I might sound like an ******** but I really can't understand Nigerians are so greedy!

OK I recently saw a program on the BBC about Nigeria and its church phenomenon. A BBC journalist had to travel to Nigeria to investigate because according to the statistics Nigeria has the highest number of churches per square meter! In lay mans terms it means churches standing side by side with each other in Nigeria alone.

As the journalist was in Lagos, he witnessed people bringing offerings to the church which included T.V sets, radios, freezers and he kept on wondering what god would to with a TV set!

As strange as it sounds, if Nigeria has that much churches, how come Nigeria is still the most corrupt country in the world? I mean how come 99% of the people that attend such churches are only asking God for one thing, to get rich and buy that big car! How come all the pastors are rich?

If you doubt me ask yourself a simple question "when was the last time i prayed for world peace, or for Nigeria or for the less privileged we see everyday on our streets." Then you will know what problem we Nigerians have. They have even extended it abroad!

My wish is that EFCC would someday investigate all the Pentecostal churches and their pastors accounts cus they are really ripping us off. What do you guys think?

Don't get me wrong I do believe in God and I'm a Christian.

effects8000:
As strange as it sounds, if Nigeria has that much churches, how come Nigeria is still the most corrupt country in the world?

If you doubt me ask yourself a simple question "when was the last time i prayed for world peace, or for Nigeria or for the less privileged we see everyday on our streets."

they are really ripping us off [churches]

Firstly, humans are rational beings. Nobody can force morality down your throat. The fact that people attend churches doesn't automatically make them good people. The problem is not with christianity but with the 'church goers'.

I must at this juncture ask why the correlation has been placed between christianity and crime. Those who propose this theory unconsciously talk about Christianity as if its the only religion in Nigeria. We have so many others: Islam (ubiquitous), Ecks, AMORC, Grail messengers, etc. Are those ones saints?

Secondly, as regards your prayer point. We do that regularly collectively (in church) and individually. Thats why we are christian- salt of the world (preservation). Not every church in Nigeria is fake and not every christian is gullible.

Thirdly, there is no case of ripping off. It becaomes a rip off if you were promised sumthing for a fee and after payment you never recieved 'exactly' what you were promised. This is not the case in most churches. Inasmuch as I do not vouch for any pastors (i'm aware there are fakes) I don't know of any that force you to pay. Yo give freely. If they are gullible to keep asking unecessarily and you keep giving (against your will) then you're foolish as well. There is no case of rip-off.

It becaomes a rip off if you were promised sumthing for a fee and after payment you never recieved 'exactly' what you were promised.

Nigerian Pastors promise prosperity to those who give and pay tithes, but many such Nigerians are still poor. Do the churches refund their money when it is discovered that their tithes have not "opened the gates of heaven" as promised?

I don't know of any that force you to pay. You give freely.

Does the fact that a scammer's victim has willingly sent his money make it any less a scam?

Seun:

Nigerian Pastors promise prosperity to those who give and pay tithes, but many such Nigerians are still poor. Do the churches refund their money when it is discovered that their tithes have not "opened the gates of heaven" as promised?
Does the fact that a scammer's victim has willingly sent his money make it any less a scam?

I do pay tithe and I'm blessed. It depends on the pastor. Some preach the message in its entirety and it works. While some don't get richer, a whole lot get blessed and testify to it. Tithinn isnt necessary payin to ur pastor. Its anyway u support the kingdom. Its connect u to heaven but u get tyhe blessing usually through ur work. U can sell bread and still become rich.

Moreover i don't talk for pastors. I talk for christians because i really don't know what the pastor preach. We could have 3 diff teachers for mathematics.  1 comes into the class and we r confused. the other comes in, teaches well and we grasp it. it same topic but 1 teacher is better than the other. The principle work but it depends on how its taught.

The victim didnt pick up the scammer to just 'bless' him willingly. There was a 'transaction' involved. This is totally different from donations which is obtainable in most churches.

from all i have read that you have written so far from layi, i am of the mind you are a pastor or related to a pastor. this must be the reason why you feel blessed by the mugs that donate to you. religion is all in the mind. what people in nigeria need is morality and fairness to their fellow human being. not much to ask in this world.

