Thanks to everyone so far who has dropped a response but most people are not really attacking the issue from the direction I was looking for.

  Strictly spiritually speaking:
If we all agree homosexuality is part of the sinful nature, and we all struggle with different sins and have tendencies towards different sins, then is it really far-fetched to say some people were simple "born" with their sinful nature inclined towards this particular tendency?

  And we can't really blame homosexuality on the west, it has existed since early biblical times its just that its getting more rampant & acceptable now.

@Manmustwac,
tried adding the poll but NL is acting up again.

JeSoul:

  Thanks to everyone so far who has dropped a response but most people are not really attacking the issue from the direction I was looking for.

  Strictly spiritually speaking:
If we all agree homosexuality is part of the sinful nature, and we all struggle with different sins and have tendencies towards different sins, then is it really far-fetched to say some people were simple "born" with their sinful nature inclined towards this particular tendency?

  And we can't really blame homosexuality on the west, it has existed since early biblical times its just that its getting more rampant & acceptable now.

@Manmustwac,
tried adding the poll but NL is acting up again.

We had to digress for a moment since some smart people think being a homo and being a thief are the same thing. We'll get back on track.

@michelin89

Being an atheist, u can see it from a christian point of view, which is that a sin is a sin and should be scorned at however this doesnt mean all men are not sinner because we believe all has fallen short of the glory of God. now the Salvation we believe in is based on the fact that one should not make excuse for a sin but seek repentance and strive to avoid the same in the future.

Now hw many time must u try? until u stop breating.

@pilgrim
how body?   What say you on the issue?
@Jesoul
how body, quick questions, how should hermaphrodites express their sexual orientation biblically?
Do you remember choosing to like boys?
Do you know what transgender is?

Strictly spiritually speaking:
If we all agree homosexuality is part of the sinful nature, and we all struggle with different sins and have tendencies towards different sins, then is it really far-fetched to say some people were simple "born" with their sinful nature inclined towards this particular tendency?

That is the point I tried to drive home to C2H05 yesterday, we get the urge to have sex with the sex we are attracted to not the other way round, every other sin is common to every human being, stealing even almost everyone will get the urge to want to kill someone depending how we are pushed, but who fantasizes about homosexuality!

@michelin89

Being an atheist, u can see it from a christian point of view, which is that a sin is a sin and should be scorned at however this doesnt mean all men are not sinner because we believe all has fallen short of the glory of God. now the Salvation we believe in is based on the fact that one should not make excuse for a sin but seek repentance and strive to avoid the same in the future.

Now hw many time must u try? until u stop breating.

AEjiro:

@michelin89

Being an atheist, u can see it from a christian point of view, which is that a sin is a sin and should be scorned at however this doesnt mean all men are not sinner because we believe all has fallen short of the glory of God. now the Salvation we believe in is based on the fact that one should not make excuse for a sin but seek repentance and strive to avoid the same in the future.

Now hw many time must u try? until u stop breating.

Whether it is a sin or not is the least of my problem. What I am interested in is the idea people have of homosexuality. I think it's being banalized when it is considered a problem of circumstance.

Just like everybody is a potential murderer, everyone is a potential homo. Isn't that some stupid logic??  

JeSoul:

  Thanks to everyone so far who has dropped a response but most people are not really attacking the issue from the direction I was looking for.

  Strictly spiritually speaking:
If we all agree homosexuality is part of the sinful nature, and we all struggle with different sins and have tendencies towards different sins, then is it really far-fetched to say some people were simple "born" with their sinful nature inclined towards this particular tendency?

  And we can't really blame homosexuality on the west, it has existed since early biblical times its just that its getting more rampant & acceptable now.

If you Christians claim that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their homosexual acts, then why are there still homosexuals still alive today, or did God fail to kill them? Why did he let these people become homosexuals in the first place, if he hated it so much?

Horus:

If you Christians claim that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their homosexual acts, then why are there still homosexuals still alive today, or did God fail to kill them? Why did he let these people become homosexuals in the first place, if he hated it so much?

Because God gave man freewill. Doesn't he look like a sadist? He likes sending people to hell.

Chrisbenogor:

@pilgrim
how body?   What say you on the issue?

@Chrisgenobor,

I'm doing great, thanks. And you?

Apart from an observation I made earlier from various sources, I've been reserved thus far. The initial reply was to the topic, as regards whether someone could be born gay. My answer is that we simply do not (or, may not) know or draw any established scientific conclusive deductions. As such, many people argue back and forth between being 'hard-wired' that way, others contending that it's 'acquired' through external factors (environment, etc). It all depends on what context the answer being sought for is presented.

