WesleyanA:

recently, a 9 year old's letter in response to an article in the NYtimes was acknowledged, reviewed and printed.
now that's something i've never seen before.
Davidylan (if he owned NYtimes, God forbid. lol) would have discarded that letter at first sight.

Nah, it would depend on the quality of the letter written by the 9yr old. Please read bari_kade's response to your ignorant ramblings about a relationship you know next to nothing about but insist on posting irrelevancies and the outright ridiculous on!

Weslayan let's read that scripture in context.

[b]1Cr 14:29   Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge.
1Cr 14:30   But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent.
1Cr 14:31   For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
1Cr 14:32   And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Cr 14:33   For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
1Cr 14:34   Let your* women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.
1Cr 14:35   And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.
1Cr 14:36   Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached?
1Cr 14:37   If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
1Cr 14:38   But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.*
1Cr 14:39   Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
1Cr 14:40   Let all things be done decently and in order.   [/b]

It doesn't even take one to be Holy Ghost filled to realise that Paul was writing to a very disorderly Church,admonishing them in conduct while in the church.
Only God knows how rowdy these women were and the chaos the Church was experiencing.

The last verse is the clincher.

No Church that I know anywhere on earth forbids women from speaking.
Women preach,teach bible study,sing,lead church groups,baptize,lay hands in all  churches that I know.
Give me an example of a church that forbids a woman from speaking based on this verse
where women are banned from speaking,
I did not say being ordained,speaking is the key word here.Christians realize to whom and for what purpose that command came,read the above verses again and if you cannot tell me one bible beieving church that a woman has never been allowed to speak,then you have no case.

bari_kade:

@WeslayanA,

I will not pretend knowledge that I don't yet have; however, the one funny thing I find people always doing is that they quote Judaistic laws to buttress their arguments against Christianity. There is no such law as Deut.22:29 passed onto Christians in the NT, and perhaps the reason for this is found in I Tim. 1:8-11 -

"⁸But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; ⁹Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, ¹⁰For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind (homosexuals), for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; ¹¹According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust."

I believe that the OT helps us understand where we are coming from so that we can better appreciate the New Covenant in Jesus Christ. Unless anyone can successfully prove that Christians are under the Mosaic Law when the Bible clearly says we are NOT, then it makes me wonder why people want to hold Christians accountable to what God doesn't hold them accountable to.

Indeed, there are so many young people who have rare gifts of insight - and though I, for one, may not agree with their ideas or persuasions, it really won't hurt to acknowledge the scholarship and insight of such rare minds. I think I've come a long way to changing some of my previously held concepts (and may I add, biases) after having been exposed to a wider sphere to see things first hand.

Blessings.

I agree with you but

some Christians like to select what they feel like from the Old Testament. or "Select Practice" as i'll like to call it.
Not that there is anything wrong with it.
The world and people's perceptives have changed
and many of the things don't apply to us

following every word of the bible (OT and NT) will only lead to the problems Muslims are having right now.


"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (the Old Testament) or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law (the Old Testament) until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"

Yeah polygamy in the bible might be more prominent in the Old Testament and those rules can be "abolished" i guess. lol
but the first passage I quoted in my previous post is from the New Testament (Corinthians). I don't know how one will defend that misogynistic verse.
Many churches of nowadays, however,allow women to preach in contradiction to what that verse says. Again, this has to do with the world changing (or God's plans for change?) which is good.

The Bible is still the Bible nevertheless. If you claim the OT laws to be void, why aren't the OT ten commandments void? How come those can still be used to justify christian assertions even though Jesus already 'replaced it' with the ultimate commandment.


Again, I'm not trying to be all anti-bible here. I'm only trying to create a parallel on this issue with the quran.
There are growing numbers of Islamic feminists that are doing this same thing of highlighting the gender equality of the quran and ignoring the biased ones.

But when it comes to faith, I always go by what the Bible says than what opinions people express - and there again, I should not expect everyone to accept my views; for afterall, they're just mine.

I respect you for that.

Jesus was speaking.


Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
King James Version 1611, 1769


NKJV - [/color][color=#990000]Mat 5:17 - "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson


NLT - Mat 5:17 - "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to fulfill them.
New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust


NIV - Mat 5:17 - “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society


ESV - Mat 5:17 - “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

The Holy Bible, English Standard Version [/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][color=#990000][/color]© 2001 Crossway Bibles


NASB - Mat 5:17 - "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation


RSV - Mat 5:17 - "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.
Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.


