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Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court - Politics (5) - Nairaland

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Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by spikedcylinder: 2:15pm On Jun 08, 2009
Those people who say Christianity is not a religion are truly truly confused. undecided
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Johnnny(m): 2:20pm On Jun 08, 2009
djcrucifix:

why dem no wan pay tax? we pay tithes, offerings and other things.

 i don't think it's a bad idea for religious houses to pay tax cos it's going to benefit a lot of people. besides isn't that wat christianity is about? helping people?. even bros J told is to pay our tithes sef. so they should stop being stingy and pay the goddamn thing!.

  besides how much are they charging them sef? compared to wat we donate to the work of the lord daily, weekly, monthly and annually.



Gbam!!!   True talk.


There are no exemptions in the payment of tithes in the church, so there should be no exemptions in the payment of tax, especially since it is used to development.

Besides, if a religious organisation is on fire and the fire service is used in putting off the fire, is that not cheating?


Moreover, why cant religious institutions emulate their forebearers, for example Jesus Christ did pay tax while giving instruction that you give what belong to Ceazar to Ceazar. In the same vein "GIVE WHAT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S TO THE GOVERNMENT".

Period.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Kobojunkie: 2:45pm On Jun 08, 2009
lekside44:

well, if the state gov. has decidedb to tax churches/ mosque, no problem. this is not new as jesus and its disciples are taxed. how ever, what i am concern with are this
1) all babalawos, eyos, eguns, ifas yemojas e.t.c must also be taxed. what is good for one is also good for all.

I agree with the above. I don’t believe any one group should be singled out for stricter restrictions just because of some SUSPICIONS. The non-profits are registered as BUSINESSES in the states they currently function in and so are subject to the regulations and restrictions that exist in that area. If, the government SUSPECTS that a certain group is not paying its taxes ACCORDINGLY, all it has to do is go after the entity and ensure that it pays or risks having its license revoked.

Now I have to add that there is really no need to change the law here. Changing the law because of SUSPICIONS that some of us harbor of some “CHURCHES” not being open is simply PUNISHING the lot for the few, which makes absolutely NO SENSE at all.

Government also has NO RIGHT by Law to limit the growth of any one business or organization that is “PRIVATELY” owned.



lekside44:

2) the the state gov should go ahead to aduict the account of these religious organisations. to ensure transparency, the government should know the numerical/financial strength of these churches since they differs in these values.

I am of the thought that this particular government has an idea of what is contained in the accounts of many of these organizations. I mean from the much of I have read on the LIRS, it seems they do have information on how much many of these non-profits bring in, pay in taxes and all. I mean if it were not the case, we would have read by now stories in the news that the churches have REFUSED to open their books to LIRS. I have yet to read of that though. And since the government has on so many occasions called for taxes, I am lead to believe the books being open is not one of the problems out there.

Now, for the books to be open to members of these churches as well, that is a whole ‘nother issue, for another thread. I do know that one particular church does its best  to make that information available to members who request it and give reason for the need.

lekside44:

thus the govt should note the income from each members and calculate the percentage payable to the church i.e 10% for christain as tax e.t.c

What in the world do you mean by the above? Are you saying that government should now mandate that members not donate more than 10% of their income to CHURCHES?

lekside44:

the government should also know the amount paid by each member as offerings and calculate their own proceeds from such. chickens, palm oils e.t.c given to babalawos are inclusive.



3) any members of the church/e.t.c that does not re-emmits its tithes, offerings e.t.c should be sued since this is the only way the church/e.t.c can get money govt to give to the govt.
What on earth art thou spewing here??  roflmao!!! Governmnet to now mandate tithing and offering giving?? Wonders shall never end!!!
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by maxtop(m): 3:26pm On Jun 08, 2009
No hurry they will pay, grin
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by djcrucifix(m): 3:34pm On Jun 08, 2009
why dem no wan pay tax? we pay tithes, offerings and other things.