@AEjiro
can u answer my last post question on
What about
Guys that dosent feel any bit of chemistry,arousal or erection with a woman
Girls tht dont feel any chemistry or satisfation with men,no matter how hard they try to please or pretend.
Do they choose to be that way?

@AEjiro
   can u answer my last post question on
What about
  Guys that dosent feel any bit of chemistry,arousal or erection with a woman
  Girls tht dont feel any chemistry or satisfation with men,no matter how hard they try to please or pretend.
  Do they choose to be that way?

michelin89:

We had to digress for a moment since some smart people think being a homo and being a thief are the same thing. We'll get back on track.

lol . . . oya continue

Horus:

If you Christians claim that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their homosexual acts, then why are there still homosexuals still alive today, or did God fail to kill them? Why did he let these people become homosexuals in the first place, if he hated it so much?

You're trying to be mischeivous aren't you Horus? I'm tempted to respond but it'll take us off topic, maybe on another thread on another day.

I am not a medical doctor but I think I know a bit about hormones and genes. First and foremost, some men are born naturally with excess female hormones and I think its called the progesterone or egesterone. You will find these men in many societies today displaying woman like behaviours and you will mostly see them in the company of girls. In Nigeria, people even go ahead and call them 'obirin' meaning woman. For me, I think for these kind of people, they are 'born' with it and as such, it belies on them to fight it and do the right thing. It is also their parents' responsibilities not to indulge their woman like tendencies from childhood. Trust me, they can be overcome. Some girls are also born with excess male hormones called the testosterone. They do same thing as described for their male counterparts except in reverse.

The above line is very much unrelated to being gay. having the excess of the opposite sex hormones mainly manifest in physical features not in behaviours.

People are not born gay.

I am not a medical doctor but I think I know a bit about hormones and genes. First and foremost, some men are born naturally with excess female hormones and I think its called the progesterone or egesterone. You will find these men in many societies today displaying woman like behaviours and you will mostly see them in the company of girls. In Nigeria, people even go ahead and call them 'obirin' meaning woman. For me, I think for these kind of people, they are 'born' with it and as such, it belies on them to fight it and do the right thing. It is also their parents' responsibilities not to indulge their woman like tendencies from childhood. Trust me, they can be overcome. Some girls are also born with excess male hormones called the testosterone. They do same thing as described for their male counterparts except in reverse.

The above line is very much unrelated to being gay. having the excess of the opposite sex hormones mainly manifest in physical features not in behaviours.

People are not born gay.

I work with identical male twins aged 32 years. They are both GAY.  

Me sef, I don't know how to explain this one.  One claims to be a devout christian, who prays,goes church every sunday and preaches the word (as I mentioned earlier),but his brother is a loose canon.

One thing they both said is that they have felt this way since they could remember, . . . . .  

No vex me oh. . . . I had to ask them as this topic made me even more curious.  

@audio, As far as research goes(even though i don't necessarily beliv most of d tymz in dier distorted result), There is no evidence or proof dat homosexualism is as a result of onez genetic make up even Nwakwo -with his elaborate xplanation,dat only alluded to the fact that our judgement is alwayz based on westernized standards not 4rm our own immidiate xperience and suituation-can agree wit me dat there's no evidence to back up dat claim.So audio b4 U accuse us of bein empty brain fill up Ur own lame brain cos Ur perspective of d issue to me is dat of ventriloquism,U pick up stuf dat other ppl write and write it lyk it's Urz.
Nwakwo's perspective makes an interesting reading but it's a total disconnect 4rm reality.Homosexualism has more to do with indulgence absolutely nothin to do with d genes,but i know d aim here is to go into research with a preconcieved idea of d result and do evrythin possible it comez out dat way dat's d recipe,i wonder where d so-called objectivity is in those opinion research

Chrisbenogor:

@Jesoul
how body

 My brotha I dey o jare   good to see you're alive and well  .

Chrisbenogor:
quick questions, how should hermaphrodites express their sexual orientation biblically?

  Well the bible doesn't really give a direct opinion on it (like many other issues) so if you want a direct 'biblical' answer I don't have one. However, in keeping with 'biblical values', I would say the choice is up to them to pick one side and stick with it. Don't most of them elect surgery to identify themselves as one or the other?

Chrisbenogor:
Do you remember choosing to like boys?