ASV - Mat 5:17 - Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
American Standard Version 1901 Info


Young - Mat 5:17 - `Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets -- I did not come to throw down, but to fulfill;
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info


Darby - Mat 5:17 - Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfil.
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info


Webster - Mat 5:17 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Noah Webster Version 1833 Info


HNV - Mat 5:17 - "Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info


Vulgate - Mat 5:17 - nolite putare quoniam veni solvere legem aut prophetas non veni solvere sed adimplere
Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info


Above are all the popular translations of that scripture for clarity.


Christ is a total fulfillment of that law.
In him are all the promises fulfilled because the blood of bulls and rams cannot save and the keeping of laws cannot save.
As a Christian those laws are written in your heart and you do God's will not as keeping a law but His sprit is your teacher.
That verse does not say you keep old testament laws.
There are tons of scriptures regarding the better covenant but I'll just give one.

Hbr 7:18   For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
Hbr 7:19   for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

It doesn't even take one to be Holy Ghost filled to realise that Paul was writing to a very disorderly Church,admonishing them in conduct while in the church.[b]
Only God knows how rowdy these women were [/b]and the chaos the Church was experiencing
The last verse is the clincher.

lol
i see.

this is YOUR interpretation anyways.
Mormons interprete their bible to allow for polygamy as you know.

No Church that I know anywhere on earth forbids women from speaking.
Women preach,teach bible study,sing,lead church groups,baptize,lay hands in all churches that I know.
Give me an example of a church that forbids a woman from speaking based on this verse
where women are banned from speaking,
I did not say being ordained,speaking is the key word here.Christians realize to whom and for what purpose that command came,read the above verses again and if you cannot tell me one bible beieving church that a woman has never been allowed to speak,then you have no case.

Yes.
I can't give you an example of where women are banned from speaking because I (and you) live in the 21st century where everyone has equal rights to speak (even the youth)

But as i mentioned earlier, churches used to forbid women from speaking until quite recently with all the feminist revolution and what not (which was headed predominantly by the quaker church).

read my previous post. Some churches still hold the conservative view and hasn't gone with the flow of allowing women with these rights yet.

Oh wait!! I CAN give you an example of a church where women aren't allowed to preach on the pulprit. Goodguy's church comes to mind. ask him when he comes on here and he'll tell you.
Also, Catholics. There has never and most likely won't be a female pope or female priests, bishops.

the more recent churches however (pentecostals come to mind) are the most fervent with the rate of female pastors.

In general though modern christianity is not exactly what early christianity was like.
I placed "modern" in bold for a reason.

I don't know if there is such thing as modern islam though (at least not to the extent christianity has modernized)
islamic feminists, female preachers e.t.c are beginning to appear so we never know.

mormons are a cult,let's not go into that today

babyosisi:

mormons are a cult,let's not go into that today

lol

WesleyanA:

lol
i see.

Oh wait!! I CAN give you an example of a church where women aren't allowed to preach on the pulprit. Goodguy's church comes to mind. ask him when he comes on here and he'll tell you.
Also, Catholics. There has never and most likely won't be a female pope or female priests, bishops.

the more recent churches however (pentecostals come to mind) are the most fervent with the rate of female pastors.

In general though modern christianity is not exactly what early christianity was like.
I placed "modern" in bold for a reason.

I don't know if there is such thing as modern islam though (at least not to the extent christianity has modernized)
islamic feminists, female preachers e.t.c are beginning to appear so we never know.

remember the passage said speak not preach.
catholics don't have female priests and America is yet to have a female president.

Go Hilary!!!!!

babyosisi:

remember the passage said speak not preach.
catholics don't have female priests and America is yet to have a female president.

Go Hilary!!!!!

America is a progressive country (like many other western, developed countries)

Middle eastern and Islamist nations aren't
And this exactly is the problem islam is facing.

Quote from Nuru(deen): "It is not true that Muslims are not tolerant of dialogs, what Muslims hate is express disrespect for anything Islam."

