biina:

Why are you trying to make this into a Christianity issue? will it not also affect the muslims?
Do not confuse Christianity with religion. Not everyone that calls himself a pastor is truly doing the work of God.
While there are those genuinely working for God, most work for their own selfish ends, and see it as a way out of unemployment. Otherwise, how do you explain the fact that despite there being a church on almsot every street, we are still a nation wallowing in sin, with corruption pervading every area of our society.
Should we now say that any criminal that calls himself a pastor can no longer be scrutinized?
All religious institutions, like any other above board establishment, should provide details of their account to the government, and should be taxed when necessitated by the law.
Christianity should not encourage secrecy, that should be left to the cultist.

very true, abeg, very true, i thank God for His truth has set me free!!

@George D
What r u getting at?
U better read this thread carefully and fully understand it.
you point is totally out of context.

Jakumo no go kill me for this thread

Let us all put ourselves in the shoes of the government: If as Lagos state governor I have noticed the outrageous edifices that pastors and their churches own, that even the Nigerian Fire Service doesn't own, I shouldn't feel good about them not paying taxes. i mean some churches make enough money to pay salaries more than banks and we want to deceive ourselves that all their money is from GOODWILL, AND OFFERINGS,
Let us open our minds to the TRUTH. A pastor makes so much money from his church, then builds a MASSIVE office complex in the name of the church and expects not to pay taxes but collects rent? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!
As for those that ask why it is a Christianity issue? It is because Christians are the greatest HYPOCRITES on earth.
GOD help us all.

bawomolo:

Of course they should pay if they are shown to provide little or no community development.  I could care less if it was Guru Maraji's shrine being forced to pay taxes.

One minute you demand they should all pay, the next you claim they should  only be denied the status if they are shown not to provide aid to the community. Are you saying that the current stipulations for the non-profits are not ok? If yes, why? If no, then why are you going on about it.

Going by Fashola’s response, it seems he is not willing to make an issue of it; I am guessing it may be the case that many of the churches continue to abide by regulations. Why do I continue to feel this is just about your issue with  them being able to spend their money on big houses and jets, and not on what YOU would rather they spend it on? Why do I feel you are just feigning ignorance here cause you just cannot handle the fact that these organizations are able to recieve money from members of the public they way they do?

By the way, you really believe GOVERNMENT should be required to break down organizations into smaller bits for tax purposes? Are you kidding me? What the heck does that mean? The government, as huge as it is, should now stipulate how large businesses , non-profits included, can grow?? Is that really what YOU would prefer??

Nigeria's tax laws seem to work fine. I am not sure why this sudden belief that it does not work simply cause a few people resist paying their taxes. The governor himself has come out to say all should calm down, and that the tax laws are not the problem, but you believe they are?? WOW!!

We definitely need to separate the religious institution from business endeavors.
The church/mosque should not own an institution that is not dedicated to theology, nor should it own retail establishments. It should not be running a travel agency business for those going on hajj.
Business that cannot be directly related to their primary functions, should be spun off as separate entities, and should not be hidden under the tax haven of a church.

Sigh!!

This kind of topics arouses sentiments from Nigerians. I have towed that line several times on this forum, not ready to entangle myself in it at this moment. Love the back and forth argument from both parties.

@ No2Atheism,

You have a fine analytical mind! Where were you when I needed some analytical work done some months back!

Kobojunkie:

One minute you demand they should all pay, the next you claim they should  only be denied the status if they are shown not to provide aid to the community. Are you saying that the current stipulations for the non-profits are not ok? If yes, why? If no, then why are you going on about it.

tax exempt status should be determined on a case by case and not through an umbrella law. Open your books if you want to be exempt. Groups like redeem would be forced to list their donors.

Why do I feel you are just feigning ignorance here cause you just cannot handle the fact that these organizations are able to recieve money from members of the public they way they do?

your assumption is wrong. go read my posts in the religious section. I do not oppose donations to religious groups. Are you making this assumptions because am atheist?

