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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) (2892 Views)
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Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 7:45am On Oct 01, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: You know me well, i don't exchange words with children when they start clowning... 6 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by KingEbukasBlog(m): 7:50am On Oct 01, 2015 |
johnydon22: Why so pained ' I clearly said it was my opinion . 1 Like |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 12:55pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
Krystalzkris: Lmao... Wailing wailers kwa... |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by Krystalzkris(f): 1:28pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
johnydon22:ehe na.. Those who wouldnt understand d post buh will come here to wail and talk nonsense 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by justlove91(m): 4:43pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
@op I commemorate you for the write which aims at showing uh absurdities of the religious God. I must say many people associate God with religion and. that's where the problem lies and where religion fuels the disbelieve in God. God is not like what religion depicts, that kind of God is a figment of their imagination. God is logical anything illogical should not be associated with God. I only will urge atheists to look for God else where, I repeat religion has nothing to say about God, they have no idea. |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by justlove91(m): 4:45pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
@op I commend you for the write which aims at showing the absurdities of the religious God. I must say many people associate God with religion and that's where the problem lies and where religion fuels the disbelieve in God. God is not like what religion depicts, that kind of God is a figment of their imagination. God is logical anything illogical should not be associated with God. I only will urge atheists to look for God else where, I repeat religion has nothing to say about God, they have no idea. |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 4:54pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
justlove91: Good so now quick questions. (1)How did you get to know about your own God? (2)How did you know your own God is the correct one and not Allah, yahweh, zeus or other religious Gods out there? (3)Mind postulating your method of deduction about your own God concept by providing us with actual proofs that substantiates your claims.. Thanks between 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by justlove91(m): 5:31pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
johnydon22:Like I said in my post God is logical, and any idea I see of God that is logical to me is the truth. You pointed out the falsehood of the religion God because it's not logical. For example I was born into a Muslim family and when I found out their idea of God is illogical to me and contradicts my morality I left it. So am for logic |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 5:52pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
justlove91:You sure know you didn't answer my question sir!! (1)How did you get to know about your own God? (2)How did you know your own God is the correct one and not Allah, yahweh, zeus or other religious Gods out there? (3)Mind postulating your method of deduction about your own God concept by providing us with actual proofs that substantiates your claims.. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by justlove91(m): 6:02pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
johnydon22:I answered your question already bro. We as humans are logical beings which means a God who created us should be logical also. So any idea or attribute I see of this God which is not logical is definitely is false. |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by justlove91(m): 6:38pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
johnydon22:1. Through studying and independent research. 2. Because my own concept of God is logical to me and those with open mind. I only disagree with Allah or Yehwey because their concept contradicts my reasoning. 3. You talk of PROOF as if you will even take the time to check it out before dismissing it. You asked for proof from me before, and I created this thread because of you https://www.nairaland.com/2173445/afterlife-proof-atheists-whoever-cares only to see that you don't even read the books before you start refuting them. I know you don't just wake up one day and become an atheist, you did your studies, likewise if you really want to know about the existence of God you should be able to at least read the proof presented after all you asked for proof. Those books are not religious books so don't tell me you know their content already. All I see you(and other atheists ) refuting always is the religion concept of God. Let me just ask you this question: Have you ever taken the time to look for God OUTSIDE religion? 1 Like |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 6:50pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
justlove91:Through research of what and what? This still doesn't mean your own God concept is the real one and not yahweh. . After all you have just shown that your concept is a personal projection of your thoughts and not an existential entity in actuality. Near death experiences are illusionary projection of the brain during the state of clinical death, The brain is the box of perception and illusion and remains the last organ in the body to shut down after death. NED experiences is common among heart attack patients and has always been found to create illusions found in the religious views of the patient. it is not proof of anything neither does it lean any wait on your own God concept. You God concept remains a claim on your own part of which you need to tender actual proofs not lay out more claims..
