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Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor: "Eat Your Tithe And Die Quick" / Paying Your Tithe Is Biblical / Do This With Your Tithe Instead Of Giving It To Private Jet Owners (see Photos) (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Nobody: 6:42pm On Apr 17, 2016 |
edogho: God help this one in Jesus name. I wanted to answer you until i saw how you insulted pastors. Let's see how far you will go with this belief. May God open your eyes to the revelation of his word. |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 7:00pm On Apr 17, 2016 |
openmine: I'm talking about the parrallel. Welfarrare for ministers under the law came from tithes and offerings. And if you say the welfare should come from support . Is it still not in tithes and offerings ? Or where would the money come from ? Ur totally wrong sir....tithing was never a God's kingdom principle....principles are based on laid down laws....and i believe u have biblical scriptures to prove where dose laws were stated right? [/quotes] Of course Abrham was the father of faith . Who's faith we follow. You've answered the question. He tithed U said it existed before the law......and i ask in astonishment,are you sir implying that any thing that existed before the law was given was NOT nullified? tithe was different . God gave replacement for the others . If you said tithe was pre-law,why do u justify tithes collection I won't use the word collection ,the word givingis more appropriate . We give tithe . Nobody is a tithe collector .it belongs to God . using the supposed nullified laws of moses to buttress ur reasons for tithing i.e malachi 3:10,numbers 18:10? The whole bible is inspired of God. And relevant scriptures can be quoted based on the principle they represent . The law is not evil . It has great kingdom principles we only need to know what is applicable and what is not. The principles in the law are not really wrong in themselves as long as a man does not seek to be justified by them . Finally where in the new covenant did paul say that tithe was a God's kingdom principle or are u d one that constructed and inserted it there? Tithes ,offerings ,alms giving , honoring your father , prayer , worship , good works ,etc are all principles in Gods kingdom . Either old or new covenant they remain . It was more than just an order....it was contained in the old covenant....which has been nullified.. We are of abrahamic faith before the old covenant existed . .. ..we all know jesus is the high priest based on better promises and an oath from God.....the comparison of the priesthood of jesus and that of Melchizedek is based on the fact that "their priesthood abides continually".. Beautiful , and as long as there is a high priest there must be tithing . .but the priesthood of jesus christ is far better than that of other priests before now[b] including that of Melchizedek[/b] Not so. No priesthood is higher than Melchizedek . Christ is a high priest in his order . So how does the Melchizedek order or levitical order make you a levite sir? I'm not a Levite. I'm a Nairaland poster like you . And a christian |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Nobody: 7:39pm On Apr 17, 2016 |
openmine:Sir, Just watch the fraudulent pastor who staged a HIV healing and was exposed some time ago to defend the indefensible. You have asked concrete questions based on scripture. Watch him tune his reply in line with what he thinks or feels, not what the bible says. People like him are the reason why I do not want to be attached to any church because these so called men of themselves care only about one thing:themselves. Hence they will distort the word of God for their own benefit, including payment of tithe. It is clear that as an New Testament convert, you are not bound by the so called tenets of the law yet they will ask you to pay tithe and add threats on top. 2 Likes |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 11:41pm On Apr 17, 2016 |
Joagbaje: Sir its now obvious that you don't seem to have any verse to backup ur "deceptive" claims (please pardon my use of that description cos am astonished by wat you just put up)...hence ur defense holds no strength... Now you said the tithe you practice is pre-law....and you agreed that the law of moses was "nullified".....in other words,tithe under the law of moses has been nullified.....why do u still seek to be paid with the tithe that was part of a nullified law rather than the pre-law tithe which you claim to practice....? Does that make spiritual sense to you? hence am only seeing support for those who teach the gospel....i don't see tithes and offerings like u claim because these are terms from the law of moses,which both of us have agreed has been nullified? right? Joagbaje: Sir why did u omit the burnt from the offering....u