 i don't think it's a bad idea for religious houses to pay tax cos it's going to benefit a lot of people. besides isn't that wat christianity is about? helping people?. even bros J told us to pay our tithes sef. so they should stop being stingy and pay the goddamn thing!.

  besides how much are they charging them sef? compared to wat we donate to the work of the lord daily, weekly, monthly and annually.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Johnnny(m): 3:43pm On Jun 08, 2009
@ djcrucifixer

Do u need to repeat urself all over again? undecided undecided undecided

We all got ur point the first time, Ok? grin grin grin
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by djcrucifix(m): 3:49pm On Jun 08, 2009
@ djcrucifixer

Do u need to repeat urself all over again? Undecided Undecided Undecided

We all got ur point the first time, Ok? Grin Grin Grin


oga mi , no vex, na so d tin dey pain me na, lol
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Fhemmmy: 4:16pm On Jun 08, 2009
I think any money as an income, either from sales of books of CD or even gifts should be taxed.
SO fashola is on the right track.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Johnnny(m): 4:16pm On Jun 08, 2009
@ djcrucifix

It's ok jare, my guy

dey will pay!

How dem go dey chop, chop chop and not put anytin back into the society.

Dey Use the same roads we use
Dey Send their children to the same school we send ours
Dey buy from the same market stalls we buy from
Dey enjoy the same benefit we all benefit

If they pay for PHCN, Water, Security etc just as we all do in Lagos. why should dey be exempted from taxes. Let them pay

dey are supposed to lay good examples for we their members to follow.

Same applies to my Dad!  Sorry I forgot to tell you my father is a Minister of God in a pentecostal Church.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Kobojunkie: 4:24pm On Jun 08, 2009
Johnnny:

@ djcrucifix

It's ok jare, my guy

dey will pay!

How dem go dey chop, chop chop and not put anytin back into the society.

Dey Use the same roads we use
Dey Send their children to the same school we send ours
Dey buy from the same market stalls we buy from
Dey enjoy the same benefit we all benefit

If they pay for PHCN, Water, Security etc just as we all do in Lagos. why should dey be exempted from taxes. Let them pay

dey are supposed to lay good examples for we their members to follow.

Same applies to my Dad! Sorry I forgot to tell you my father is a Minister of God in a pentecostal Church.

Does your father currently pay taxes? If yes,

1) Does he pay taxes on his income as a Minister?

2) Does he pay taxes on offerings and tithes recieved in the church AS WELL?

3) Does he pay taxes on money he makes selling books, offering services to raise money for running of the church?
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Jakumo(m): 4:37pm On Jun 08, 2009
The panel of experts we convene here in Nairaland can shout all night and type enough agitated verbiage to perplex the Nobel Prize Committee, but in the end,  the miracle churches of Nigeria will LOSE their court battle to evade taxes in Lagos State, and will then be forced to open their books and pay through the nose, after way too long of getting away scot free from their most basic social responsibility - paying income tax.  The eagle has definitely landed for them now.

Hopefully, governors in Nigeria's other states will follow the lead of Lagos State by also asking churches to pay taxes in direct proportion  to their income, regardless of where that loot comes from.  At so it will come to pass in the name of JEEEEEESUS !
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Johnnny(m): 4:39pm On Jun 08, 2009
@ kobojunkie

My dad has not been paying taxes jus like the rest of dem hiding under the umbrella of the church not being a profit making organisation.

But I think he shud pay

I am still trying to make him see reasons why he shud pay.

There was these situation years back, when he had to do something in the Local Government Council and was asked to present his 3years tax clearance, all his explanation of being a clergy did not yield any result because its a requirement for whatever he wanted to do.  He had to call on my uncle (his brother) who came to present his.

I think he makes you as a minister of God, responsible and honest just like what u preached.

Set the example.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Kobojunkie: 4:54pm On Jun 08, 2009
Johnnny:

@ kobojunkie

My dad has not been paying taxes jus like the rest of dem hiding under the umbrella of the church not being a profit making organisation.

But I think he shud pay

I am still trying to make him see reasons why he shud pay.

