raumdeuter:


If govt dont make genuine efforts to promote STEM courses for all, then at a point there wont be enough Scientists the economy would suffer and America would have to depend on foreign inventions.

In my opinion, I believe if you put your mind to it you would do it especially academics. If STEM were the only courses available would women or people stop going to University?

STEM courses are harder and naturally most human beings would like to go for easier things. Show some people especially women some Maths equation, they wont even bother to look at it, They would just say i dont like maths. Show them Chemical equations they would say i cant understand Chemistry

For example I know many people who in Nigeria claimed they dont have a passion for sciences, they cant learn chemistry, or physics. when they get to US and they see thats the only thing that pays I have seen many of them graduate Pharmacy Nursing etc. So where did the passion suddenly come from?

Thats what the govt is trying to do. make people, coerce people to NOT go for the easy way out. Collect Thousands in Student loans to go study Gender studies

Like I always tell my wife, Any child of mine who wants to study any yeye Romance languages or Philosophy would have to pay for it himself

I was just going to point that out. Humans like the easy way out and not just a gender. When it also comes to choosing what hard course to go for, people will choose different kinds of hard. Pharmacy for example has a substantial amount of chemistry and maths. We had to do a lot of drug calculations and medicinal chemistry. However it's a female dorminated area at least here in the Uk and because of that, some people actually think it's an easy course.

bukatyne:
I honestly doubt that . One engineer with passion is better than 10 engineers without. People (Male and female would always go for STEM courses).

I am looking at it from this angle: University A has the capacity to admit 500 STEM students for 2015/2016 session. Would it not be better if there are 480 interested men and 20 interested women admitted than 300 men with 200 women (out of which only 20 is interested) admitted leaving 180 men who had interest? In Nigeria especially, students lose fire and passion for their dream courses the longer they stay at home.

The gvt isnt reducing the quota for Male STEM, they just want to increase female STEM

E.g 300 male 20 female they want to make it 300 males 200 female at least 500 STEM is better than 320 STEM

And increasing the numbers makes sense because 10 Engineers can only work on so much regardless of their passion.
A passionless STEM person is more important to the modern society than a passionate Philosopher or Linguist

True; however, I can do well in a course WITHOUT having passion for it and drop it like fire immediately I am through with school

Very true

Umemployment

if we encourage 200 women and 100 drop it after, the 100 that would stay is a benefit to the society than not having them at all

Nigerian father himself
Wouldn't you like to have a Wole Soyinka?

I know a girl who started with Engineering, dropped to one easy psychology graduated while her former Engineering colleagues were getting 65k out of school she couldnt even get any job. She now decided to go for a masters again in another useless course Criminal Justice still no job she was working as a barber despite having a Masters. This was someone that had the intelligence to be an Engineer

Look at schools its usually those who study all these yeye courses that have time to party around. Go to any club or party and count the number of STEM students vs non STEM

Future of the country just wasting away studying Philosophy and Languages

TV01:

Absolutely agree regards equal opportunities - there are more women in medical school in Britain than men. Nobody is looking to gender balance things or incentivice men to take up medicine - even though the imbalace comes at cost, as fully 60%of female Dr's opt for p/t work or leave the profession within 10 years, leaving a problematic shortfall in healthcare delivery.


Dat's how it be !

TV

If the female Drs leave within 10yrs, I doubt there would be a shortfall because Drs male & female will be produced yearly.

babygirlfl:


I am all for equality and choice. Give everybody equal opportunity to do all courses at Uni. If after that, one gender decides to dorminate a sector. Then it's fine. What we don't want is one gender being discouraged from doing a particular course.

True true

Timbuktou:


No shame in it just being me. You are a feminist after all. Every comment of yours should be analysed from all angles. We can't be taking chances with you and your ilk, after all, you did say STEM courses aren't more important than Gender Studies. It does say a lot about your value system on a lot of levels.

OK,

Next

Bukatyne don't let anyone distract you. We can use this thread to encourage the little Nigerian girls that are coming up.
I've been meaning to start a thread like this, but too lazy to click a button and make threads on NL.

Must more ladies be enrolled into STEM courses? Must there be a gender based quota as regards the enrollment into STEM courses

No I don't believe in a quota system. Why? Quality over quantity. I remember getting into a slug of words with some guy here that wanted to restrict women to always think 'home/family life' first before anything else. A girl is fed with such thinking and it frames her outlook in life and she cops out of pursuing the so called 'difficult' things in life, avoids 'threatening' the man, even on the internet she is hesitant on stating her views and defending it. You see females failing to challenge societal misnomers and agree to ideals that put them at the low rung of the ladder. So the first thing every female brought up under such societies is to crush such thinking. It is a hindrance. Most girls need to understand that the world is their oyster, and need to take control of it!

