hahn:


At the end of the day you are still going to end up in the "hell" fire of over 5000 other religions. Good luck

RiloKiley:


You exaggerate.

There are only four religions that believe in hellfire: Asatru, Christianity, Islam and Zoroastrianism.

There are actually 7: Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Greek, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Tibetan Buddhism

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/03/23/heaven-and-hell-according-to-various-religions/

The fact that they contradict each other only means they a product of man's imaginations.

the funny thing is, all these hell fires have one thing in common; The punishment of the wicked. So its safe to say it might be one and the same hellfire.

The fact that they have something in common doesn't make them the same. Christians believe that you can't get into heaven without believing in Jesus, John 3:16, just as Muslims believe all Christians will go to hell for believing in Jesus.

Wont it be better for you to aim for goodness so as to avoid the eternal damnation of your soul in hell?

This is where you get it wrong. I don't have to believe in god to be good. If you are good just because your believe in god then you have a problem. I believe in being good because it is good. Simple.

Why bargain the whole of an unknown eternity over a life so fleeting that you dont even know one day from the next?

Keyword here: Unknown. The concept of "eternity" is a selfish one. If you can't remember where you where before you came to earth, why are you so concerned about where you are going? Don't you think it is more important to do your best here on earth, which is evidently real, instead of focusing on an eternity that is nothing more than an assumption? Since the beginning of time, no one has ever died, gone to heaven or hell and come back to tell us the story. All the different stories about people who have visited heaven or hell are contradictory depending on the religion of the narrator.

We are all, all of us, me and you, definitely going to DIE one day. Are you 100% sure hell doesn't exist? 100% sure?

At this point, I am 100% sure hell doesn't exist. How? Because no one has ever seen it. At this point it is only a religious fantasy

What will it take from you to believe in God?

Believing in god, for me, is mental stress and is synonymous to me subjecting myself to mental delusion and hoping for what doesn't exist. If god is real, we wouldn't be having this discussion, it would have been evident just as we don't argue about the existence of the sun.

hahn:

RiloKiley:



There are actually 7: Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Greek, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Tibetan Buddhism

http://www.neatorama.com/2007/03/23/heaven-and-hell-according-to-various-religions/

The fact that they contradict each other only means they a product of man's imaginations.

The fact that they have something in common doesn't make them the same. Christians believe that you can't get into heaven without believing in Jesus, John 3:16, just as Muslims believe all Christians will go to hell for believing in Jesus.

This is where you get it wrong. I don't have to believe in god to be good. If you are good just because your believe in god then you have a problem. I believe in being good because it is good. Simple.

Keyword here: Unknown. The concept of "eternity" is a selfish one. If you can't remember where you where before you came to earth, why are you so concerned about where you are going? Don't you think it is more important to do your best here on earth, which is evidently real, instead of focusing on an eternity that is nothing more than an assumption? Since the beginning of time, no one has ever died, gone to heaven or hell and come back to tell us the story. All the different stories about people who have visited heaven or hell are contradictory depending on the religion of the narrator.

At this point, I am 100% sure hell doesn't exist. How? Because no one has ever seen it. At this point it is only a religious fantasy

[b]Believing in god, for me, is mental stress [/b]and is synonymous to me subjecting myself to mental delusion and hoping for what doesn't exist. If god is real, we wouldn't be having this discussion, it would have been evident just as we don't argue about the existence of the sun.

RiloKiley:


Greek( I guess you mean the greco-roman belief) does not believe in hell fire but a shadowy underworld.

Hinduism doesnt believe in hellfire but in re-incarnation until you gain perfection.

Judaism believes in a shadowy dark afterlife. No hellfire.

Buddhism believes in rebirth. death connotes a return to mother earth.

RiloKiley:


The Christian faith represents approximately one third of the world's population and is the largest religion in the world. Catholics alone make up 1.09billion members worldwide. Your statement about God being obsolete is either culled out of ignorance or scepticism

As per the old testament, One cannot know where one is going to if one doesn't know where he is coming from.

RiloKiley:


Greek( I guess you mean the greco-roman belief) does not believe in hell fire but a shadowy underworld. Hinduism doesnt believe in hellfire but in re-incarnation until you gain perfection. Judaism believes in a shadowy dark afterlife. No hellfire. Buddhism believes in rebirth. death connotes a return to mother earth.

So. There are four.

Point is, you exaggerated.

The thing is, they dont contradict each other. Evil people will go to hell. good people will attain enlightenment or heaven. It shows a similar source, not dissention.

I stand corrected. But then, according to some estimates, there are roughly 4,200 religions in the world. Each and every one of these religions have separate views about the supreme being. None have ever seen it. In Christianity, there are about 33,000 different denominations. This alone is contradictory and indeed confusing in itself. The only similar source evident is the fact that they are all man made concepts. Or do you mean to say that god revealed himself in 4,200 ways and counting?