Nuru,
This is an oxymoron: how can you claim to be tolerant of critique but hate 'disrespect' for "anything" Islam. What would be your defnition of "disrespect for anything" Islam. Dont you see, any crtitique of "anything" Islam is going to be interpreted as "disrespect" for "anything" Islam!

nuru:

It is not true that Muslims are not tolerant of dialogs, what Muslims hate is express disrespect for anything Islam. Call to the way of God with wisdom and fine teachings and when you need to argue, you do it beautifully.

I really don't know from where you chaps get all this crap-talk of the 21st century! Was Muhammad tolerant of dialogue with people of other faiths before he launched a massive attack on them for rejecting his calim to be a prophet? Was the "bedouine errand-boy for allah" respectful of anything about the faiths of other people before he labelled them as rats, pigs and swines??

Qur'an 7:166 - "When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected.""

Bukhari 4.524: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But I do not see them except that they were cursed and changed into rats, for if you put the milk of a she-camel in front of a rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it." I told this to Ka'b who asked me, "Did you hear it from the Prophet ?" I said, "Yes." Ka'b asked me the same question several times.; I said to Ka'b. "Do I read the Torah? (i.e. I tell you this from the Prophet.)"

Abu Dawud, Book 32, Number 4028: "Narrated Abu Amir or Abu Malik: AbdurRahman ibn Ghanam al-Ash'ari said: Abu Amir or Abu Malik told me--I swear by Allah another oath that he did not believe me that he heard the Apostle of Allah say: There will be among my community people who will make lawful (the use of) khazz and silk. Some of them will be transformed into apes and swine."

This is what nuru said: "Call to the way of God with wisdom and fine teachings and when you need to argue, you do it beautifully." The above summarizes how beautifully Muhammad argued with people, as well as being tolerant to dialogue!

In yorubaland, we say ' pele lobi o lako' . That is, the same word can be interpreted positively or negatively, depending on the usage.

Constructive Dialog/Engagement is not the same as flagrant and diabolical disrespect and I am sure you know what I mean.

Allah says in the Quran "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion" (Quran Ch 5 Vs 4).


It is left for individuals to accept or reject the favors of Allah. But practicing Islam is the best thing that can happen to anybody. You will know this if you have ever experienced 'sakinot' just knowing you are a Muslim. Sakinot can roughly be translated as 'tranquility of the highest order'.

I want to recommend for David and co to obtain Audio CD's of the Quran and listen to the recitations for just 20 minutes. Never mind whether you understand the meaning or not. Just listen to it, Do the pondering later. I am sure something will prick your heart that this is from the Creator of the Universe and what is beyond.

If for any reason you choose to believe that muslims are not tolerant, muslims on nairaland are tolerant and crave for dialogue. Lets take it from here

@nuru,

Can I ask you this: how "constructive" a dialogue or engagement is it for the Jews to read from Muhammad's lips that they are rats, apes, pigs and swines? How positive is that? If you insist it actually was constructive and positive, how would you feel today if a Jew was to say that Muhammad was a rat, an ape, a pig and a swine?

The disrespect you see in others that you fail to see in your own prophet is a bit "constructive", to say the least! Do you connect the dots now? The point is, if the Jews and others rejected Muhammad as a prophet who tried to impose himself on them with heretical claims, why retaliate with violence and warfare on them just for that rejection?

Allah says in the Quran "This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion" (Quran Ch 5 Vs 4).

Well, if the religion of Muhammad was actually perfected at the time he received that "revelation", how come the same Muhammad was not sure which verses should be established in the Qur'an and which should be "abrogated"??

Qur'an 16 vs 101
"When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not.

But the truth about who is a forger becomes clear from the Hadith that exposes the fraud:

Sahih Bukhari, Book 60: Volume 6, Book 60, Number 34:
Narrated Salama:
When the Divine Revelation:
"For those who can fast, they had a choice either fast, or feed a poor for every day," (2.184) was revealed, it was permissible for one to give a ransom and give up fasting, till the Verse succeeding it was revealed and abrogated it.

It just doesn't make any sense to pretend these verses in the real scheme of things. And yet, we have heard many times how some Muslims brag about the changes in the Bible but the unity of the Qur'an which has never been changed! Indeed, the Qur'anic verses have been altered and what is left now is a revised edition that differs from the original one that Muhammad claimed he received from Allah.