By the way, you really believe GOVERNMENT should be required to break down organizations into smaller bits for tax purposes? Are you kidding me? What the heck does that mean? The government, as huge as it is, should now stipulate how large businesses , non-profits included, can grow?? Is that really what YOU would prefer??

yes you can call me a supporter of big government. There should be regulation on the tax exempt status of charity or NGO. show proof of financial propriety if you claim to be non-profit.

Nigeria's tax laws seem to work fine. I am not sure why this sudden belief that it does not work simply cause a few people resist paying their taxes. The governor himself has come out to say all should calm down, and that the tax laws are not the problem, but you believe they are?? WOW!!

Nigerian tax laws work fine? we would just agree to disagree on this one

The term nonprofit or not-for-profit does not mean there is no money in the organization, in fact most organizations deal with very large amounts of money flowing through out the organization. In fact when you look at the difference between how a NPO's money is handled and how a for profit enterprise handles their money you will see that the only difference is that there are no stock holders and the money is generally donated to NPO's and earned by for-profits.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_difference_between_for_profit_business_versus_non_profit_business_and_government

the argument against Nigerian churches isn't the money flowing out but how the money flowing out is used.

You seem to be glossing over this point.

We should know that these books are copyrighted materials of the pastors and religious leaders and not the church.
Pastors make money from them and this translates to personal income.

[b]P[/b]ersonal [b]I[/b]ncome [b]T[/b]ax [b]A[/b]ct 104 of 1993 as amended makes it mandatory for anyone resident in Lagos to pay tax on their chargeable income to LASG (Whether active income or passive income) irrespective of their religious inclination or status. Irrespective of what the messiah says. It is compulsory and LIRS has been empowered to do so! http://lirs.net/index.php?pid=legal

LIRS has competent professionals (qualified lawyers, chatered accountants, chattered tax practitioners e.t.c) to handle whatever these bodies bring up. Old Lagos has passed away, Lagos State Interbnal Revenue Service has become new. Just wait and see how things unfold.

bawomolo:

tax exempt status should be determined on a case by case and not through an umbrella law. Open your books if you want to be exempt. Groups like redeem would be forced to list their donors.

Ok, but don’t you think, if it WERE the case that this particular church had it’s books CLOSED to the tax authorities, your GOVERNOR would have mentioned that in his response? I mean Do you have any proof to support this assumption that the church you mentioned does not have it’s books opened to the Tax authorities?

bawomolo:

your assumption is wrong. go read my posts in the religious section. I do not oppose donations to religious groups. Are you making this assumptions because am atheist?

I don’t go to the religious section because I mostly belief we have the extreme ones in there and the numbskulls, who themselves do not ascribe to any religion but believe they are the authority on what the religious should believe and what they should do. Both groups I consider the same and since they litter the place, I prefer to stay away from there.
So no, I am going by what you have said on here so far, and believe you me, with you fingering a particular church in this, even when the main article did not list the same. Unless you are going to tell me that PFN is Redeemed. I am betting there is a high chance I am not far from the truth here. Lol

bawomolo:

yes you can call me a supporter of big government. There should be regulation on the tax exempt status of charity or NGO. show proof of financial propriety if you claim to be non-profit.

Nigerian tax laws work fine? we would just agree to disagree on this one

There is regulation. I told you already. I have myself owned a non-profit in the past in Nigeria, but now I have one in the US. The laws are quite similar. I told you that. The stipulations are seriously similar. In fact, I have to document next to every penny I make and ensure that even when I have to sell teeshirts to raise money for projects, I ensure that the money made is reported and the money goes to operating my non-profit BUSINESS.
I remember in the beginning, I got serious tax breaks as an individual when I paid for most of my business expenses out of pocket (my personal wages from my other business).
So, please spare me the GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO REGULATE THEM MORE when it is currently the case that they are regulated in much the same way other non-profit BUSINESSES are, in the same country.

