pickabeau1:
Super!

I wonder how Medicine, Engineering can be equate to Gender Studies because of political correctness

All this new age, pyscho babble, do-what-u feel-drawn-towards teaching you hear nowadays... this is the result

The disinterest in the sciences is why the country is not moving forwards

The country needs 24/7 power, jobs and infrastructure (roads, bridges, water)

They will be provided by power stations, money and scientists

Simple

damiso:


While I agree that we need more scientists as there is actually a dearth of scientists everywhere,(in the UK they are practically begging science graduates with bursaries and scholarships to become science teachers) I don't think the 'do what you are drawn to' is a bad piece of advise in all totality. I also don't fully agree with the future earning potential being the main driver in advising a child to choose a profession. If we are too look at it on the basis of future earning a science teacher who studied a STEM course might actually never out earn a corporate lawyer or investment banker. Viability of a course, interest, aptitude, future earning potential,etc. and so many factors need to be considered in choosing a profession. I agree that countries and the world need a lot STEM professionals to succeed but I don't agree with coercing or implying that anything other than studying a STEM course makes you less valuable to society or a likely failure in Life( I know cos I had this issue with my dad). That said of course the person who builds bridges is very important to society and contributes more to society than a philosophy graduate but the reality is not everyone can study the STEM courses.

I think more children in general need to be encouraged into more intellectual pursuits. There is too much dumbing down in the world today. And yes more girls need to be taught to aspire to want and add value to society regardless of profession. Marriage is not a profession or occupation.

pickabeau1:



The dumbing down as you call it is an inevitable outcome of the same passion psycho babble

Look at reality tv
It has spawned a whole generation of people who know the ticket to fame is to generate acts of shock value

A vacuous breed of followers line up behind them

I agree aptitude should be considered in identifying a career however it has been proven time and time again. Attitude is actually more critical for success in any field

How many people will be Thomas Edison

Leave passion to the Zuckerbergs

TV01:

Not really, but the prevailing ideological positions will try and force it to happen. Fortunately or unfortunatley, biology will prevail; simply put, womens strengths don't play to them achieving equal success with men in STEM fields. In this sense men are simply more gifted/better suited.

Sex based quotas cannot change that. Sweden the most poitically correct and feminist led nation in the world has relatively no more engineers than say a typical patriarchial nation like India. It's not mainly "gender" bias or stereotyping or even "old boys clubism" it's preference.

Even with more more women enrolling and graduating, with unfair incentives and policies designed to ensure women take up STEM courses, men still rule STEM fields. Things may change slightly due to the pressure, but women themselves don't - for the most part - want it.

http://www.brunel.ac.uk/courses/pg/funding/scholarships-bursaries - note the female only engineering bursary
http://www.uis.unesco.org/_LAYOUTS/UNESCO/women-in-science/index.html#overview!lang=en

Men were created to build, create and civilise. End of !


TV

doublex:
black man using the same methodology you have used to say all that about woman,a white man can say the same about you.so would you also agree that white men were created to build,creat and civilise,end of? #SAY NO TO HYPOCRISY

TV01:

My point was about sex - humans are sexually dimorphous - not race, which is at best convenient labelling. I believe I only ever referenced "men" unqualified. But what's your point exactly?


TV

Stillfire:
Bukatyne don't let anyone distract you. We can use this thread to encourage the little Nigerian girls that are coming up.
I've been meaning to start a thread like this, but too lazy to click a button and make threads on NL.



No I don't believe in a quota system. Why? Quality over quantity. I remember getting into a slug of words with some guy here that wanted to restrict women to always think 'home/family life' first before anything else. A girl is fed with such thinking and it frames her outlook in life and she cops out of pursuing the so called 'difficult' things in life, avoids 'threatening' the man, even on the internet she is hesitant on stating her views and defending it. You see females failing to challenge societal misnomers and agree to ideals that put them at the low rung of the ladder. So the first thing every female brought up under such societies is to crush such thinking. It is a hindrance. Most girls need to understand that the world is their oyster, and need to take control of it!

This article below tells us Nigerian female scientists are not doing badly. Despite US women not being undermined by misogynistic values in their system that Nigerian women have to deal with in this part of the world, Nigerian women roughly match their enrollment rates. So if we begin to train our daughters and gear them towards thinking big and not restrict their thinking to home economics, I must marry by force , you can imagine the great things Nigerian women can do.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/02/17/386549295/tough-as-nails-women-scientists-rise-up-in-nigeria

Four hours. That's how much time physicist Rabia Salihu Sa'id has each day to get her research done at Bayero University in Kano, Nigeria.

"Each day, my university is giving me only four hours of electricity. I can't do research in four hours!" Sa'id says, laughing, despite her frustration.

She studies how deforestation may change air temperatures in Nigeria. Computing power is essential for her research.

"Think! You are concentrating and the power goes off! You try to use the battery, and the battery starts beeping. Then you have to close it and leave," she says. "The ideas are gone by the time you come back. It's difficult — you have to start all over again."

Working as a professor isn't an easy job anywhere. But scientists in many low-income countries, such as Nigeria, cope with problems unheard of elsewhere. Universities commonly lack the funds to support research, while students have no access to computers or the Internet.