There was these situation years back, when he had to do something in the Local Government Council and was asked to present his 3years tax clearance, all his explanation of being a clergy did not yield any result because its a requirement for whatever he wanted to do.  He had to call on my uncle (his brother) who came to present his.

I think he makes you as a minister of God, responsible and honest just like what u preached.

Set the example.

Do you know what taxes your dad ought to pay though? Are you aware as a citizen what taxes you are supposed to pay and what taxes you are not to pay?

“Any Nigerian who earns salary must pay tax. Church workers who earn salaries are taxable. Pastors, church workers must pay tax. “No Nigerian is above the law. Anyone who qualifies to pay tax must pay. The bible gives us injunction to be law abiding. We are spiritually obliged to pay taxes,” he stated.

I happen to run a non-profit and I have tax exemption status for my businesses ( meaning on most all of my transactions, I pay no taxes, however, I still have tax papers to present when that is requested as I have to file my taxes even if I do not pay any taxes.  So, if your father is really a criminal( a tax evader) as you claim, are you yourself informed enough to educate him on the kind of taxes he may be required to pay or not pay and the papers he will need to file with the authorities regardless of his situation each year or as required? I ask this because I see people confusing their personal issues with churches and leaders, with taxes that businesses are required or not required to pay.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by MrCrackles(m): 4:56pm On Jun 08, 2009
I support taxes for pastors and imams and jazz men as well! grin
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Johnnny(m): 5:09pm On Jun 08, 2009
@kobojunkie

Kobojunkie:

Do you know what taxes your dad ought to pay though? Are you aware as a citizen what taxes you are supposed to pay and what taxes you are not to pay?


Thank you for chipping in that one. I agree with you, I think I shud consult the tax authorities to get info on what you just said.

Kobojunkie:

So, if your father is really a criminal( a tax evader) as you claim, are you yourself informed enough to educate him on the kind of taxes he may be required to pay or not pay and the papers he will need to file with the authorities regardless of his situation each year or as required? I ask this because I see people confusing their personal issues with churches and leaders, with taxes that businesses are required or not required to pay.

About my father being a criminal. Well, I will not take you on based on dat word. But after all said and done. My opinion on this issue is that pastors or Imams even Babalawos shud not wait to be compelled to pay their taxes to the government.

Thanks.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by spikedcylinder: 5:19pm On Jun 08, 2009
MrCrackles:

I support taxes for pastors and imams and jazz men as well! grin

Imagine if local babalawos start getting taxed. Sangba a fo o! cheesy
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Kobojunkie: 5:33pm On Jun 08, 2009
Johnnny:

@kobojunkie

Thank you for chipping in that one. I agree with you, I think I shud consult the tax authorities to get info on what you just said.

About my father being a criminal. Well, I will not take you on based on dat word. But after all said and done. My opinion on this issue is that pastors or Imams even Babalawos shud not wait to be compelled to pay their taxes to the government.

Thanks.

Exactly!!!  

In my opinion, majority of the responses point to Education being the problem and nothing more.  Most of these arguments have been more sentimental than rational or based on what is.

The laws exist, and there is nothing wrong with them. Implementation on the part of the government would ensure that ALL BUSINESS(non-profits and for profits) owners file their taxes, even if they do not pay taxes for the quarter, and make sure their tax documents are up to date. Taxes ought to be paid on PERSONAL INCOME/WAGES/SALARIES regardless of the source. etc. When some people choose to evade taxes, the law is not the problem. Enforcement is!