Last i checked here i am not arguing with you here over religious concepts of God but yours. The sun is an existential entity that doesn't need you to lay claims for it because it is right there beaming at you. Please provide actual proof of your God here and not lay out more absurd claims 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by justlove91(m): 7:10pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
johnydon22:The books I posted has nothing to do with near death which shows that you haven't read the books, you're just repeating your preconceived ideologies. Check out what I presented before asking for more proof as if you're that serious to know. In fact I didn't expect this from you, you're not handling it in a scientific manner at all. To have a scientific mind is to have an open mind before drawing conclusions. Near death ko And don't forget to answer my question: Have you ever look for God existence OUTSIDE religion? |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 7:19pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
justlove91:Oh meeeehn i just clicked the link now ... seriously the ghost story thread you created sometime ago... for goodness sake i am tired of nonsensical claims here .. Nobody needs to look anywhere for the existence of something that should be existential in the first place.. Like i said above, i am not seeing you pouring out ridiculous e-books to assert the existence of the sun. Any baseless claim should be treated as one until substantiated by actual proof. I repeat again, proffer actual proof of the existence of your own God or don't just waste my time any further... 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by justlove91(m): 7:59pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
johnydon22:What I can deduce from this reply is that it's wrong to claim that God doesn't exist until we've all knowledge and are sure God didn't really exist. And this is what am always saying and trying to let atheists see, which is you just can't confirm that their is no God because your dont know everything, the honourable position to take is to be skeptical, create the possibility God MIGHT exist after all there are so many thing we don't know yet. That's why I prefer to be agnostic than to affirm authoritatively that there is nothing like God and there is NO possibility that God exist like atheists do. I don't have any issue with atheists than how can they be completely sure God doesn't exist. At least agnostics have an open mind, they're open to possibility of God's existence, they're not close minded like atheists. Again, the message am trying to really pass across is don't be too sure there is no God as if you know everything. Am not asking anybody to believe in God sheepishly without asking question, even the books I posted on that thread are not meant to "convert" anybody but to create that element of doubt that you MIGHT be wrong in your conviction that there is no God, it's good to doubt sometimes and I don't oppose questioning anything that don't go with your reasoning all am saying is don't be too presumptuous. It's when you're too presumptuous that atheism becomes a believe system you can't even challenge yourself. I wouldn't have this conversation with an agnostic because they're open to the POSSIBILITY of the existence of God. Never say Never |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by onetrack(m): 9:03pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
KingEbukasBlog: I actually do that sometimes. Occasionally I debate a group of Muslims in a certain bar from time to time (we are 'regulars' so to speak), one of whom is a mallam, which is good because he can actually give the verses in Arabic and discuss the translation. They all know I'm atheist, but they all drink alcohol including the mallam so they can hardly be judgmental. |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by KingEbukasBlog(m): 9:14pm On Oct 01, 2015 |
onetrack: Lolz ... see I was right . And johnny thought I was mocking him Lol |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by Shollyps(m): 9:03am On Oct 07, 2015 |
johnydon22:you av not written about your education life....are you a graduate..if yes...your school,the department n year ...probably MSC or PhD aswell..you are very intelligent.. lolz ..also wen did you become an atheist?.. I mean the year..who/wat prompt you to become an atheist .explain in details...are you still attending Church,maybe because of the pressure from your parent.. thanks...#dairies |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 11:04am On Oct 28, 2015 |
Shollyps:when are you opening yours? |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by Shollyps(m): 11:59am On Oct 28, 2015 |
johnydon22:you mean when I will write about myself? |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by demolagilbert: 6:55pm On Nov 01, 2015 |
You're an intelligent fella..I'll give you that. Not gonna write a long epistle, and this is not a rebuttal. But even science and ur intellect are inspired and driven by a force. Science has offered a lot of explanations for quite a number of things but i can tell you that the greater percentage of erstwhile intangible things, occurences in the world today can never be explained by science. To Reason is vital, and i employ it and that is why i cannot be deluded by religion. I believe i have a life and a purpose and a direction and a maker guiding me thru it all. Not a pastor, not a priest, not my family, none of that. In my brief journey in life so far i have hd experiences that leave me in no doubt at all that my GOD exists. Every man must chose his own path and what he will stand for, and i have chosen that, and i live that. GOD is not remotely any of the things you highlighted here. He is GOD! Everything and everywhere and he doesn't need praise or acknowledgement, or approval to function. I praise him not because he demands or bullies me to, but because he deserves it, he is worthy of it. My decision to praise or not to praise doesn't make him any more GOD or any less GOD. He doesn't arm-twist or threaten or wreak havoc to make a point. He is all-powerful, all knowing, all perfect. He has no enemy, he cant because he is all-powerful. Satan is not an enemy of GOD, he is enemy to the children of GOD. I would say GOD has given us all the choice and liberty to be whatever, do whatever and believe whatever. It neither diminishes not increases what he IS. The way i see it, as we all go thru life and it's experiences, we can live like we hv a powerful maker charting a course for us and knowing he is there all the way, OR we could rely on our wisdom, experiences and understanding in life's journey, OR we could live life being flat out evil and antagonistic to all that is good, in other words in satan's camp. In the end, WE make that choice. I know i have made mine. johnydon22: |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 9:19pm On Nov 01, 2015 |
demolagilbert: Thanks you too
quite correct and this is called "Curiosity" Understanding you do not know and striving to know.. That is what drives study and our ability to know..
