Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland
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| Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 3:50pm On Sep 27, 2015 |
JEDDAH: As the probe into the stampede in Mina continues, an Iranian official has confirmed that a group of 300 Iranian pilgrims coming from the opposite direction caused the crush, according to media reports quoting Iranian sources.  http://www.arabnews.com/news/811961 cc mukina2, Sissie |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by vedaxcool(m): 8:16am On Sep 28, 2015 |
Though I have heard several individuals make this claims, I prefer waiting for the Saudi authorities to publish the report on their investigation rather than jump to conclusions, something that a certain increasingly erratic old man needs to learn and understand, the Saudis need to divise a system that pilgrims do not have the option of disregarding the timetables and other arrangements. This is a painful lesson, but I am sure lessons would be learnt at the end of the investigations. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 8:59pm On Sep 28, 2015 |
@OP, Demmyz15, so many versions of the report influenced by political, sectarian, social and economic factors. First, African were blamed for the cause Second, its the Iranian Third, its God (fate and destiny) according to the Saudi Grand mufti while trying to soothe the prince (Hajj committee chairman) that its not his fault. Fourth, its the Egyptian pilgrims. Empiree got us a link to that. Fifth, its the heavily armed escort of the prince that want to do VIP stoning. Whatever the cause may be, its squarely the organizer's responsibility and they should be man enough to take up the blame and not apportion blames to the guests of Allah. Its a priveledge to manage Hajj facilities and according to Quran, only he who have "fear of God" could do that. First it was the crane incident which should never have happened in the first place. Then this which is worst in the history. The first should have prevent further occurrence had the management value the safety of the guests of Allah. @vedaxcool, yeah the old man needs to be erratic. That's a sign of being responsible at least on a face value. He's mourning 140 hujjah from his Nation and scores are still missing. He needs to be more erratic being the father of his nation. PMB too his getting erratic now as he has summoned the Saudi embassy in Nigeria and Nigeria Hajj committee. Lastly, "waiting for Saudi investigations?"  ma sha Allah. Is there any portion in kitab wa Sunnah where the family of the Saud are synonymous with truthfulness? Nah! What I found in the ahadith (sahih Muslim) is that Prophet pointed to Najd and said "that's where fitnah and satan will rise".1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 7:43am On Sep 29, 2015 |
What I found in the ahadith (sahih Muslim) is that Prophet pointed to Najd and said "that's where fitnah and satan will rise". AlBaqir This refers to the East, which is the environs of present day Iraaq, not Najd of Saudi! 1 Like |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 9:13am On Sep 29, 2015 |
Demmzy15: NAJD is the central Saudi Arabia. Absolutely I don't know where you got your interpretation to be Iraq. |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 9:44am On Sep 29, 2015 |
Amir Hajj of Kebbi State says "Allah Ya isa" to the Saudis. He gives amazing eye witness account. : "We were about 50 metres from the exit, together with Justice Abubakar Jega (Court of Appeal Judge who also lost his life in the stampede) & were commenting on how hot it was, when the Saudi security forces blocked the exit with their cars and ambulances. The surge of pilgrims, from both directions created panic & stampede, people trampled on top of one another. All along the security forces just stood & watched, they didn't make, any move. Whatever it is that they plotted against us, ALLAH YA ISA. And the (official) casualty figures 700, are a mockery. In the single hospital we visited alone, the tally with pictures of those that died was about 1200. " -HRH Emir of Argungu Alhaji Samaila Muhammadu Mera (BBC Hausa, evening news programme 26/9/2015) |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 9:56am On Sep 29, 2015 |
AlBaqir:There's a village in Palestine also known as "Najd", so Najd of Saudi Arabia isn't the only Najd. Basically the Najd that is understood today's world is something of a concept (of where it lies in location) that was recent, no more than a couple hundred years. And upon this newly found understand of what Najd is, it is very unfair to interpret this 1400 year old prophecy within the context of this 3 hundred year old view of najd. In Fath al-Bari Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee said after quoting the words of al-Khattaabee explaining the meaning of Qarn (horn): "and others have said that the People of the East were disbelievers at that time and the Messenger of Allaah, (saw), informed us that the trials and tribulations would arise from that direction and it was as he said. And the first of the trials that arose, arose from the direction of the east and they were the reason for the splitting of the Muslim ranks, and this is what Satan loves and delights in. Likewise the innovations appeared from that direction." And amongst the trials that arose in Iraaq and the east was the martyrdom of Alee, the martyrdom of the grandson of the Prophet, (saw), the first battle between the Muslims occurred in Iraaq, and many more. Imaam Nawawee mentions that one of the greatest trials to appear from the East will be the appearance of the Dajjaal. The Najd of those people living in Madeenah in the direction of the East would be Iraaq. Ibn