I mean Do you have any proof to support this assumption that the church you mentioned does not have it’s books opened to the Tax authorities?

I do not but i have doubts on their transparency.

and believe you me, with you fingering a particular church in this, even when the main article did not list the same.

umm i can't give examples anymore.

So, please spare me the GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO REGULATE THEM MORE when it is currently the case that they are regulated in much the same way other non-profit BUSINESSES are, in the same country

huh this is getting personal. you know we can do this another time.

bawomolo:

the argument against Nigerian churches isn't the money flowing out but how the money flowing out is used.

You seem to be glossing over this point.

Roflmao!!!

In one post, you tell me I am wrong and it is NOT about the churches for you, but then you now tell me it is exactly what I have been thinking it has been about all this while . . . your issues with what the church chooses to spend it’s money on. Are you for real Roflmao!!!

Dude  . . .  wake up! This thread started with a post on governor supposedly wanting churches to now pay taxes on merchandise sold to raise money for their operation.  We then find out that the governor never had such an intention and he even informs us that that the current tax laws seem to be sufficient. And they are federal laws which means all churches in Nigeria, mosques, orphanages, all NGO’s , are required to keep to the rules, now getting government to IMPLEMENT the old laws, remains the main issue.

Now you want to make it about what the churches choose to spend their money on? DO you have access to their  business papers to determine that what they spend their money on is not what they are supposed to?


I prefer to stick to the issue connected to this threqd rqther thqn turn this into qnother stupid threqd: I qlreqdy told the one guy not to go dozn thjqt router; qnd I sqy you should pleqse not do the sqne;

keyboqrd qcting up1

In one post, you tell me I am wrong and it is NOT about the churches for you, but then you now tell me it is exactly what I have been thinking it has been about all this while . . . your issues with what the church chooses to spend it’s money on. Are you for real Roflmao!!!

i made my posts based on the general perception of pentecoastal churches.  Why don't you ask for my personal opinion directly before going on this roflmao tangent?

you win. You are something else.

General perception of pentecostal churches? Is that like saying that all muslims are terrorists and basing this on the "general perception" of a few fear mongers? lol !!!!

Dude. . . . I asked you to explain yourself. You did and I drew my conclusion from your response.

I am sure at this point, I have sufficiently explained myself. Non-profit BUSINESSES conduct BUSINESS like every other BUSINESS out there, only that they are allowed tax exemption by government as long as they stick to the regulations that govern their business. I even posted information on how the IRS deals with non-profits here in the US to give you a picture of what happens and why even non-profits like the salvation army, Red-cross, amnesty international, churches, mosques need to conduct business (buy and sell) to raise money with which to cover operations costs.

Then I went ahead and posted the article where we have the government stating there is no such move to change the laws, and no where did he complain about what the businesses do with the money being the problem.

I suspect most of the pastors are corrupt but I have no proof myself, so I can not say for sure that they are, and I cannot go around blabbering that they are, neither can I condemn all pastors because I believe many of them are crooks. So, I would rather stick to the topic than make it about what I don't know for sure. That is just me. And yes, like I told the other guy, no need to take this where it should not go at all.

biina:

Why are you trying to make this into a Christianity issue? will it not also affect the muslims?
Do not confuse Christianity with religion. Not everyone that calls himself a pastor is truly doing the work of God.
While there are those genuinely working for God, most work for their own selfish ends, and see it as a way out of unemployment. Otherwise, how do you explain the fact that despite there being a church on almsot every street, we are still a nation wallowing in sin, with corruption pervading every area of our society.
Should we now say that any criminal that calls himself a pastor can no longer be scrutinized?
All religious institutions, like any other above board establishment, should provide details of their account to the government, and should be taxed when necessitated by the law.
Christianity should not encourage secrecy, that should be left to the cultist.

my tots exactly

bawomolo:


huh this is getting personal. you know we can do this another time.

uumm. . . . how in the world is telling that PERSONAL? You are the one making it about your SUSPICIONS of the CHURCHES, or in this case, the particular church you named here.

