2good:


I know that city and guides in the UK have an HND equivalent certificate. I also know that most EU countries have either a direct HND program or an equivalent degree. They might have different terminologies for these degrees but the idea is all thesame.
Concerning your second question, yes i am telling you that HND and BSc degree are not thesame. In the Netherlands where I did my MSc, they have 3 different higher institutions after high school with the lowest training people to be artisans, the next training people to be HND holder and the highest training people to be BSc/ MSc holder. Also only about 15% of Dutch citizens go to university to get a degree. the vast majority goes to artisan school next to polytechnic and then university. Thesame system is also used in Germany and several other EU countries.
At entry level stage, they all have different job grades which translate to different salary level. Even Shell Netherlands employ only MSc holders now as minimum requirement to be an Engineer. An HND holder in Shell cannot design a system until they upgrade to a BSc.

Bro I really think you should listen to some of us here, kill the assumptions you have,I'm not saying you don't have a clue rather pointing you to the direction of you missing the point,I'm an operations service manager,I got that post few weeks ago.I have other professional qualification, never at any point was I asked BSc or HNd,rather I was asked tactical questions to provoke my experience, they have various test to check you problem solving skills etc, the list goes on, if anyone had a Job interview in the Uk they will def know what I'm on about,this is a job specification I created for tomorrow Monday
Service Delivery Manager

Job description

We are looking for an experienced service delivery manager to manage one of our high profile clients, maintaining high levels of service from all areas of the core business. This is a high performing team with opportunities to grow. Main Duties and Responsibilities: - Develop understanding of the client and services deployed on the client site - Have a working knowledge of the underlying technology that underpins the services offered - Be able to converse and explain the technologies and services to Clients - Service Management - Attend Service Reviews with Service Managers, on request to assist in providing excellent customer service - Ensure the Service actions are pursued and customer are kept fully informed of their status - Monitor Customer SLAs and produce periodical reports for both internal and customer audiences. - Ensure internal Service Delivery documentation is reviewed and updated at the required intervals coordinate and facilitate this within the team Customer management - Ensure that customer concerns and queries are addressed in a timely manner - Liaise with others within the company to progress outstanding issues - Attend regular progress and review meetings - Effectively communicate relevant information to interested parties - Resolve and/or escalate issues in a timely fashion. ITIL qualification Service Delivery experience (desirable) - Experience of incident, problem and change management - Understanding of appropriate OLAs and SLAs to support existing and new services - Experience of contributing to Client-facing Service Reviews - Working knowledge of support processes - Experience of working on service improvement projects - Experience in implementing best practice service management processes Please apply with a brief covering note explaining why you are suited to this position. 0.0000 Specialty: Service Delivery.

zizirecords:
I have a simple question: why are the JAMB cutoffs different? Because the requirements are different and not equal. How can you expect the qualifications to be the same?

Until we start vying for same requirements in terms of admissions, standards of lecturers and learning environment etc btw our polytechnics and universities, I feel this topic cannot be taken seriously. Just my own opinion anyway.

ladkud:


working for govt. and pp am building on that. Mech eng'g is not bad too. no any eng'g course is wasted it is just in Nigeria that didn't know the bearing is going. because of the corrupt people Nigeria.

well true but like I said, Mech Eng reacquire huge investment for one to go self employed,but with civil Engineering, you can start by simple floor plan design and earn up to N100k a month I lie?

eyinjuege:
javascript:void(0);

Until we start vying for same requirements in terms of admissions, standards of lecturers and learning environment etc btw our polytechnics and universities, I feel this topic cannot be taken seriously. Just my own opinion anyway.

Is Patience Faka Jonathan not a graduate?

Why do people talk as if we do not know how Nigerian cheat to get their qualifications

Do we have the same standards/requirements amongst universities? I do not believe there is any difference between Nigerian university and polytechnic graduates they are mostly rubbish in terms of intellect,probity and Nigeria who get in and out by cheating. The lecturers cheat to get their Phds too so that does not impress me either. The Nigeriian market is what it is and so we need to phase out HNDs which seem to have outlived their usefulness.What happened many years ago in the UK is that polytechnics had their status changed to universities because of similar controversy and we should do the same.