  Not vividly no. It's one of those 'natural inclination' things david mentioned in the 2nd post on this thread.

Chrisbenogor:
Do you know what transgender is?

Unfortunate confused people who choose to 'switch' sexes?

That is the point I tried to drive home to C2H05 yesterday, we get the urge to have sex with the sex we are attracted to not the other way round, every other sin is common to every human being, stealing even almost everyone will get the urge to want to kill someone depending how we are pushed, but who fantasizes about homosexuality!

 I half agree with you above. I understand those of homosexual persuation believe that its natural to them, but thats not really what's in contention. I do submit wholeheartedly homosexuality is a severe deviation from the natural order, I'm trying to understand why we (christians) seperate it from other sins when it could be its just another part of our sinful nature. I have never had the urge to kill anyone Chris so maybe you should speak for just urself?  

Secretz:

I work with identical male twins aged 32 years. They are both GAY.

Me sef, I don't know how to explain this one. One claims to be a devout christian, who prays,goes church every sunday and preaches the word (as I mentioned earlier),but his brother is a loose canon.

One thing they both said is that they have felt this way since they could remember, . . . . .

No vex me oh. . . . I had to ask them as this topic made me even more curious.

I'm glad you used the word "claim" . One cannot be a christian yet deliberately live in sin and obedience to the word. I wary of when they say "they've felt that way as long as they could remember" . . . what else do we expect them to say in their defense?

If not for the Saving Grace obtained via the Messiah most of Europe would have been levelled with Fire and Brimestone according to old testament Sodom and Gomorah style.

Born Gay my ass,

1. If i say I like money, does that mean i should go about stealing it.
2. If i say i like sex, does that mean i should go about sleeping with anything moving with skirt.

3. Yes sin has caused humans to experience genetic degeneration since the time of Adam, however that still does not determine our choice at the end of the day. The truth is that being gay has become a fashion and societal statement in western countries mostly amongst caucasians (its still a taboo amongst black americans). As such even those that choose to be gay would always look up a stupid reason for their condition.

4. If they claim to be born gay as they want us to believe, how come some of them married a woman, experience penial erection, ejaculate into the woman and enjoy sex with her. Or are they trying to tell me that since they were born gay, they still do not have control over their penial erection and ejaculation in the presence of a nake woman. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

All this gay business is just pure bullshit and symptoms of serious spiritual problems, in our society.

I believe there is an over-indulgence within the European culture (we have to remember that most of europe as we know it is a mixture of Ancient Barbarians that fought against the Romans and the enlightened cultures of Europe during those times) Hence i am not suprised that a lot of human degeneracy and madness and racism seems to be traceable to them all.

No2Atheism:

If not for the Saving Grace obtained via the Messiah most of Europe would have been levelled with Fire and Brimestone according to old testament Sodom and Gomorah style.

Born Gay my ass,

1. If i say I like money, does that mean i should go about stealing it.
2. If i say i like sex, does that mean i should go about sleeping with anything moving with skirt.

3. Yes sin has caused humans to experience genetic degeneration since the time of Adam, however that still does not determine our choice at the end of the day. The truth is that being gay has become a fashion and societal statement in western countries mostly amongst caucasians (its still a taboo amongst black americans). As such even those that choose to be gay would always look up a stupid reason for their condition.

4. If they claim to be born gay as they want us to believe, how come some of them married a woman, experience penial erection, ejaculate into the woman and enjoy sex with her. Or are they trying to tell me that since they were born gay, they still do not have control over their penial erection and ejaculation in the presence of a nake woman. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

All this gay business is just pure bullshit and symptoms of serious spiritual problems, in our society.

I believe there is an over-indulgence within the European culture (we have to remember that most of europe as we know it is a mixture of Ancient Barbarians that fought against the Romans and the enlightened cultures of Europe during those times) Hence i am not suprised that a lot of human degeneracy and madness and racism seems to be traceable to them all.

Why should I listen to a racist like you?

One thing i notice about the Caucasian culture is that they would create any medical excuse for even the most simplest behavioural pattern. Despite that such problems can be sometimes treated and analsysed by non-medical methods.

pilgrim.1:

@Chrisgenobor,

I'm doing great, thanks. And you?

Apart from an observation I made earlier from various sources, I've been reserved thus far. The initial reply was to the topic, as regards whether someone could be born gay. My answer is that we simply do not (or, may not) know or draw any established scientific conclusive deductions. As such, many people argue back and forth between being 'hard-wired' that way, others contending that it's 'acquired' through external factors (environment, etc). It all depends on what context the answer being sought for is presented.