@belloti,

As for tolerance, I admire you calmness in many instances on the Forum. What you don't seem to understand is that Muslims can make statements (even very derogatory ones) publicly against Christians, Christianity and in some instances Jesus Himself - and they justify it as the Islamic tolerance towards others. But when anyone else says anything about Islam or try to quote the Quran and Hadith, the so-called tolerance you offer here disappears and something else takes place.

nuru:

In yorubaland, we say 'pele lobi o lako' . That is, the same word can be interpreted positively or negatively, depending on the usage.

I want to recommend for David and co to obtain Audio CD's of the Quran and listen to the recitations for just 20 minutes. Never mind whether you understand the meaning or not. Just listen to it, Do the pondering later. I am sure something will prick your heart that this is from the Creator of the Universe and what is beyond.

@Nuru,
you must be a very very interesting fellow: by the way, what you mean above is "Pele l'abo, o l'ako". On the other hand I want to recommend for you to get a tape or CD of classical music e.g Beethoven and listen to the music for just 15minutes. Never mind whether you understand the meaning or not, just listen to it, do the pondering later. I am sure, in fact very sure you will experience a greater "sakinot" than you've ever experienced listening to some Arabic droaning. I will not be surprised if you think it is from allah "itself"

The story of Muhammad's (SAW) life is in the common domain. How he faced persecutions with his followers in the hands of disbelievers is well known. His legendary steadfastness is equally acknowledged in history. The sayings reported of him that some people turned to apes and the rest is the truth as revealed to him. Muhammad did not say anything out of his own freewill as teaching or as a message except what was revealed to him. And even the levels of revelations were different. The highest was recited to him and he repeated after Angel Jubril and his companions repeated the recitations after him and learnt it by heart.

It may pain you that some people were reported to have turned into apes, but take it from me it is the truth. Even in our age, we have seen and heard people turn to different things, so don't be surprised.

The was that Muhammad were defensive. When the meccans violated the treaty of Hudaybia, the prophet was given permission to march on Mecca and it fell without a single arrow thrown. Even in victory, the Prophet showed magnanimity of the highest order. Verses of Quran arguing Muslims to fight and slay the enemies when they transgress are to serve as deterrents for aggressors and for the Muslims to defend peace and noble co-existence. Muslims are the best nation raised for mankind, they believe in God, invite to what is right and forbid evil. Islamic faith is not a docile one.

As for the abrogation of verses that God proclaimed in the Quran, you only have realize that its because of His Mercy and Compassion for His Slaves. Look at it this way, when Intoxicant was to be prohibited, God did it in stages. The verse that mentioned that when you are intoxicated, don't perform salat came before the one that says you should not indulge in it at all. If you are not careful and you read the former verse, you may be tempted to say the Intoxicants are permitted in Islam, but that is not the case. With this example, I think you can appreciate the issue of abrogation of verses better.

To my Beethoven loving friend, you cannot compare sleep with death, neither can you compare day and night. I am a music lover and player myself and I have two albums to my credit. But music is not Revelations although Quran is somehow rhythmic. But just try what I have said by listening to the Quran and report your experience here. ' Eyan o le gbe okere mo didun obe' 'You cant savour the sweetness o a meal until you taste it'

@nuru,

You haven't really made any sense at all but offered excuses to defend the indefensible.

nuru:

The story of Muhammad's (SAW) life is in the common domain. How he faced persecutions with his followers in the hands of disbelievers is well known. His legendary steadfastness is equally acknowledged in history. The sayings reported of him that some people turned to apes and the rest is the truth as revealed to him. Muhammad did not say anything out of his own freewill as teaching or as a message except what was revealed to him. And even the levels of revelations were different. The highest was recited to him and he repeated after Angel Jubril and his companions repeated the recitations after him and learnt it by heart.

When you study Muhammad's life and sayings especially from the Hadith, do you see a man that was consistent with his call as a prophet? Do you see a man who lived a holy exemplary life that there's no area in his life that is quite questionable and even repugnant?

Secondly,

nuru:

It may pain you that some people were reported to have turned into apes, but take it from me it is the truth. Even in our age, we have seen and heard people turn to different things, so don't be surprised.