I quite don't agree here about things that can NEVER be explained. . . You don't have an explanation to them doesn't mean it doesn't have an explanation. Having a mindset "It can never be explained" is an enemy of striving to know these things because first you have established that "You cannot" I for one understand there are things that have not been explained but i'd rather not filled the gap left by the ignorance with assumptions. We don't know means you don't and so strive to know and not assume. . . Through systematic deductions and consistent study can we make sense of what is and not through unfounded assumptions that clouds our drive to strive to know. I think personally that Reason is necessary rather than being just a sufficient factor...
There isn't much difference between you and i except that: I know i have a life and i have a purpose of which goes in coincide with what i as an independent entity wants it to be. And i need no external unfounded claims of a maker guiding any of my actions, i am responsible for my own actions. I am responsible for my own standards and i alone enforce it of which i choose to be in conformity with pleasing mutual human interactions...
When asked of these experiences one would not help but quite notice it is mostly experiences people tend to infuse into the claim of personal Gods. And this is no different from many things i laid out in this thread, it all lies in the perception of different individuals.
Of course the concepts of God differs in every ramification, am sure we have pantheistic and deistic God concepts.... [b] You see when one look at this post one could not help you are a Christian trying to distance his own idea of God from what the basis of his beliefs say it is. -Going from the bible this God gets jealous when one worships something else.. This jealousy is stark insecurity and blatant childishness and unlike you defence up there connotes a being yearning for worship. - Going by the doctrines of the Christian and Islamic faith and most other theistic religions on this planet (of which my post was addressing) This God is busy going to judge who to burn and who not to based on the tilt of their belief. Unlike your defence this God concepts still exhibits this forceful coercion of ensuring belief through fearful submissive tyranny of judgment based on a belief. -Still from the bible this God loves the smell of burning flesh and so many other childish characteristics that betrays such constructs to be nothing more than mundane assertions of an extra-ordinary claim. For the simple fact that you are trying to distance the concept of God you want to believe from the basic tenets of such concepts as derived from theistic fundamentals of which you lean on, it betrays a mind that find such ideas as absurd as i find it but tries to modify it to suite his own ideas. . . When one believes what he wants but yet with a basis from a fundamental source then obviously that is one that believes himself I find the idea of personal Gods a noble construct but yet a childish one in the explanation of what is and the fables accompanying these claims to be eloquent but naive primitive and feeble assertions. [/b]
If there is such a being then he is making quite a mess of it. you see living our lives for a greater good of humanity or aspiring to live ethical lives in conformity with societal goodness has absolutely nothing to do with living as if there is a thing like a powerful maker. [b] It is a good thing you have made your choice of believing in a personal God who is all powerful and all good creator of the universe but runs a bizarre show of baseless test run on unknowing feeble humans wriggling in human business like some flat out punny princess. I on the other hand would rather rely on what i can learn and make out of the world as i know it, i'd rather rely on my reasons, study, systematic deductions and mutual pleasing societal actions than delude myself with the idea of personal Gods. I lack such a thing as faith it takes to believe such ideas or the stories that accompanies it. Our actions as humans can only bear a weight of right or wrong when it comes in contrast with its effects on others and things around us... I did not choose to not believe in God, No as a matter of fact i am just being honest with myself to point out irrationalities or live with the assumptions of there is when it has shown not to be anymore than primitive gap filler and wishful thinking.. [/b] 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by demolagilbert: 12:09am On Nov 02, 2015 |
