elphem:

Let me give you one closest to you; check the head of offices around you and particularly VC and secondary school principals u will surely get what i'm envisaging.

Actually, I don't

nferyn: I ignored your questions because you are not a woman and I am not a woman, therefore the questions you are asking may not be relevant at all to women! Or what do you think?

damygurl: Equality? Give me a break; women do not want equality; they just want to be happy/loved/fulfilled. Would you like to be the head of your future family? Ask men out and face rejection? Be drafted into the army when there are wars? Be unable to bear children or know for sure if your partner's children are yours?

Give me a break, there will be no equality!

nferyn:

Actually, I don't

What elphem is trying to say is that there are a lot of Nigerian women in high places especially in the field of education. For example, the vice chancellor of Covenant University is a woman.

Seun:

nferyn: I ignored your questions because you are not a woman and I am not a woman, therefore the questions you are asking may not be relevant at all to women! Or what do you think?

That's an easy cop out. Why do you enter the discussion in the first place then?

Seun:

damygurl: Equality? Give me a break; women do not want equality; they just want to be happy/loved/fulfilled. Would you like to be the head of your future family? Ask men out and face rejection? Be drafted into the army when there are wars? Be unable to bear children or know for sure if your partner's children are yours?

Give me a break, there will be no equality!

If you're not a woman, how would you possiblly know? You claim to be speaking in the name of all womanhood. It kind of makes me think about a father that speaks in the name of his children without even knowing or asking what they think.

Seun:

What elphem is trying to say is that there are a lot of Nigerian women in high places especially in the field of education. For example, the vice chancellor of Covenant University is a woman.

That doesn't say anything about the ratios or about their behaviour

We have [b]hundreds of women [/b]on this forum. How come only two of them have found the time to respond to my 'misrepresentation' of their beliefs on this thread? There's nothing keeping them from speaking out, is there? Aren't they active on other topics? Why not this one?

Seun:

We have hundreds of women [/b]on this forum. How come only two of them have found the time to respond to my 'misrepresentation' of their beliefs on this thread? There's nothing keeping them from speaking out, is there? Aren't they active on other topics? Why not this one?

Yes, and the ones that did speak out, did so quite eloquently. You're still ignoring their argument.

Seun:

damygurl: Equality? Give me a break; [b]women do not want equality; they just want to be happy/loved/fulfilled. Would you like to be the head of your future family? Ask men out and face rejection? Be drafted into the army when there are wars? Be unable to bear children or know for sure if your partner's children are yours?

Give me a break, there will be no equality!

This is as close as you can get to insulting without actually insulting.

1. Head of the family: you assume a priori that the man is the head of the family. This is mysogenic nonsense
2. Ask men out and face rejection: what this has to do with feminism, I honestly don't know
3. Be drafted into the army. Happens, see Israel. Its the mysogenic, patriarchical society that does not give them the chance
4. Be unable to bear children or know for sure if your partner's children are yours? Let you go through the pain of childbirth. I wonder if you would want to change places. I was present when my son was born, all the way through labour. I am to see the first man that went through such an ordeal. Anyway, this is so peripheral to the question that I cannot seen why you brought it up: you cannot possibly change biologic reality

I've read the account of the problems with you familly, Seun. Re-evaluate your position on feminism in the light of your own situation. You'll understand what I'm talking about

The unequal gender relations still have a lot of effect on the mentality of people. It's hard to try to fight the status quo if you're not shielded from the consequences. The analogy may be a little bit over the top (although only a little bit): it's like blaming the slaves for their plight because they did not rise up against their masters

Seun:

damygurl: Equality? Give me a break; women do not want equality; they just want to be happy/loved/fulfilled. Would you like to be the head of your future family? Ask men out and face rejection? Be drafted into the army when there are wars? Be unable to bear children or know for sure if your partner's children are yours?