If you SUSPECT a group is missusing it's status, do you just CHANGE THE LAW ?

Please Pastor Eunuch, stop wailing and gnashing your teeth, and just pay those Lagos State taxes already !Dang, it is not like you don't have the cash.    Cough it up in the name of Jeeeeeesus !   

If you need assistance relocating out of Lagos State, the bulldozers are warming up their engines to help you out.

I am in support of taxing the money making organisation called church in Nigeria.

Millions on Naira flow into the church on a daily basis without any charitable project to the environment except blaring loudspeakers into the ears of the citizens.

No wonder they have excess money to buy Jets nowadays

dayokanu:

I am in support of taxing the money making organisation called church in Nigeria.

Millions on Naira flow into the church on a daily basis without any charitable project to the environment except blaring loudspeakers into the ears of the citizens.
No wonder they have excess money to buy Jets nowadays

Ha ha ha.    Are you saying that you do not appreciate the sound of God's tax collectors screaming in your ears ?    Those are no ordinary loudspeakers, dude, them are the Voice of God, so enjoy that 300 decibel anointing, and stop complaining

they should just pay d tax

well, if the state gov. has decidedb to tax churches/ mosque, no problem. this is not new as jesus and its disciples are taxed. how ever, what i am concern with are this
1) all babalawos, eyos, eguns, ifas yemojas e.t.c must also be taxed. what is good for one is also good for all.
2) the the state gov should go ahead to aduict the account of these religious organisations. to ensure transparency, the government should know the numerical/financial strength of these churches since they differs in these values.
thus the govt should note the income from each members and calculate the percentage payable to the church i.e 10% for christain as tax e.t.c
the government should also know the amount paid by each member as offerings and calculate their own proceeds from such. chickens, palm oils e.t.c given to babalawos are inclusive.
3) any members of the church/e.t.c that does not re-emmits its tithes, offerings e.t.c should be sued since this is the only way the church/e.t.c can get money govt to give to the govt.

@jakumo
Please restrict your antics to the religious section, as it is often in bad taste and will only serve to derail the thread.

When shall we stop pursuing shadows in this country while ignoring important things.

CHURCHES PAYING TAX, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO IN BETTERING THE LIVES OF THE POOR MASSES?
CHURCHES PAYING TAX, IS THAT OUR PROBLEM IN NIGERIA? BULLSHIT.

Nigerian leaders are very good in embarking on inconsequential projects while ignoring the nitty-gritties that constitutes the Nigerian problem.

gentlegg:

When shall we stop pursuing shadows in this country while ignoring important things.

CHURCHES PAYING TAX, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO IN BETTERING THE LIVES OF THE POOR MASSES?
CHURCHES PAYING TAX, IS THAT OUR PROBLEM IN NIGERIA? BULLSHIT.

Nigerian leaders are very good in embarking on inconsequential projects while ignoring the nitty-gritties that constitutes the Nigerian problem.

Tax evasion takes away from the income of the government and limits the government's ability to provide for the masses.
The issue was raised by the Lagos state government. I doubt anyone would question that, so far, the Fashola led regime is doing quite well in trying to fix the problems of Lagos.
One of Nigeria's problem is some not being able to see beyond the bridge of their nose.

biina:

@jakumo
Please restrict your antics to the religious section, as it is often in bad taste and will only serve to derail the thread.

I do apologize for the poor quality of the picture, Bina.     It was taken during one of my nocturnal hunting trips, shortly before I fled, lest the same thing happen to me.   I will strive to be braver next time.

some people already have permanent seats in hell _{watch your comments}

mayrho:

some people already have permanent seats in hell

Did you make that booking for a party of two, or more ?