sud have included both....so in other words,since burnt offerings were pre-law like you insinuated for tithes,does that mean burnt offerings are permitted or better still do you carry out burnt offerings to God since according to you,its a pre-law and a spiritual principle? Joagbaje:In other words we are to do what abraham did since he was the father of faith....we sud lie right? commit adultery like Abraham did to his maid...? the practice of abraham's faith was based on his belief in God.....Which God counted as righteousness on Abraham's behalf and admonished all believers to emulate....this faith was based on his conviction in God....that's all....don't add what is not there..... for the benefit of those reading,abraham went to rescue his cousin lot from the hands of kings....he came back victorious with his cousin,and spoils of war and king Melchizedek offered him food and wine...in appreciation,Abraham gave him a tenth of the war spoils and gave the rest of the spoils to the king of sodom....remember Abraham didn't offer [b]his belongings or his income as tithers or tithe collectors wud want people to believe.... [/b] I have a question for you sir....was Abraham obligated or instructed by God to offer a tenth of the war spoils to king Melchizedek? Again i ask u sir....do u carry out burnt offerings or do u carry out circumcision ...cos both are pre-laws just like ur pre-law tithes ...? Joagbaje:Ohh really? So based on ur OWN scriptures,God replaced the others but not tithes ....Going by ur own thesis,God somehow erroneously left out tithes but gave replacements to the others? Pls Sir Joagbaje,wud u be kind enuff to get me scriptures that buttress ur wild and outrageous claims? Until you are able to provide scriptures to that effect,i consider ur claims highly deceptive and manipulative...... Joagbaje: According to your pastor and mentor,Pastor chris,(hope am not mistaken) in one of his "question and answer series" said..... "tithe is not giving,tithe is a requirement ...you don't give tithes,you pay tithes"....... Going by his admission,tithe is tithe and giving is giving.....you can not give what is required... I give based on 2 Corinthians 8 and 2 Corinthians 9:7.....which is paul encouraged the Corinthians to practice,calling it the "gift of giving"(2 Corinthians 8:1-12) This is wat you sud be teaching ur listeners or in the assembly....about the "gift of giving" and giving as "you have decided in ur heart"(2 Corinthians 9:7) Not a failed entity called tithes that only drags 'fresh' believers away from God..... Joagbaje: Tell me what i haven't heard from you oga Joagbaje.....So now you have now reversed ur earlier stance about the law of moses...i tot you said tithe was pre-law and any other tithe has been nullified along with the laws of moses.... You have suddenly brought it back to life after realizing that ur acclaimed pre-law tithe had no base or foundation to stand on....hence,you simply had to UN-nullify the laws of moses to use as ur base to tithe calling it an eternal principle ....Incredible!!! Joagbaje:Sir what did u just say? both old and new covenants remain? chisos.... Okay.....please nah i need scriptures from you to back dese preposterous claims....so according to you,the old covenant that has been nullified and set aside still remains? May God have mercy on you sir for manipulating his very words just for u to justify tithes ...haaaaaaaaaaaa Joagbaje:Abraham's faith as sud be practiced by believers is not hinged on his meeting and sharing of the war spoils with king Melchizedek and the king of sodom .... its was based on Abraham's unalloyed conviction of God even when God had not yet fulfilled what was promised to him...he still stood firm and staggered not....thats the kind of faith God requires from believers....it wasnt based on his lifestyle or his acts which u are forcefully holding unto just defend tithes.... Joagbaje:Wrong.....once again...smh For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices ; thus it is necessary for this priest(Jesus) also to have something to offer. Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law. They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.” But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. Hebrews 8:3-6 Christ priesthood was not setup to receive or offer gifts cos it was based on better promises and a mediating bridge between God and man...not to collect tithes according to Oga Joagbaje scriptures....chai Joagbaje:I dont need to argue with you about which is higher....i will allow scriptures to lecture u....cos it was based on an oath that the jesus christ was made a high priest And it was not without an oath. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath , You can see from the highlighted the supremacy of the priesthood of jesus christ over other priests including that of Melchizedek....Unless you want to tell me King Melchizedek offered himself as a sacrifice to deliver man from sin or that he has been exalted above the heavens.... If these scriptures does not open ur eyes about which priesthood is higher,nothing else will..... Joagbaje:Then stop equating or referring to yourself as a levite (parallel or trapezium ) 1 Like |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 11:47pm On Apr 17, 2016 |