This article below tells us Nigerian female scientists are not doing badly. Despite US women not being undermined by misogynistic values in their system that Nigerian women have to deal with in this part of the world, Nigerian women roughly match their enrollment rates. So if we begin to train our daughters and gear them towards thinking big and not restrict their thinking to home economics, I must marry by force , you can imagine the great things Nigerian women can do.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/02/17/386549295/tough-as-nails-women-scientists-rise-up-in-nigeria

Four hours. That's how much time physicist Rabia Salihu Sa'id has each day to get her research done at Bayero University in Kano, Nigeria.

"Each day, my university is giving me only four hours of electricity. I can't do research in four hours!" Sa'id says, laughing, despite her frustration.

She studies how deforestation may change air temperatures in Nigeria. Computing power is essential for her research.

"Think! You are concentrating and the power goes off! You try to use the battery, and the battery starts beeping. Then you have to close it and leave," she says. "The ideas are gone by the time you come back. It's difficult — you have to start all over again."

Working as a professor isn't an easy job anywhere. But scientists in many low-income countries, such as Nigeria, cope with problems unheard of elsewhere. Universities commonly lack the funds to support research, while students have no access to computers or the Internet.

Despite such slings and arrows, good science does get done in poor countries. And done by women, such as Sa'id. Women make up only about 14 percent of Nigerian academics but account for about a quarter of the science and technology professors — the latter statistic is roughly inline with the percentage in the U.S.


Three of the top female scientists from Nigeria, including Sa'id, won an award Saturday at the annual meeting of the American Association for Advancement of Science in San Jose, Calif.

Sitting around a table during the conference, the women swapped experiences and shared common frustrations. Many times they sounded just like female scientists in the U.S. They strive to get money for students, to do innovative research under tight funds and to receive support from male colleagues.

"I don't think they were very happy in my department when I got the award," Sa'id says about her male colleagues back home. When she showed one of them her award letter, he asked if the award was specifically for women. She said it was. "And he just shook his head and walked away — as if that's the only reason I got it!"

"There is always some hostility," says Dolly Ighoroje, a physiologist at the University of Benin in Nigeria. "I don't know if it is because they feel threatened or envious or something because as far as they are concerned, they are the boss."

But some of these women's struggles make problems in the West look small. Take for instance Mojisola Oluwayemisi Adeniyi's experiences at the University of Ibadan.

Like Sa'id, Adeniyi is a physicist. Her goal is to understand how future climate conditions in Nigeria will affect the country's ability to grow food. This type of research requires massive computing power — think a room filled with computers for her students to run climate models.

Adeniyi has only one laptop. But that doesn't stop her.

"Presently I improvise," she says. Adeniyi uses her own laptop, outfitted with eight processing cores and climate modeling software, which she copied at a conference.

"If you tell someone I am running regional climate model on a laptop," she says, "they'd find it unbelievable — but I do it."

Adeniyi's dream is a computer room for her students. But she doesn't have the money to buy the machines. Lack of funds, in general, seems to be a problem for many scientists in Nigeria. Many even have to use personal money to fund their research.

When Mojisola Usikalu was working to get her master's degree in physics, she used her salary as a schoolteacher to pay for samples to be analyzed. She studies how radiation can affect plants and animals.

"The professor I went to said my data were very good," Usikalu says. "He encouraged me and said, 'You can do more than this.' From that point, I said to myself, 'OK, there are good opportunities in the sciences. If I just do good work, maybe I can get somewhere.' "

Usikalu believes that with a little doggedness and a little help from time to time, anything is possible. The professor recommended her for a doctoral fellowship. Now she's a lecturer at Covenant University in Ota, Nigeria.

"I always try to motivate the students — especially the girls," she says. "I tell them, 'There is no barrier. There is nothing that can keep one from good success in science if one is passionate about it, determined and focused. One can get to any level.' "

Like in the U.S., girls in Nigeria tend to drop of science as they get older, Adeniyi says.

"It's in secondary school that boys and girls begin segregating," she says. "Girls start thinking math and physics is hard. It's not feminine. But if people like us can go there and talk to them, showing them what we have achieved, telling them they can do well in those subjects, they will surely be encouraged."

raumdeuter:
[img]https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-27-at-9.35.32-AM-e1422370349670.png&w=1484[/img]

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-27-at-9.35.32-AM-e1422370349670.png&w=1484

[img]https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-27-at-9.35.32-AM-e1422370349670.png&w=1484[/img]

Isn't it strange that despite the push for more women in STEM, less women graduated from STEM over the span of 10yrs?