Give me a break, there will be no equality!

says who? u? now dats funny!! wat da frick u mean by happy/loved/fufilled? in case u lost track of wat we talking about it's Women not lil'Babies and even babies want more dan dat. i feel sorry 4 u if dats da way u view woman. don't worry u gon learn!!!!! in case u still daydreaming well get with da real world. women don't wait to be asked out anymore they go 4 wat they want. didn't we talk about diz war thing b4. wat station u be watching. try bbc and cnn so u can see da female soldiers in action.
u wanna tell me u feel sad u not d one givin birth to da baby? u think childbirth is just going to da hospital after 9months and just droppin da baby out!!! boi u got a lot to learn!!!!!!!! think of da time u waz in da greatest pain ever maybe 4rm breakin ur arm or wateva now think of wat it's gon feel like if dat pain waz multiplied by 500. it feels good right? and u wanna experience dat sorta pain over and over. i don't think so!!!!!
well if u wanna know if da baby is urs dats very real simply try DNA testin.

wat u mean give u a break!!!! if those people who put an end to slavery had taken a break and said lets stop worrying ourselves there will never equality and an end to it who knows maybe u might be on one of them rice plantations!!!!!!!!!

Damygurl, as a feminist, what exactly do you want? Do you want to cut off your frontware and grow a man's organ and become equal to a man, or are you simple asking for a little more respect?

Gosh! u just don't get it do u? and nferyn is right how cum u don't answer da question? cuz u know we r right!!! when da blk peeps wanted equal rights with the white peeps did they say we want to becum white? no !! rights is not about becumin someone else it's about havin da same priviledge as osme else. get it?!!
when da gay people fought 4 their rights did dey say they wann abecum straight?
the word here is[b] EQUALITY [/b] not CHANGE!!!!

Equality is a social state of affairs in which certain different people have the same status in a certain respect. There are different forms of equality, depending on the persons and social situations in question. For example, one may consider equality of the sexes in opportunities for employment; the people in question are men and women (contrasted) and the social situation is the search for a job. As another example, equal opportunity refers to the idea that all people should start out in life from the same platform (i.e. all should have equal opportunities in life, regardless of where they were born or who their parents were).

Equal opportunity makes sense to me, but equality does not. There is a saying that no two fingers are equal. Even among the men, there is no equality.

Equal opportunity makes sense, but what you're really asking for is more opportunities for women. I don't know; I don't see myself as someone who has denied women opportunities. For example, on this site, you are allowed to join whether you're a man or woman and women are treated with a little bit more attention, and yet for every 100 men we have only 43 women.

Gosh u still don't get it!!!!! i pray u do!! we talking about gender equality wat has it got to do with fingers not been equal?!! 4rm ur earlier post u don't sound like someoone who respects them 4 all their full talents. u talk like u think of them in diz they can't think 4 themsleves. acording to u we don't need no rights all we need is to be happy/loved and fufilled!! dat don't sound like someone whoz gon appreaciate a gurl been his boss or respect da wife 4 makin more money!!! we not talking sites ther is more to it dan dat. and r we supposed to thank u 4 not putting restrictions on ur site!! men only?!! well ur site ain't gon be dat much fun without da gurlz!!! yahoo, msn and da rest don't put restrictions too!! we talking about da real world here. where women and men gotta compete to get a job, be sent to college and all da rest!!!!

Seun, I think you'll never learn

Seun:

Equal opportunity makes sense to me, but equality does not. There is a saying that no two fingers are equal. Even among the men, there is no equality.

Gender Equality = equal opportunity. You're putting up a strawman

Seun:

Equal opportunity makes sense, but what you're really asking for is more opportunities for women. I don't know; I don't see myself as someone who has denied women opportunities.