Hajr said: "al-Khattaabee said: ‘the najd in the direction of the east, and for the one who is in Madeenah then his Najd would be the desert of Iraaq and it’s regions [baadiya al-Iraaq wa Nawaaheehaa] for this is to the east of the People of Madeenah. The basic meaning of Najd is that which is raised/elevated from the earth in contravention to al-Gawr for that is what is lower than it. Tihaamah [the coastal plain along the south-western and southern shores of the Arabian Peninsula] is entirely al-Gawr and Mecca is in Tihaamah.’" Ibn Hajr continues, "by this [saying of al-Khattaabee] the weakness of the saying of adDaawodee is understood that ‘Najd is in the direction of Iraaq’ [min Naahiya al-Iraaq] for he suggests that Najd is a specific place. This is not the case, rather everything that is elevated with respect to what adjoins it is called Najd and the lower area called Gawr." Al-Mubaarakfooree endorses these words in his commentary to Sunan at-Tirmidhee (10/314) Iman Ibn Kathir made a very marvelous proclamation about the Khawaarij from the East: “If they ever gained strength, they would surely corrupt the whole of the earth, Iraq and Syria (Shaam) – they would not leave a baby, male or female, neither a man or a woman, because as far as they are concerned the people have caused corruption, a corruption that cannot be rectified except by mass killing.“ “Al-Bidaayah wan-Nihaayah” (10/584-585) This perfectly fits the tribulation of ISIS in Iraaq and Syria. This dreaded group had its origins from Iraaq, this is an established fact! 1 Like |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 10:43am On Sep 29, 2015 |
^That's an interesting opinion of Ibn Hajar and the likes. Here's the hadith: 1. Hadith from Sahih al-Bukhari: ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﻣﺤﻤﺪ ﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﻤﺜﻨﻰ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺣﺴﻴﻦ ﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺍﺑﻦ ﻋﻮﻥ ﻋﻦ ﻧﺎﻓﻊ ﻋﻦ ﺍﺑﻦ ﻋﻤﺮ ﻗﺎﻝ: ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﺑﺎﺭﻙ ﻟﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ ﺷﺎﻣﻨﺎ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻳﻤﻨﻨﺎ . ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻧﺠﺪﻧﺎ ؟ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﺑﺎﺭﻙ ﻟﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ ﺷﺎﻣﻨﺎ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻳﻤﻨﻨﺎ . ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻧﺠﺪﻧﺎ . ؟ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻫﻨﺎﻙ ﺍﻟﺰﻻﺯﻝ ﻭﺍﻟﻔﺘﻦ ﻭﺑﻬﺎ ﻳﻄﻠﻊ ﻗﺮﻥ ﺍﻟﺸﻴﻄﺎﻥ Narrated Nafi': Ibn 'Umar said: "O Allah, bless our Syria and our Yemen for us." They said, "And our Najd?" He said, "O Allah, bless our Syria and our Yemen for us." They said, "And our Najd?" He said, "In that place are earthquakes and fitnah, and through it will the Horn of Shaytan appear." http://islamport.com/w/mtn/Web/3007/1855.htm http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/401967/Najd 2. ﺳﻨﻦ ﺍﻟﺘﺮﻣﺬﻱ 3953 ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺑﺸﺮ ﺑﻦ ﺁﺩﻡ ﺍﺑﻦ ﺍﺑﻨﺔ ﺃﺯﻫﺮ ﺍﻟﺴﻤﺎﻥ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﻲ ﺟﺪﻱ ﺃﺯﻫﺮ ﺍﻟﺴﻤﺎﻥ ﻋﻦ ﺍﺑﻦ ﻋﻮﻥ ﻋﻦ ﻧﺎﻓﻊ ﻋﻦ ﺍﺑﻦ ﻋﻤﺮ ﺃﻥ ﺭﺳﻮﻝ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﺻﻠﻰ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﺑﺎﺭﻙ ﻟﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ ﺷﺎﻣﻨﺎ ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﺑﺎﺭﻙ ﻟﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ ﻳﻤﻨﻨﺎ ﻗﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻧﺠﺪﻧﺎ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﺑﺎﺭﻙ ﻟﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ ﺷﺎﻣﻨﺎ ﻭﺑﺎﺭﻙ ﻟﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ ﻳﻤﻨﻨﺎ ﻗﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻧﺠﺪﻧﺎ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻫﻨﺎﻙ ﺍﻟﺰﻻﺯﻝ ﻭﺍﻟﻔﺘﻦ ﻭﺑﻬﺎ ﺃﻭ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻣﻨﻬﺎ ﻳﺨﺮﺝ ﻗﺮﻥ ﺍﻟﺸﻴﻄﺎﻥ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺃﺑﻮ ﻋﻴﺴﻰ ﻫﺬﺍ ﺣﺪﻳﺚ ﺣﺴﻦ ﺻﺤﻴﺢ ﻏﺮﻳﺐ ﺗﺤﻘﻴﻖ ﺍﻷﻟﺒﺎﻧﻲ : ﺻﺤﻴﺢ http://islamport.com/w/alb/Web/782/3953.htm Narrated Ibn 'Umar: The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said, "O Allah, bless our Syria for us. O Allah, bless our Yemen for us." They said, "And our Najd?" He said, "O Allah, bless our Syria for us and bless our Yemen for us." They said, "And our Najd?" He said, "In that place are earthquakes and fitnahs, and through it or from it will the Horn of Shaytan rise." Abu 'Isa (Imam at-Tirmidhi) said: This hadith is hasan sahih gharib. Al-Albani said: Sahih. ________________________ What does "Our Najd" (as voiced out by the Sahaba, the inhabitants of Najd) meant to refer to? If according to you "Najd" refer to Iraq, So the question is when was Iraq founded and developed? 2 Likes |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 12:19pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
