oluwalfa:


Online is not real life
Those that say that they are not Igbo should say what they are
Ika and Ukwuani are clans not tribes
A referendum is the best way to show what people are and before the creation of the mid western region region, a referendum was organised and all Anioma voted to join Igbo in the East but were overulled

Bro. I am aware of the Pro Igbo stance of the Western Igbos before 1966.
I am aware that two kings from Ika and one from Ukwuani( Aboh) were against the Separation of the Western Igbos from the Eastern ones in 1939 by Bourdillion, which was the genesis of the problem we have today. The 1939 division by Bourdillion divided Igboland into two, and ceded our western front to our mortal enemies, the Yorubas.
It was out of Igbo solidarity that those three Anioma kings petitioned the British to re unite the Western Igbo with the Eastern ones.

I am aware that Osadebey the man that coined the term " Anioma" was strongly pro Igbo and was one of the strong men of Igbo union those days, he later became one of the founding fathers of Ohanaeze Ndiigbo.


I am aware of all that, but they all happened pre 1970. Those generation of Western Igbos are gone, and the post civil war Nigerian anti Igbo policy has seen them replaced with Igbophobic types, the type Oliseh represents today.

This is what we are dealing with today. Applying yesterdays solutions to today's problems is never going to work,

Ntezi, Effium and Okpoto are three towns in Ebonyi state that doesn't speak Igbo as first language, and everyone in Ebonyi knows they are not Igbos and address them as such.

Igbos never colonized anyone, if you don't speak an Igbo related language as a first language, then you are not Igbo, but if you do, then you are Igbo.

read about Ntezi, Effium and Okpoto ethnic group here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kele_people_(Nigeria)

Igbos don't force Igbo tag on any one.

oluwalfa:


So if tomorrow Oliseh's son starts ranting "My name is Oliseh but in fact I'm not a Black African, I am from a town called Dortmund in Germany", we should all just respect his "identity"?

Danny welbeck English or ghanian?
Is obama Kenyan or American?

oluwalfa:


efik is certainly not Igbo as efik is a tribe

That was just an example and not meant to be exact, why are some Igbo elements on NL so bothered by how a man chooses to identify himself

Afam4eva:

There were Igbo groups but they were not under one umbrella as Igbo. The British created the Igbo tag just like they did others. So, I believe that you will have no problem if people from Ogun state say they are not Yorubas just because it's the British that created the tag anyways.

Britain didn't create the Yoruba tag...... Also, the fact that many Large cosmopolitan Yoruba Urban settlements already existed long before colonization meant that a lot of Yorubas were already aware of most other Yoruba groups..... I am not saying there are no disparities between Yoruba groups, but it isn't nearly as strong as that which exist between Igbos. A colonial documents describes Igbos to live in isolated homesteads scattered accross the land, such that family A sees Family B as "strangers" and town A sees town B as a completely different group of people entirely.

Also, the Ika just like Ekpeye are Igboid languages and not just dialects of Igbo.... There is a difference. Ngwa, Etiti, Mbaise, Etc are dialects of Igbo. While their culture and arguably also the people, are a mix of their own Igboid cultures, and that of the Edoid people around them (More Bini influence around Ika, and more Urhobo influence along the Ukwale axis), just like the Itsekiris are primarily South Eastern Yoruba, but have also mixed in with some Edo and Urhobo...... It is not a surprise that the acceptance of the igbo identity among the Aniomas grows stronger the closer one gets to Onitsha/The river Niger, and wanes further West and South, such that the scenario in places like Kwale and Agbor is completely different from what is obtainable in Asaba or Ibusa..... Not a co-incidence imo.

I can't say that it is unfortunate that they are not situated in the South East, since I am sure they are proud of their current location in Delta state of Nigeria-. But if they were, I am pretty sure their original identities would have been watered down by now into an Igbo one.... It would be the same thing if Itsekiris were located somewhere in Ogun state .... But these people are who they are, and people should just learn to accept it.

scholes0:


Britain didn't create the Yoruba tag...... Also, the fact that many Large cosmopolitan Yoruba Urban settlements already existed long before colonization meant that a lot of Yorubas were already aware of most other Yoruba groups..... I am not saying there are no disparities between Yoruba groups, but it isn't nearly as strong as that which exist between Igbos. A colonial documents describes Igbos to live in isolated homesteads scattered accross the land, such that family A sees Family B as "strangers" and town A sees town B as a completely different group of people entirely.