So, it is alright then for the Jews to call Muhammad the names that he called them? It may pain you, but can you take it as the truth that Muhammad has been called so many things by many people?

nuru:

The was that Muhammad were defensive. When the meccans violated the treaty of Hudaybia, the prophet was given permission to march on Mecca and it fell without a single arrow thrown. Even in victory, the Prophet showed magnanimity of the highest order.

What about the defenseless villages Muhammad and his companions attacked for just simply rejecting his claim as a prophet?

nuru:

Verses of Quran arguing Muslims to fight and slay the enemies when they transgress are to serve as deterrents for aggressors and for the Muslims to defend peace and noble co-existence. Muslims are the best nation raised for mankind, they believe in God, invite to what is right and forbid evil. Islamic faith is not a docile one.

Does that explain why Shiites and Sunnis are at each other - to defend peace and noble co-existence by turning on each other?

nuru:

As for the abrogation of verses that God proclaimed in the Quran, you only have realize that its because of His Mercy and Compassion for His Slaves. Look at it this way, when Intoxicant was to be prohibited, God did it in stages. The verse that mentioned that when you are intoxicated, don't perform salat came before the one that says you should not indulge in it at all. If you are not careful and you read the former verse, you may be tempted to say the Intoxicants are permitted in Islam, but that is not the case. With this example, I think you can appreciate the issue of abrogation of verses better.

Just simply go and read the texts about the abrogation and see that they were not about intoxicants. Several verses were abrogated because they were considered too embarrassing for the Rasul. Not only so, to even suggest the possibility of abrogating verses shows that Muhammad's deity was inconsitent and could not make up his mind on any issue, unless Muhammad was satisfied with it.

nuru:

To my Beethoven loving friend, you cannot compare sleep with death, neither can you compare day and night. I am a music lover and player myself and I have two albums to my credit. But music is not Revelations although Quran is somehow rhythmic. But just try what I have said by listening to the Quran and report your experience here. ' Eyan o le gbe okere mo didun obe' 'You can't savour the sweetness o a meal until you taste it'

Have you tasted the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ? Can you report your experience here after you do?

this thread was created for the holy Quran .

if you guys want to hate do so elsewhere . .

we cant all be christians let us be . .

belive in what you believe in

i believe in what i believe

its never by force for others to accept what you believe in .


you guys just wait for a new thread about Islam to be created .

babyosis created a thread about prayer for nigeria . have any muslim gone in to disrupt the peace?
i am sure if it was created by a muslim you would all have gone in . .

Mukina I must totally agree with your concern. I am a Christian and will NEVER resort to this type of behaviour. Now Jesus is a peace maker and will never sanction such behaviour by His followers.  Sad to this that this demeanor by many of us so called Christians has been detrimental rather than successive. In stead of harbouring war of words between ourselves and other religions, why not adhere to the teachings of the Lord, and spread His word.  I believe by interruption someone else's thread, that was created for their purpose is a blatant travestry of justice.  Take my advise, create a separate thread and let Us discuss Christianity and our Holy Bible, Cheers!!!

so mukina you want us to leave?

neelsel:

Mukina I must totally agree with your concern. I am a Christian and will NEVER resort to this type of behaviour. Now Jesus is a peace maker and will never sanction such behaviour by His followers.  Sad to this that this demeanor by many of us so called Christians has been detrimental rather than successive. In stead of harbouring war of words between ourselves and other religions, why not adhere to the teachings of the Lord, and spread His word.  I believe by interruption someone else's thread, that was created for their purpose is a blatant travestry of justice.  Take my advise, create a separate thread and let Us discuss Christianity and our Holy Bible, Cheers!!!

@neelsel,
Well, you might say you are a Christian, but your attempt at political correctness shows you are not really following Christ. You are like the Pharisees who Christ detest very much because of their "ostrich-like" behaviour i.e. 'see no evil, hear no evil'. I am sure if somebody opens up another thread glorifying devil worship and inviting people to come into it, you will say it is wrong to "interrupt such a thread that was created for their purpose". Have you not read how Jesus the Christ always go into the synagogues (the abode of the pharisees) to confront the hypocritical pharisees and expose their spritual adultery? This is not "interruption" but showing Islam and the Quran for an evil that it is. You don't like it, take your 'politically-correct' christianity somewhere else: this is an open and voluntary forum created for inter-faith debates.
In case you do not know, we've read from some muslims who confessed that they did not know there were such evil in the life and lifestyle of muhammed and in the Quran until they came to nairaland and saw an open debate about their so called 'faith': these are things hidden from them in their masjids, and the Oustass discourages them from asking too much questions.