Eastbay:My brother,Personally am in awe about what they insinuate in the bible....i start wondering if they are using a bible different from mine....i tot i cud reason with him but its obvious he has to defend tithes with all his life since he benefits from it....unfortunately for him,am not ready to allow him continue to manipulate the scriptures and keep offering atheists and newly converts a reason to mock God because of tithes...its really unfortunate.. 1 Like |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by EMILO2STAY(m): 1:01pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
Q |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by EMILO2STAY(m): 1:02pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
Joagbaje:it is your pretence that has got me mad, there is no need to be gentle in this matter because you pastors that are supposed to tend the flock are fleecing them instead. When jesus got into the temple and saw what they had turned his fathers house into a business center was he gentle on them?!! Why have you decided to lie to people so that you can steal their money. You know deep within you that you are a false pastor and to your kind, the bible said their destruction draweth near. The issue of tithe has been exposed and destroyed in this forum but you don't seem to give up because you benefit from it hence you don't want people to know the truth. My point is simple there is no Biblical support for the giving of ones 10% monthly income to the church created by men today there is no biblical support for the threat of a devourer, poverty, sickness for tithe defaulters. I have read all your twisted scriptures you put up in defence of your theivery which is the reason for my first comment if you want people to tithe why don't you teach them how it is done according to the scriptures. Don't make yourself a son perdition joagbaje you need repentance. And you also need to stop forming gentle man for me because a fraudster commands no respect. 3 Likes |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 3:00pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
EMILO2STAY: You don't need to get into a sin because you're mad at my belief. Firstly I have right to what I believe as much as you do. Why I'm I not getti MAD. The fruit of the spirit according to scripture should have hold on you. Secondly , I will appreciate you address me as a poster and not a pastor. Whatever I am outside Nairaland should not be an issue in a discussion. So that we can have proper focus in a biblical discussion. I see all these personal attacks as mere manipulations. The bible is enough to speak . Thirdly being a pastor is a hinorable responsibility. As much as many of you here have tried to Rubish that call. A pastor is not a tithe collector . A pastor is rather a tithe giver . Most pastors have their jobs and businesses . They are not in ministry for any gain. Rather the give more than the congregations most times . One of our pastors on CEC was the highest paid black man in chevron in the whole of Africa of west Africa . He wasn't taking any support for pastoring . He gives in millions to Gods work. Until recently he had to go into full time pastoring because of his increased responsibilities . So get your perspective right . If I'm talking about Tithing . It's based on conviction and that opinion should be respected . Without all these manipulations . Let's talk scriptures . If you don't agree with my view . Don't hurl . When I see people coming with personal attack . I stop responding to such person. They are not worth my time . |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 3:02pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
... I will respond to other post later |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by edogho(m): 7:07pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
sdkalu: Ramen. I pray Lord RA opens your eyes to see that you've been robbed. AMEN RA!!! |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 7:25pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
Joagbaje:Waiting....... |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by EMILO2STAY(m): 8:27pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
Joagbaje: |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by EMILO2STAY(m): 8:28pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