Thanks! body dey for cloth!

@Jesoul

JeSoul:


 My brotha I dey o jare   good to see you're alive and well  .
  Well the bible doesn't really give a direct opinion on it (like many other issues) so if you want a direct 'biblical' answer I don't have one. However, in keeping with 'biblical values', I would say the choice is up to them to pick one side and stick with it. Don't most of them elect surgery to identify themselves as one or the other?

   Not vividly no. It's one of those 'natural inclination' things david mentioned in the 2nd post on this thread.

 Unfortunate confused people who choose to 'switch' sexes?
 I half agree with you above. I understand those of homosexual persuation believe that its natural to them, but thats not really what's in contention. I do submit wholeheartedly homosexuality is a severe deviation from the natural order, I'm trying to understand why we (christians) seperate it from other sins when it could be its just another part of our sinful nature. I have never had the urge to kill anyone Chris so maybe you should speak for just urself?  

JeSoul:


 My brotha I dey o jare   good to see you're alive and well  .
  Well the bible doesn't really give a direct opinion on it (like many other issues) so if you want a direct 'biblical' answer I don't have one. However, in keeping with 'biblical values', I would say the choice is up to them to pick one side and stick with it. Don't most of them elect surgery to identify themselves as one or the other?

   Not vividly no. It's one of those 'natural inclination' things david mentioned in the 2nd post on this thread.

 Unfortunate confused people who choose to 'switch' sexes?
 I half agree with you above. I understand those of homosexual persuation believe that its natural to them, but thats not really what's in contention. I do submit wholeheartedly homosexuality is a severe deviation from the natural order, I'm trying to understand why we (christians) seperate it from other sins when it could be its just another part of our sinful nature. I have never had the urge to kill anyone Chris so maybe you should speak for just urself?  

hehehehehe lol no mind me and urge to kill .
I cannot remember choosing to like girls either so do you think it will be any different for those who, it is always easy for us to say they should pick one and stick with it when we do not know how they feel inside.
As for those with transgender, would you blame them for their condition?
Again I ask you have you had the temptation of having sex with another girl? I know I have had thought of having sex with a girl but with guys!!!!! eeeewwwwww gross!

No2Atheism:

If not for the Saving Grace obtained via the Messiah most of Europe would have been levelled with Fire and Brimestone according to old testament Sodom and Gomorah style.

Born Gay my ass,

1. If i say I like money, does that mean i should go about stealing it.
2. If i say i like sex, does that mean i should go about sleeping with anything moving with skirt.

3. Yes sin has caused humans to experience genetic degeneration since the time of Adam, however that still does not determine our choice at the end of the day. The truth is that being gay has become a fashion and societal statement in western countries mostly amongst caucasians (its still a taboo amongst black americans). As such even those that choose to be gay would always look up a stupid reason for their condition.

4. If they claim to be born gay as they want us to believe, how come some of them married a woman, experience penial erection, ejaculate into the woman and enjoy sex with her. Or are they trying to tell me that since they were born gay, they still do not have control over their penial erection and ejaculation in the presence of a nake woman. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[size=18pt]All this gay business[/size] is just pure bullshit and symptoms of serious spiritual problems, in our society.

I believe there is an over-indulgence within the European culture (we have to remember that most of europe as we know it is a mixture of Ancient Barbarians that fought against the Romans and the enlightened cultures of Europe during those times) Hence i am not suprised that a lot of human degeneracy and madness and racism seems to be traceable to them all.

you hit the nail there.  most people dont know the big businesses pushing the "pink pound and dollars" down our throats. the gay lobby is one of the sleekest lobby you will ever see. it is so well oiled and  funded you dare not criticise them or your career is over.

JeSoul:

 I'm glad you used the word "claim"  . One cannot be a christian yet deliberately live in sin and obedience to the word. I wary of when they say "they've felt that way as long as they could remember" . . . what else do we expect them to say in their defense?  

one serbian told me some yrs ago her whole family were gays without explaining how they continue to create younger kids.  i definately believe they were not born that way

I'm an african & when problemz such as this occurz i'll treat it as my society,culture & tradition demands not try to copycat what is obtainable in other society.There's a big difference btw understanding and condoning a bad behaviour esp a complex & unnatural one as homosexualism.Now if I have a child(God 4bid sha) dat tellz me he's gay,of course i wont throw him away(datz understanding his suituation) neither will I accept him dat way(not condoning d suituation).The child should see d need to change,clumping understanding & condoning his behavior is to worsen an already bad case and this is where i ve problem with ppl in d west,the do d two and even go further to justify it thru thier scientific xplanation.Prior to d internet boom,it waz rare to talk abt dis as an issue but 2day d reality is different,we now ve uncontrolled access to information,gud,bad & ugly.Evry1 now has xpertise as to why som pple re gay,my question is where did U get all these ideas,of course it's a buk by a western author, Tsheeeeeew

Just as no one is born a robber!

