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Re: Women In STEM by TV01(m): 9:32am On Oct 15, 2015 |
Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics - STEM. Women tend to congregrate - and are starting to dominate - in the softer fields, such as life sciences and medicine. Although these can be captured under the "Science", when this discussion is had, it's invariably about womens presence in the harder fields, Technology, Engineering & Math based disciplines. As Bellong noted, the kind of complex modelling and computation required here play better to mens relative strengths. Idology cant trump biology - now that's science ! Can women participate and excel in any STEM area - soft or hard? A resounding yes, but they are unlikely to do so in the same numbers as men, or produce as many exceptional outliers. http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/aug/13/fields-medal-mathematics-prize-woman-maryam-mirzakhani. It's also pertinent to note that an ideological push to equalise number does not always work for the overall good. With women now dominating numbers in the medical field in the UK, the profession has effectively been "feminised". Structural changes to accomodate womens higher desire for p/t work and maternity leave have had to be made. Even factoring for their life choices, female Dr's simply do not work as many hours as males. It's further compounded by the fact that even in medicine, women tend towars the "soft" specialities or prefer to be GP's, leading to shortfalls in the more acute areas. But the real problem is the attrition rate - to many female Dr's leave the profession prematurely - and this is leading to compromised healthcare delivery. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2338607/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-Part-time-women-doctors-ARE-real-problem-Why-sexist-say-so.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/9950248/Part-time-women-doctors-are-creating-a-timebomb.html Equality in it's true sense is a nice to have and should be a consideration, but as a primary driver for policy formulation it is horribly flawed and ultimately unsustainable. We shall see. TV 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by damiso(f): 12:18pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
pickabeau1: While I agree that we need more scientists as there is actually a dearth of scientists everywhere,(in the UK they are practically begging science graduates with bursaries and scholarships to become science teachers) I don't think the 'do what you are drawn to' is a bad piece of advise in all totality. I also don't fully agree with the future earning potential being the main driver in advising a child to choose a profession. If we are too look at it on the basis of future earning a science teacher who studied a STEM course might actually never out earn a corporate lawyer or investment banker. Viability of a course, interest, aptitude, future earning potential,etc. and so many factors need to be considered in choosing a profession. I agree that countries and the world need a lot STEM professionals to succeed but I don't agree with coercing or implying that anything other than studying a STEM course makes you less valuable to society or a likely failure in Life( I know cos I had this issue with my dad). That said of course the person who builds bridges is very important to society and contributes more to society than a philosophy graduate but the reality is not everyone can study the STEM courses. I think more children in general need to be encouraged into more intellectual pursuits. There is too much dumbing down in the world today. And yes more girls need to be taught to aspire to want and add value to society regardless of profession. Marriage is not a profession or occupation. |
Re: Women In STEM by pickabeau1: 12:45pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
damiso: The dumbing down as you call it is an inevitable outcome of the same passion psycho babble Look at reality tv It has spawned a whole generation of people who know the ticket to fame is to generate acts of shock value A vacuous breed of followers line up behind them I agree aptitude should be considered in identifying a career however it has been proven time and time again. Attitude is actually more critical for success in any field How many people will be Thomas Edison Leave passion to the Zuckerbergs |
Re: Women In STEM by damiso(f): 1:36pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
pickabeau1: Oga pick Zuckerberg chop pepper on top his passion o I agree reality TV has done a whole lot of damage although on the flipside one can say the media or rather the corporations behind the whole thing are actually smiling to the bank.So maybe they are making the money you mentioned we need to fund the research Which is why I would not agree with financial rewards being the main angle to sell a profession because before you know you that 'Bill Gates was a drop out' ish will surface ( if hear that thing one more time ehn I will scream ) or any other poster person some youths nowadays tend to use to justify not wanting to face the grind. Why spend years studying engineering when Wizkid dropped out of school and has 'hammered' ( another word I hate). The girls is to buy Brazilian hair and publish selfie book like Kim K . I know passion can be over rated and all but at least there should be some sort of motivation to be good at what you do. |
Re: Women In STEM by doublex: 2:58pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
TV01:black man using the same methodology you have used to say all that about woman,a white man can say the same about you.so would you also agree that white men were created to build,creat and civilise,end of? #SAY NO TO HYPOCRISY 13 Likes 4 Shares |
Re: Women In STEM by TV01(m): 3:07pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
doublex:My point was about sex - humans are sexually dimorphous - not race, which is at best convenient labelling. I believe I only ever referenced "men" unqualified. But what's your point exactly? TV |
Re: Women In STEM by doublex: 3:17pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