Did the article say Why the decline?

Captainswag225:
yep., science and maths are for guys only.

Language and communication jobs are for women only.

raumdeuter:


The gvt isnt reducing the quota for Male STEM, they just want to increase female STEM

E.g 300 male 20 female they want to make it 300 males 200 female at least 500 STEM is better than 320 STEM

And increasing the numbers makes sense because 10 Engineers can only work on so much regardless of their passion.
A passionless STEM person is more important to the modern society than a passionate Philosopher or Linguist




if we encourage 200 women and 100 drop it after, the 100 that would stay is a benefit to the society than not having them at all




I know a girl who started with Engineering, dropped to one easy psychology graduated while her former Engineering colleagues were getting 65k out of school she couldnt even get any job. She now decided to go for a masters again in another useless course Criminal Justice still no job she was working as a barber despite having a Masters. This was someone that had the intelligence to be an Engineer

Look at schools its usually those who study all these yeye courses that have time to party around. Go to any club or party and count the number of STEM students vs non STEM

Future of the country just wasting away studying Philosophy and Languages

Kai

The quota still exists except you are saying there is a limitless amount of students a university can admit per session.

You have a point ; someone can still be passionless but verygGood at a given profession...

Anyways, our psychologist will be waiting when the person breaks down

@Stillfire:

Very good one which proves my point really.... These women are there because they want to So they are willing to go the extra mile to succeed.

I am getting something from you and ramudeter here...

If more girls are coerced, then more girls would stay (till the end?) in STEM.

Those women are really a motivation to younger women as I can see they are married (if I saw well o)

stillfire "I don't think they were very happy in my department when I got the award," Sa'id says about her male
colleagues back home. When she showed one of
them her award letter, he asked if the award was
specifically for women. She said it was. "And he just
shook his head and walked away — as if that's the
only reason I got it!"

Why else did this woman get the award?

Pidggin:

Language and communication jobs are for women only.

i disagree.

Captainswag225:
i disagree.

It's the truth, no point disagreeing. Women have better communication and language skills, it has been proven scientifically..

Pidggin:


It's the truth, no point disagreeing. Women have better communication and language skills, it has been proven scientifically..

nope, women are great manipulators, they know how to deceive and seduce to get what they want..... Jux like eve did to adam.

bukatyne:

If a lady is not in an environment that discriminates against women in STEM courses, then she should be guided to choose a profession based on her strengths and personality. That why, the society can benefit maximally from them.

nice

bellong:
You got it wrong. The essence of encouraging women to be in STEM courses is to disabuse their minds about its gender stereotype.

In every university, check percentage of ladies in Engineering and science compared to administration and social sciences.

There were only 5 girls in my department in the university, 2 in civil engineering for my set, mechanical had only one ati bebe lo..

The number of females in Science is on the same par with male in our Nigerian Universities.
Check some Universities admission list, female kindof outnumbered male in Medicine & Surgery.

Maybe Engineering; that's a different aspect.

bukatyne:
@Stillfire:

Very good one which proves my point really.... These women are there because they want to So they are willing to go the extra mile to succeed.

I am getting something from you and ramudeter here...

If more girls are coerced, then more girls would stay (till the end?) in STEM.

Those women are really a motivation to younger women as I can see they are married (if I saw well o)

I won't say coerced but encourage the ones that are naturally predisposed to the sciences. For science it's either you have it or you just don't. You can't force it.

Here is another Nigerian woman doing great things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDTTfoFnHrY


http://www.cnn.com/videos/international/2014/11/10/spc-african-voices-francisca-okeke-a.cnn

Professor Okeke was the Dean in the faculty of Physical Sciences at UNN from 2008 – 2010. She is a huge inspiration to women in the sciences and we’re really inspired by the work she is doing. In an interview with UNESCO, she was asked “What remains as the biggest challenge faced by women and young girls in science in Nigeria and what can be done to encourage young girls to consider further study in Science?”
She replied: “It’s encouragement. Where and when it is possible, we need to let the guardians and parents know the importance of women participating in science.

I will talk specifically about the village because, though there are some enlightened people there, the situation is worse. Sometimes you have girls who are very brilliant but are forced into early marriage. We can let parents be aware of advantages of their daughters becoming scientists and that they can gain more from the girls when they are scientists than when they get married as early as 16, 17 or 18. Like it happened a few years a go, we can call social gatherings with a talk by someone on ‘women in science’. We can give them examples, maybe by playing movies of successful women in science. This can work wonders.