The Law is not meant to be used for personal vendetta against groups you do not agree with, or suspect of being dubious without solid proof of it. If the LIRS believes that money is being spent on non-organization related issues, it is up to the LIRS to fine such a company or organization according to the law, not come up with arbitrary rules in hopes of punishing some because they do not do things the way some person or persons expect them to be done instead. The law is GREATER than individuals and so it is not for individuals to decide what another can or can not do.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by bawomolo(m): 5:40pm On Jun 08, 2009
spikedcylinder:

Imagine if local babalawos start getting taxed. Sangba a fo o! cheesy

babalawo's have diplomatic immunity grin
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Fhemmmy: 5:42pm On Jun 08, 2009
bawomolo:

babalawo's have diplomatic immunity grin

I am so sure that the nation will go into disarray, but it is important that everyone shd pay income taxes on any form of income or gift.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Mowire: 5:42pm On Jun 08, 2009
Me think that the issue is being belabored.
If the govt wants to tax income from books written by Pastors and ministers why should that become a reason for the church to go to court? I may sound naive, but I thought govt taxes only the profit of a transaction/business and not the gross? If the answer is yes (which I know to be the case), then all the writter-Pastors/ministers need do is show the books on their publishing (or is it writing) ventures. If the writing is a non-profit venture the books will show it and there will be no need to go to court.

Same goes for tapes. If the tapes/cd/dvd are produced by individuals then taxing the profit should not be a reason to go to court by any Pastor. If, however, the church is the one producing them, then the leaders only need to point out to the authority (and convince it) how the venture becomes a "charity".

This whole thing is about the christians' conscience. A lot is wrong with "christian" practice (not christianity). Priorities seem to be misplaced.

Many ministers of the word are earning millions from their publications! Where is the example that is being laid for followers to follow?
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by biina: 5:44pm On Jun 08, 2009
@kobojunkie
You didn't have to refer to his dad as a criminal, when you could have used the phrase 'tax evader' all on its own.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Kobojunkie: 5:45pm On Jun 08, 2009
Babalawo's do pay taxes on personal income. My friend's father was and is still a babalawo/imam.  He has his tax document hanging in his store for easy reach.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Fhemmmy: 5:45pm On Jun 08, 2009
biina:

@kobojunkie
You didn't have to refer to his dad as a criminal, when you could have used the phrase 'tax evader' all on its own.

that is still a criminal
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Fhemmmy: 5:46pm On Jun 08, 2009
Kobojunkie:

Babalawo's do pay taxes on personal income. My friend's father was and is still a babalawo/imam.  He has his tax document hanging in his store for easy reach.

r u sure it is tax doc, and not another "oluwole's" product.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by biina: 6:24pm On Jun 08, 2009
Fhemmmy:

that is still a criminal
The question is not about the veracity, but of decorum. The fact that he added 'tax evader' after the word 'criminal' shows that the latter word was uncalled for and its inclusion could be seen as just being obnoxious. Leaving out the word 'criminal' wouldn't have changed the meaning of the sentence.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Fhemmmy: 6:27pm On Jun 08, 2009
biina:

The question is not about the veracity, but of decorum. The fact that he added 'tax evader' after the word 'criminal' shows that the latter word was uncalled for and its inclusion could be seen as just being obnoxious. Leaving out the word 'criminal' wouldn't have changed the meaning of the sentence.


OK, u make sense, but i am sure that the dude was just talking from how annoyed he was.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Kobojunkie: 8:23pm On Jun 08, 2009
Fhemmmy:

r u sure it is tax doc, and not another "oluwole's" product.

Definitely his tax documents. The man leaves all his documents pinned to the wall.

Sorry, I did not post that out of annoyance. I have no reason to be since I was only responding to what he said about his own father. Just felt to make sure he understood he was calling his father a criminal since when you break the law, you are considered a criminal in the eye of the law. Not sure why it is an issue if @Johnny himself understood all that.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Beaf: 2:59am On Jun 09, 2009
@Kobojunkie

Are you a pastor or imam? I'm asking because religion tends to blind quite a minority of people (fanatics and lunatics) so that their argument's can only be perceived as bankrupt and stupid,  Maybe even irrational and wacky.

This is the first line from the thread topic:
"The decision of the Lagos state government to tax sales from books, tapes, compact disc and other materials sold by churches in the state is leading to a crisis, as the Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN) rejected the idea and may head to court to challenge the decision."
- moneygurl
.