No one is born a prostitute!

No one is born a lesbian!

No one is born a nympho!

No one is born a pervert!

No one is born a homosexual!


All these things come as a result of choices that have been made by these people. The choices have been made as a result of lack of moral standards and discipline and above all, lack of the knowledge of God!

Chrisbenogor:

@Jesoul hehehehehe lol no mind me and urge to kill

  lol    make sure you don't have any weapons nearby at all times    . . .

I cannot remember choosing to like girls either so do you think it will be any different for those who, it is always easy for us to say they should pick one and stick with it when we do not know how they feel inside.

 You're right its easy to tell someone else what to do when you yourself haven't gone thru it. However my brother easy or not easy for me to say, it is still the right thing for them to do - biblically.
 

As for those with transgender, would you blame them for their condition?

 I don't think we should ever be in the business of assigning blame but moreso about addressing and fixing the problem. Whether or not its their fault, it doesn't change the fact they are partakers of a gross deviation from the natural.

Again I ask you have you had the temptation of having sex with another girl? I know I have had thought of having sex with a girl but with guys!!!!! eeeewwwwww gross!

 lol see as Chris flipped the question on me   Insert a big, emphatic NO!   I have been hit on by other women and honestly it is just flat out disgusting and unsettling. Temptation usually comes to me disguised as a handsome son of adam    to that I'll plead guilty all day.

[b]i don't know what this thread is aimed at. i have followed it with keen interest and there are few questions i need to ask.

1) if gays or homosexuals are claiming to have gay genes would they have been born in the first place? genes are support to be passed from parent to offspring. it reminds me of two eunuchs in my community, they were (both are dead now) from the same parent. some of the village folks said they inherited it from their parents. pray, how could a parent have seered eunuchs if he were a eunuch himself.

2) are pedophiles and people who practice incest and those who have sex with dogs and horses born with that "condition"? i mean, i know a guy who said he first had sex with him mother and he in turn had sex with his own daughter. he seems to have that gene passed down from generations according to him.

3) what is the actual population of homosexuals? i don't think they are more than a handful in any society, europe or no europe.

4) and since the poster comes from a christian perspective, what is the position of the bible in this. from 1 cor 6:9-10 can we say thieves were born thieves? are drunkards born drunkards? should we say fornicators are born to fornicate?

these are just a few questions that we need to find answers to.[/b]

No2Atheism:

One thing i notice about the Caucasian culture is that[b] they would create any medical excuse for even the most simplest behavioural pattern[/b]. Despite that such problems can be sometimes treated and analsysed by non-medical methods.

You're right about that, and it is one thing I really dislike about the western culture. Instead of people to simply take responsiblity for their actions they blame it on everything from genes to hormonal imbalance to temporary insanity.

porka:

i don't know what this thread is aimed at. i have followed it with keen interest and there are few questions i need to ask.

1) if gays or homosexuals are claiming to have gay genes would they have been born in the first place? genes are support to be passed from parent to offspring. it reminds me of two eunuchs in my community, they were (both are dead now) from the same parent. some of the village folks said they inherited it from their parents. pray, how could a parent have seered eunuchs if he were a eunuch himself.

2) are pedophiles and people who practice incest and those who have sex with dogs and horses born with that "condition"? i mean, i know a guy who said he first had sex with him mother and he in turn had sex with his own daughter. he seems to have that gene passed down from generations according to him.
[b]
3) what is the actual population of homosexuals? i don't think they are more than a handful in any society, europe or no europe.

4) and since the poster comes from a christian perspective, what is the position of the bible in this. from 1 cor 6:9-10 can we say thieves were born thieves? are drunkards born drunkards? should we say fornicators are born to fornicate?

these are just a few questions that we need to find answers to.[/b]

the homosexual lobby is a tiny but very aggressive and vocal minority. they use the media to make it seems like the whole world isat it. it is a big lie and con on the weak and gulible.

