They were killing each other before the eoropeans came.

But, we would have faired better if we had been left alone in our "un-civilized" way of life!

It is funny when we blame europeans 4 our misfortunes.

Your Christian brother just did by calling them "ungodly."

We fought for our independence and having gotten it since 1960, who do we blame for where we are today? Our military leaders? Mind you ...they are not Europeans

My answer is: Religious hypocrites whose only concerns are why should Nigeria join OIC, but never thought about the benefits of OIC economically.

Ajisafe:

They were killing each other before the eoropeans came.

But, we would have faired better if we had been left alone in our "un-civilized" way of life!

So true, all Christian Churches, both Catholic and Protestant have been an instrument of oppression since the establishment of the church. The use of Christianity in subjugating people was already well perfected before it was used in Africa by the colonials.

Ajisafe:

It is funny when we blame europeans 4 our misfortunes.

Your Christian brother just did by calling them "ungodly."

The initial conditions for Africa's misfortunes have certainly been caused by Europeans. All was justified with the Bible in their hands, e.g. the colonisation of Congo was carried out under 2 pretexts: fighting Arab slave traders (Tipu Tip) and the Christening of Congo.

Rightly so, my European brother!

@ajisafe
you've made some valid points but have to disgree with your last statement
My answer is: Religious hypocrites whose only concerns are why should Nigeria join OIC, but never thought about the benefits of OIC economically.

Regardless of the benefits i don't support the Nigerian government joining any religious body (islamic, christain or traditional). Religion should continue to be a personal thing.

You're right, my brother.

God is the God of the nations. He had these things all planned out. He is not supprised at all. This civilization we have so far gotten is not a suprise to Him at all...in fact, it was his plan and working. So rather than cast blames here and there, let us think of the way forward.

@donnie
God is the God of the nations. He had these things all planned out. He is not supprised at all. This civilization we have so far gotten is not a suprise to Him at all...in fact, it was his plan and working.

I'm a bit confused, you've just contradicted yourself, on one hand it's all God's plan then you say 'So rather than cast blames here and there, let us think of the way forward.'

since it's God plan for us to be this way why bother doing anything then

Because we know His will. We His children are partners together with Him.

I know God's will too as he created me and this is not what he told me 

Do you?

You do not know God's will just because He created you. Some were created, others were born of Him.

To know his will, you must have a living relationship and fellowship with Him. His Word is His will. His words are His thoughts clothed in vocabulary.

Mate, i'm cracking up here ROFL

Please explain to me how Some were created, others were born of Him or are you implying that God discriminates. Aren't we all his children regardless of our faith..

Ajisafe where u dey now i'm sooo missing your input here 

@ Ijebuman,
In fact, I pity you, my brother. But "opolo ni t'a ba de bi iru ka fo o," the frog said it'd be better if no questions are asked concerning his being tail-less."

john. 1:12-13:
But as many as received him(Jesus), to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

James 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.(King James Ver.)

Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures(New Int. Ver.)

1pet. 1:23
You have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God.

donnie:

You do not know God's will just because He created you. Some were created, others were born of Him.

To know his will, you must have a living relationship and fellowship with Him. His Word is His will. His words are His thoughts clothed in vocabulary.

Out of curiosity, were you created by God or were you born of him? or are we speaking parables here?

From your message inserted above, you seem to imply that you have a superior relationship with God, may I ask you on what tenet(s) you justify this? What gives you the impression that Ijebuman is ignorant of God's will?

When answering please bear in mind that I have not disclosed my religion, as it is rather irrelevant. It would be helpfull if you give an objective answer which is devoid of any sentiment whatsoever.

Thanks.

let him speak 4 himself.

I have not responded as there's nothing to respond to, all i'm seeing is quotes from the bible been thrown around. If i wanted quotes from the Bible, i have one i can read and make my own interpretations myself if i chose to.

Time and time again people use selective quotes from the Bible to suit their own agenda.

If you read your bible properly with faith in your heart, you will understand it fully.

nferyn (m) Belgium

Re: Nigeria and Its Church Phenomenom
« #8 on: October 26, 2005, 09:47 PM »

Formal, organized religions are forming a substitute for thinking. People don't like to think, especially when they're in a bad situation. A morality born out of experience and philosophy is much harder to attain than just following the rules that one or another Christian sect offers. It's instant, fast-food righteousness., at the small price of some tithes or offerings.

On top of that the peer pressure in a religious society can be overwhelming, especially when the righteous church-goers equate religion with morality and claim/assume that someone that is not religious cannot possibly be a good person.

Also take into account that Christianity is a religion of salvation that promises eternal life in heaven to the faithful. The rules you have to follow as a Christian also have less impact on your everyday life in comparison with e.g. Islam.