Also, the Ika just like Ekpeye are Igboid languages and not just dialects of Igbo.... There is a difference. Ngwa, Etiti, Mbaise, Etc are dialects of Igbo. While their culture and arguably also the people, are a mix of their own Igboid cultures, and that of the Edoid people around them (More Bini influence around Ika, and more Urhobo influence along the Ukwuale axis), just like the Itsekiris are primarily South Eastern Yoruba, but have also mixed in with some Edo and Urhobo...... It is not a surprise that the acceptance of the igbo identity among the Aniomas grows stronger the closer one gets to Onitsha/The river Niger, and wanes further West and South, such that the scenario in places like Kwale and Agbor is completely different from what is obtainable in Asaba or Ibusa..... Not a co-incidence imo.

I can't say that it is unfortunate that they are not situated in the South East, since I am sure they are proud of their current location in Delta state of Nigeria-. But if they were, I am pretty sure their original identities would have been watered down by now into an Igbo one.... It would be the same thing if Itsekiris were located somewhere in Ogun state .... But these people are who they are, and people should just learn to accept it.

Itsekiri situation is not the same as the Aniomas. You are merely being mischievous and cunning like a typical Yoruba man, by adding the Itsekiris here.

The Itsekiris have always been a distinct group from Yorubas, there was never a time colonial or pre colonial Nigeria that Itsekiris were addressed as a branch of Yoruba.

The Itsekiri language is Edoid and not Yoruboid.

Yorubaland is not continuous with Itsekiriland.

In contrast, the Aniomas throughout the colonial and Post colonial Nigerian history has been recognized as a part of the Igbo, from Western Ibos, to Ika Ibos, to Bendel Igbos, to Delta Ibos and now Anioma, their names had evolved.

They speak an Igboid language.

Aniomaland is continuous with Imo and Anambra states.

Your Itsekiri comparison is flawed, treacherous, mischievous and totally out of place, to say the least.

The nearest Igbo equivalent of What Itsekiri is to Yoruba, is Opobo.

pazienza:


Itsekiri situation is not the same as the Aniomas. You are merely being mischievous and cunning like by adding the Itsekiris here.

The Itsekiris have always been a distinct group from Yorubas, there was never a time colonial or pre colonial Nigeria that Itsekiris were addressed as a branch of Yoruba.

The Itsekiri language is Edoid and not Yoruboid.


In contrast, the Aniomas throughout the colonial and Post colonial Nigerian history has been recognized as a part of the Igbo, from Western Ibos, to Ika Ibos, to Bendel Igbos, to Delta Ibos and now Anioma, their names had evolved.

They speak an Igboid language.


Your Itsekiri comparison is flawed, treacherous, mischievous and totally out of place, to say the list.

1- Itsekiri language is not Edoid
2- Itsekiris are not being addressed as Yoruba, because they are not.

The Itsekiri-Yoruba situation is just an example.
I can also cite the Edo-Urhobo situation. One could easily say the Urhobos are an Edo tribe- They share many affinities in language, culture and customs, but Urhobos are a distinct Edoid people with their own peculiarities as well.
Why is that so difficult for you to accept though, will be the lingering question here.

Afam4eva:

Give her a break. She lost the Miss Nairaland pageant owing to the doing of the Igbo organizers. She has the right to vent her anger in anyway possible.

Oh sweetlemon the smelly yoruba girl with incurable vaginal infections wanted to win Miss NL?. Bwahaha! Laugh wan make me slap miss oduduwa. lmao!

scholes0:


1- Itsekiri language is not Edoid
2- Itsekiris are not being addressed as Yoruba, because they are not.

The Itsekiri-Yoruba situation is just an example.
I can also cite the Edo-Urhobo situation. One could easily say the Urhobos are an Edo tribe- They share many affinities in language, culture and customs, but Urhobos are a distinct Edoid people with their own peculiarities as well.
Why is that so difficult for you to accept though, will be the lingering question here.