^ As I've clearly explained, the opinion of Ibn Hajar and the majority of scholars of Ahl Sunnah. The question you're asking is clearly explained, please read it up critically. The meaning of Najd as understood is the elevated "East" of Medina in which this hadith was narrated. Mind you when we say Iraaq, it's points to present day within the border of Iraaq and its environs especially when we consider that the present day border was recent. The location of Najd depends on your location as I've clearly stated. So the Najd of Medina is Iraaq, "our Najd". I hope this hadith shades more light; The hadeeth in Saheeh Muslim [4/1505 no.6943] Saalim bin Abdullaah bin Umar said: O people of Iraaq, how strange is it that you ask about the minor sins but commit the major sins? [The killing of al-Husayn] I heard my father, Abdullaah bin Umar narrating that he heard the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, saying while pointing his hand to the east: "Indeed the turmoil would come from this side, from where appear the horns of Satan and you would strike the necks of one another " Remember that you quoted an hadith which mentioned Najd, but this hadith clearly explained it. You can't just ignore one part and accept another just because it's supports you. I know you're trying to fire at Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdulwahab, because he's from the environs of present day Saudi Najd, but also remember that Ibn Abdulwahab is from the tribe of Banu Tameem. The Prophet spoke good of Banu Tameem: "Do not say of Banu Tamim anything but good, for indeed they are the severest of people in attacking the Dajjaal." Musnad Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal 1 Like |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 12:34pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
@Demmzy15, i disagree with you, sir. There is currently an attempt to divert attention of muslims from Najd referred to by the prophet(SAW). Now, my contribution on this is not in any way meant to blame Saudi authority for recent incident. I do not hold them deliberately responsible unless and until firm evidence suggests otherwise. I already drafted my opinion on this stampede incident here https://www.nairaland.com/2624196/see-whos-responsible-hajj-stampede#down Where Is Najd? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbHymIJWMfA |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 12:44pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
Empiree:Sorry bro, I perfectly understand your point. Whatever I stated are not of my own, but of scholars and geographer who understood. I can't download the video, but please brief me through the video, maybe I could get some points. About the hajj stampede, I'll like us to wait for what really happened as we've seen there's speculations here and there is. So I think we should wait! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 2:51pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
Demmzy15:No problem. I watched the video months back. ..can't really brief on it at the moment. It's true some scholars did their geographical research in the past. But there are more researches on the subject in recent decades as well. You know, as you rightly said, it's their opinion and other scholars have opinion to be respected too. Brother in the video is in favor of najd located in Saudi Arabia. He gave detail analysis. Just like we discussed before on "the conquest of Constantinople", ulama at large believe throughout the centuries that it already took place. But revisiting ahadith to this effect indicate that the event is still ahead of us. Point is opinion is not binding. I think you should try the video again in a little while. You may be having network problems. On hajj issue, muslims really need to comport themselves and accept what Allah decreed for those people. We all know how great it is for someone to die in Islam Holiest site. I'm sure at least one person from supposed 717 or 1200 hujjah prayed to die in Mekkah someday and Allah brought it fourth. We should not be sectarian addict over this. In sha Allah, the victims are shuhadah and may Allah accept their good deeds and grant them Janna Firdaus. |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 3:45pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
Empiree: No problem sir, I've checked the note on youtube and I found out what the video is about. He speaks mainly about the authenticity of the hadiths regarding the mention of Najd and Iraaq. But when I checked what some scholars said about the authenticity of the narrations, they were clear that it's authentic. Nevertheless, I'll watch the video later, like you said earlier, every scholar is entitled to his/her opinions. It's true some scholars did their geographical research in the past. But there are more researches on the subject in recent decades as well. The reason why the geographers and scholars of the old were correct is because of the way they understood their topography and land. Mind you that, many of those promoting the idea of Najd(Saudi) base this on modern maps, which are based on modern day borders. But geographers and scholars of the old drew their maps from South to North(pole) unlike ours today. This is not restricted to Muslims alone but to other older geographers like Plotemy. Please read more http://www.1001inventions.com/node/1615 You know, as you rightly said, it's their opinion and other scholars have opinion to be respected too. Brother in the video is in favor of najd located in Saudi Arabia. He gave detail analysis. Na'am, he actually focused on the authenticity of the hadith when it's well known how authentic the hadiths are. I'll watch later sha! Just like we discussed before on "the conquest of Constantinople", ulama at large believe throughout the centuries that it already took place. But revisiting ahadith to this effect indicate that the event is still ahead of us. Point is opinion is not binding. Bro, please I want you to go through this article when you're free. It's important http://www.dajjaal.com/liar/articles/gvokb-the-dajjaal-anti-christ-will-appear-after-70000-from-bani-ishaq-conquer-constantinople.cfm I think you should try the video again in a little while. You may be having network problems. OK, no problem! On hajj issue, muslims really need to comport themselves and accept what Allah decreed for those people. We all know how great it is for someone to die in Islam Holiest site. I'm sure at one person from supposed 717 or 1200 hujjah prayed to die in Mekkah someday and Allah brought it fourth. Amin  1 Like |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 5:28pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