So many Nigerians do not comprehend the extent of religious madness in Nigeria and will not unless they have lived in other countries even in west africa. People from other places are amazed at the number of churches in nigeria. Nigeria is by far the worlds most religious country, even more than all islamic countries. The irony is that in other countries things seem to function, or rather function better than things in nigeria. The average pastor in nigeria is greedy and so are the majority of the attendees. Everybody wants to hear automatic riches. Wake up folks, its only through hard work and time u can succed, unless u r a pastor and u r ripping people off.

@balogun
I am not a pastor. The only pastor closest to me is a distant relative. We've not seen each other in 4 years now.
I am a christian anyway.

i think the church phenomenon is as a result of our corrupt values as a people.

Formal, organized religions are forming a substitute for thinking. People don't like to think, especially when they're in a bad situation. A morality born out of experience and philosophy is much harder to attain than just following the rules that one or another Christian sect offers. It's instant, fast-food righteousness., at the small price of some tithes or offerings.

On top of that the peer pressure in a religious society can be overwhelming, especially when the righteous church-goers equate religion with morality and claim/assume that someone that is not religious cannot possibly be a good person.

Also take into account that Christianity is a religion of salvation that promises eternal life in heaven to the faithful. The rules you have to follow as a Christian also have less impact on your everyday life in comparison with e.g. Islam.

All in all a very attractive offer for most people.

@effects8000,
Honestly, churches don plenty i know but .............

Is too many Churches the problem of nigeria


@ Layi - you have spoken well.

[Nigerian Pastors promise prosperity to those who give and pay tithes, but many such Nigerians are still poor. Do the churches refund their money when it is discovered that their tithes have not "opened the gates of heaven" as promised?quote]

[/quote]

Are Nigerians Stupid Common sense tells you that if you try something and it doesnt work for you, you drop it and try something else. Pastors do not force people to pay thithes or offerrings. Any pastor who trys to scam the poor will have God himself to answer to.


[quote][If you doubt me ask yourself a simple question "when was the last time i prayed for world peace, or for Nigeria or for the less privileged we see everyday on our streets." Then you will know what problem we Nigerians have. They have even extended it abroad!/quote]

I pray for Nigeria. My church prays for Nigeria too........infact every sunday. I dont have to wait till i get to church b4 i pray for nigeria. People should stop blaming the church for the wreckless behaviour of individuals.There are mixed congregation in churches.

Layi you do feel blessed by the people that gives you those monies because you are a pastor or related to one so you don't have to beg for daily bread.
But do you know that those people that give you those funds because they are desperate?
What ever happened to prayer for free?? Do pastors always have to bless or pray for people and then ask for
money later??

Oh Nigerians, when will you learn to lift your nation up?!

steamy hotta hotta

What kind of Nonsense is this?

Mr Seun, is there no way you can check the topics that are being put up for discussion?
It is like the latest trend now is  people coming up with insults for the church, its ministers or our nation. Please we have heard enough of this kind of talk.

Do you need to wait for a  reporter from outide Nigeria to tell you what going on in your country?

The bible tells us that to the pure in heart, all things are pure. When all you can see is evil and greed and corruption and witchcraft, the problem is with you and not with the church or our country!

How many posts have we seen here, in praise of some good thing in the church or in our country?

Let me quote you,

"If you doubt me ask yourself a simple question "when was the last time i prayed for world peace, or for Nigeria or for the less privileged we see everyday on our streets." Then you will know what problem we Nigerians have. They have even extended it abroad!"

You or your church may not be involved in praying for your country but let me tell you, you are on your own in this matter. Throughout the month of October our entire ministry was involved in praying and fasting daily for our nation and even held all night prayer services for our country.

On 21st and 22nd of October we spent several hours praying for our nation and its leaders during the National youth conference. We lifted our country up and encouraged the young people to believe in themselves, their nation and their future.

You say, "My wish is that EFCC would someday investigate all the Pentecostal churches and their pastors accounts cus they are really ripping us off.  What do you guys think?"

This is complete nonsense! Did those who gave money say they gave the pastor, or God? Greed is your problem. Even if they are ripping people off, you are not involved so there is no need for the 'us' . Your kind never give more than 20 naira in church so it is not your money that is making pastors rich!