TV01:whatever you want to call the differences between human groups,race/not,its there thats how cultures,ethnicities,just basically differences between human 'groups' .my point is this,you are using an unfair method to discredit women and the same method(s) white men use to discredit black men.this is my point:do you agree when white men use the same method you ae using to discredit black men and say they didnt contribute to advancement?..... 12 Likes 4 Shares |
Re: Women In STEM by doublex: 3:24pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
Stillfire: 6 Likes |
Re: Women In STEM by babygirlfl: 3:28pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
doublex: Thanks. #say no to hypocrisy. A black man that believes in equality of all humans irrespective of race but not irrespective of sex, is a hypocrite. 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by pickabeau1: 3:33pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
Well I see your point damiso: |
Re: Women In STEM by doublex: 3:35pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
babygirlfl:true sister, i can even go further using his method and say WHITE WOMEN CONTRIBUTED MORE TO BUILD SOCIETY THAN BLACK MEN,therefore are more important but i have a well-functioning brain and know its all about oppurtinity etc,thats why even our whole continent is behind because of less chance(s) in the past,and present in some places as well as other facts 10 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Women In STEM by babygirlfl: 3:47pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
doublex: True. Read some posts on this thread and you will see the subtle attempt by some posters to make medicine appear softer than Engineering. It's not that they don't know that they are both difficult courses, it's because women are now doing medicine and are even dorminating the field so it must be easy because to certain people, when a woman can do it, then it must be easy. The same thing they are saying about women in Engineering and technical courses today is what they said about women and medicine some years ago. If women started doing Engineering and these courses, it would suddenly become easy. 7 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Women In STEM by Jahblessme: 3:57pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
^^^ |
Re: Women In STEM by babygirlfl: 4:02pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
bellong: I understand what you mean.However, I did like to know which sciences are actually about reading and pouring and without intensive mathematical exercises and modelling. Pharmacy for example requires that you are sound in mathematics. You have to do drug calculations and you have to get it right. They is no room for mistake because a calculation error can lead to death.Even in Engineering, I was told if you get the working steps right and answer wrong that you would still pass. In pharmacy, you must get the calculation right. You can't tell a patient that you got the working right but not the final answer and that is why you gave them a drug overdose. Talking about modelling, pharmacists do something called drug modelling which is a step in the production of medicines. If you are a medicinal chemist or pharmacist working in the drug manufacturing industry, you will do drug modelling and you learn that too at university. 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by TV01(m): 4:19pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
doublex: 1. What method did I use 2. How is it unfair? 3. How did I use it to discredit women? As for "white" men discrediting "black" men in terms of "advancement", if they can empirically demonstrate that they have contributed more, I have no problem with that. It remains for black men to compete - if they so choose - and show otherwise. Science is not sentimental or emotional. TV |
Re: Women In STEM by Stillfire: 5:47pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
TV01: Are you seriously trying to rule out the fact that the way the genders are nurtured does not influence the decisions they eventually make? 6 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by cococandy(f): 5:54pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
This is funny and accurate. babygirlfl: 6 Likes |
Re: Women In STEM by TV01(m): 6:49pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
Stillfire: Ah Stilly, so you at once deign not to to answer any of my assertions and at the same time charge me with something I did not say? . Why should women be at 45% in TEM, why not 60% like in medicine. Why does it make them lazy ! I'm sure nurture influences everyones choices to some degree, and doubtless it's at play here also. However, the fact remains that when it comes to the requirements of technology engineering and mathamatics, men' brains are better suited. Does that mean women can't excel in those areas? No, it just means that they won't tend to go there as much and consequently have fewer outliers. Other factors would be women' situations and life choices - they typically try and juggle family (for which read child-rearing) with career, this also informs their choices. If you want to make a case for "nurture" being the overriding factor, please do so. I figure you are able to present your position absent snide asides and "skirt-surfing". TV skirt surfer* - one who lacks the nous to rebut opinions or present a cogent case on a topic, but instead chooses to indirectly make baseless insinuations and trite asides - typically by referencing their pain indirectly as a response to another post. Closely related to trolls, but typically sadder, and with a tendency to whinge and present as emotionally skewed 1 Like |
Re: Women In STEM by Pidggin(f): 6:53pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
johnson232: See this one sha, asking me what i know about communication, hmmm |
Re: Women In STEM by Nobody: 7:24pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
TV01: Are women at 45% in TEM? |
Re: Women In STEM by Nobody: 7:28pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
There are few female in Engineering not because it's hard but it takes only a strong woman to practise as one. What's the essence of studying Engineering and will never practise it?. Infact in ALL Nigerian Universities, cutoff points to get admitted in Medicine & Surgery and Pharmacy topples Engineering. Chemical Engineering & Petroleum and gas Engineering have large numbers of female compared to others and it's not in any way easier but because it doesn't require much strenous activities, most women tend to venture into it. 5 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Women In STEM by TV01(m): 7:48pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