The best example of how to live life and attain eternal bliss is in the Prophets of God. The best and the last of them is Muhammad. He lived life as human being not as an angel so that you and I can learn fervently from his existence. He was known as the Trustworthy even before Revelations started coming to him. He was most gentle and kind. He married a single wife for twenty five years of his life and did not marry others until she passed on. He had children, girls and boys, lost some of them and indeed was a perfect example a family man. He ruled as a King, yet a Prophet. He controlled vast resources but did not accumulate wealth. He performed miracles by the permission of his Lord. Remember the miracle of the splitting of the moon. One day I will write about that insha Allau on this forum. Muhammad was a soldier, a doctor, a scientist, an economist, a lawbearer, a judge, a teacher, an engineer, a politician, a pilot and many more, all rolled into one. What a noble Prophet.

Today, I will leave you with this from the Glorious Book.

Surah 47:
Muhammad (Muhammad)

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

1. Those who reject Allah and hinder (men) from the Path of Allah,- their deeds will Allah render astray (from their mark).

2. But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.

3. This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.

Accept Islam today. Wont you.

@ nuru,
for the sake of those who find it difficult to understand the greek spellings in your posts, here is a translation to aid better understanding:

The best example of how to live life and attain eternal bliss is in the Prophets of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The best and the most popular of the false prophets is Muhammad. He lived life as human being not as a jinn so that you and I can learn malevolence from his existence. He was known as the maurader even before hallucinations started coming to him. He was most violent and unkind. He married a single sugar mummy for twenty five years of his life and did not marry and/or rape others until she passed on. He had children, girls and boys, lost some of them, sexually abused a few and indeed was a perfect example a family man by using forceful means and evil manipulations to sieze his nephews wife as a sexual tool. He ruled as a tyrant, yet a false prophet. He plundered vast resources and did accumulate ill-gotten wealth. He lied about performing miracles by the permission of his Lord. Remember the fairy tale of the splitting of the moon. One day (in other words never) I will write about that insha Allau on this forum. Muhammad was a robber, a pedophile, a plunderer, a hypocrite, a liar, a manipulator, a false teacher, a fraud, a rapist, a story teller and many more, all rolled into one. What an ignoble Prophet.

Havila:

@neelsel,
Well, you might say you are a Christian, but your attempt at political correctness shows you are not really following Christ. You are like the Pharisees who Christ detest very much because of their "ostrich-like" behaviour i.e. 'see no evil, hear no evil'.

lol please ignore this weasel. The "christian" pretender came on my email the other day spewing forth worse garbage that even the muslims on this board will consider completely out of order!

I have said it that muslim who come to this thread should just stick to the topic. Post anything you thing make Qur'an glorious and ignore the haters. you stick to the topic, and let them do their rubbish, ignore them, that is the best thing to do to people like them who do not reason with explanations because they are not here to learn or to reason along, but to achieve one thing, to attack Islam. The truth is, if they are here for heart to heart discussions about Qur'an, seeking to understands certain verses or chapters, it would have been good and right, but even if you explain to them and substantiate and enumerate their questions, they still wont learn, but stick to their brainwashed idea. MUSLIM SHOULD PLEASE STICK TO THE TOPIC, DID YOU JUST READ WHAT THEY SAY ABOUT THEIR FELLOW CHRISTIAN IN FAITH? As for me, I dont reply to their post, they are petty!

Havila:

@neelsel,
Well, you might say you are a Christian, but your attempt at political correctness shows you are not really following Christ. You are like the Pharisees who Christ detest very much because of their "ostrich-like" behaviour i.e. 'see no evil, hear no evil'. I am sure if somebody opens up another thread glorifying devil worship and inviting people to come into it, you will say it is wrong to "interrupt such a thread that was created for their purpose". Have you not read how Jesus the Christ always go into the synagogues (the abode of the pharisees) to confront the hypocritical pharisees and expose their spritual adultery? This is not "interruption" but showing Islam and the Quran for an evil that it is. You don't like it, take your 'politically-correct' christianity somewhere else: this is an open and voluntary forum created for inter-faith debates.
In case you do not know, we've read from some muslims who confessed that they did not know there were such evil in the life and lifestyle of muhammed and in the Quran until they came to nairaland and saw an open debate about their so called 'faith': these are things hidden from them in their masjids, and the Oustass discourages them from asking too much questions.