Do you know what the churches are doing for the nation? Our ministry runs an inner-city mission school where several children are taken off the streets, fed, clothed and given free education and housing. Prostitutes and drug addicts are taken off the streets and rehabilitatted through this inner city mission. Many are given money to start businesses. Their lives are given new meaning.

"Don't get me wrong I do believe in God and I'm a Christian"

You are not a Christain if you enjoy bringing disgrace to the Name of the Lord.

Please, rather than say what is wrong about our nation, let us see you do something about it...let us see you lift somone up so that we will not think that all you have are mere words.

It is very easy to criticize and destroy, anyone can do that...but not many are builders!

[Firstly, humans are rational beings.  Nobody can force morality down your throat.  The fact that people attend churches doesn't automatically make them good people.  The problem is not with christianity but with the 'church goers'. ]

@ layi, i quite agree with u, u can only force a horse to the stream but u can't force it to drink water. If we all in Nigeria decide to change the n there would be a change.
@effects8000, layi says he's not a pastor! as he said earlier, no pastor "forces" you to bring money to him! its a "free will" thing! you have a choice to be a blessing to them or just hold on to your money.

@donnie, pls calm down n take it easy ok?

Seun, what did i say? Hotta Hotta is no reason for u to take my post away menn.

Anyway, @ effect80000, i pay my thithe and if my church decides to use it to save kids feed the widow and all.
Then i need to increase my offerings too

@ donnie

Why the anger?

And who are you to judge others?

donnie:

What kind of Nonsense is this?

Mr Seun, is there no way you can check the topics that are being put up for discussion?
It is like the latest trend now is people coming up with insults for the church, its ministers or our nation. Please we have heard enough of this kind of talk.

Do you want to impose censorship here?

I have not seen any insults here, you're seeing ghosts.

Do you honestly believe that because you claim to be speaking in God's name that you are beyond criticism or that you're more divine than the common people (this is a general you, not you personally)?

I have seen insults but i hav to ignore it.

Here's one...He attacked my person.

Balogun:

from all i have read that you have written so far from layi, i am of the mind you are a pastor or related to a pastor. this must be the reason why you feel blessed by the mugs that donate to you. ..........

Nferyn ..the word mugu there means i'm a scammer.
I explained my stance

layi:

@balogun
I am not a pastor. The only pastor closest to me is a distant relative. We've not seen each other in 4 years now.
I am a christian anyway.

Yet Some still said this ............

effects8000:

Layi you do feel blessed by the people that gives you those monies because you are a pastor or related to one so you don't have to beg for daily bread.
But do you know that those people that give you those funds because they are desperate?
What ever happened to prayer for free?? Do pastors always have to bless or pray for people and then ask for
money later??

...that insulted me.

But i dont care. Its all good.

layi:

I have seen insults but i hav to ignore it.

Here's one...He attacked my person.Nferyn ..the word mugu there means i'm a scammer.
I explained my stance
Yet Some still said this ............

...that insulted me.

But i don't care. Its all good.

Hi Layi,

I think you're a bit too sensitive here. The first poster was making unsubstantiated assumptions about you, and drawing conclusions from it, but it wasn't really insulting. the second one isn't even close to insulting, but if I were in your place I would probably feel insulted as well.

The criticism that was expressed was explicitely targetted to those that abuse their religious stance for personal gain, not all of the pastors or churches

The Church is Increasing in strength and influence and there's nothing the devil, the antichrist, nor his spokesmen can do about it!

The church lawyer be wise now donnie

donnie:

The Church is Increasing in strength and influence and there's nothing the devil, the antichrist, nor his spokesmen can do about it!

What do you mean by that?

OK i have to apologize to layi for pushing his buttons. Be as Nigerians we all need to believe that there are alot of scam churches out there and authorities need to do something about it. Special thanks to you all that contributed.

Are there too many churches in Nigeria?, Are Nigerian Pastors scammers?, Why do we have so much corruption in the midst of so many churches? .... you can go on and on.
Has the Church really failed as being touted?