Joagbaje:. Ohh!! So now pastors are tithe givers instead of collectors, but you cite scriptures to support the collection of tithes by pastors such as 1 corinth 9:13-14 which is not even talking about tithe. You see I mavel when you say we should talk scriptures because you seem blind to it but good in twisting it, I have seen that you have a stone for a heart choosing to fleece your congregation instead of helping the less priviledged among them even yahoo boys are better than you because they scam the rich and not the poor but you are here forming gentle man for me when you are nothing but a heartless scammer who is destined for destruction. You are the same christ embassy pastor that was busted right on this forum and exposed for claiming to have healed a man with H.I.V AIDS. I am sorry for the people you pastor. Continue defending your business interest on nairaland when ever the topic appears... Cotinue in your stone hearted nature your end is near. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 9:15pm On Apr 18, 2016 |
openmine: You're not pardoned . It's still an insult . Control yourself. And excercise fruit. Just tell me you don't agree where you don't agree. why do u still seek to be paid with the tithe that was part of a nullified law rather than the pre-law tithe which you claim to practice....? Does that make spiritual sense to you? I never told you I recieve such . So stop getting personal with me. Focus on the topic with your bible . hence am only seeing support for those who teach the gospel....i don't see tithes and offerings like u claim because these are terms from the law of moses,which both of us have agreed has been nullified? right? Principles are forever. Either they exist in the law ,pre law or after the law. Sir why did u omit the burnt from the offering....u sud have included both....so in other words,since burnt offerings were pre-law like you insinuated for tithes,does that mean burnt offerings are permitted or better still do you carry out burnt offerings to God since according to you,its a pre-law and a spiritual principle? [quote] Most probably ,what does it matter. Tithing is a principle discovered by revelation . Just as any sacred discovery. If you do it , you gain the benefit ,if you don't you miss the benefit. Is prayer an obligation ? Is fasting an obligation ? Again i ask u sir....do u carry out burnt offerings or do u carry out circumcision ...cos both are pre-laws just like ur pre-law tithes ...? Principles are constant . They may be seen in the law or before the law. They a spiritual secrets revealed through revelations. So some principles in the law are still applicable Ohh really? Not everything in the law is wrong . Is the law evil ? There are principles not the law which are kingdom principles . They are not done away even though the law is done away because they are spiritual principle. Pls Sir Joagbaje,wud u be kind enuff to get me scriptures that buttress ur wild and outrageous claims? Have you wondered why paul quote from Old Testament? For example : honor thy father . Why would he quote law for people who are not under the law. Why ? Because it's a principle . To honor to care and to respect parents. Isaac had to make his son cook for him do that he could bless him. . Moses gave a law on honoring parents . The Jews nullified it Jesus came along and addressed it. And he rebuked them for hindering people from taking care of parents Mark 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. Why . It's a spiritual principle .thats why You find paul addressing same issue . Ephesians 6:2-3 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Long life doesn't come by prayer for it . There a principle . Honor your parents. Either old or New Testament . It's a kingdom principle According to your pastor and mentor,Pastor chris,(hope am not mistaken) in one of his "question and answer series" said..... "tithe is not giving,tithe is a requirement ...you don't give tithes,you pay tithes"....... You have a choice . Every principle carry grace and blessing when applied . If you pray you get the benefit , if you fast ,give alms ,tithe you get the benefit and the grace such Carry . If you don't do it you miss the benefit and grace it carries. I give based on 2 Corinthians 8 and 2 Corinthians 9:7.....which is paul encouraged the Corinthians to practice,calling it the "gift of giving"(2 Corinthians 8:1-12) It's your opinion but it can't be imposed on others . But you must know that there are different kinds of giving in Gods kingdom . Giving of Offering Giving of tithe, Giving of Alms Giving to parents (honor) Giving to your prophet or MOG Giving for projects in Gods house . interestingly ,The scripture you quoted in 2corinthians only dealt with just one of these giving but We must do all these giving . It's not a standard to cover every giving . It was a project before the church they were raising money for relief . It's just an aspect of giving . That's not offering ,that's not tithe . That's not to cover for giving to the pastor or alms to the poor etc .One giving does not nulify the other . One giving does not cover for the others