@2good, as you can see, no mention of BSc or MSc,if one can address those poking question and demonstrate his/her capability then you are good to go.trust me, its not easy to demonstrate them.Questions like how you deal with a late coming staff,how you deal with certain events and outcomes.They are more practical in teh west rather than dwelling in Degrees and cert.

BluePulse:


Lolsssssss!!!

"You don't wound an enemy you cannot kill."
Lionel Luthor...

#lionel;;just remember son' judas hung himself with his own rope'

Jakara:


Learn to read well before contributing. Which constitution stated that they should be discriminated in Labour Market more expecially in a place where people bear live arms. I pray that you or your family becomes a direct victim or fall casualty to this unconstitutional and irrelevant discrimination.
Say Amen to my prayers above if you are still sure that B.Sc is constitutionally above HND.

Hmmmm...

porka:


[size=13pt]They two systems are designed with different objectives.

Degree programs are designed for top level management and policy makers. Degree holders are thus trained to use their brain to think out/through solutions while Diploma holders are trained to receive instructions and carry them out as directed.

That's why they (Diploma holders) are better at punching Adding Machines than figuring out how income can be generated in an organization.[/size]

Bro, am actually fascinated with your analytical view of it.... but going by what you typed, it means one can't survive without the help of the other. and even though, I think we the students are even the one discriminating If you should look at it in general.
some student/graduate can form their lives out ehh because of Bsc.

ladkud:


I want you to tell the courses in which engineering student are offering in university that polytechnic students didn't offer. for me, am a graduate of polytechnic and I have met my counterparts from university and discovered that they are just empty barrel. i sent my transcript to world education service in USA and the number of credit unit I offered is even more than B.sc. note I graduated with distinction in civil engineering. if u are graduate of civil engineering we can enter into academic duel.

You can choose to take it or leave it, they ain't the same! Not just academically but professionally as well, they ain't the same. Even in the UK, HNC/HND and BSc ain't the same man... And that's a working system distinguishing both certificates. An engineer with a Bachelor's degree becomes registered after 4 years of experience, but an HND holder can never be an engineer, instead he gets registered as an engineering technologist. The only way is for him to get a bachelor's degree and get the experience and then get registered as an engineer. Their curricula ain't the same. HND holders are trained to become technologist, while BSc holders are trained to be researchers... Its like comparing an MEng with an MSc, the former is 12months,while the latter is 24months. The former ain't research, but the latter is, that is why they can proceed for PhD, while the former can't, except on conversion via MPhil. I can keep going, but I believe I have made my point... It's a very intricate and precarious situation.
I'm a civil/Structural engineer, and I have OND, HND(distinction), BSc(UIbadan)... Preparing for an MSc(outside the country). I hear you want to fight, for what??

pinkyruledworld:
Nigeria HND is equivalent to American Bsc, America apreciates it but Nigerians (most bsc holders) does not. same as portugal honouring Rasheed Yekini while Nigerian Govt. forgets him.And the funny thing is that na most of those BSc students dump pass especially in engineering and sciences

Nigerian HND = American Bsc??.. Nah where u hear dat one chairman??

