated by men, why do these women not naturally gravitate towards such jobs? Why are women not insisting to be included in the military draft which has been exclusively restricted to men in some countries? Why are these jobs never brought into focus like the other white collar jobs? Nigeria might not be a good example to observe this but when we look at the west that is the stronghold of feminism this trend appears very curious.

As I stated in an earlier post better remuneration and employment opportunities are welcome developments especially as economic realities have compelled wives and women in general into the labour market. But it seems this is not enough for the feminist movement, it wants to completely restructure the existing order so that its interests are on top and it is going about this in a duplicitous manner.

Being feminine vs being feminist
http://opeyemioladotun..com/2015/05/strong-solid-bold-like-wall.html

dicefrost:


I
Has gender equality been achieved? Has feminist ideas been fully integrated in our society? I guess not. Granted, there is a level playing field for both gender now, but the male dominance and gender roles are still very prominent. How many women are in the National assembly compared to men? How many female professors are in Nigeria compared to the males? How many female generals do we have in the army? How many CEOs, billionaires are females? The truth still remains that gender equality is a pipe dream. Male dominance isnt something that was culturally instituted, it was engineered by nature. To fight it is to fight nature. You can't win. What women should advocate for is fair treatment. And that is what i stand for. Ascribe them honor as to weaker vessels

great post.

freecocoa:
I don't think those questions are necessary, bottomline is, their are women and men doing jobs originally restricted to gender.

Ofcourse, Rome wasn't built in a day, just like so many norms have been changed, will male dominance be a thing of history and pretty soon too.

and then what What will you do then?

Hmn. . .I couldn't help but gape at everything i've seen here.even with gender equality and all, feminism still persists. Why What else do they want? It has now become sort of a battle, waged by one sex on the other, they read meanings into evey behaviour and generally hate men. Why do you hate men?"why should you hate men? The playing field has been leveled. Why can't you just go out there and show us just how equal you guys are compared to us There is not need for theory anymore. What we need now is action. I want to see a female zuckerberg. A female witten. A female khan. A female page. A female Spielberg. Then, I will conclude that indeed . . . . . beyond irrevocable, empirical, scientifical proof, feminism was not a huge was of time.