All right, because you think [/i]you never denied any women, everything is fine and dandy. All women have equal opportunities? Even when women legally have equal opportunities, that doesn't mean that there are no mechanisms in society that put women in second place. I know for certain that that there is no such thing as equal opportunities for women in Nigeria. Just look at how inheritances are handled.
This is very comparable to how racism is perpetuated throughout western societies: [i]see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil (I can elaborate the argument if you insist, but I won't do it unless asked for)

Seun:

For example, on this site, you are allowed to join whether you're a man or woman and women are treated with a little bit more attention, and yet for every 100 men we have only 43 women.

This is completely irrelevant. Give me a breakdown of internet penetration among gender in Nigeria. Then we can begin to talk

All right, thank you. I'm a male chauvinist pig and you're not. Thank you very much!

Typical quote from a Nigerian woman:
"yo as for me, if i kinda make more than my boo, i'll cut back my hours, spend it in the spa, go shopping, invent new dishes, shoo he better make more than me, let him pamper me, spoil me, ah i'm working part-time now and i hate it

besides i like when my man is in control and takes responsibility. shoo i need to feel like a woman

after i go through hell every month, carry a baby for 9 months, learn how to cook, take care of the kids, keep the house neat , and all that good stuff. and all men do is wat sef?

then i'll now go to work 9-5 and to top it off now earn more than him. na craze

now if its cause of condition thats a different case but if i had a choice.....shoo"

http://www.naijaryders.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=119390

Seun:

All right, thank you. I'm a male chauvinist pig and you're not. Thank you very much!

Way to avoid an argument. Address the issues and prove you're not.
I sense you have the force in you, young padwan

Seun:

Typical quote from a Nigerian woman:
"yo as for me, if i kind of make more than my boo, i'll cut back my hours, spend it in the spa, go shopping, invent new dishes, shoo he better make more than me, let him pamper me, spoil me, ah i'm working part-time now and i hate it

besides i like when my man is in control and takes responsibility. shoo i need to feel like a woman

after i go through hell every month, carry a baby for 9 months, learn how to cook, take care of the kids, keep the house neat , and all that good stuff. and all men do is what sef?

then i'll now go to work 9-5 and to top it off now earn more than him. na craze

now if its cause of condition thats a different case but if i had a choice.shoo"

http://www.naijaryders.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=119390

And that proves what exactly?

Seun:


after i go through hell every month, carry a baby for 9 months, learn how to cook, take care of the kids, keep the house neat , and all that good stuff. and all men do is what sef?

then i'll now go to work 9-5 and to top it off now earn more than him. na craze

y she gotta do all d work? have a lil pity. she's da only one doing everything. wat excuse does da guy have not to help out with da kids and do da cleaning and all dem other stuffz. wat law states dat it's da womens job to do them?!!i know ther iz notin he can do about da 9monhs thing but wat about da rest.

Abeg make we hear word. Even after the Beijing stuff how many of the so called women folks have had thier way. It's only a mirage especially here in Nigeria.

elphem:

Abeg make we hear word. Even after the Beijing stuff how many of the so called women folks have had their way. It's only a mirage especially here in Nigeria.

Abeg make we hear word. Even after the Beijing stuff how many of the so called women folks have had thier way. It's only a mirage especially here in Nigeria.

Beijing wats dat? yea dats exactly wat we talking about dat da women r not been given equal rights!!!

Nferyn,

Why should feminists fight for only equal opportunities? Why not fight for total opportunity? What if the opportunities available to men in a particular society (which are the same opportunities that feminists want women to have) aren't enough to guarantee anyone's happiness?

It's better to think in terms of absolutes rather than relatives. This is one of the reasons I'm somewhat suspicious of feminists when they use the word 'equality'. Why not fight your own fight? Why define what you want in terms of what other groups have?

Ka:

Nferyn,

Why should feminists fight for only equal opportunities? Why not fight for total opportunity? What if the opportunities available to men in a particular society (which are the same opportunities that feminists want women to have) aren't enough to guarantee anyone's happiness?