When we do things contained in the law , it's because they are kingdom principles not because the law say so.it could have been revealed in the law though . If I don't commit murder it's because it's a principle not because the law say so. Sir what did u just say? Firstly I forgive your insults . It's your level of understanding ... For the scriptures I quoted one earlier . And if you study carefully you will see paul in several occasion quoting from the law. Isn't it funny that a man who seem to condemn the deed of the law is quoting the law . And the funniest part was that he quoted it even to Gentiles who were never under the law. Abraham's faith as sud be practiced by believers is not hinged on his meeting and sharing of the war spoils with king Melchizedek and the king of sodom .... What of Jacob tithing? was it war spoil? Why tenth why not 5% only God knows the mystery behind it Christ priesthood was not setup to receive or offer gifts cos it was based on better promises and a mediating bridge between God and man...not to collect tithes according to Oga Joagbaje scriptures....chai I don't need to argue with you about which is higher....i will allow scriptures to lecture u....cos it was based on an oath that the jesus christ was made a high priest That will be highly appreciate if you allow scripture to speak for itself . If these scriptures does not open ur eyes about which priesthood is higher,nothing else will..... Don't be too full of your opinion. And make post with humility , you may just be wrong . So have that at the back of your mind .I'm a tither and I've done this from child . With strong conviction . Then stop equating or referring to yourself as a levite (parallel or trapezium ) Where did I equate myself to Levites . Did they have what I have in christ? |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 1:58am On Apr 19, 2016 |
Joagbaje: Well thats your problem sir.....if you call that an insult,wait till you find out the words i would have used to describe you... I can not ask if i agree or not because you keep twisting and manipulating scriptures just because you feel like it and you think i will be cute with you? ...you are totally mistaken...And as for control,replying you can only mean i have exercised some restraint....inasmuch as we are discussing bible knowledge,i expected you to prove your outrageous claims about tithes sighting scriptures and rightly dividing the word of God...its the least i expect from a minister of the gospel....unfortunately,you let me down with ur obvious twisting and manipulations and you expect me to be clap hands for you? smh Joagbaje: Personal? you call wat i just said personal? Okay lets see if i get u... You were the one who quoted 1 Corinthians 9: 13-14 to buttress ur collection of tithes, after informing you that dose "tithes" were part of a nullified law which u agreed, you den deceptively decided to go on a memory lane saying it was a pre-law tithe ......after explaining to you that you can not hold on to a pre-law tithe and still want to use the practices of a nullified law of moses,You now ask that am being personal with you? You see that's the issue i have with you and ur likes,Instead of responding to the question,you start moving on a merry go round acting like the victim..... i repeat.... why do u still seek to be paid with the tithe that was part of a nullified law rather than the pre-law tithe which you claim to practice....? Attempt the question with scriptures Sir! Joagbaje: Really? So you are saying that the lord God who said that the law was obsolete and nullified didn't know what he was saying or doing right? Since you are loosely using that word principles,please answer the following questions... Do you carry out the procedures of the burnt offering as prescribed in the Law? Have you been physically circumcised? Do you Offer only unblemished animals? Do you carry out the procedures of the guilt and sin offerings? Do you bring meal offerings as prescribed in the Law of Moses? Do you burn incense every day? Do you bring two additional lambs as burnt offerings on the Sabbath? Do you eat the Passover lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs on the night of the 14th of Nisan? I hope you know these are "principles" contained in the laws of Moses.....so do you observe dese principles? If your answers to this questions are negative,then your conviction or practice of tithes,in my opinion,is WRONG! Joagbaje: Most probably?...are you for real? Or are you having second thoughts already about ur pre-law tithe convictions? So now according to your own revelations,tithing is no longer a "law",or "pre-law" or "after law".....its now a principle discovered by