Despite such slings and arrows, good science does get done in poor countries. And done by women, such as Sa'id. Women make up only about 14 percent of Nigerian academics but account for about a quarter of the science and technology professors — the latter statistic is roughly inline with the percentage in the U.S.


Three of the top female scientists from Nigeria, including Sa'id, won an award Saturday at the annual meeting of the American Association for Advancement of Science in San Jose, Calif.

Sitting around a table during the conference, the women swapped experiences and shared common frustrations. Many times they sounded just like female scientists in the U.S. They strive to get money for students, to do innovative research under tight funds and to receive support from male colleagues.

"I don't think they were very happy in my department when I got the award," Sa'id says about her male colleagues back home. When she showed one of them her award letter, he asked if the award was specifically for women. She said it was. "And he just shook his head and walked away — as if that's the only reason I got it!"

"There is always some hostility," says Dolly Ighoroje, a physiologist at the University of Benin in Nigeria. "I don't know if it is because they feel threatened or envious or something because as far as they are concerned, they are the boss."

But some of these women's struggles make problems in the West look small. Take for instance Mojisola Oluwayemisi Adeniyi's experiences at the University of Ibadan.

Like Sa'id, Adeniyi is a physicist. Her goal is to understand how future climate conditions in Nigeria will affect the country's ability to grow food. This type of research requires massive computing power — think a room filled with computers for her students to run climate models.

Adeniyi has only one laptop. But that doesn't stop her.

"Presently I improvise," she says. Adeniyi uses her own laptop, outfitted with eight processing cores and climate modeling software, which she copied at a conference.

"If you tell someone I am running regional climate model on a laptop," she says, "they'd find it unbelievable — but I do it."

Adeniyi's dream is a computer room for her students. But she doesn't have the money to buy the machines. Lack of funds, in general, seems to be a problem for many scientists in Nigeria. Many even have to use personal money to fund their research.

When Mojisola Usikalu was working to get her master's degree in physics, she used her salary as a schoolteacher to pay for samples to be analyzed. She studies how radiation can affect plants and animals.

"The professor I went to said my data were very good," Usikalu says. "He encouraged me and said, 'You can do more than this.' From that point, I said to myself, 'OK, there are good opportunities in the sciences. If I just do good work, maybe I can get somewhere.' "

Usikalu believes that with a little doggedness and a little help from time to time, anything is possible. The professor recommended her for a doctoral fellowship. Now she's a lecturer at Covenant University in Ota, Nigeria.

"I always try to motivate the students — especially the girls," she says. "I tell them, 'There is no barrier. There is nothing that can keep one from good success in science if one is passionate about it, determined and focused. One can get to any level.' "

Like in the U.S., girls in Nigeria tend to drop of science as they get older, Adeniyi says.

"It's in secondary school that boys and girls begin segregating," she says. "Girls start thinking math and physics is hard. It's not feminine. But if people like us can go there and talk to them, showing them what we have achieved, telling them they can do well in those subjects, they will surely be encouraged."

doublex:
black man using the same methodology you have used to say all that about woman,a white man can say the same about you.so would you also agree that white men were created to build,creat and civilise,end of? #SAY NO TO HYPOCRISY

damiso:


Oga pick Zuckerberg chop pepper on top his passion o

I agree reality TV has done a whole lot of damage although on the flipside one can say the media or rather the corporations behind the whole thing are actually smiling to the bank.So maybe they are making the money you mentioned we need to fund the research

Which is why I would not agree with financial rewards being the main angle to sell a profession because before you know you that 'Bill Gates was a drop out' ish will surface ( if hear that thing one more time ehn I will scream ) or any other poster person some youths nowadays tend to use to justify not wanting to face the grind. Why spend years studying engineering when Wizkid dropped out of school and has 'hammered' ( another word I hate). The girls is to buy Brazilian hair and publish selfie book like Kim K .

I know passion can be over rated and all but at least there should be some sort of motivation to be good at what you do.

babygirlfl:


Thanks. #say no to hypocrisy. A black man that believes in equality of all humans irrespective of race but not irrespective of sex, is a hypocrite.

doublex:
true sister, i can even go further using his method and say WHITE WOMEN CONTRIBUTED MORE TO BUILD SOCIETY THAN BLACK MEN,therefore are more important but i have a well-functioning brain and know its all about oppurtinity etc,thats why even our whole continent is behind because of less chance(s) in the past,and present in some places as well as other facts

bellong:


You may not be far from the truth. The reason why there are more females in the biological and medical sciences is because they believe it is about reading and "pouring. To most of them, it doesn't require intensive mathematical exercise and modeling.

doublex:
whatever you want to call the differences between human groups,race/not,its there thats how cultures,ethnicities,just basically differences between human 'groups' .my point is this,you are using an unfair method to discredit women and the same method(s) white men use to discredit black men.this is my point:do you agree when white men use the same method you ae using to discredit black men and say they didnt contribute to advancement?.....

TV01:
That right there is an ideologically based - and biased - value judgement. Why is it too low? Especially if opportunity is equal? Are the number of female road sweepers, dustbin "men", or conductors too low ?