It's better to think in terms of absolutes rather than relatives. This is one of the reasons I'm somewhat suspicious of feminists when they use the word 'equality'. Why not fight your own fight? Why define what you want in terms of what other groups have?

Ka,

It just happens to be that women have to deal with a legacy of extreme oppression all over the globe. If you only fight for enlarging the cake without fighting for equal gender opportunities, women are still going to be left with the crumbs, and that only if they're allowed at the table at all.. Happiness is a relative phenomenon: you look at your immediate peers and if the equation is positive, you'll be happy, even if you have much less than the person you'll never be in contact with..

I don't really understand your second paragraph. Can you ellaborate the argument a little?

i understand wat he is saying but how is dat gon be possible. u want us to do our own thing but da rights we want and r fightin 4 r d onez da guyz already have but we don't have. we want equal rights in dat we wanna be treated da same way and givinf da same rigts as men.!!!! wat u r talking about might apply to some other stuff but we talkin gender equality and it's btw 2 genders. take 4 example dis 2 twins. A boi and gurl!!!da parents favor da boi more dan d gurl so she goes protestin to da parents i want u guys to favor and luv me too. da parent already decided to send da boi to college but they want d gurl to stay at home. wat is she supposed to fight 4? da rightsto go to skool like her brotha right? so u c ur theory can't really apply when wetalking gender rights and gender quality. cuz dagurl can go and say cuz shewant to have her own thing her parents should open a shop 4 her when wat she really wants is to go to college too.

If you only fight for enlarging the cake without fighting for equal gender opportunities, women are still going to be left with the crumbs, and that only if they're allowed at the table at all.

See, Nferyn? Again, you're defining your goals in terms of other people's goals. I didn't say 'enlarge' the cake - when I said 'total opportunity', I mean they should fight for total opportunity for themselves, for what is right for them without being overly concerned at what other groups are getting.

Let me illustrate:

- Ka asks for enough food to fill his stomach. He gets that, and eats, and is happy.

- Nferyn, sees that the amount that Ka has asked for has filled him up. So he asks for an amount of food equal to what Ka has asked for. Unfortunately, it happens that Nferyn's stomach is larger than Ka's so when he eats, he isn't filled up.

And this is the problem with defining your goals in terms of other people's.

Or perhaps another solution to the 'equality' problem is to reduce men's 'rights' to the level of women.



Damygurl,

u want us to do our own thing but da rights we want and r fightin 4 r d onez da guyz already have but we don't have.

I don't really understand this argument of 'rights'. What 'rights' does anyone have in this world, except the rights that other people allow him/her to have?

we want equal rights in that we want to be treated da same way and givinf da same rigts as men.

Really? I'm sure you don't really mean that. Do you want to be told to get back to work a couple of weeks after you've had your first child, as men are asked to do for example? I think you'll find that (as I've already mentioned to Nferyn), it is better to determine what will make you happy and concentrate on getting that, rather than looking at what 'rights' men have.

take 4 example this 2 twins. A boi and girl!!!da parents favor da boi  more dan d girl so she goes protestin to da parents i want u guys to favor and love me too. da parent already decided to send da boi to college but they want d girl to stay at home. what is she supposed to fight 4? da rightsto go to skool like her brotha right?

She is supposed to fight for the opportunity (not right) to go to school not simply because her brother is going, but because school will enable her to develop her abilities and give her more choices in life.

@Ka

I understand what you're saying, but I'm surely not seeing the fight for equal opportunities as one defined by the boundaries that men face. Ultimately, we have an organisation of society that is catering to specific needs and wants of men. the fight for equal gender opportunities does not limit itself to women being able to do everything men can do, but rather to ensure that women have all opportunities to be their best.