We need to get guidance counsellors for these young women because some of them should have opted for these courses but since they don’t have the background and counselling, they say “this is a male subject so I can’t do it”.

Another angle to this is to lead as a model, by example. I have so many postgraduate female students and many of them have gotten PhDs through my guidance, counselling and encouragement. But if I don’t let them come near me, they will be scared. And once they are scared of you, they are scared of the subject. We need to tell them that this subject is not as difficult as they think. If it’s possible, get women to teach women. ‘Seeing is believing’. They will eventually see that it is practical and that this is a subject that can be dabbled into and not fearing it because ‘people say…’

Stillfire:
I won't say coerced but encourage the ones that are naturally predisposed to the sciences. For science it's either you have it or you just don't. You can't force it.

Here is another Nigerian woman doing great things.

Which is the whole point - no one is saying women can't do great things, or should be denied the opportunity to do so. The simple truth is women' preferences often lie elsewhere.

As has been amply demonstrated in those nations that incentivise, formulate policy or otherwise proactively intervene in order to increase or balance numbers in STEM fields - it's a pointless exercise. If they are predisposed they will naturally gravitate towards, just like you stated.

bukatyne:
If the female Drs leave within 10yrs, I doubt there would be a shortfall because Drs male & female will be produced yearly.

I don't know the source of your "doubt", but the figures and situation clearly show the UK is suffering due to the high attrition rate of female Dr's. Countries don't train Dr's at great cost for a few years post-qualification work.


TV

Stillfire you've said it all.

TV01:

Which is the whole point - no one is saying women can't do great things, or should be denied the opportunity to do so. The simple truth is women' preferences often lie elsewhere.

As has been amply demonstrated in those nations that incentivise, formulate policy or otherwise proactively intervene in order to increase or balance numbers in STEM fields - it's a pointless exercise. If they are predisposed they will naturally gravitate towards, just like you stated

I actually agree but at the same time the percentage of women in the STEM is incredibly too low but I would not use that statistic to reflect the percentage of women who are predisposed to the sciences. I believe the number should be higher than what is, women are just being lazy. Even if the men are endeared towards it, we should at least be at 45%...

I want associate this with mental laziness on the side of the women.

Pidggin:


It's the truth, no point disagreeing. Women have better communication and language skills, it has been proven scientifically..

Sharrap my friend and stop writing rubbish! Were u the one who proved it? What do u know about communication? U women always like breeding ground for unnecessary competition, and when the heat start coming, u all will be screaming misogynistic bla bla.....

FrancisTony:

The number of females in Science is on the same par with male in our Nigerian Universities.
Check some Universities admission list, female kindof outnumbered male in Medicine & Surgery.

Maybe Engineering; that's a different aspect.

Maybe in the university you attended.

The science departments that you find lots of female are microbiology, botany, agriculture.

@Bukatyne and others quoting me.

I think you guys misunderstood my post. I didn't talk about coercion, I said they are encouraged and probably disabuse their minds. I know many females who wanted to study Engineering but the fear of the unknown of its difficulty put them off.

I'm not really a strong believer in predisposition or passion being a persons guidance towards career choice.I save my passions for my hobbies.Especially when you are not gifted enough to be an entrepreneur.If you are going to join the salaried work force,you'd best pick one that's financially rewarding at least.
Very very few people are lucky enough to be passionate about their jobs and make a good living out of it.

I believe that theres no course or subject that cannot be conquered with constant practice, discipline and focus.If you practice maths often,it becomes easier. Yes,you may not feel the maths oozing through your veins but you will be comfortable and do well enough.

I was a bloody whiz at literature and found the arts easier but I did the sciences..Yes there are some people gifted with deeper understanding of those stem courses but with persistence you can be as good.

My mother drummed into her children to choose courses which are relevant no matter what part of the world you are in.

The girl child should be taught from day one that theres NO course of study specifically made for men,theres no job she cannot do. If physically tasking,is it not women that are body builders?Nurses are great but why be a nurse when you can put in extra effort and become a doctor?She should always push and push till she gets the best out of herself.If physics ,chemistry are a bit tricky,put in more energy and you will do well.
Yes the arts are relevant but won't build planes or find the cure to cancer.

^^ Well said

When people say I enjoy my job, I ask If there is no salary, Can you continue doing it?

The only job you can say you enjoy is one you would continue doing even if there's no pay e.g Playing football . I believe a career is to gather enough money as quick enough to pursue your real passion be it travelling, gardening or brewing beer.