Popoolaoladayo:
In the first place, it is important to note that the two systems are not the same and can never be the same. One is also not an alternative to the other. Polytechnic education is purely a techno-scientific education. This is in contrast to that of the university that is predominantly academic. The meaning of this is that while polytechnic education concentrates on technical cum scientific education and at the same time providing the nation and economy with the much needed and indispensable middle level manpower, the university concentrates on academic work and research. The result of their academic and research work is exactly what the polytechnic cadre puts into a practical form. For instance, an Electronics/Electrical Engineering graduate from the university can sit down on a table and plan how a given building can be wired. He is not expected to do the wiring himself. The wiring, which is a practical aspect, is now the responsibility of the polytechnic Electronic/Electrical Engineering graduate.
The argument here is that while polytechnic education is more of practical, The Bachelor’s Degree also known as “Baccalaureate” in many countries. The word baccalaureate is a distorted version of German word “Bakkalaureus.” The Bachelor’s degree was first awarded in Germany, but was later abolished. The degree resurfaced in 1820, however, as part of a change in the higher education system. A Bachelor’s degree is an undergraduate academic degree. The name “Bachelor” was given to the degree because of the English word “Bachelor” meaning young apprentice (Encyclopaedia Britannica 2007).that of the university is theoretical. Polytechnic education is, for instance, 60 per cent practical and 40 percent theoretical while that of the university is vice versa.
This little explanation is a pure pointer to the fact that both educational systems are not the same or is one an alternative to the other. Therefore, a student who is opting for the polytechnic education should bear in mind that he is opting for a practical- oriented education. He can only switch to the university if he wants to go academic or theoretical. In a nutshell, one does not enter a polytechnic as a last resort. It is a different educational system with its own mission, vision and, of course, a clear objective.
Countries like Japan, Korea, Germany, Australia, Malaysia and many developed economies rely deeply on skilled and technical education despite knowing that the university education has an edge over the polytechnic education.Both qualifications work hand in hand because they compliment each other.The government of Nigeria should apply Adams Stacy's equity theory so as to give a positive end result in organizational goals.More so course content of both the university and the Polytechnic should be interwoven.
The discrimination is conspicuous and i know how you feel jakarta.i held the bull by the horn by going back to school dumping my two HNDs for PGD.I surged on and today i will affirmatively tell you that i have two masters degrees and a PHD in view.You can even decide to do a top program in any university(it is just one year six month).
Finally you will observe that you even have the edge over every because you have the acumen of the practicals and theory in you.IF THE CONTEMPORARY SITUATION IS DOWNGRADING YOUR EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT,FIGHT IT HARD TO BEAT THE CONTEMPORARY POLICIES OF THE EDUCATIONAL DICHOTOMY.

You really make sense.

clear throat! let's face it bsc have an edge but that does not make an HND holder a mediocre. what really matters is how effective and innovative an individual can be at his or her field of duty,pls let's work as one,together we'll be progressive and seperated we'll be retarded

creepsyme:
I always never liked polytechnic, am glad I never went to one. I feel sorry though for the discrimination meted out on them, my advice is for them to upgrade, I know a few pple who dumped their HND and went for a university degree afresh. May God help us.

Some people find it difficult to understand that all five fingers ain't equal.
By the way, do you have to swear to prove that you look cute when no one has asked for your pix? Just asking....don't crucify me oooo. Do have a splendid Sunday, ma'am.

tonytony208:
Your spelling of "dangerous" is enough to show you off as a poly student. Many of them cant speak or write simple and correct English; just like you have displayed here. Now, which polytechnic did you graduate from? Your school's standard must have been very poor! "Dangerious"? Queen Elizabeth must hear this!

so all University graduate never make mistakes abi?

erico2k2:

I hope you start your own company instead of looking for work, Nigeria is Building,I envy you cos you chose the right Eng course, I wish I did that myself as start up in civil Eng is so easy than Mech Engin I did years back,Im now doing fastrack on civil Eng.good luck guy.

Why fastrack bro?... Just fastrack??

luthorcorp:
#lionel;;just remember son' judas hung himself with his own rope'

Lolsssss...
Against public opinion, dat man was my favorite act in d series. U are gbaski bro!!!

When an individual excels and does something innovative, it wouldn't matter if he was an HND/BSc holder. Moreover, why is the Poly not fully funded as the UNI?

Imokay:
Is the entry requirement the same for Universities and Polytechnics? Is the course content the same?
So why expect them to handle the same job descriptions.

In Engineering the hierarchy is Engineers--Technologist--Technicians--Craftsmen--Artisans

The qualification for each is clear and the roles they play are quite different and one cannot be substituted for the other.There may be overlaps in reality, but Imagine Technicians insisting to also carry the title Engr.
HND/Technologist need not have inferiority complex, there is dignity in labour.