revelation ? Well if that's ur own revelation about tithes,then carry on..that's ur own conviction...but don't use ur "revelations on tithes" to impose on "believers" sighting a nullified and obsolete law to use as ur base while using malachi 3:10 to make threats....Its totally deceptive!! Benefits? Wat do i need benefits from an obsolete law called tithe wen am already God's "pikin" through his son jesus and a "joint heir" of his abundance ...Oga Joagbaje,You are seriously and unfortunately belittling God ohhh.... Prayers and fasting are not only scriptural,its a way of the christian life....you can not communicate with the father without prayers...its part of our lifestyle as believers...or are you equating tithes with prayers and fasting?? Joagbaje: Sir Joagbaje....Principles are "laid down laws"....You cannot totally depend on the Rhema without the corresponding Logos ....Please rightly divide the word of God and stop using "revelations and principles" without logos...it wud sound as if you are subjecting ur revelations or principles on other believers....If that's ur revelation,good....use it for YOURSELF ....don't make it sound like ur own revelations sud be adhered to by all and sundry....So far,you have not used any scripture to prove ur "revelations" or "principles".....does it mean the "scriptures" are no longer used as your reference point? Joagbaje:I had to individually answer this cos am really astonished and perplexed.....Wat do you mean by " SOME principles in the law are still applicable" ? Did u just read up wat u said? Who are you and wat powers do u have to choose obsolete laws that God has already annulled and nullified? Are you saying that God made a blunder by calling dose laws "weak" and "useless"? Joagbaje: Sir,let me answer you using the very words of Hebrew 7,...... If the law was not evil ,why was it labelled obsolete ? If the law was not wrong ,why was it declared weak and useless according to Hebrews 7:18? If some of the laws were perfect like u r alluding,why did God replace it with another law? For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:18-19 You can not know better than God....he knew the reasons why he set aside the laws and that's because it was based on the fact that the law made nothing perfect !! Joagbaje: U sud know that wen Paul spoke to a particular audience in the scriptures,he had to use the laws of Moses as a guide.....in fact,he actually used the laws of Moses to preach Christ to his audience ....(Ref:Acts 28:23) Paul knew that particular audience were still neck-deep into the laws of Moses....so directly teaching them the gospel of Christ wud have made no sense to them due to their level of understanding.... Paul did everything to ensure that the gospel of Christ was taught whether by the laws of Moses or any other means necessary... Please Read.... For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to ALL, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become ALL things to all PEOPLE, that by ALL MEANS I might SAVE SOME. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings. (1 Corinthians 19-23) I hope u now understand why Paul kept using the laws of Moses...Its was for the sake of the gospel to be preached....So wen next you come across a scripture where he used the laws of Moses,know that it was for the sake of the gospel and not becos he believed in the law !!! Joagbaje: A principle that has no logos is man-made....a law that has no scripture backing is a scam and will never stand the test of time....Ur revelations and principles were concocted and formulated....If you think am wrong prove it with scriptures or i will classify ur principles as MAN-MADE !! Joagbaje: I do not remember saying am imposing a generous and genuine way of giving according to the scriptures to others... Please highlight it for me....if you are sure i said so.... Joagbaje: According to the scriptures,Paul teaches about the grace behind giving......generosity,which is giving without expecting anything in return, is not limited to your parents or the poor or ministers of the gospel or projects in the "body of christ".....Giving generously is unlimited and its based on LOVE FOR MANKIND and the heart of the giver ..... Notice that i omitted alms,tithe and offerings.....that's because such gestures were part of the nullified laws of moses....you cannot give what is required or what is imposed on you.....that's slavery and never based on love which replaced the laws of moses Romans 13:8-10 Genuine giving or generosity as practiced by the early believers were done for EVERYONE and out of LOVE (Ref: Acts 4: 32 - 37) Now tell me if the one practiced by the early believers did not make sense to you? But that's a choice for you....and you are free to do urs based on ur supposed revelations or principle that have no scripture inclinations !! Joagbaje: If your giving