At this stage, we're so far removed from that ultimate goal that some basic legal equality would already be a big step forward.

did i say she wanna go to college cuz her bro is going According to me i said dat  

damygurl:

what she really wants is to go to college too.

why should she have to fight 4 da oppourtunity to go to college? if she got equal rights and some people don't view women as been weak then her parents will send her to collge because it's her natural rights too.
Equal opportunity is a descriptive term for an approach intended to give equal access to an environment or benefits, such as education, employment, health care, or social welfare to all, often with emphasis on members of various social groups which might have at some time suffered from discrimination. This can involve the hiring of workers and other such practices. Social groupings generally emphasized in such a way are those delineated by aspects of gender, race, or religion. so oppourtunity and rights sorta r da same.

Do you want to be told to get back to work a couple of weeks after you've had your first child, as men are asked to do for example? why r u guyz mixing up havin equal rights with wanting to be a man. we don't wanna be a man that is we don't wanna change our gender. wat we want and wat we r saying is dat we want and yea i heard wat u said about d talking interms of wat i want. well i can tell u all women want equal rights.
When d people who protested against slavery wrere protesting did they say i want nope they said we want freedom!!!!!!!!

Ka:


- Nferyn, sees that the amount that Ka has asked for has filled him up. So he asks for an amount of food equal to what Ka has asked for. Unfortunately, it happens that Nferyn's stomach is larger than Ka's so when he eats, he isn't filled up.

And this is the problem with defining your goals in terms of other people's.

Or perhaps another solution to the 'equality' problem is to reduce men's 'rights' to the level of women.

o crap!!!! double crap!!! wat has food gotta do with wat we talking about. we talking rights as in get diz now cuz i donlike havin to repeat myself evrytime. house cleaning shouldn't be seen as da womans job. taking care of da hoouse and baby shouldn't be a womans job alone. when a guy and gurl r fightin 4 position it shouldn't be given to da guy just becuz he's a guy when da gurlz credentials r better. how many times have u heard stories of wives beaten their husband now compare dat to da ****** of times u'veheard of husbands and boifriendz beating their wife and burlfriends. though u can't try dat in d state she gon have da person arrested but their r cases where d gurl still protects da guy cuz she was raised up to believe dat da guy can do wateva he wants with her including punishing her if he chose to. it happens evrytime. thiz is very common in nigeria. da husband abuses da wife everytime she leaves him and go to her parents house. da parents tell her no matter wat he does she just gottatake it y? bcuz he's da husband. dat shouldn't be so but dats da kinda society we live in!!! i have seen dis happen so i know wat i'm talking about!!!!!

Damygurl,

I don't think you've understood what I've said at all. In fact, you seem to be talking about something completely different altogether.

Well, from the swear words you're using and the number of exclamation marks you've used, I'd say you're really wound up over the whole thing, and I don't think there's any point in debating anything with anyone in that kind of state. So I'll leave you and wish you good luck in your pursuit of equal 'rights' (whatever those may be).



Nferyn,

I won't prolong this debate, because I know you have an appointment to keep on this thread. But I'm still somewhat dubious about the notion of legal equality - what do you mean by this? Do you mean laws that apply equally to men and women, or that men and women should have the same laws applied to them, or what? Please explain.

LOL!when did crap become a cuss word? and who told ya i'm in a kinda of state. i believe strongly in equal rights and i'm gon defend it anyday but i don't gt worked up over i just get annoyed at peeps who be sayin stuff and it last about 2seconds. after dat post i've danced to lighters up had my alltime fav sht bread cookie so don't worry about me just say wateva u wanna say cuz i will say wats on my mind. u say somefin to me!! and ifi got a strong opinion about it i'm gon say wat i gotta say!!!!!and plz make me understand ur point cuz according to u i don't!!

Ka:

Damygurl,

So I'll leave you and wish you good luck in your pursuit of equal 'rights' (whatever those may be).

one of da things this gurly don't like is when u r like arguing, debatin, talking about a ponit with someone and the person ain't got notin to say. instead of sayin dat he/she now cums up with somefin like nevermind or i leave u to it. da best way to communicate is to make da other person understand u. no wonder relationship don't last lng nowadayz!