Demmzy15: Ibn Hajar has never been known to be a geographer. Which among the Ahlu Sunnah Ulama interpreted that hadith based on geographical location? What you posted concerning the meaning of "Najd" from your Ulama is nothing but conjecture. Besides how many ahadith have been fabricated to check or balance other ahadith! Again I ask you as a student of knowledge, when was Iraq established? Who founded it, who developed it? Simple questions and you are telling me opinion of Ibn Hajar. Should I give you scores of different opinions from different scholars? However, your suspicion is nothing but suspicion. What concern the topic with Ibn Abdulwahab? Even among the blessed progeny of Nabi Ibrahim (alaihi Salam), or the sons of Nabi Nuh, Nabi Yaqub (alaihima Salam) there existed Zalimun (transgressors). And no matter how worst a family is, a saint might come out of it. The history of the Saud family and their ally, Sheik Muhammad ibn Abdulwahab and his followers; the brutal wars they fought to occupy lands whereby AlSaud family is established is there to be read through different pen of history. My concern is simply NAJD never your sheik. His own part in history is clear except for his loyalist trying to cover him up. Interestingly, his loyalist accepted him being a "Najdi" which appear after his names. In sha Allah we shall educate ourselves the more on Where is Najd.
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| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 6:51pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
Demmzy15:More than that brother. I just watched it again to be sure I posted the right video. He did talked and confirmed authenticity of the hadith. But he gave detail analysis location of Najd. You will see when you watch it. The reason why the geographers and scholars of the old were correct is because of the way they understood their topography and land. Mind you that, many of those promoting the idea of Najd(Saudi) base this on modern maps, which are based on modern day borders. But geographers and scholars of the old drew their maps from South to North(pole) unlike ours today. This is not restricted to Muslims alone but to other older geographers like Plotemy. Please read more http://www.1001inventions.com/node/1615You raised good point here. Well, we will see. I have another video with details as well by Sheikh Imran. Can't post it at the moment. But the brother up there actually used ahadith throughout including majmah fatawa of Sheik ul Islam (ra) and early scholars to prove his point. Na'am, he actually focused on the authenticity of the hadith when it's well known how authentic the hadiths are. I'll watch later sha!He has no problem with authenticity of the hadith of Najd at all neither do i. Bro, please I want you to go through this article when you're free. It's important http://www.dajjaal.com/liar/articles/gvokb-the-dajjaal-anti-christ-will-appear-after-70000-from-bani-ishaq-conquer-constantinople.cfmI will.....in sha Allah. Thanks |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 8:16pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
@Demmzy15, Empiree: Evidence That Proved NAJD to be Saudi Arabia and Not Iraq Narrated 'Abdullah ibn Umar: I heard Allah's apostle on the pulpit saying, "Verily, afflictions (will start) from here, "pointing towards the east, wherein the side of the head of satan comes out." {Sahih Bukhari, vol. 4, book 56, hadith 714} A similar hadith whereby prophet on the pulpit pointing towards EAST reads: Narrated Abdullah The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon and pointing to Aisha's house (I.e eastward), he said thrice, "Affliction (will appear from) here," and, from where the side of the Satan's head comes out. {vol. 4, book 53, hadith no. 336} NB: Attached is the pix of google map of Masjid an-Nabawi (towards east of the pulpit). That's never to Iraq. BACK-BREAKER PROOF Sahih Bukhari vol.4, Book 54, hadith No. 521 reads: Narrated Uqba Ibn Umar and Abu Mas'ud: Allah's Apostle pointed with his hand towards Yemen and said, "True Belief is Yemenite yonder (i.e the Yemenite had true belief and embraced Islam readily), but sternness and mercilessness are the qualities of those who are busy with their Camels and pay no attention to religion, where the two sides of the head of Satan will appear in RABI'A AND MUDAR This hadith explains the first hadith clearly. And those two tribes were in Saudi Not Iraq. Ibn Taymiyyah's Input Sheik Ibn Taymiyyah documents Ibn Abbas: The first Jumu'a that gathered in Islam after the Jumu'a of Madinah was that of Jawathi, one of the towns of al-Bahrayn. They said, "O Messenger of Allah! Between us and you are those regions of disbelievers of MUDAR and (we) cannot come to you except in the sacred month. Therefore give us a decisive order which we might put into practice and by which we shall call those who are behind us" Meaning: The people of NAJD from them [tribes of] Tamim, Asad, Ghatafan and others {Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu'a al-Fatawa (7/552)} Another documents reads: The delegation of Abd al-Ways came to the Prophet - Allah bless and greet him...and said: "O Messenger of Allah! Between us and you there are those regions of the disbelievers of MUDAR meaning by that, the people of NAJD such as Tamim, Asad and Ghatfan, because those were between al-Bahrayn and al-Madinah while Abd al-Qays are from Rabi'a and not from Mudar {Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmu'a al-Fatawa (7/607)} None of this tribes is in Iraq. All are Saudi Najdi tribes.