You guys keep throwing Edo and Urhobo around to compare the relationship between Anioma and Igbo without realizing that Edo and Urhobo don't have much between them. Can an Urhobo person understand 50% of what an Edo person and vice versa? Comparing Urhobo and Isoko makes better sense.

scholes0:


1- Itsekiri language is not Edoid
2- Itsekiris are not being addressed as Yoruba, because they are not.

The Itsekiri-Yoruba situation is just an example.
I can also cite the Edo-Urhobo situation. One could easily say the Urhobos are an Edo tribe- They share many affinities in language, culture and customs, but Urhobos are a distinct Edoid people with their own peculiarities as well.
Why is that so difficult for you to accept though, will be the lingering question here.

Granted. Itsekiri is a Yoruboid language, likewise Igala.

But the rest of my point stands.

Itsekiri has always maintained a distinct entity from Yorubas, likewise Igala..

No pre colonial or colonial documents recorded the Itsekiris as Yorubas.

Itsekiri lands is not continuous with Yorubaland.

Urhobo has always been distinct from Edo. I don't know what you are on about!

I was expecting you to bring the usual Urhobo- Isoko remix, but Urhobo and Edo? Guy you have lost it.
Even the colonials knew the differences.

CHM11:

Danny welbeck English or ghanian?
Is obama Kenyan or American?

Exactly. Alfa Biafran or Nigerian?

But that's beside the point.

pazienza:


Granted. Itsekiri is a Yoruboid language, likewise Igala.

But the rest of my point stands.

Itsekiri has always maintained a distinct entity from Yorubas, likewise Igala..

No pre colonial or colonial documents recorded the Itsekiris as Yorubas.

Itsekiri lands is not continuous with Yorubaland.

Urhobo has always been distinct from Edo. I don't know what you are on about!

I was expecting you to bring the usual Urhobo- Isoko remix, but Urhobo and Edo? Guy you have lost it.
Even the colonials knew the differences.

What would you say about this then.
Itsekiri and Urhobo clearly shown to be Yoruboid and Edoid respectively.



And who told you itsekiri land is not contigious with Yorubaland?
Jakpa in Warri North is just a stone from Mahin, Ondo state.
Also Warri North lga is territorially contagious with Ilaje local government area of Ondo state.

scholes0:


What would you say about this then.
Itsekiri and Urhobo clearly shown to be Yoruboid and Edoid respectively.



And who told you itsekiri land is not contigious with Yorubaland?
Jakpa in Warri North is just a stone from Mahin, Ondo state.
Also Warri North lga is territorially contagious with Ilaje local government area of Ondo state.

Where is the link to that map? I want to see the date.

The map was easy to throw Itsekiri into the Yoruboid bandwagon, but not Igala. Lol!

And then, are there not supposed to be Ijaws at the coastal parts of Ondo, the Apoi Ijaws and the Arogbo?

I want the link to this your map.

Afam4eva:

You guys keep throwing Edo and Urhobo around to compare the relationship between Anioma and Igbo without realizing that Edo and Urhobo don't have much between them. Can an Urhobo person understand 50% of what an Edo person and vice versa? Comparing Urhobo and Isoko makes better sense.

You should check Glottologue for more details. Urhobo, Etsako, Esan, Isoko are ALL EDOID. but all differ from BINI spoken in Oredo/Egor LGAs and environs to varying degrees.
Ethnologue classifies Ika as a different language within the Igboid family, others within that group include Ikwerre, Ogba, Etc
Okay I think we can both agree on something..... I think it is left to the Ikas themselves to decide where they stand on the issue. I am not an Ika person, and I am not sure if you are.

scholes0:


You should check Glottologue for more details. Urhobo, Etsako,Esan, Isoko are ALL EDOID. but all differ from BINI spoken in Oredo/Egor LGAs and environs to various degrees.
Ethnologue classifies Ika as a different language within the Igboid family, others within that group include Ikwerre, Ogba, Etc
Okay I think we can both agree on something..... I think it is left to the Ikas themselves to decide where they stand on the issue. I am not an Ika person, and I am not sure if you are.

My verdict has always been that it's their decision to make because all these Igboid ish doesn't even make sense because I don't know what makes Ngwa Igbo and not Ika for example or what is the criteria for classifying a group as Igboid rather than Igbo.

Afam4eva:

My verdict has always been that it's their decision to make because all these Igboid ish doesn't even make sense because I don't know what makes Ngwa Igbo and not Ika for example or what is the criteria for classifying a group as Igboid rather than Igbo.