I am a scientist by all means, and yet i still maintain that despite the giant strides we have made in science, a great percentage of phenomena defy explanation. Till today despite that we have studied the blood and know virtually all that there is to know about it, science still cannot make blood.....and dats even citing something as comprehensible as blood. How can science explain how a simple pituitary gland controls the entire body without fail from birth till death. The pituitary gland is so amazing it know what your body needs, or even what you want to think or feel before hand..how can science explain how the most complex machine known as the brain came into being from series of simple cell divisions. Look at it critically, and you will find that from the very simple to the very complex, even the strides of science are still small fragments of a much much bigger picture. Science is great but it is limited. That's my take. As per my life's experiences, i would know better. I don't need to over-flog that. Burning of flesh? Lets be specific, we'r talkin animal flesh. None of all the numerous rites conducted during that foregone era are of any relevance in our time. A heartfelt prayer more than suffices. And if you look at it critically right from the start, GOD never got it wrong, Man did and always has. Tell a child not to touch a flame n you can bet he/she will.. n only learn from the burn that will follow. It's inherent. I wont bother going into the doctrines, commandments, rites or comparative analysis of Old vs. New testament ish..none of that. There's a saying that if you dont stand for something, you fall for anything. My stand? I go about my daily bizniz whilst recognizing that force that flung the sun to burn in space, that painted the night skies with stars, that did not cause my stomach to be disintegrated by the same acid it produces. And he doesnt need me, nor my dad, or mum, or any future kids i might have to be GOD. He just IS. I KNOW i need him, i choose to believe he is the source of all i am and have, and all that i will be and will have. Quote author=johnydon22 post=39590462 Thanks you too[/i][/b] quite correct and this is called "Curiosity" Understanding you do not know and striving to know.. That is what drives study and our ability to know.. I quite don't agree here about things that can NEVER be explained. . . You don't have an explanation to them doesn't mean it doesn't have an explanation. Having a mindset "It can never be explained" is an enemy of striving to know these things because first you have established that "You cannot" I for one understand there are things that have not been explained but i'd rather not filled the gap left by the ignorance with assumptions. We don't know means you don't and so strive to know and not assume. . . Through systematic deductions and consistent study can we make sense of what is and not through unfounded assumptions that clouds our drive to strive to know. I think personally that Reason is necessary rather than being just a sufficient factor... There isn't much difference between you and i except that: I know i have a life and i have a purpose of which goes in coincide with what i as an independent entity wants it to be. And i need no external unfounded claims of a maker guiding any of my actions, i am responsible for my own actions. I am responsible for my own standards and i alone enforce it of which i choose to be in conformity with pleasing mutual human interactions... When asked of these experiences one would not help but quite notice it is mostly experiences people tend to infuse into the claim of personal Gods. And this is no different from many things i laid out in this thread, it all lies in the perception of different individuals. Of course the concepts of God differs in every ramification, am sure we have pantheistic and deistic God concepts.... [b] You see when one look at this post one could not help you are a Christian trying to distance his own idea of God from what the basis of his beliefs say it is. -Going from the bible this God gets jealous when one worships something else.. This jealousy is stark insecurity and blatant childishness and unlike you defence up there connotes a being yearning for worship. - Going by the doctrines of the Christian and Islamic faith and most other theistic religions on this planet (of which my post was addressing) This God is busy going to judge who to burn and who not to based on the tilt of their belief. Unlike your defence this God concepts still exhibits this forceful coercion of ensuring belief through fearful submissive tyranny of judgment based on a belief. -Still from the bible this God loves the smell of burning flesh and so many other childish characteristics that betrays such constructs to be nothing more than mundane assertions of an extra-ordinary claim. For the simple fact that you are trying to distance the concept of God you want to believe from the basic tenets of such concepts as derived from theistic fundamentals of which you lean on, it betrays a mind that find such ideas as absurd as i find it but tries to modify it to suite his own ideas. . . When one believes what he wants but yet with a basis from a fundamental source then obviously that is one that believes himself I find the idea of personal Gods a noble construct but yet a childish one in the explanation of what is and the fables accompanying these claims to be eloquent but naive primitive and feeble assertions. [/b] If there is such a being then he is making quite a mess of it. you see living our lives for