So you admit though that they have something in common?

Yes, they do. They are all delusions. I mentioned that before

Everyone has their beleif. You have none. You are in a precarious position.

This is where you get it wrong. The fact that I do not subscribe to a particular belief gives me the freedom to study and appreciate all beliefs without prejudice. I understand where everyone else is coming from and I am able to observe without any emotional attachment. This actually gives me an edge.

I knew you would say this. You think I'm going to start threathening you with fire and brimstone. Nope. Its better you do good out of love than out of fear. As an athiest I believe you have no higher priniciples whatsoever, correct me if I am wrong. you make your own rules and choose whether to be good or evil. You have nothing to check your behaviour apart from your own self. As a human being that is a precarious position to be in. you will agree with me that it is natural for man to be selfish, to look out for his own interest first before others. To do whatever they can and get away with it. Evil abounds everywhere and it is on the increase. If all men were allowed to do whatever they felt was right then there would be chaos. It is only natural for man to set down certain laws to govern all this unruliness. Just as there are societal laws to prevent chaos also there are spiritual laws to govern your spiritual life.

[b]Well, you are wrong. I believe in being good to all and as a matter of fact, this is one of the reasons that has led to my being atheist. We are all born with a natural understanding of what is good and what is evil. I don't need a holy book to know that killing my mother is evil or that taking what doesn't belong to me is bad. All men are guided by their heart and the "natural" knowledge of what is good or evil. Besides, the concept of good and evil are subjective. It is a fact that more evil is committed by theists than by atheists. When last did you hear that an atheist bombed somewhere up? There have been more records of religious wars by Christians and Muslims than atheists. The aluu 4 and all other lynchings around the country are carried out by religious folks. The victims are also religious. Can you name one event of where an atheist initiated a war? The early slave traders were Christians. ISIS, BH and a host of other terrorist groups are all products of religion.

Everyone is born an atheist until someone, parents/family/school/society, starts telling them lies and that is why there are many versions of god because every culture, due to their lack of understanding of nature and the world, all created this concept to compensate or excuse their ignorance. When asked, what happened here? Instead of a simple, "I don't know", they'll say, "god did it". When trying to sell their personal beliefs or concepts they say, "god said....".

The laws in the bible were all conceived by men but in order to enforce it they said, "god said". I guess it makes it more believable. When Abraham had his own little "psycho moment", he said god told him to kill his son and today he is celebrated as a hero. If your neighbor wakes up in the morning and tells you god told him to kill his son, will you support him and tell him to go ahead or will you call the police?[/b]

Why bargain the whole of an unknown eternity over a life so fleeting that you dont even know one day from the next?

Again, keyword "unknown". Why are you so bothered about what is unknown and has never been proven?

There is nothing selfish about this concept.

It is a selfish concept. You want to go to heaven and enjoy eternity while you feel that "sinners" deserve to burn in hell for sin which god created.

Nobody told you not to live your life on earth to the fullest as long as it doesn't involve hurting your fellow man.

They don't need to. Like i mentioned, we are all born with the knowledge of good and evil.

We ought to be concerned about where we are going because wherever that place is it is eternal. It will last longer than time itself.

What is your proof of eternity?

And since the dawn of time the same message has been drummed into man's head that there is something more out there. There is no smoke without fire.

Yes, the concept of eternity started with primitive people who believed in flying horses and talking dragons

It will take nothing from your life to believe in an afterlife and in heaven except you have selfish ideals or you are holding on to some hate or lust or whatever.

Neither will it add anything. Please, stop assuming that just because I don't believe in god I am evil. It is not helping this conversation.

If anything it will give you peace of mind knowing you are in safe hands both here on earth and in the eternity whether it exists or not.

I already have peace of mind now that I don't have to bother if my god is displeased that I am not serving him. Afterall, yahweh is a jealous god

I like the way you say at this point, that means if tomorrow you saw proof of hell, you'll believe, right?

Of course. I believe in what I see. If god can say "hi" and give me a handshake I will believe in him.

@bold is the crux of the matter. If you are so morally upright as you earlier claimed, believing in God should be a walk in the park for you. So why would it be mental stress? What exactly would you risk giving up by believing in God?

We are all human and are designed to err. I am not perfect and I learn everyday as well as make mistakes. Believing in god is difficult because I cannot believe in god simply because everyone else does. I have never seen it so to me it doesn't exist. If it loves me so much, it will appear to me and not expect me to read a book written by primitive ignorant men who believed the world was flat or that the moon was split up or that the world once stopped especially when it knows i risk eternal damnation.