I don't want to sound somehow.. but this point you have just raised brings the Issue of the authenticity of the entire contemporary IGBO single indivisible ethnic group thing to the fore. .... We can agree on the authenticity of people who lived around one another speaking a series of closely related languages in the same linguistic clade.... That is a glaring fact that can't be called into question. "Bia" is probably "Bia" all across.
The majority of these peoples got grouped together by the British into a geopolitical zone called Eastern Nigeria. This allowed them to band together and form a single distinct cultural identity, based on the kinship affinities or the concurrence of certain repeating traits which they observed in one another. Some like the Ikas and Ukwales of Abraka, Agbor, Kwale and environs have had it more difficult, dropping their aboriginal/native tags in acceptance and/or sacrifice for an Igbo one. they were once under Western region.... then Midwest..... then Delta State categorized under south-South. That was why I made mention of the fact that Politics is also a contributing factor.
Believe it or not, most groups in Ebonyi state today who proudly wear the Igbo tag would be less likely to do so, after spending 40 years in a different zone I.e being grouped with other "Calabar" group under an hypothetical Ogoja state for example, or being grouped with the Igedes and Idomas in the North-Central Zone like the Ikwerres in SS....
Igbos can best be described as a meta-ethnicity like the Akans of Ghana and CV (comprising Ashantes, Akuapems, Anyis, Fantes, Baoules etc) and not a proper ethnic group. The Ashantis of the centrally located Ashanti region of Ghana, are the group I would liken to the S/Eastern Igbos of today, while the Fantes, Anyis, Baoules etc are the other Indiginous 'Akan speaking" groups, who maintain their distinct cultural identities to varying degrees, for various reasons. I.e (Ikwerres, Ikas, Ekpeyes)
The naturally autonomous nature of many Igbo and Igbo-like groups can be "blamed" for this phenomena....... And it wouldn't be right to force an Igbo tag on someone or a group of people for that matter, who don't want to wear it.

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CHM11:


The bolded is a decision taken by a people . I think its good that their decision is respected.

The word 'igbo' was definitely coined out one day too. Today its respected as a tribe in general. So if the Ika say they are Ika people and not igbo people, I feel its best they are left alone as ika people.

There was a time Urhobo, Isoko, itsekiri, Etsako as different tribes never existed, they were all just clans in the benin kingdom with diFferent ways of speaning. Today they are identified for what they say they are.

Goodmorning bro.

when did the boy sunday oliseh become 'a people'?

scholes0:


Britain didn't create the Yoruba tag...... Also, the fact that many Large cosmopolitan Yoruba Urban settlements already existed long before colonization meant that a lot of Yorubas were already aware of most other Yoruba groups..... I am not saying there are no disparities between Yoruba groups, but it isn't nearly as strong as that which exist between Igbos. A colonial documents describes Igbos to live in isolated homesteads scattered accross the land, such that family A sees Family B as "strangers" and town A sees town B as a completely different group of people entirely.

Also, the Ika just like Ekpeye are Igboid languages and not just dialects of Igbo.... There is a difference. Ngwa, Etiti, Mbaise, Etc are dialects of Igbo. While their culture and arguably also the people, are a mix of their own Igboid cultures, and that of the Edoid people around them (More Bini influence around Ika, and more Urhobo influence along the Ukwale axis), just like the Itsekiris are primarily South Eastern Yoruba, but have also mixed in with some Edo and Urhobo...... It is not a surprise that the acceptance of the igbo identity among the Aniomas grows stronger the closer one gets to Onitsha/The river Niger, and wanes further West and South, such that the scenario in places like Kwale and Agbor is completely different from what is obtainable in Asaba or Ibusa..... Not a co-incidence imo.

I can't say that it is unfortunate that they are not situated in the South East, since I am sure they are proud of their current location in Delta state of Nigeria-. But if they were, I am pretty sure their original identities would have been watered down by now into an Igbo one.... It would be the same thing if Itsekiris were located somewhere in Ogun state .... But these people are who they are, and people should just learn to accept it.

pls never compare itshekiri with ika in terms of their respective relationships with yoruba and Igbo.