. I quite understood your saying but it is very unfortunate that Nigeria graduates especially those with Bachelor Degrees project ego without actually showcasing the qualities of having such degrees. Though, by principle of Nigeria education curricula, BSc is rated higher than HND but many so called degree holders are really not meeting up; only putting up ego of having the certificate. All you have said is based on theories but contrary is the case in practice. If you could recall, Nigeria Society of Engineers once allowed HND holders to pass through graduateship examinations set by the body. To the dismay of many, the examinations were rubbished by many HND holders thereby qualifying them for corporate membership cadre of the institution. COREN had no option registering those in that category as qualified engineers. When such was noticed, they quickly moved on scrapping the examination. I was fortunate to be part of the team. As far as I am concerned, many of my collegues having B. Eng degrees are not performing better than I do in engineering design, leadership and management. In fact, some are not even meeting up what is expected of them. If Polytechnic education is strenghtened in Nigeria, brilliant minds will excel their counterparts in the universities. Many foreign polytechnics award degrees equivalent to universities with no iota of discrimination.I will not mince words by telling you that some polytechnic graduates are also a big shame to the their respective institutions while many polytechnics have no standards at all. I am of the opinion that the two set of graduates(degrees and HND) be tried in their respective offices before promotion. Whoever is not meeting up could be set aside. They should be given the right to aspire to the highest cadre so far they meet up the requirement. My friend, I still hold Bachelor Degree in Communication Technology coupled with my HND in Electrical Engineering. Let us drop discrimination but root for the best brains in the country. I do hope you will strongly believe that best brains are not limited to university system. Thank you.

frank043:


Why fastrack bro?... Just fastrack??

Fastrack cos Im a mech Engineer so have a basics, I can cope with the speed,I know the elements required for me to be a civil Engineer.This is in principle though as I'm not doing this to apply for job rather be my own Boss if you get me.

omonnakoda:


Well I did not ask if they are the same that was not my question.

Moving on
Is the Nigerian HND the same as the Ducth or German HND

Also is a Nigerian Engineering Bsc The same as a Dutch or German one?

Is the Nigerian HND the same as other HNDs obtainable in Europe? This is the question most Bsc supremacists shy away from.

The BTEC-HND in the UK for example is just a 2-year programme not requiring another 2-year diploma (ND for example in Nigeria) as part of entry requirements. In other words, it takes 2years of full-time study to obtain HND in Europe while it takes 5years of full-time study to obtain the Nigerian HND. Though the two bear the same nomenclature it is obvious they are not equal in terms of academic worth. This is why the Nigerian HND, when evaluated alongside its prerequisite (ND), is usually found to be equivalent to bachelor's degree. There are attestations to that on this forum by HND holders who have done such evaluation for postgraduate studies.

LuckyLadolce:
Oh no! So u don't know u r the captive here? U r the one who really dont have freedom and will probably not av freedom forever if you persist in this manners of criticism. The problem of ppl like u is, ur mind is jst too shallow and this is why ur empty head think ur certificate will take u to a greater height than those who are illiterates or whoever did not av a university education. I will not even talk abt bill gate. Rather, i will talk abt a black man like me... DANGOTE. jst tell me the university he attended and i will give up on this matter and if at all he did, is that what made him?. Until u Stop seeing life in just one direction, u may never av freedom.

Dangote had his university education in Egypt. Thank you for the point made.

frank043:


You can choose to take it or leave it, they ain't the same! Not just academically but professionally as well, they ain't the same. Even in the UK, HNC/HND and BSc ain't the same man... And that's a working system distinguishing both certificates. An engineer with a Bachelor's degree becomes registered after 4 years of experience, but an HND holder can never be an engineer, instead he gets registered as an engineering technologist. The only way is for him to get a bachelor's degree and get the experience and then get registered as an engineer. Their curricula ain't the same. HND holders are trained to become technologist, while BSc holders are trained to be researchers... Its like comparing an MEng with an MSc, the former is 12months,while the latter is 24months. The former ain't research, but the latter is, that is why they can proceed for PhD, while the former can't, except on conversion via MPhil. I can keep going, but I believe I have made my point... It's a very intricate and precarious situation.
I'm a civil/Structural engineer, and I have OND, HND(distinction), BSc(UIbadan)... Preparing for an MSc(outside the country). I hear you want to fight, for what??