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| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 9:24pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
AlBaqir: I never claimed he was, you could show me where. Which among the Ahlu Sunnah Ulama interpreted that hadith based on geographical location? It's clear you never read my posts, an act of dishonesty on your part. I state again: "al-Khattaabee said: ‘the najd in the direction of the east, and for the one who is in Madeenah then his Najd would be the desert of Iraaq and it’s regions [baadiya al-Iraaq wa Nawaaheehaa] for this is to the east of the People of Madeenah. The basic meaning of Najd is that which is raised/elevated from the earth in contravention to al-Gawr for that is what is lower than it. Tihaamah [the coastal plain along the south-western and southern shores of the Arabian Peninsula] is entirely al-Gawr and Mecca is in Tihaamah.’" I hope you see it now, don't ignore please! What you posted concerning the meaning of "Najd" from your Ulama is nothing but conjecture. So your interpretation and that of yours is "Haqq". Very typical among you guys, you use hadiths of Ahl Sunnah that supports you, but shout fabricated when against you. Even a Sahabah many of you have made takfir of, you still narrate hadiths from him just because they supposedly support you. That's not right! Besides how many ahadith have been fabricated to check or balance other ahadith! What I quoted describing Najd is not an hadith per se but a commentary. They understand it more than you, in fact this isn't a matter of fabricated hadith. Every point I stated was clear and unambiguous! Again I ask you as a student of knowledge, when was Iraq established? Who founded it, who developed it? The area of Iraaq and its environs was conquered by Umar Ibn Al Khattab(RadiAllahu Anha), then it was developed subsequently by the Governors in place. Simple questions and you are telling me opinion of Ibn Hajar. Should I give you scores of different opinions from different scholars? Looks like you're taking this personal, you can if you want to! However, your suspicion is nothing but suspicion. OK! What concern the topic with Ibn Abdulwahab? Of course it does, I know what an argument as this leads to. It concerns him, moreover, scholars who have translated Najd to Iraaq did so many years before Ibn Abdulwahab(Rahimahullah). Even among the blessed progeny of Nabi Ibrahim (alaihi Salam), or the sons of Nabi Nuh, Nabi Yaqub (alaihima Salam) there existed Zalimun (transgressors). And no matter how worst a family is, a saint might come out of it. OK, I agree with you on this. The history of the Saud family and their ally, Sheik Muhammad ibn Abdulwahab and his followers; the brutal wars they fought to occupy lands whereby AlSaud family is established is there to be read through different pen of history. OK My concern is simply NAJD never your sheik. His own part in history is clear except for his loyalist trying to cover him up. Interestingly, his loyalist accepted him being a "Najdi" which appear after his names. In sha Allah we shall educate ourselves the more on Where is Najd. His name: Muhammad, His Nasab: ibn `Abd al-Wahhab ibn Sulayman ibn Ali ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Rashid, His Kunya: Abu Abdullah, His Nisba: al- Tamimi. Najd understood by the Ulama is Iraaq, shikena! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by LagosShia: 9:37pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
Demmzy15: so Iraq is the only "elevated" land relative to Medinah?  and who says it must be to the east? and if it is to the east, is Iraq to the east of Medinah or to the north? and "najduna" is possessive; meaning "our najd". how does iraq becomes the possession of arabs in the times of the Prophet (s)? |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 9:47pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
Demmzy15: So Na Ulama you guys dey follow now no longer the Salaf? I have given you more than you can chew in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim which simply knock your Ulama's theory out of the kitty! A student of knowledge learn not being dissuade by sectarianism. 1 Like |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 10:06pm On Sep 29, 2015 |
AlBaqir:I'm not sectarian you're, you pounce on hadiths that supposedly supports you and then reject others. I'll reply your so-called bone breakers(you're funny sha) tomorrow, Insha'Allah, May Allah keep us till tomorrow! 1 Like |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 2:03am On Sep 30, 2015 |
Where Is Najd? He Gave Little Speech On It. But This is Not The Video I Was Looking For. He Made An Hour Long Lecture On Najd About Two Years Ago. Can't Find The Clip Yet. This One Is Recent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw5SsSg1vLY |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by vedaxcool(m): 8:18am On Sep 30, 2015 |