All in all a very attractive offer for most people.

You can't be mre right than that. Agree fully.

I see three main problems

a. "Modernism" or "liberal" Christianity: Assume that historic Christianity can’t stand up to modern objections, but Christianity can be reworked into something that does. This is basically a late 19th-century movement but still has plenty of advocates, e.g., Bishop Spong, Why Christianity Must Change or Die, and many popular preachers (esp. in US).

b. Anti-intellectualism: Simply reject modern science and scholarship; "evolution is bunk" (maybe astronomy is bunk too); "all you need is your Bible."
This approach leaves us entirely unable to communicate with the modern world. This also dishonors God by refusing to use the minds and the knowledge He has given us.

c. "Christianity-in-a-bubble": Keep your faith separate from the rest of your intellectual life. This approach is associated with neo-orthodox theologians such as Karl Barth who revolted against modernism by asserting (correctly) that the Gospel does not make sense unless you accept it as the whole package.

Unfortunately, neo-orthodoxy is often just anti-intellectualism with a college degree. You still end up with a compartmentalized mind, assuming that faith is not rationally explainable or justifiable. Thus your faith does not connect with anything outside it. This movement has had a strong effect on evangelical churches.

Remember that the term "leap of faith" comes from an existentialist philosopher (Kierkegaard), not the Bible; and "ya gotta believe" is the motto Peter Pan, not Jesus.

I believe that Truth does not conflict with truth: We should not be afraid of seeking knowledge from any legitimate source (science, archeology, whatever).

@ chrisd
We should go to a pub someday when I'm over in London

no WE HAVE NOT HEARD ENOUGH! THERE SHOULD BE OUTRAGE AT THESE SO-CALLED MINITERS WHO LULL THE PEOPLE ASLEEP WITH FALSE HOPE!

Crap!

@ ijebuman
wats your problem, i think its clear that d thread is about nigeria and its church phenom, what has that got to do with d north and people fighting in d name of religion, please try get your point strait ok and its really not necessary 4u 2 contribute if u don't v anything reasonable to say.

ul alwais draw wrong interpretations, no mata how hard u try so let those who want to throw away bible quotations do so freely, so pple like u can humbly take them 4 beta use, stop foolin around here, its not needed,

absolute waste of space& time

@Donnie! Thanks for you contribution to this thread and your view. They are my thots exactly! When will we stop talking about Pastors, Churches and our country in the negatives? Why can't we just be focused at improving ourselves to be better individuals rather than name calling and sorts? These topics have been overflogged and I think we should move on to better things that will educate and enlighten us rather than castigation of one religion or the other. Someone said here that its been long they prayed for this country, well, that might be you but as for me and my church, we pray for this country all the time and its not a new prayer point, it has always been. Christianity as I know it is a personal race and no one forces you to do what you don't want to do. If they tell you to bring TVs or whatever and you don't get convinced in your spirit to do it, no one will force you to. If you are not convinced about a man of God, then change church. Simple. Stop airing dirty linings here folks. We can do better than that. Run your race, thats whats important.

@Donnie! Thanks for you contribution to this thread and your view. They are my thots exactly! When will we stop talking about Pastors, Churches and our country in the negatives? Why can't we just be focused at improving ourselves to be better individuals rather than name calling and sorts? These topics have been overflogged and I think we should move on to better things that will educate and enlighten us rather than castigation of one religion or the other. Someone said here that its been long they prayed for this country, well, that might be you but as for me and my church, we pray for this country all the time and its not a new prayer point, it has always been. Christianity as I know it is a personal race and no one forces you to do what you don't want to do. If they tell you to bring TVs or whatever and you don't get convinced in your spirit to do it, no one will force you to. If you are not convinced about a man of God, then change church. Simple. Stop airing dirty linings here folks. We can do better than that. Run your race, thats whats important.

@Donnie! Thanks for you contribution to this thread and your view. They are my thots exactly! When will we stop talking about Pastors, Churches and our country in the negatives? Why can't we just be focused at improving ourselves to be better individuals rather than name calling and sorts? These topics have been overflogged and I think we should move on to better things that will educate and enlighten us rather than castigation of one religion or the other. Someone said here that its been long they prayed for this country, well, that might be you but as for me and my church, we pray for this country all the time and its not a new prayer point, it has always been. Christianity as I know it is a personal race and no one forces you to do what you don't want to do. If they tell you to bring TVs or whatever and you don't get convinced in your spirit to do it, no one will force you to. If you are not convinced about a man of God, then change church. Simple. Stop airing dirty linings here folks. We can do better than that. Run your race, thats whats important.