As we share views and trade blames and accusations let us remember the multitude of lives that have been permanently altered for good by God through the Churches. I am a classic example.
If not for God, through the Church, I would have been a terrorist leader today. Maybe some people in this forum would not have been alive because I would have blown up a lot of things and maybe they would have been affected but God, through the church saved me. I was so hurt by the injustice metted out on my people by the Nigerian state that NOBODY under the sun could have stopped us.


I don't give a damn about what a British journalist says, their ungodly society that turns churches to pubs, encourages divorce and promotes an unjust war is not worth copying in this regard. They should go and tackle Islam that is ravaging their soceity, afterall we have tackled ours

The Nigeria we see today would have been billions of times worse if it were not for the Church.

Most of the positive defining Characteristics that we see in Nigerians today(positive outlook in the face of ovbious disadvantages, resilience, hardwork etc) are the imprints that the Church has left on the society.

I close with a few questions.
1. Where else would have been better for the millions that flock to redeemed camp and other churches every friday night. ....Overnight dancing halls? Armed robbery gangs? Occultic temples? watching ponographic movies?
2. In a failed state like ours, what would you do with 60 million youths?.... leave them to learn all their moral lessons from the internet and failed schools? or allow them to have good moral education in Church, if they choose to?
A society that is about to crumble always starts by rejecting God... go check out the history books.

I submit that we do not yet have enough Churches neither do we have enough preachers.
That some wolves have come in sheep clothing does not in any way remove the need for the the Church.

There are good, very good churches with righteous and honest Pastors who are actually obeying God's will and changing lives. But there are several other bad ones whose primary objective is to make cool cash. I've attended several churches before so I know what I'm saying. I cannot begin to give account of my experiences in some churches because this thread will be overfilled. Take it or leave it, a greater percentage of Nigerian Pastors are what someone calls "Jeun-Jeun" Pastors...meaning Pastors who are there to "eat" money so to say.

I don't give a damn about what a British journalist says, their ungodly society that turns churches to pubs, encourages divorce and promotes an unjust war is not worth copying in this regard.

@ Owo, it seems as if you didn't know your history at all; the same British people you now refer to as "ungodly" brought your Christianity to you in Nigeria, and you took and gulped it hook, line, and sinker!

They should go and tackle Islam that is ravaging their soceity, afterall we have tackled ours

I don't think the discussion is about Islam. This is how you people start ugly stuff then you'll be quick to blame it on Muslims. Talk about the immorality of your pastors who are stealing their flocks' money to by Mercedes Benzes, limousines, and helicopters while the lot of their followers wallow in poverty. And when these poverty-stricken "church-goers" ask why their prayers have not been answered, you and other deceived lots will say: "they are not true believers; that's why they've not been touched by the 'holy ghost.'" Please, wake up, brother.

Owo,

May God bless you. It was God's plan to bring the gospel to us through the Europeans bc He knew  they will need us at this moment in time when they feel they have no more use for God. Like you said , their churches were turned to shopping malls and casinos. But thanks be to God for the Africans , particularly Nigerians who are re-evangelising that continent once again.

They are buying back those buildings and whereas some years ago, the biggest churches in Europe had only about 1000 members, the story is beggining to change as God is doing a new thing through the missionaries He is sending to remind them of the God they once knew.

We gulped the gospel they brought to us and we are better off for it! ...thank you.

We gulped the gospel they brought to us and we are better off for it!

By what standard? Tell us, please.

donnie:

May God bless you. It was God's plan to bring the gospel to us through the Europeans bc <snip>

I suppose it was also God's plan for the Europeans to colonise us and destroy our social fabric and to take us as slaves to the Americas.

donnie:

We gulped the gospel they brought to us and we are better off for it! ...thank you.

Better for it in what way, that people of the same colour and language who have lived together for hundreds of years are killing each other everyday in the name of religion (the regular religious riots in Northern Nigeria)

@ Ijebuman, "a dara fun e," my brother. That's exactly my point!

They were killing each other before the eoropeans came.

It is funny when we blame europeans 4 our misfortunes.

The Europeans never went into the bush to catch slaves. It was the Africans themselves that caught these slaves and handed them over to the Europeans in exchange for fabrics, gin or whatever they wanted from these white folks.

We fought for our independence and having gotten it since 1960, who do we blame for where we are today? Our military leaders? Mind you ...they are not Europeans.