AlBaqir: lol mourning erratic old man, no you mean gloating erratic old man whose first impulse was politics not condolence, this sort of behavior isn't new, but clearly shows the lows Iran is diving towards we hope it doesn't get worse than it already is. Please compare PMB statements and that erratic old man's statement and witness what we all know as human decency, rather than gloat over the death of his country men, PMB demanded a thorough investigation of the incident, rather than politicize and politick. If you are a liar, you would natural believe every other person who does not follow your line of reasoning is untruthful, so whatever your misgivings about the Saudi is left to you and Iran to keep sulking over. To you your views to me my view1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by vedaxcool(m): 8:59am On Sep 30, 2015 |
| Since the thread has been successfully diverted; Lets ask ourselves what the horn Satan looks like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZj0FZ_lkro By the way, Shias say that visiting the grave of Hussain (RA) on the day of Arafah has more reward than going for Hajj. Note this Hajj is mentioned in the Qur’an and is one of the pillars of Islam. But Shiaa want us to abandon it for Ziyarrah to Karbala You will often see Shias boasts that the trek to Karbala and the gathering there 40 days after the death of Hussain is the largest gathering on earth. Compare that to Hajj and you will know these people have their own weird idea of what Islam is all about and what Muslims should do |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Demmzy15(m): 9:34am On Sep 30, 2015 |
AlBaqir: Salam Aleikum! Evidence That Proved NAJD to be Saudi Arabia and Not Iraq Rebuttal Of Najd to be Saudi not Iraq. Narrated 'Abdullah ibn Umar: Yes I know and I've proved beyond doubt that this refers to Iraaq. Abdullah Ibn-Umar related that once, he saw the Prophet showing `Iraq with his hand, and saying: "The fitna is here, the fitna is here, the fitna is here, three times, [b]it is from here that will appear the devil's horns,"(sahih) (Reference:-Musnad-e-Ahmad Vol.10 Page.391 Hadith.6302 or 6129, Isnad considered Sahih by the Muhaddith Ahmad Shakir al-Masry) A similar hadith whereby prophet on the pulpit pointing towards EAST reads: Ibn Umar narrated that the Messenger of Allaah(sallallaahu alayhiwa sallam) prayed Fajr and then faced the people and said, "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Madeenah, O Allaah bestow your blessings in our measuring, O Allaah bestow your blessings in our Shaam and our Yemen." A person said, "And Iraq O Messenger of Allah?" He said, "from there arises Earth Quakes,trials and tribulations would come the Horn of Satan." اللهم بارك لنا في مكتنا ، اللهم بارك لنا في مدينتنا ، اللهم بارك لنا في شامنا ، و بارك لنا في صاعنا ، و بارك لنا في مدنا . فقال رجل : يا رسول الله ! و في عراقنا فأعرض عنه ، فرددها ثلاثا ، كل ذلك يقول الرجل : و في عراقنا فيعرض عنه ، فقال : بها الزلازل و الفتن ، و فيها يطلع قرن الشيطان #Al-Mujjam Awasaat Tibraani, Hadith-4230 #Musnad-e-Bazzar,Abu-Bakr Bazzar Pg.292 #Musnad Abdullah-bin-Umar Trososa pg.273 #Silsilah Sahiha of Shaikh Al-Bani, Hadith number: 2246 Another clear and unambiguous hadith, but you chose to ignore. So sad!  NB: Attached is the pix of google map of Masjid an-Nabawi (towards east of the pulpit). That's never to Iraq. LagosShia=There's a fallacy of using today's maps, this were maps drawn just 100years back and you use to judge a prophecy of 1400years?! Moreover, Muslims were known to have drawn maps from South to North. You are using the "Flat Earth" concept as used in atlas books, google map, charts etc... But the reality is that the earth is kind of elliptical (refer to:http://aerospace.wcc.hawaii.edu/shape.html). While google earth uses the "spherical concept" its not exact but more accurate than flat maps If you use the "Flat earth" map, then: Residents of Toronto should face ESE, but instead the face ENE Residents of Riyadh should face SW, but instead the face WSW and Madeenah is unambiguous since its almost N of Makkah. So as said by Ulema East of Madeenah points to the Iraq .* BACK-BREAKER PROOF Yeeeeiiii, my back! Sahih Bukhari vol.4, Book 54, hadith No. 521 reads: I boldened and made that part because it's a lie. It's either you tampered with it and it was a mistake. Which ever, please make Tawba. Here's what the exact hadith state: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 521: Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Umar and Abu Mas'ud: Allah's Apostle pointed with his hand towards Yemen and said, "True Belief is Yemenite yonder (i.e. the Yemenite, had True Belief and embraced Islam readily), but sternness and mercilessness are the qualities of those who are busy with their camels and pay no attention to the Religion where the two sides of the head of Satan will appear. Such qualities belong to the tribe of Rabi'a and Mudar." @underlined, does it state that head of satan appears here?! Seriously?! Why would you do that, I hope it's a mistake sha! Ibn Taymiyyah's Input Is horn of satan present here? Is fitna here? Is earthquakes and the likes here? I also noticed the emboldened, it's an explanation of yours. Another documents reads: This refers to when this tribes had not embraced Islam, there's no mention of fitna, horn, etc. Even Makkah before it was conquered was an harbor of pagans, so I seriously don't get your point. |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 9:43am On Sep 30, 2015 |