The Red Cross is a charity. So to remove any religious blinkers, consider the list below:

[list]
[li]If a member of staff in the Red Cross writes a book, sells it and makes a profit, should the writer be tax exempt because they are a Red Cross employee?
[/li]
[li]If a member of staff in the Red Cross creates a DVD and sells it, should they pocket all the cash because they are in the Red Cross?[/li]
[li]If DVD and book sales go to the pastor / imam (and fund their private jets) should the church / mosque not pay a tax since it is in effect funding the leaders lavish lifestyles[/li]
[/list]

The list goes on. But if you still don't get the point, I am wasting my time.

As to calling someone's dad a criminal; that is really low down dirty, utterly disrespectful and un-African. You have been extremly forceful in your references to "the law" to back up your arid argument's; yet you refer to someone who has not been convicted of any crime as "criminal".

Sorry Sir or ma (or hermaphrodite), you come across as both very rude and a bully.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by avsnet: 4:10pm On Jun 09, 2009
church shall, should, must, pay tax.

why will they not pay?

somebody should tell me their mutiplier effect on the society with all their daily collections.

let them tell me the number of schools they have built, the roads they have constructed, the clinics they have established and stocked, and all the others things their forebearers did.

at least we all know that the missionaries of old did visible, tangible things with our daily contributions, what are the missioners of today doing with the contributions, other than to buy JET to be able to preach salvation to lost souls, and to carry bodyguards.

well, to me, they must, should, shall pay tax.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by Oxone(m): 4:21pm On Jun 09, 2009
when Jesus commissioned Christians to impact the world for good as the light of the world, he meant that they should improve the lot of the suffering humanity spiritually, socially & economically. he also meant Christians should not exist in neighborhoods where hunger prevails & close their eyes to the hungry humans around them. now that rich Nigerian pastors are doing everything they can to enlist themselves in the class of private jet owners & wear suits that their prices reads like telephone numbers, i wish to remind them of the great responsibility on their shoulders as the custodians of God's money, so that they don't think it was given to them for their personal use.
how can we be surrounded by overwhelming poverty & misery with developed nation coming to render financial help while the sons of our land spend humongous amount on personal splendour especially men of God who are in a better position to appreciate the suffering of humanity
how can a man of God who has been told to "weep with those who weep" and to emulate christ in love and comapassion live in a country were millions weep daily for lack of food, accommodation, medical attention, etc and not support them when he can afford billions of naira for personal luxury?
our rich churches & their pastors should do the following with God's money
- create jobs fr their members by setting up industries
-establish large farms to increase food production & provide employment for their members
- set up housing estates where accommodation can be made available to their poor members at a reasonably cheaper rate, build hospitals where the poor can receive treatment at a rate subsidized by the church and set up scholarship schemes to afford poor student the opportunity to be educated

ABOVE ALL, THEY SHOULD PAY THEIR TITHES COS JESUS PAID HIS WITHOUT COMPLAINTS
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by mustafar1: 4:50pm On Jun 09, 2009
they should all pay taxes on what need to be taxed. SHIKENA! all this turenchi I too much.
Re: Tax: Lagos Pastors Go To Court by ifele(m): 8:44pm On Jun 09, 2009
The best way of escape from this new taxation of Church income should have been that the Church to set up food

banks,soup kitchens, free clinics to help the needy. Christ fought against hunger amongst the Jews when he was

alive.He provided healthcare by healing the poor, what is the Church doing today? The Church is amassing wealth

for selfish purposes. Will they escape the greedy and covetous eye? What about taxation of Mosque(Mosholashi)

income? Some Church leaders are practically selling salvation. But is it theirs to sell. This issue will create more

tension amongst Lagos Yoba Christians and Muslims since the proponent of the law is Yoba Muslim. Yoba Muslims

in Lagos have been dominating politics in the state for years. The Christians can claim that their funds are Gods

offerings and this is justifiable, so Lagos government cant touch the offerings. Can government tax God? The

Church should return to the Way and good examples of Christ and the First Apostles. Is it too late for the Church?

It is never too late to repent but there is always a breaking point for every elastic.

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