Mindfulness:That was Stillfires assertion of where women should be. I merely questioned why so low and why she described them as lazy for not being there ! I bring no charge against women for their choices, l just have my opinions as to why. And I certainly don't think "nurture" or structural discrimination are the main reasons women are supposedly "under-represented", even if it does play a part. Stillfire: TV 1 Like |
Re: Women In STEM by crackhaus: 7:58pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
TV01: 5 Likes |
Re: Women In STEM by Nobody: 7:59pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
TV01: Ok. Thanks for clarifying. I bring no charge against women for their choices, l just have my opinions as to why. And I certainly don't think "nurture" or structural discrimination are the main reasons women are supposedly "under-represented", even if it does play a part. Why? What part and to what extent? 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by crackhaus: 8:12pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
FrancisTony:Do you know that most of the time, you come off sounding like you don't actually know what you're talking about? I said most, not all of the time... before you start getting your panties in a bunch and developing a migraine. 4 Likes |
Re: Women In STEM by coogar: 8:32pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
crackhaus: Timbuktou: women don't have the mental capacity to cope with STEM in the long run. the reason why you find them more in medicine/pharmacy is because it involves little or no math! medicine = physics + chemistry + biology engineering = physics + chemistry + math. biology is the easiest science subject so women tend to opt for that choice than what involves advanced math! you should see the babes in my faculty when i was school. they were very few and 95% of them were tom boys with the body of a 12-year old boy. 2 Likes |
Re: Women In STEM by Nobody: 8:50pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
[img]http://cdn.meme.am/instances/54982300.jpg[/img] Butthurt is allowed. E pain am o! Is it my fault women in your area of life aren't intelligent enough? Biology is the easiest course yet most science students come out better in Mathematics than Biology. 8 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by Nobody: 8:53pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
coogar: Do you know that the study of Physics requires A GREAT DEAL of Math and mathematical ability? If you want to be a physicist you got to LOVE Math. Sorry to say this but this your post teems with false beliefs. 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by coogar: 8:56pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
Mindfulness: so you are saying to study physics, you would do much more math than if you study math itself? christ - can you hear yourself?
i am sorry to say you are not an intelligent human being! 2 Likes |
Re: Women In STEM by ApexTitan(m): 9:07pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
Interesting discussion here. Something that the people who back the push for gender equality in the STEM fields seem to downplay or out-rightly ignore is the fact that there is a marked difference in how the male and female brains are wired. (https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders, http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/how-male-female-brains-differ ) These differences among other things, ultimately hold the reason why the different genders even under identical conditions tend to sway in large numbers in the directions of particular choices. This is a biological reality so twist and turn as some people may, men and women will naturally gravitate towards certain fields. This is a given so any ideology that places itself against the fact will ultimately turn out to be an exercise in futility. This all appears to be a problem because champions of the equality movement feel "oppressed" and "sidelined" whereas in reality this is just nature running its course, all of the observable data out there corroborates this fact. Scandinavian countries even with their strong position on gender equality still have STEM fields dominated by men. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by Nobody: 9:10pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
coogar: This is not what I was saying. I was explaining to you that the following equation does not make any sense: medicine = physics + chemistry + biology I will try to make it easier for you. If you study Medicine, you need to do Physics. The study of Physics requires Math. Understood? What next? You said that Biology is the easiest Science. Well, that is HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE. There are many fields in Engineering that would be considered easier than Genetics by MANY people. And who told you that Biology does not, depending on specialization, require Math? More? 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Women In STEM by coogar: 9:27pm On Oct 15, 2015 |
Mindfulness: don't even try to swim against the tide. those equations make perfect sense. the engineering students are studying math & physics. the medical students have only physics to contend with and it's mostly in their first year(A'level physics). what does the average doctor know about kirchoff's law? abeg, comot for road.....
this is bullshyte! what sort of math are we talking about? the math of cramming formulas & inputing? that is what you want to compare to jacobi method, gauss siedel, advanced laplace transforms and spine-shattering calculus?
biology, by an astronomical mile, is the easiest science subject cos all the students don't consider it an abstract subject. even a kid of 5 can relate with the topics cos you see those things day to day. you cannot compare it to math. how difficult are the math subjects that medical students take? they do the fake math courses in uni. engineering students do MTH 101, medical students do MTH 105 & its variants. their physics is also different from the ones engineering students do in the first year. there's a reason you would find more females in medicine than engineering, it's because most females cannot cope with the rigours attached to math! 2 Likes |
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