@Demmzy15, more ahadith to wet your appetite: The Prophet had proven "NAJD" and "IRAQ" to be separate places Sahih Muslim Book 007, Number 2666: Abu Zubair heard Jabir b. Abdullah as saying as he was asked about (the place for entering upon the) state of Ihram: I heard (and I think he carried it directly to the Apostle of Allah) him saying: For the people of Medina, Dhu'l-Hulaifa is the place for entering upon the state of Ihram, and for (the people coming through the other way, i.e Syria) it is Juhfa; for the people of IRAQ it is Dhat al-'Irq; for the people of NAJD it is Qarn (al-Manazil) and for the people of Yemen it is Yalamlam. Sunnan an-Nasai, Hadith No. 2657: Chapter 22 - The Miqat of the people of Iraq: It was narrated that 'Aisha said: "The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) designated Dhul-Hulaifah as the Miqat for the people of Al-Madinah, al-Juhfa for the people of Ash-Sham and Egypt, Dhat 'Irq for the people of Al-Iraq, Qarn for the people of NAJD and Yalamlam for the people of Yemen. 1 Like |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Nadheer15: 10:06am On Sep 30, 2015 |
AlBaqir: Salam Aleikum! Evidence That Proved NAJD to be Saudi Arabia and Not Iraq Rebuttal Of Najd to be Saudi not Iraq. Narrated 'Abdullah ibn Umar: Yes I know and I've proved beyond doubt that this refers to Iraaq. Abdullah Ibn-Umar related that once, he saw the Prophet showing `Iraq with his hand, and saying: "The fitna is here, the fitna is here, the fitna is here, three times, it is from here that will appear the devil's horns,"(sahih) (Reference:-Musnad-e-Ahmad Vol.10 Page.391 Hadith.6302 or 6129, Isnad considered Sahih by the Muhaddith Ahmad Shakir al-Masry) A similar hadith whereby prophet on the pulpit pointing towards EAST reads: Ibn Umar narrated that the Messenger of Allaah(sallallaahu alayhiwa sallam) prayed Fajr and then faced the people and said, "O Allaah bestow your blessings on our Madeenah, O Allaah bestow your blessings in our measuring, O Allaah bestow your blessings in our Shaam and our Yemen." A person said, "And Iraq O Messenger of Allah?" He said, "from there arises Earth Quakes,trials and tribulations would come the Horn of Satan." اللهم بارك لنا في مكتنا ، اللهم بارك لنا في مدينتنا ، اللهم بارك لنا في شامنا ، و بارك لنا في صاعنا ، و بارك لنا في مدنا . فقال رجل : يا رسول الله ! و في عراقنا فأعرض عنه ، فرددها ثلاثا ، كل ذلك يقول الرجل : و في عراقنا فيعرض عنه ، فقال : بها الزلازل و الفتن ، و فيها يطلع قرن الشيطان #Al-Mujjam Awasaat Tibraani, Hadith-4230 #Musnad-e-Bazzar,Abu-Bakr Bazzar Pg.292 #Musnad Abdullah-bin-Umar Trososa pg.273 #Silsilah Sahiha of Shaikh Al-Bani, Hadith number: 2246 Another clear and unambiguous hadith, but you chose to ignore. So sad! NB: Attached is the pix of google map of Masjid an-Nabawi (towards east of the pulpit). That's never to Iraq. LagosShia=There's a fallacy of using today's maps, this were maps drawn just 100years back and you use to judge a prophecy of 1400years?! Moreover, Muslims were known to have drawn maps from South to North. You are using the "Flat Earth" concept as used in atlas books, google map, charts etc... But the reality is that the earth is kind of elliptical (refer to:http://aerospace.wcc.hawaii.edu/shape.html). While google earth uses the "spherical concept" its not exact but more accurate than flat maps If you use the "Flat earth" map, then: Residents of Toronto should face ESE, but instead the face ENE Residents of Riyadh should face SW, but instead the face WSW and Madeenah is unambiguous since its almost N of Makkah. So as said by Ulema East of Madeenah points to the Iraq .* BACK-BREAKER PROOF Yeeeeiiii, my back!! Sahih Bukhari vol.4, Book 54, hadith No. 521 reads: I boldened and made that part because it's a lie. It's either you tampered with it and it was a mistake. Which ever, please make Tawba. Here's what the exact hadith state: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 521: Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Umar and Abu Mas'ud: Allah's Apostle pointed with his hand towards Yemen and said, "True Belief is Yemenite yonder (i.e. the Yemenite, had True Belief and embraced Islam readily), but sternness and mercilessness are the qualities of those who are busy with their camels and pay no attention to the Religion where the two sides of the head of Satan will appear. Such qualities belong to the tribe of Rabi'a and Mudar." @underlined, does it state that head of satan appears here?! Seriously?! Why would you do that, I hope it's a mistake sha! Ibn Taymiyyah's Input Is horn of satan present here? Is fitna here? Is earthquakes and the likes here? I also noticed the emboldened, it's an explanation of yours. Another documents reads: This refers to when this tribes had not embraced Islam, there's no mention of fitna, horn, etc. Even Makkah before it was conquered was an harbor of pagans, so I seriously don't get your point. |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 10:15am On Sep 30, 2015 |