Once again You have just proved exactly what I was trying to say and again put the good work of the Lord Jesus Christ to shame, by judging me. Who are you to judge anyone, Mr. self righteous? I am who I am, and you and your barrage of words and ideas CANNOT do anything to change that.
Political correctness? Please spare me the agony. All I am saying is that why come on a forum to bash someone else's religion? People like you scare Non-believers away from ever findiing out instilled in us, you have instead choosen to be an aggressive attention seekers. You are like the pharises that fasted and showed every sign of it because they wanted men to admire and lavish them with praise. I will continue winning souls for the Lord while you are so busily trying to impress. I am done with you and your idiosyncrasies, there are far too many other important issues that are destroying our world you Anti-christ. You truly need deliverance.

PS. Once again, if you need us to discuss Jesus and OUr Bible be a peacemaker, afterall that Is exactly what Jesus would have done, and start your own thread. There are many ways of catching fishes other than with hook and line.

lol please ignore this weasel. The "christian" pretender came on my email the other day spewing forth worse garbage that even the muslims on this board will consider completely out of order!

[quote][/quote]

David boy toy or whatever you call yourself, why not be truthful and give the entire story to your counterparts. Tell them that you made rude remarks to reply I posted regarding an issue that is very rampant in many African countries, tell them the language you used in not one, but two of your replies.
I pity Jesus for having people of your calibre as His followers, but then again He said He came so that Men will be saved.
The audacity of you to making crude about me, you've got be out of your cotton picking mind. You don't know me so please don't even go there, moran.

It's slowpoke, not moran. . . .

neelsel:

I pity Jesus for having people of your calibre as His followers,

I was just waiting for this kind of silly quips to prove that the so-called plea for tolerance that Muslims ask for is non-existent anywhere in the Islamic world. It is alright for others to tolerate Islam and Muhammad and not make derogatory remarks about him and his chief idol *allah and the 3 goddesses that follow him.

You pity Jesus, you say? I'm truly sorry for you, my dear. If only you knew who Jesus really is, you would have carefully thought out your statement. In any case, you have only managed to provide the impetus for Christians to come on board this and other threads and expose the career of Muhammad and his fraud called the Qur'an.

Besides that, the typical mindset of Muslim apologetics has been exposed in the past few rejoinders by Muslims themselves. For instance, many Muslims would pretend that in Islam, no prophet is greater than any other and all the prophets are respected equally. If that lie has been kept close for a while, it has now been revealed - thanks to nuru:

nuru:

The best example of how to live life and attain eternal bliss is in the Prophets of God. The best and the last of them is Muhammad. He lived life as human being not as an angel so that you and I can learn fervently from his existence.

Now there - the so-called "we don't compare prophets in Islam" has now risen to the surface with nuru's version of setting Muhammad above others. Now let's pity Muhammad and take a look at his "best and last" examples of how to live a life and attain eternal bliss:

1. Muhammad was a pedophile
He snatched a 'minor' (underaged girl) at 6 years of age and took her to bed when she was barely 9 nine years old. If Muhammad was setting the best example, I'm sure not even nuru would oblige his 9 year old daughter to the bedouin errand-boy of *allah for such dastardly act. (see Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Number 3310: The Book of Marriage [Kitab Al-Nikah]; and Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64)

2. Muhammad was a sex pervert.
How many times have we asked Muslim apologists to explain the meaning of the following: (a) Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 173 - Muhammad's instruction concerning women shaving their pubic hair; (b) Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3240 - after he had sex with Zainab, Muhammad equates women to the devil; (c) Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 135 - Muhammad's companions having lewd sex with female captives and practicing coitus interruptus as the Qur'an was being revealed; (d) Qur'an 2:223 - where Muhammad's *allah describes women as th[/i]e tilts [i]for Muslim men to sexually cultivate in whatever manner they chose?

3. Muhammad was a self-confessed incorrigible sinner
Sahih Bukhari, Invocations Volume 8, Book 75, Number 319
Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying." By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day."