a greater good of humanity or aspiring to live ethical lives in conformity with societal goodness has absolutely nothing to do with living as if there is a thing like a powerful maker. [b] It is a good thing you have made your choice of believing in a personal God who is all powerful and all good creator of the universe but runs a bizarre show of baseless test run on unknowing feeble humans wriggling in human business like some flat out punny princess. I on the other hand would rather rely on what i can learn and make out of the world as i know it, i'd rather rely on my reasons, study, systematic deductions and mutual pleasing societal actions than delude myself with the idea of personal Gods. I lack such a thing as faith it takes to believe such ideas or the stories that accompanies it. Our actions as humans can only bear a weight of right or wrong when it comes in contrast with its effects on others and things around us... I did not choose to not believe in God, No as a matter of fact i am just being honest with myself to point out irrationalities or live with the assumptions of there is when it has shown not to be anymore than primitive gap filler and wishful thinking.. [/b][/quote] |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 11:10am On Dec 03, 2015 |
demolagilbert:Phenomenons that have no explanations YET are phenomenons that require to be studied, scrutinized... Once anything is studied, the whole picture becomes clearer the main problem is studying it.. As a scientist which you say you are asserting that things defy explanations can never be explained makes one question what exactly you mean by claiming a scientist.. Because last i checked science never asserts nothing can be explained, only the necessary approach needs to be taken. Ancient men couldn't explain what the milky way band was, now we have .. nothing is beyond ascertaining as long as you have the right approach and means towards that subject. So you are banking on the gap of what is in order to get a basis? that is starkly shallow. Humans never knew how to grow flesh in the lab, now we do... Meats are being grown in the lab from one single cell, human flesh is being regrown instead of using plastic. Gaps left by ignorance is never supposed to be filled by assumptions.. Its so amazing yet it over secretes in some and results to Gigantism and under secretes in many and results to dwarfism.. I thought you claimed to be a scientist yet for one with such claim you sound very off the hook.. there is never a stipulated way of natural manifestation. Please stop roping your ignorance of a premise as a basis to instigate correctness of an assumption. it is quite simple, interactions of different and distinct simple cells results into a larger and complex result.. I wonder if you view science as some kind of knowledge fountain. Science is study, if there is nothing unanswered will there be need to study? Science is a method of systematic deduction through consistent study to reach a truthful approximation and never at any point asserts to have reached an absolute truth because it recognizes that there is no limit to what is to learn. No offence meant but you don't sound to me like one scientifically inclined.
I do not see how even in the least sense address the point.. something big enough to create the universe comes to a small rocky dot and is asking for the smell of burnt animals because it loves you. None of you ever realize how ridiculous you all sound regurgitating such absurd savagery..
Not when there is no need to keep the flame there in the first place.. i do not need to even banter of such ridiculous myths here.. it is plain myth and has no sway of reality. That you believe such stories by the jews (not even your own people) is your own cup of tea and a product of your own gullibility. But gravity is responsible for this, gravity is responsible for the sun you see, for the nuclear fusion that makes it burn not some humanoid and gravity is not a force sir but an effect due to space/time distortion. . . . So much for claiming to be a scientist. And you keep woowing me with such absurd comment... the stars were not painted into the night sky but are visible because that part of the planet is facing away from the sun and so the distant light source can be visible. Am sure you know this, "painting the night sky with stars" is a incredibly nonsensical statement and keeps making one wonder what it takes to claim scientist when ridiculous ancient beliefs still influence your thinking. It is hugely disappointing.
And here lies that preposterous belief.. attributing unrelated events to some assumptive mythical humanoid that has anger issues somewhere.. Well everyone has the right to believe what ever they want or even to think the rain is because the Gods are pissing.. sharing this belief in public is when i challenge and refute it.. |
Re: Questioning The Implausibilities 2 (reason Over Faith) by johnydon22(m): 5:07pm On Feb 25, 2016 |
menesheh:You are not back from Kafanchan yet |
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