You're right its easy to tell someone else what to do when you yourself haven't gone thru it. However my brother easy or not easy for me to say, it is still the right thing for them to do - biblically.

I give you that if you say biblically, but again you see that we cannot really tell if they should change or not.

Whether or not its their fault, it doesn't change the fact they are partakers of a gross deviation from the natural.

You did not have any input whatsoever to become a girl did you? can you say you are a partaker of being a girl ( I wonder how that sounds but I hope it gets my point across) People's genetic disorders are no fault of their own, the fact that the particular sequence has not been separated does not mean it might not be there.

Insert a big, emphatic NO!
Temptation usually comes to me disguised as a handsome son of adam  Cheesy  to that I'll plead guilty all day.

That is what I have been trying to say, dont you think that is how gross it is for them to feel that towards the opposite sex?

The brain does wonders my dear.

porka:

i don't know what this thread is aimed at. i have followed it with keen interest and there are few questions i need to ask.

1) if gays or homosexuals are claiming to have gay genes would they have been born in the first place? genes are support to be passed from parent to offspring. it reminds me of two eunuchs in my community, they were (both are dead now) from the same parent. some of the village folks said they inherited it from their parents. pray, how could a parent have seered eunuchs if he were a eunuch himself.

2) are pedophiles and people who practice incest and those who have sex with dogs and horses born with that "condition"? i mean, i know a guy who said he first had sex with him mother and he in turn had sex with his own daughter. he seems to have that gene passed down from generations according to him.
[b]
3) what is the actual population of homosexuals? i don't think they are more than a handful in any society, europe or no europe.

4) and since the poster comes from a christian perspective, what is the position of the bible in this. from 1 cor 6:9-10 can we say thieves were born thieves? are drunkards born drunkards? should we say fornicators are born to fornicate?

these are just a few questions that we need to find answers to.[/b]

the homosexual lobby is a tiny but very aggressive and vocal minority. they use the media to make it seems like the whole world isat it. it is a big lie and con on the weak and gulible.

JeSoul:

  lol    make sure you don't have any weapons nearby at all times    . . .
 You're right its easy to tell someone else what to do when you yourself haven't gone thru it. However my brother easy or not easy for me to say, it is still the right thing for them to do - biblically.
   I don't think we should ever be in the business of assigning blame but moreso about addressing and fixing the problem. Whether or not its their fault, it doesn't change the fact they are partakers of a gross deviation from the natural.
 lol see as Chris flipped the question on me   Insert a big, emphatic NO!   I have been hit on by other women and honestly it is just flat out disgusting and unsettling. Temptation usually comes to me disguised as a handsome son of adam    to that I'll plead guilty all day.

being tempted is not sin  it is yielding that is sin.  we all get tempted on a daily basis

porka:

i don't know what this thread is aimed at. i have followed it with keen interest and there are few questions i need to ask.

1) if gays or homosexuals are claiming to have gay genes would they have been born in the first place? genes are support to be passed from parent to offspring. it reminds me of two eunuchs in my community, they were (both are dead now) from the same parent. some of the village folks said they inherited it from their parents. pray, how could a parent have seered eunuchs if he were a eunuch himself.  

  Well there is no conclusive, solid proof or evidence of homosexuality being linked to ones genes so for now their claims will remain just claims.

2) [b]are pedophiles and people who practice incest and those who have sex with dogs and horses born with that "condition"? i mean, i know a guy who said he first had sex with him mother and he in turn had sex with his own daughter. he seems to have that gene passed down from generations according to him.

 That's the problem & the question. Spiritually speaking, they are also born with a sinful nature like the rest of us . . . but yet only some become those things. Is it the same for homosexuals? Can we blame it on the sinful nature?

3) what is the actual population of homosexuals? i don't think they are more than a handful in any society, europe or no europe.

 I don't know the exact figures but it varies from place to place. SanFran is way likely to have a higher population of homosexuals than say Alabama  

4) and since the poster comes from a christian perspective, what is the position of the bible in this. from 1 cor 6:9-10 can we say thieves were born thieves? are drunkards born drunkards? should we say fornicators are born to fornicate?
these are just a few questions that we need to find answers to. [/color]  [/b]

 Thanks for including scripture here. The fact that the bible lumps homosexuality with the other sins should tell us something right? If its a sin like the others then its also product of the sinful nature, right? albeit a very nasty product.

People are arguing saying homosexuality is learned from societal influences but I'm wondering if its not just another side effect from having the sinful nature? along with stealing, fornicating etc - that's the point of the thread my dear.