Those are some of the "best and last" examples of your best prophet whose career was well documented in Islamic sources. You fellows will make careless statements here and then hope that others should just leave the thread for you to continue your miserable exercise against Jesus, abi? And then you will come back with snivels crying, "we love all the prophets and we never say anything derogatory against anyone of them, not even Jesus!" Indeed.

You don't expect to make unguarded remarks about the Lord Jesus Christ and expect Christian believers to just sidon-look!

neelsel:

David boy toy or whatever you call yourself, why not be truthful and give the entire story to your counterparts. Tell them that you made rude remarks to reply I posted regarding an issue that is very rampant in many African countries, tell them the language you used in not one, but two of your replies.
I pity Jesus for having people of your calibre as His followers, but then again He said He came so that Men will be saved.
The audacity of you to making crude about me, you've got be out of your cotton picking mind. You don't know me so please don't even go there, moran.

Dear weasel, you really make me laugh. I really should have ignored your rantings but just to say one last hurray before you joinn my long list of ignored individuals.

I made rude remarks about a reply you posted to an issue "that is VERY RAMPANT IN MANY AFRICAN COUNTRIES"?
First of all, that is the very height of prejudice, small mindedness and stereotyping! Which was the main point in my earlier post to you (which you found rude simply because it did not ape your prejudiced idea of Africa!)! Have you ever been to Africa? When did you take your statistics about men sleeping with their wives sisters? You said it is a RAMPANT issue in Africa? Why only Africa?
I lived in Nigeria for 23 years! I did not see my father, uncles, friends, brothers sleeping around with their wives sisters neither did i see anyone else do so! So where is your basis for making such sweeping ignorant statements?
Why do you say it is RAMPANT only in Africa? Is that not an indirect way of indicating African men are simply animals who will sleep with anything in skirts even their mothers? That dear is theh very height of insult to an African man!!!!

OK, language i used in my replies? You are the very height of hypocrisy!!! I remember ignoring your first 3 hate-filled emails before i had to reply you in kind on the 4th annoying spam! So keep quiet!

You pity Jesus for having us as followers?  No wonder you sound so like the pharisees and sadducees! They too "pitied" Jesus for having publicans and sinners as friends, fishermen as disciples, an adultress as a friend and a corrupt tax collector as a host! Does that sound familiar? 

Audacity to make crude but correct remarks about you? Sorry ma just in case you are important personality. Pride goes before a fall.

I don't know you? Neither do you know me, but well i was not shocked you went to the extent of ferreting out my email to send me not 1, 2 but 5 spam emails! Indeed i don't know you!

Now if you don't mind, we have had enough of hypocrites pretending to be christians but who in all truth are nothing but whitened sepulchres!

Shahan, i cant believe you are going this far in your attack on islam. Its enough you ve opted out conveniently after waiting for your oldman to take the bold step. i assume its a family decision not neccessarily democratic, (a la PDP).

We have recieved so much venom from David, Havila, Baby and others regarding the percieved negative conducts of our holy prophet, Rasoul SAW. We reject in totality the misinterpretations of Quranic Verses and Hadith provisions. But we took the insults as the ranting of some ants who felt there shouldnt be any need for healthy discussions between Us and Them.

Apart from Dr Havila, who committed Ridda recently, most of the christians argueing here were victims of parental legacies and family traditions. As regards to the scriptures originally in Hebrew and Arabic, we always quotes, translates and misinterprete texts to tally with our opinions and propaganda. We are mostly born muslims and christians without our input and choose to either cling or rebel when we finally attain adulthood. If the whole christendom joined nairaland to repeat what the frontliners had spent so much mental and emotional resources posting here, it will not change the fact that we are still muslims and christians hanging out on a common platform to socialise and make lasting friendship.

i would love to reading articles about christianity written by christians to throw some insight about Jesus, Trinity and stuff like that instead of constant criticism of my unshaken faith.

chei belotti,your kind words can calm down a raging sea
do you sincerely say we are misrepresenting Islam or you are not happy we are exposing the not to fancy side of Mohammed and Islam.

Which of those quotations are wrong?

I have forwaded your names to Iranian mullahs for a fatwa to be passed against you lot.How dare u blaspheme a religion of peace