is not based on 2 Corinthians 9:7,then am afraid you don't really understand what it means to be generous because generosity covers ALL AND SUNDRY This is a christ-like kind of giving which is genuine,love-based and self-less! And this was the same kind of giving that the early believers practiced,same giving that the believers in Macedonia practiced,same giving that paul the apostle admonished the Corinthians to emulate from the Macedonians....same giving that was explicitly written in 2 corinthians 9:7. Please tell me,do you need a law for you to give to the poor? do you need a principle for you to give for a project in church? Do you need a law to offer support for the minister or pastor of the assembly you attend? If you,as a believer,who has the love of Christ in you,wud u need a principle or law to compel or subject you to give willingly as you have decided in your heart? Joagbaje: Sir you DO NOT do THE things as contained in the law of Moses because it stands nullified..In other words,you can not go back and pick from it because God has instructed you not to.....please stop complicating ur self and making a mockery of the bible!! Do you need a law for you NOT TO COMMIT MURDER ? Haven't you studied the scriptures 1 Corinthians 13 about LOVE? Don't you know that observing a SINGLE law implies that you are mocking the finished work ON the cross? If righteousness could be gained through the law,then Christ died for NOTHING!! (Galatians 2:21) Joagbaje: Well like i said earlier,that's ur problem not mine......and i cant say the same for ur own level of understanding..... If you studied Paul's teaching every where he went,you wud notice and observe that he used the laws of Moses to teach the gospel of Christ...(Ref:Acts 28:23) This was due to the level of understanding of the audience he met.... Paul knew that particular audience were still neck-deep into the laws of Moses....so directly teaching them the gospel of Christ wud have made no sense to them.... Paul did everything in his powers to ensure that the gospel of Christ was thought whether by the laws of Moses or any other means... For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to ALL, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become ALL things to all PEOPLE, that by ALL MEANS I might SAVE SOME. I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings. (1 Corinthians 19-23) Joagbaje:Ohh My lord.....Common Sir...you can do better than dis.... Jacob tithe? A swindler and manipulator who stole his brother's birth-right? So Jacob the cheater who tot he cud make a pact with God by offering a tenth of his belongings has now become your reference to tithe? Did you really study that scripture very well? Did the lord make a pact with him or did he do so on his own volition? Joagbaje: I offered you a scripture to that....Pls go back to my earlier post....unless you intentionally decided to overlook it.... Joagbaje: Am not full of my opinion sir and am not proud....am just astonished,perplexed and bewildered that you teach such a weak and twisted doctrine to a congregation of believers....If that's ur conviction,then back it up with scriptures so that dose believers can go search it in their bible and be convinced.... But telling them you received a revelation to tithe without the backing of the logos is clearly not from God but a well-concocted man-made doctrine! For the umpteenth time Sir,prove ur revelations and principles with corresponding scriptures from the bible!!! Joagbaje: Sir Joagbaje....don't make me see you as a dishonest person.....You referred yourself earlier as a levite sighting 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Tell me you have forgotten what you said and i will understand....but don't say u didn't refer to urself as a levite of our time !! |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 3:59am On Apr 19, 2016 |
Joagbaje: Do you need the law to make you honor your parents? If u brought up honoring parents as a yardstick to partake in the law of moses,why did you leave out the rest of the laws? Are they not as important as honoring ur parents? See Sir,If you have the love of Christ,you will be considerate and loving to others not just your own parents but to everyone you come across.... Just like i stated,Paul used the law of Moses wen he spoke to a particular audience due to their level of comprehension.... (Acts 28:23;1 Corinthians 9:19-23) Paul never supported the law or its practices....he Vehemently condemned it in Galatians, tried to strike a balance in Romans because the audience were staunch law followers, Like i said,Paul did dis in order to pass the message of the gospel....Thats why Peter at a time got so confused about Paul's methods cos according to him,it was "confusing at times"..... And who wud blame Peter...cos Paul wud teach the law of Christ to a different audience and still taught