Thank you! it is person like you I will like to talk, pls since experience in the two pls can u tell me any course you offer in Bsc that you have not come across in your HND. Mind yo if you do your research well, HNC/HND offering institution in UK are no more. so u can't use UK to judge. If you are not going to be sentimental about it, with what you did in your HND does the discrimination worth it. And besides where did u quote me that I said I want to fight. If I say Academic duel does that mean fight. Look I have already applied for Bsc in university of Ilorin and to your notice am pursuing first class insha Allah.

erico2k2:

Fastrack cos Im a mech Engineer so have a basics, I can cope with the speed,I know the elements required for me to be a civil Engineer.This is in principle though as I'm not doing this to apply for job rather be my own Boss if you get me.

Sure I get you... It's cool, keep it up. I did a lot of self training on some softwares used in my field. Before you will know it, you are a guru in it. Don't get discouraged, OK? Remain focused.

yeah it doesn't sound fare to me either, but how long does it take to get a HND ??

ladkud:


Thank you! it is person like you I will like to talk, pls since experience in the two pls can u tell me any course you offer in Bsc that you have not come across in your HND. Mind yo if you do your research well, HNC/HND offering institution in UK are no more. so u can't use UK to judge. If you are not going to be sentimental about it, with what you did in your HND does the discrimination worth it. And besides where did u quote me that I said I want to fight. If I say Academic duel does that mean fight. Look I have already applied for Bsc in university of Ilorin and to your notice am pursuing first class insha Allah.

Congrats!... Wish you all the best.

DivineConnect:
. I quite understood your saying but it is very unfortunate that Nigeria graduates especially those with Bachelor Degrees project ego without actually showcasing the qualities of having such degrees. Though, by principle of Nigeria education curricula, BSc is rated higher than HND but many so called degree holders are really not meeting up; only putting up ego of having the certificate. All you have said is based on theories but contrary is the case in practice. If you could recall, Nigeria Society of Engineers once allowed HND holders to pass through graduateship examinations set by the body. To the dismay of many, the examinations were rubbished by many HND holders thereby qualifying them for corporate membership cadre of the institution. COREN had no option registering those in that category as qualified engineers. When such was noticed, they quickly moved on scrapping the examination. I was fortunate to be part of the team. As far as I am concerned, many of my collegues having B. Eng degrees are not performing better than I do in engineering design, leadership and management. In fact, some are not even meeting up what is expected of them. If Polytechnic education is strenghtened in Nigeria, brilliant minds will excel their counterparts in the universities. Many foreign polytechnics award degrees equivalent to universities with no iota of discrimination.I will not mince words by telling you that some polytechnic graduates are also a big shame to the their respective institutions while many polytechnics have no standards at all. I am of the opinion that the two set of graduates(degrees and HND) be tried in their respective offices before promotion. Whoever is not meeting up could be set aside. They should be given the right to aspire to the highest cadre so far they meet up the requirement. My friend, I still hold Bachelor Degree in Communication Technology coupled with my HND in Electrical Engineering. Let us drop discrimination but root for the best brains in the country. I do hope you will strongly believe that best brains are not limited to university system. Thank you.

Thank you! may God Almighty strengthen your knowledge and intelligent

williamson46:
Nigerian HND = American Bsc??.. Nah where u hear dat one chairman??

Have u heard about world evaluation service? If not, you can look it up on google. They evaluate a certificate from any country and tell u its american equivalent. HND is equivalent to B.Sc, while ND is equivalent to an associate degree. The british were known to use the Hnd format which we automatically used due to our "colony", but they have since stopped bt Nigeria still uses it as we all know. Well, WES is based in USA. God Bless and may Allah help us in this country.