Itshekiri is an ethnic group. There has never been, is not, and will never be an argument about that.
If there should be any comparism then Itshekiri is more Edo and not yoruba.
In case of ika the problem is purely structural. When an ethnic group is lumped together with other groups as a state, in the course of their interaction, they are forced to build a new identity which is different from their original identity . You drop ur native language and use more of English or pidgin in your own state, you play down on your culture (including language) and begin to emphasize those aspects of your culture which unites you with your partner.

Before the formation of OAU, the North Africa never moved along with the rest of africa. Their identities were still shaped by their pre-colonial interaction with arabs and europe. In fact a moroccan king once stated that morocco 'is an african tree with European branches'
once OAU was formed, common economic and political challenges forced both the north and the rest of africa to embraced OAU as a means of combating the problem, thus reawakening pan africanism in them. They became interested in african politics, sports etc

by the time Anioma state succeeds, Anioma pple will be forced to interact in their original culture and language. This will re awaken the Igbo spirit in them and oblitrate the illusory edo origin.

pazienza:


Itsekiri situation is not the same as the Aniomas. You are merely being mischievous and cunning like a typical Yoruba man, by adding the Itsekiris here.

The Itsekiris have always been a distinct group from Yorubas, there was never a time colonial or pre colonial Nigeria that Itsekiris were addressed as a branch of Yoruba.

The Itsekiri language is Edoid and not Yoruboid.

Yorubaland is not continuous with Itsekiriland.

In contrast, the Aniomas throughout the colonial and Post colonial Nigerian history has been recognized as a part of the Igbo, from Western Ibos, to Ika Ibos, to Bendel Igbos, to Delta Ibos and now Anioma, their names had evolved.

They speak an Igboid language.

Aniomaland is continuous with Imo and Anambra states.

Your Itsekiri comparison is flawed, treacherous, mischievous and totally out of place, to say the least.

who is this fool, Am itsekiri and we re Yoroboid not Edoid, fool.

although we re distinct with d Yoruba because of Edo influence on us, but we still speak like the Yoruba

Unlike the Igbo d yorubas respected our uniqueness , Stop playing smart
#I see Yoruba as my brothers, hope that clear to u

Armaggedon:
pls never compare itshekiri with ika in terms of their respective relationships with yoruba and Igbo.

Itshekiri is an ethnic group. There has never been, is not, and will never be an argument about that.
If there should be any comparism then Itshekiri is more Edo and not yoruba.
In case of ika the problem is purely structural. When an ethnic group is lumped together with other groups as a state, in the course of their interaction, they are forced to build a new identity which is different from their original identity . You drop ur native language and use more of English or pidgin in your own state, you play down on your culture (including language) and begin to emphasize those aspects of your culture which unites you with your partner.

Before the formation of OAU, the North Africa never moved along with the rest of africa. Their identities were still shaped by their pre-colonial interaction with arabs and europe. In fact a moroccan king once stated that morocco 'is an african tree with European branches'
once OAU was formed, common economic and political challenges forced both the north and the rest of africa to embraced OAU as a means of combating the problem, thus reawakening pan africanism in them. They became interested in african politics, sports etc

by the time Anioma state succeeds, Anioma pple will be forced to interact in their original culture and language. This will re awaken the Igbo spirit in them and oblitrate the illusory edo origin.

Igbo man stop dragging Itsekiri into ur comments. Let us b,
d guy u quoted never said we re Yoruba, We share same culture with Edo, and same almost same language with Ilaje and Ijebu

#Igbo trying so hard to make us 8 Yoruba, SMH.
Outta thread

.

Goodboiyy:


who is this fool, Am itsekiri and we re Yoroboid not Edoid, fool.

although we re distinct with d Yoruba because of Edo influence on us, but we still speak like the Yoruba

Unlike the Igbo d yorubas respected our uniqueness , Stop playing smart
#I see Yoruba as my brothers, hope that clear to u

A mistake that had since been corrected. Itsekiri language is Yoruboid, but so too is Igala.

What remains true is that Igala and Itsekiri had remained distinct from Yoruba tag from the pre colonial era, through to the Colonial era, and into the post independence Nigeria.


We can't say the same of Anioma, that was already established as Western Igboland through the colonial era, till 1970.

Ndiigbo continues to respect the uniqueness of the Kele people in Ebonyi!

