.

grouppoint, what do u mean by we surrendering our free will to God in order to be saved.

Why then did he give us free will, when he knew he would make us surrender it back to him.

@ Ugonna,
Thank you for that question (very analytical question). Well,I have to be weary of you as from now on.

@ group point,
Oya, answer her question. 

Ugonna asked: Why did God give us freewill?

Ans:
God made us in His image. An inherent feature of this image is for us to have freewill.


What do I mean by we surrendering our free will to God in order to be saved?

Ans:
As the creator, He wants us to operate in His way. (just as any inventor would expect of his product)
The 1st man did not, and as a result, became disconnected from the spirit of God.
Surrendering your will means operating in Gods way. The reward of this is salvation.
Salvation means reconnecting to the spirit of God.

is it me or is all of this a little confusing?

@Grouppoint: please can you just in as few sentences a possible explain where our freewill and Gods Omniscience converge?

Grouppoint, i bow for you o.     i will come back for u later. i am very busy now in my office

Grouppoint, you haven't answered my question.

Grouppoint:

As the creator, He wants us to operate in His way.

When we begin to operate in God's way, then we no longer have any freewill. We're now doing the will of the father, no longer our own will!

of course who do you think God is? don't you know that he is Omniscient (All knowing?) who can object to that?

@grouppoint,
I strongly agree with goodguy, you seem to be supporting both freewill and omniscience of God which indebt analysis over the years have shown to contradict. Can you please tell us how God can be omniscient with man having freewill? You have been dancing around with words but have failed to expressly tell us where God's omniscience and man's freewill converge.

so gruoppoint, which one do u believe in- God's Omniscince, Man's freewill or both.

Pls be straight forward in your response

@Goodguy asked:
When we begin to operate in God's way, then we no longer have any freewill.  We're now doing the will of the father, no longer our own will!

Ans:
True. When you begin to operate in God's way, you align your will with your Creator's will. However, That is still a choice for Mankind to make. You are free to make any choice, knowing the consequences.

I suppose a more appropriate question would be thus; Will Man's use of his freewill lead him to salvation?

@KDK Asked:
You have been dancing around with words but have failed to expressly tell us where God's omniscience and man's freewill converge.

Ans: I understood this thread was aimed at addressing the following questions:
Is God Omniscient, Furthermore, Does Mankind have freewill?

Yes, God is all-knowing.
Yes, Mankind is free to choose whatever he will.

Even if you change your mind 12 times along the way, God still knows your eventuall choice. (I did not say that God still determines your choice for you).

I really dont see any confusion here.

Ugonna. I hope this clarifies my position on the matter.

Freewill or not,

God is the all-knower of all things.
He knows before u do, afterall we all are just acting to a script he has written and designed for us.

We are nothing but pencils in the hand of GOD.

@goodguy, the other part of your question.

Where God's omniscience and man's freewill converge,

Other components come into play.
Omnipotence, Mercy, etc
Omnipotence: Having unlimited or universal power.
God can do anything. However, this does not mean that He will do everything.

This is where you find scriptures like I will shew mercy unto whomsoever I will.
I believe that God has already set into play various laws, which will determine the effectual result of our actions.
e.g. seedtime and harvest.

Hence if you say that Gods Omniscience and Omnipotence have biased Mankind's use of his freewill, then you are not incorrect.
However, this is man's use of that freewill, and not man's possesion of it.

grouppoint
i am begining to understand what you mean, though it really hasn't sunk in. there is actually a difference between God knowing what we will do and His determining what we will do. i think it is His determining what we will do that infringes on our free will. and i guess his omniscience ONLY knows not determines our actions. That swhat i deducted from this statement you made: "Even if you change your mind 12 times along the way, God still knows your eventuall choice. (I did not say that God still determines your choice for you).". am i onthe same track you're on?

@Lafille,

Yes, You Are On Track.

@ macalurs,
why are you sad?

Grouppoint, I was agreeing with your points until you got to where you said the Trinity is not equal and Christ is not all knowing. I've to leave now but I'll back to back up my disagreements.

@KDK
The problem is perspective. It always will be. Your views vs mine. The mindset with which some on this thread make posts is just sad. The "I'm sure of what I'm saying-- shut up" mentality is just strong-- If only points of view could be presented as what they are, not "points from God" then, no it wont be as sad.

@grouppoint, is it possible for one to believe in two things that contradict each other.

@Ugonnae Cognitive dissonance

@Ugonna

The theory of cognitive dissonance states that contradicting cognitions serve as a driving force that compels the mind to acquire or invent new thoughts or beliefs, or to modify existing beliefs, so as to reduce the amount of conflict between cognitions.

Case in point; The concept of the Trinity was not expressly stated in scripture. It came about when man, having decided that there was only one person in God (the Father), at the same time, could not deny that Jesus is God, and like wise the Holy Spirit.

Sometimes these conflicts reveals another truth.

@Macalurs

I chose not to respond to your earlier comments. The first being when you suggested that God was a sadist.
The second was the sad face icon.
Now you have suggested, right after my posting, that your sadness was due to the "I'm right, shut up, mentality".

Pls, if this is directed at me, can you pls explain, giving particular reference to anything I may have written, that would cast me in this light.?

Oh no no no pure coincidence man-- pure coincidence. Nothing's directed at you. I just asserted that it was sad, the surety with which people present their points.

Posts here are made not from minds that seem they want to learn, but from already formed opinions- theories- which to me, leaves no room to learn from a discussion. Again, what I see, you or anyone else might not, just my 50kobo.

I like good men, I think u're a good one._{or aren't u?}

what do You think ?

@Macalurs

At the risk of appearing overly modest, may I refer you to Mark 10:8 or Luke 18:19

Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

Continue with ur discussion, sorry to interrupt.

Grouppoint,  I am picking up where I left off where you said the Trinity is not equal.
First of all, I believe that there's only one God in essence but existing in three distinct persons. Just like you said the Father is different from the Son and the Holy Spirit etc  Not only that, I also believe that they all share the Godhead attributes of co-eternal, ominscience, omnipresent etc.
If we believe Christ or the Holy Spirit to be God but not all-knowing or equal, wouldn't that make "them" to be  lesser "gods" of some sort or not as powerful since "they're" limited?

Furthermore, the scripture passage you alluded to about Chirst is correct; however, remember that Christ was not exhibiting or turned off (for lack better words) some of His Godly attributes while He was here as a man. For example, God doesn't get hungry, He was. God doesn't sleep, He slept.  I believe to balance that Scripture we could look at these passages from Phil 2.
5Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus: [Let Him be your example in humility:]
    6Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[b]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not [c]think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [d]or retained,
    7But stripped Himself [of all privileges and [e]rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.
    8And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross! 

My point is, Christ was operating in a limited state.  However, now in glory, in His full capacity, He's all knowing and possesses all other attributes He wasn't exhibiting.
I wait to read what anyone comments.

theORAKU: We are nothing but pencils in the hand of GOD.

Then man has no freewill!