DivineConnect:
. I quite understood your saying but it is very unfortunate that Nigeria graduates especially those with Bachelor Degrees project ego without actually showcasing the qualities of having such degrees. Though, by principle of Nigeria education curricula, BSc is rated higher than HND but many so called degree holders are really not meeting up; only putting up ego of having the certificate. All you have said is based on theories but contrary is the case in practice. If you could recall, Nigeria Society of Engineers once allowed HND holders to pass through graduateship examinations set by the body. To the dismay of many, the examinations were rubbished by many HND holders thereby qualifying them for corporate membership cadre of the institution. COREN had no option registering those in that category as qualified engineers. When such was noticed, they quickly moved on scrapping the examination. I was fortunate to be part of the team. As far as I am concerned, many of my collegues having B. Eng degrees are not performing better than I do in engineering design, leadership and management. In fact, some are not even meeting up what is expected of them. If Polytechnic education is strenghtened in Nigeria, brilliant minds will excel their counterparts in the universities. Many foreign polytechnics award degrees equivalent to universities with no iota of discrimination.I will not mince words by telling you that some polytechnic graduates are also a big shame to the their respective institutions while many polytechnics have no standards at all. I am of the opinion that the two set of graduates(degrees and HND) be tried in their respective offices before promotion. Whoever is not meeting up could be set aside. They should be given the right to aspire to the highest cadre so far they meet up the requirement. My friend, I still hold Bachelor Degree in Communication Technology coupled with my HND in Electrical Engineering. Let us drop discrimination but root for the best brains in the country. I do hope you will strongly believe that best brains are not limited to university system. Thank you.

Bless you for the wisdom u've displayed. Dullards are everywhere, so are genius

pinkyruledworld:
Have u heard about world evaluation service? If not, you can look it up on google. They evaluate a certificate from any country and tell u its american equivalent. They are based in USA. God Bless

so, Nigerien Bsc equals??

HND and BSc Discrimination, part of Nigerian major problem


Higher National Diploma (HND) is obtained from Polytechnic schools, while Bachelor of Science (B.Sc) is obtained from Universities.

Polytechnic students in Nigeria have suffered due to unconstitutional dichotomy created by some disgruntled occultists in Nigeria for their own selfish interest. This act has gradually killed Nigeria technical education and caused this country more harm than good.

Some of these Discrepancies are as follows:
a) Inequality in salary Grade Level (HND:GL 07 & BSc:GL 08).
b) Security personnel; Bsc (Commissioned), HND (Non-commissioned)
c) Promotion; HND (maximum of GL 12), while BSc (Unlimited).
d) Banking/Financial institutions treat HND holders like slaves.
e) BSc holders employed as Admin staff, while HND holders are kept as cheap staff.

Some of the dangers imposed on organisations and this country at large are:
a) Unemployment for HND holders, which has caused some of them to engage in all kinds of vices, such as; Assassination, kidnapping, Armed robbery, money ritual, etc.
b) Nonchalant attitude in place of work.
c) Hiding of acquired/inherent ideas that could move Organisations and Nigeria higher.
d) Hatred among colleagues or comrades, causing each to kill one another through, poison, assassination, charm, etc.
e) Candidates now rush and lobby for University admission, thereby killing Nigerian’s technical education which polytechnic mainly offer.

If this disparities/dichotomy must exist, the following conditions must be adopted:
a) Educational years in polytechnic (from OND to HND) should be reduced.
b) UTME/Post-UTME should be scraped out for Polytechnic candidates.
c) School fees in Polytechnic should be slashed down drastically.
d) One year Industrial Training/Attachment for polytechnic students should be scrapped.
e) Five (5) credits SSCE requirement for admission into polytechnic should be reduced.
f) Subjects offered in Polytechnics (both OND and HND) should be reduced.
g) Carry-over should be scraped from Polytechnic.
h) Theoretical exams should be dropped, while objective exams adopted for Polytechnic.

Government should put a stop to this barbaric act because is not stated in either of the following; Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, Public Service Rules, Financial Regulations, Civil Service Handbook, Federal Establishment Circulars, Schemes Of Service.

If these could not be stopped, government should scrap Polytechnic education in Nigeria to avoid further frustration of visionary/brilliant Nigeria HND graduates.

tonytony208:


What is this half-backed poly student saying? Where did your empty-skulled self hear me calling champion incorrectly? It is like you are hallucinating. You can go and die if you want. You will always be subject to BSC holders forever! Eediot.

A full is never had to be noticed.Get small sense and try shut up Agbaya!

tonytony208:


What is this half-backed poly student saying? Where did your empty-skulled self hear me calling champion incorrectly? It is like you are hallucinating. You can go and die if you want. You will always be subject to BSC holders forever! Eediot.

A fool is never had to be noticed.Get small sense and try shut up Agbaya!