And oh! Don't use foul language on me again. Be sure I will respond in kind, if you do it again.

pazienza:


Granted. Itsekiri is a Yoruboid language, likewise Igala.

But the rest of my point stands.

Itsekiri has always maintained a distinct entity from Yorubas, likewise Igala..

No pre colonial or colonial documents recorded the Itsekiris as Yorubas.

Itsekiri lands is not continuous with Yorubaland.

Urhobo has always been distinct from Edo. I don't know what you are on about!

I was expecting you to bring the usual Urhobo- Isoko remix, but Urhobo and Edo? Guy you have lost it.
Even the colonials knew the differences.

Am half urhobo and I can tell you we gat alot of thing common with Edo. What game re u Igbo trying to play ?.

Wen it comes to culture we refer to Edo, So Igbo man wat distinct about Urhobo and Edo ?

Clown

Goodboiyy:


Igbo man stop dragging Itsekiri into ur comments. Let us b,
d guy u quoted never said we re Yoruba, We share same culture with Edo, and same almost same language with Ilaje and Ijebu

#Igbo trying so hard to make us 8 Yoruba, SMH.
Outta thread

It was the Yoruba man Scholes0 that dragged Itsekiri into this argument.

In the Igbo world, Itsekiri is insignificant and we hardly know you lots exists. Blame the Yoruba man that dragged you lots here, but failed to drag Igala( another Yoruboid group), obviously Itsekiri is of more economic importance than Igala. *grins*

Goodboiyy:


Igbo man stop dragging Itsekiri into ur comments. Let us b,
d guy u quoted never said we re Yoruba, We share same culture with Edo, and same almost same language with Ilaje and Ijebu

#Igbo trying so hard to make us 8 Yoruba, SMH.
Outta thread

yoloba maggot!
Cameleonic coward like you.
Become a yoloba for once and stop faking identity.

pazienza:


A mistake that had since been corrected. Itsekiri language is Yoruboid, but so is Igala.

What remains true is that Igala and Itsekiri had remained distinct from Yoruba tag from the pre colonial era, through to the Colonial era, and into the post independence Nigeria.


We can't say the same of Anioma, that was already established as Western Igboland through the colonial era, till 1970.

Ndiigbo continues to respect the uniqueness of the Kele people in Ebonyi!

And oh! Don't use foul language on me again. Be sure I will respond in kind, if you do it again.

Sorry about that,

Think you should make research b4 rushing to comment, The present day itsekiri is more connected to Yoruba than Edo, that y u see Our Olu represented in all the meeting in Ibandan cous we think we av so many things in common. and some of my tribe men re mistaken to b from Yoruba like, Omawunmi, O. femi and co.

as 4 d Anioma, am from delta, The Asaba axis sees themselves as Pure Igbo y those from Ubiarukwu see themselves distinct from Igbo, that were the problem is all coming from, if i may ask which side is Oliseh from ?

Goodboiyy:


Am half urhobo and I can tell you we gat alot of thing common with Edo. What game re u Igbo trying to play ?.

Wen it comes to culture we refer to Edo, So Igbo man wat distinct about Urhobo and Edo ?

Clown

There is no ethnic group called Edo. Edo is a language group.

Are you equating Bini to Edo? Bini is but a member of Edo, just like Esan.

Edo is more like a collective name.
Atleast that's my understanding of the term.

Armaggedon:
[s]yoloba maggot! Cameleonic coward like you. Become a yoloba for once and stop faking identity.[s]

if am from Yoruba I will b proud of It. So free free, tag me a Yoruba boy, I will b proud

Goodboiyy:


Sorry about that,

Think you should make research b4 rushing to comment, The present day itsekiri is more connected to Yoruba than Edo, that y u see Our Olu represented in all the meeting in Ibandan cous we think we av so many things in common. and some of my tribe men re mistaken to b from Yoruba like, Omawunmi, O. femi and co.

as 4 d Anioma, am from delta, The Asaba axis sees themselves as Pure Igbo y those from Ubiarukwu see themselves distinct from Igbo, that were the problem is all coming from, if i may ask which side is Oliseh from ?

Oliseh is from Abavo in Ika, while his maternal home is Ebedei in Ukwuani, he is a combination of two parts of Anioma with strong Igbophobic nature.

But as an exposed and educated individual who had travelled round the world, one would expect better of Oliseh.