This is conjecture; "predisposed"? in what way, want to do STEM, are good enough to do STEM, are incentivised to do STEM or have the tenacity to do STEM? Even a natural predisposition may be superceded by another preference.

Why are they termed lazy? If the sum of their talents, desires and situations typically rule out STEM, why is that a problem? Your figure of 45% can't hold, at least not as an ideologically pursued outcome.

What will happen, is that women will be "seduced" in, then the attrition rates will rocket as they figure they are not best suited and would rather do other things.
The whole thrust is supposedly for women to be able to avail themselves of freely available choice, no? So why then do those choices have to be coerced or condemned

TV

babygirlfl:


True. Read some posts on this thread and you will see the subtle attempt by some posters to make medicine appear softer than Engineering. It's not that they don't know that they are both difficult courses, it's because women are now doing medicine and are even dorminating the field so it must be easy because to certain people, when a woman can do it, then it must be easy. The same thing they are saying about women in Engineering and technical courses today is what they said about women and medicine some years ago. If women started doing Engineering and these courses, it would suddenly become easy.

Stillfire:
Are you seriously trying to rule out the fact that the way the genders are nurtured does not influence the decisions they eventually make?

^{skirt surfer* - one who lacks the nous to rebut opinions or present a cogent case on a topic, but instead chooses to indirectly make baseless insinuations and trite asides - typically by referencing their pain indirectly as a response to another post. Closely related to trolls, but typically sadder, and with a tendency to whinge and present as emotionally skewed}

johnson232:

Sharrap my friend and stop writing rubbish! Were u the one who proved it? What do u know about communication? U women always like breeding ground for unnecessary competition, and when the heat start coming, u all will be screaming misogynistic bla bla.....

TV01:


Ah Stilly, so you at deign not to to answer any of my assertions and at the same time charge me with something I did not say? . Why should women be at 45% in TEM, why not 60% like in medicine. Why does it make them lazy !

[/b]

Mindfulness:
Are women at 45% in TEM?

Stillfire:
I actually agree but at the same time the percentage of women in the STEM is incredibly too low but I would not use that statistic to reflect the percentage of women who are predisposed to the sciences. I believe the number should be higher than what is, women are just being lazy. Even if the men are endeared towards it, we should at least be at 45%...

TV01:




^{skirt surfer* - one who lacks the nous to rebut opinions or present a cogent case on a topic, but instead chooses to indirectly make baseless insinuations and trite asides - typically by referencing their pain indirectly as a response to another post. Closely related to trolls, but typically sadder, and with a tendency to whinge and present as emotionally skewed}

TV01:
That was Stillfires assertion of where women should be. I merely questioned why so low and why she described them as lazy for not being there !

I bring no charge against women for their choices, l just have my opinions as to why. And I certainly don't think "nurture" or structural discrimination are the main reasons women are supposedly "under-represented", even if it does play a part.

TV

FrancisTony:
[s]There are few female in Engineering not because it's hard but it takes only a strong woman to practise as one.[/s]
What's the essence of studying Engineering and will never practise it?.
Infact in ALL Nigerian Universities, cutoff points to get admitted in Medicine & Surgery and Pharmacy topples Engineering.
Chemical Engineering & Petroleum and gas Engineering have large numbers of female compared to others and it's not in any way easier [s]but because it doesn't require much strenous activities, most women tend to venture into it.[/s]

crackhaus:

Do you know that most of the time, you come off sounding like you don't actually know what you're talking about?

I said most, not all of the time... before you start getting your panties in a bunch and developing a migraine.

Timbuktou:
Is it just me or can someone else see that this thread seeks to trivialise STEM courses by equating their importance with non-STEM courses because women flood the useless courses in universities. Imagine a "graduate" positing that Gender Studies and Medicine are of equal importance. This nairaland eh.

coogar:







women don't have the mental capacity to cope with STEM in the long run. the reason why you find them more in medicine/pharmacy is because it involves little or no math!

medicine = physics + chemistry + biology
engineering = physics + chemistry + math.

biology is the easiest science subject so women tend to opt for that choice than what involves advanced math!

you should see the babes in my faculty when i was school. they were very few and 95% of them were tom boys with the body of a 12-year old boy.

Mindfulness:

Do you know that the study of Physics requires A GREAT DEAL of Math and mathematical ability?
If you want to be a physicist you got to LOVE Math.

Sorry to say this but this your post teems with false beliefs.

coogar:


so you are saying to study physics, you would do much more math than if you study math itself? christ - can you hear yourself?



i am sorry to say you are not an intelligent human being!

medicine = physics + chemistry + biology
engineering = physics + chemistry + math.

Mindfulness:

This is not what I was saying.

I was explaining to you that the following equation does not make any sense:

I will try to make it easier for you.
If you study Medicine, you need to do Physics. The study of Physics requires Math.
Understood? What next?

You said that Biology is the easiest Science. Well, that is HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE. There are many fields in Engineering that would be considered easier than Genetics by MANY people. And who told you that Biology does not, depending on specialization, require Math?