By believing in god, i will be risking my sanity.

johnydon22:
stop speeding. . Here greeks do not believe a literal hell fire but a concept called Hades which was mutilated by christianity to mean hell afterwards..

Greek mythology have a place of torment inside hades called tartarus, hahn was correct



Wronger than wrong here.. Hinduism believe in a hell Naraka .. stop being in a haste ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism)

This is true, ever wondered how yahweh all of a sudden hired a hell fire when the christians got hold of it.… Judaic yahweh has no hell, christian yahweh does. .

Wrong again. . Buddhism borrows myths and concepts from Hinduism and so also accommodates the concept of Naraka (hell)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)

Only that the concept of judgment is not found in buddhism, Karma is what determines whether you will be born into Naraka in Buddhism...


There are actually more than 20 religions with concepts of hell both you and Hahn are wrong there.

Even in some african religions there is Hetgwauge of haida and kuzimu of swahili... Check before laying out confident assertions that are quite wrong..

johnydon22:
Hey guys, who dah fvck said morality is religion here? That person obviously needs psychiatric evaluation.... as a matter of urgency..

johnydon22:
stop speeding. . Here greeks do not believe a literal hell fire but a concept called Hades which was mutilated by christianity to mean hell afterwards..

Greek mythology have a place of torment inside hades called tartarus, hahn was correct



Wronger than wrong here.. Hinduism believe in a hell Naraka .. stop being in a haste ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism)

This is true, ever wondered how yahweh all of a sudden hired a hell fire when the christians got hold of it.… Judaic yahweh has no hell, christian yahweh does. .

Wrong again. . Buddhism borrows myths and concepts from Hinduism and so also accommodates the concept of Naraka (hell)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)

Only that the concept of judgment is not found in buddhism, Karma is what determines whether you will be born into Naraka in Buddhism...


There are actually more than 20 religions with concepts of hell both you and Hahn are wrong there.

Even in some african religions there is Hetgwauge of haida and kuzimu of swahili... Check before laying out confident assertions that are quite wrong..

menesheh:



why not go and reread hahn comment, he used "gradually becoming obsolete" he never quoted any number.
that something is going into extinction doesn't make it non-existent. Our contemporary life style and laws guiding us are no longer dependent on any holy book or cultural practices , even in some middle eastern countries that are still practicing theocracy, they are forming new laws to conform with 21ST happenings and technology.

studies upon studies have shown that most people just answered to be christains and religious just for face value but dont really give any damn about the tenets of such religion.


You said nothing about the old testament.

RiloKiley:


Thanks for the links.
You will notice in my response to hahn that we were discussing "hellfire" an eternal place burning with fire and brimstone. Hence my postulations were on "hellfire" and not a hell or underworld.

In that light:

Naraka as you call it is a place of torment, but there is no mention of fires and it is not eternal but a temporary place of punishment. I stand to be corrected.

Tartarus was a stronghold for holding the enemies of the greek gods,namely cronos and other monsters. It is true that one or two humans won the unfortunate rights of being held here for eternity but they are in the minority. also tartarus is a place of darkness and ultimate chaos. No hell"fire" and the soul of the greek faithful (or unfaithful as it were) were hardly deemed dangerous or threatening enough to be thrown into tartarus.

as for the 20 or more concepts of hell, you will still agree with me that your friend exaggerated.

hahn:

hahn:


@bolded, yes, I did. I already admitted that and I am grateful that you and johnnydon22 have liberated me from my ignorance and also saved me from the shame of saying it in public. That is the only reason why I enjoy engaging people more intelligent than I am

So, can we please move on?

RiloKiley:

When you type like this its difficult to quote back, don't know why.
anyway, I read your response. Like I said earlier, believe whatever makes you happy. I still don't get why you are so angered about Christianity though.

He is angered about Christianity

johnydon22:


He is angered about Christianity

RiloKiley:


and so Christianity is going "gradually" into extinction after 2000 years and counting, even though it remains the one of the three major religions of the world till date.
Dont hold your breath.

RiloKiley:

It appears so. I may be wrong. I have been following his posts on religion since yesterday.

johnydon22:
Since yesterday? Woow thats a long time..

And many have been following mine for months and none have concluded i am angered by any religion.. ( As a matter of fact i am only angered by Jihad)

So i take it you mean he is angered at Christianity because he argues against Christianity or is there anywhere he asserted to be angry at Christianity?

Or is arguing against a religion synonymous to angry at it according to you?

RiloKiley:

hmmm,
You actually sound angrier for some reason.
I apologise for the use of that word then.

johnydon22:


Now am sure everyone can see you obviously have no idea what it is to sound angry perhaps.... You need your sleep now..

johnydon22:


Now am sure everyone can see you obviously have no idea what it is to sound angry perhaps.... You need your sleep now..

RiloKiley:

I agree.
goodnight.