With constant practice and dedication you can become good at what isnt your initial favourite subject

Stillfire:
I actually agree but at the same time the percentage of women in the STEM is incredibly too low

That right there is an ideologically based - and biased - value judgement. Why is it too low? Especially if opportunity is equal? Are the number of female road sweepers, dustbin "men", or conductors too low ?

Stillfire:
but I would not use that statistic to reflect the percentage of women who are predisposed to the sciences.

This is conjecture; "predisposed"? in what way, want to do STEM, are good enough to do STEM, are incentivised to do STEM or have the tenacity to do STEM? Even a natural predisposition may be superceded by another preference.

Stillfire:
I believe the number should be higher than what is, women are just being lazy. Even if the men are endeared towards it, we should at least be at 45%...

Why are they termed lazy? If the sum of their talents, desires and situations typically rule out STEM, why is that a problem? Your figure of 45% can't hold, at least not as an ideologically pursued outcome.

What will happen, is that women will be "seduced" in, then the attrition rates will rocket as they figure they are not best suited and would rather do other things.

The whole thrust is supposedly for women to be able to avail themselves of freely available choice, no? So why then do those choices have to be coerced or condemned


TV

bellong:


Maybe in the university you attended.

The science departments that you find lots of female are microbiology, botany, agriculture.

@Bukatyne and others quoting me.

I think you guys misunderstood my post. I didn't talk about coercion, I said they are encouraged and probably disabuse their minds. I know many females who wanted to study Engineering but the fear of the unknown of its difficulty put them off.

In the Uk, 60% of medical students are female. About 60% of pharmacy students are females and about 45% of dentist are women.

babygirlfl:

In the Uk, 60% of medical students are female. About 60% of pharmacy students are females and about 45% of dentist are women.

You may not be far from the truth. The reason why there are more females in the biological and medical sciences is because they believe it is about reading and "pouring. To most of them, it doesn't require intensive mathematical exercise and modeling.

bukatyne:


I do not know if men are more 'suited' to STEM; this thread is saying every student should be guided to pick what best suits them.... Incentives are not necessary to put women in STEM... their passion should be enough incentive to.

If men were created to build, create and civilize, then they have made a woeful job of it.

AND THAT DISCUSSION IS OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THIS THREAD.

Tell me one useful thing that women have built in our civilization! All most women do is to consume without thinking how or where things come from.

Super!

I wonder how Medicine, Engineering can be equate to Gender Studies because of political correctness

All this new age, pyscho babble, do-what-u feel-drawn-towards teaching you hear nowadays... this is the result

The disinterest in the sciences is why the country is not moving forwards

The country needs 24/7 power, jobs and infrastructure (roads, bridges, water)

They will be provided by power stations, money and scientists

Simple

Jahblessme:
I'm not really a strong believer in predisposition or passion being a persons guidance towards career choice.I save my passions for my hobbies.Especially when you are not gifted enough to be an entrepreneur.If you are going to join the salaried work force,you'd best pick one that's financially rewarding at least.
Very very few people are lucky enough to be passionate about their jobs and make a good living out of it.

I believe that theres no course or subject that cannot be conquered with constant practice, discipline and focus.If you practice maths often,it becomes easier. Yes,you may not feel the maths oozing through your veins but you will be comfortable and do well enough.

I was a bloody whiz at literature and found the arts easier but I did the sciences..Yes there are some people gifted with deeper understanding of those stem courses but with persistence you can be as good.

My mother drummed into her children to choose courses which are relevant no matter what part of the world you are in.

The girl child should be taught from day one that theres NO course of study specifically made for men,theres no job she cannot do. If physically tasking,is it not women that are body builders?Nurses are great but why be a nurse when you can put in extra effort and become a doctor?She should always push and push till she gets the best out of herself.If physics ,chemistry are a bit tricky,put in more energy and you will do well.
Yes the arts are relevant but won't build planes or find the cure to cancer.

bellong:


Maybe in the university you attended.

The science departments that you find lots of female are microbiology, botany, agriculture.

@Bukatyne and others quoting me.

I think you guys misunderstood my post. I didn't talk about coercion, I said they are encouraged and probably disabuse their minds. I know many females who wanted to study Engineering but the fear of the unknown of its difficulty put them off.

I have been able to access;
University of Lagos.
University of Nigeria.
University of Ibadan.
and Obafemi Awolowo University admission list before I arrived to my conclusion.

...And last Unilag & Uniuyo best graduating medical students were females.