@vedaxcool, it will be appreciated should you stick to the point of discussion. Derailing is not gentlemanly. If you don't have anything to say, Islam enjoin you to keep your mouth shot. However it will be appreciated if you quote the full text of the Old Sheik so that the whole world will see how erratic he is in caring for his nation. Please expose yourself, man. |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by vedaxcool(m): 11:03am On Sep 30, 2015 |
^^ Aren't you being a hypocrite? was this thread ever about the horn of Satan? You threw the thread off balance which is clear to all, but you still have the audacity to accuse me of derailing? Since you and your co-travelers derailing the thread are insistent on talking horn of satan from a theoretical perspective it is only natural that I maintain the discuss in practical terms. And my post shows clearly what the horn of devil looks like, imagine a Miliki saying karbala should be the Qibla, auzobillah if that isn't the horn of satan then what should it be. I will continue elucidating the point deemxzy15 is making, Iraq suits the bill appropriately, unlike you and your crew whose insistence comes from dislike of the Saudis, my points faces the issues squarely and practically! If you have no rebuttal it would serve you better to shut up and sulk! 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 11:29am On Sep 30, 2015 |
^What we are discussing here is Saudi not being able to lift up to their responsibilities. While you turn your back on series of eye-witness reports that clearly exposed the carelessness and mismanagement of the Saudi, you choose to wait for their "sahih" reports after their "transparent" investigations to the deadly matter. Then I need to remind you that nothing good comes out of NAJD except fitnah. One of your brother, Demmzy15, is somehow so pained with that because of his grand sheik. He choose to defend what is not defendable. So where did I derail the flow of this thread? You are the one going from pillar to post because of your personal problems with Iran and its leader who is so responsible and passionate about every single soul of his citizens. Now former Iraqi prime minister is your next target. Bro, you've lost it. Again if you don't have anything to post, kindly follow the prophet's advice of keeping mute. 1 Like |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by Empiree: 11:40am On Sep 30, 2015 |
^^ VEX vs BAQIR part..............20, perhaps? |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by LagosShia: 2:19pm On Sep 30, 2015 |
vedaxcool: your life is very sad and your ideology really fits your character. you keep deceiving yourself. did the former PM of Iraq say Karbala should become "the Qibla", in the sense of replacing the Ka'ba? No! if you know a bit of arabic you will understand what he said. what is the meaning of "qibla"? "qibla" means "direction, a destination you move towards". "qibla" is an arabic word that has a meaning, a literal meaning. when used literally, it doesnt mean Makkah or the holy Ka'bah. he said "Karbala should be a qibla for the Islamic world" and not "the qibla". he did not use the arabic article of "al", which is the equivalent of "the". he meant Karbala should be a destination for the Islamic world when things are improved. he then went on to mention "the Qibla" which we face in the five daily prayers (i.e. the Ka'bah/Makkah). such deception is very filthy. 2 Likes |
| Re: Crush Cause: 300 Iranians Violated Rule-Hajj Stampede by AlBaqir(m): 4:20pm On Sep 30, 2015 |
@LagosShia, vedaxcool never care or respect intellectual dialogue that deals with sectarianism. He simply (as always) want to fight dirty and poison the mind of the innocents. All the mosques in Karbala (including the rest place of Imam Hussein) have their Qibla faces Makkah. And interestingly Nouri al-Maliki faces no other Qibla except this. Him using "Karbala" to meant a Qibla for Muslims all over the world is not to change Allah's ordained Qibla but to wake Muslims and divert their attention to the resting place of the household of their Prophet who were massacred unjustly by the Ummah. The fact that all Muslims around the globe face the direction of Makkah (Qibla) at least 5 times a day. That's remembrance! So this is it especially when we take into consideration the mutawatir hadith Thaqalain where Prophet remind the Ummah by Allah about his household. Repeating that reminder three times. Today, 18-20million visit Karbala on the 10th of Ashura for Imam Hussein and the rest of the blood of the Prophet who were massacre there. In sha Allah the number increases yearly. |
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