the law of Moses to a different audience entirely... Same law of Moses that he always condemned and disapproved in Galatians.... And according to 1 Corinthians 9:19-23,he devised a means where by he became a law-abider just to win over dose who were under the law,same thing with the weak, and those outside the law just for the sake of the gospel..... He knew he was not weak or under the law of Moses or outside the law of Moses ,neither was he in support of any of them.....but the only way to get to these set of audience was to behave and act like them just to win dem over to christ ..... So Oga don't be deceived....Paul knew what he was doing....unfortunately,You mistakenly or erroneously thought he was in support of the law... |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 6:27am On Apr 19, 2016 |
openmine: Stop addressing as such . I'm a tither not collector. after informing you that dose "tithes" were part of a nullified law which u agreed, Kindly read the entire thread. From the opening post . My foundation had been abrahamic faith . But if you ask me question under the law I will answer you . That doesn't mean I practice law. It's just a bible discussion. Secondly the law is not evil . There are content in the law that are based on spiritual principles . Paul said the law was good . It's wrong use that is not right . Romans 7:12 (TLB) But still, you see, the law itself was wholly right and good. why do u still seek to be paid with the tithe that was part of . . . Did I ever tell you I get paid by tithe? Stop these silly remarks . If you can't focus on the bible and topic I may stop responding to you. Really? So you are saying that the lord God who said that the law was obsolete and nullified didn't know what he was saying or doing right? Are you deliberately going round or pretending not to understand my point? Ok let me give a closer illustration. Nigeria had series of. constitutions. Clifford constitution,Macpherzon and Littleton constitution right ? Now we have new constitution . Under the former constitution murder was A crime ,stealing was a crime . But the new constitution made changes as regards rights ,slave trade but murder and stealing still remain a crime even though there's change of law because based on universal principle they will always be wrong. The fact that there a new constitution does not change the opinion against murder and secondly if we don't commit murder it's not because Macpherzon constitution said so it's because it's universally wrong . As much as we don't live by it . Doesn't make all its content wrong . So don't ask me about incense burning , wave offering or heave offering . I am not a law advocate .what christ has fulfilled is done away such as . Blood sacrifice etc Prayers and fasting are not only scriptural,its a way of the christian life....you can not communicate with the father without prayers...its part of our lifestyle as believers...or are you equating tithes with prayers and fasting?? Precisely these are all spiritual principles . Tithes ,offering , alms , honor for parents ,right living etc they all have their benefit . Principles cut across dispensations. They are constant . I ask you a question once . Do you give offering ? Sir,let me answer you using the very words of Hebrew 7,...... Where' did it say the law was evil? Kindly quote Romans 7:12-14 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. It's wrong use of the law that is wrong. As much as certain truths of Gods kingdom are revealed there . Seeking justification by the works of the law is what is condemned . The law can't make one perfect .. |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 7:02am On Apr 19, 2016 |
openmine: The law was a guide . Instructions in law are not slavery . What of the instructions paul gave . Will you say the instructions paul gave to give money was slavery? The instruction not to lie was slavery? The instruction not to defraud ,steal etc are slavery? Why didn't he leave every man to their conscience . And the love of God shed abroad ? I will appreciate your response. U sud know that wen Paul spoke to a particular audience in the scriptures,he had to use the laws of Moses as a guide.....in fact,he actually used the laws of Moses to preach Christ to his audience ....(Ref:Acts 28:23) Can I ask you a question? Are you aware that paul was a minister to the Gentiles? Are you aware that the Ephesians were not Jews? So don't say paul was dealing with those who are neck deep in the law. Look at this scripture again . Ephesians 6:2-3 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. Why on earth will an apostle of the grace of God be quoting the law to a people who were never under the law. Because there are principles of God kindgom revealed there. i hope u now understand why Paul kept using the laws of Moses...Its was for the sake of the gospel to be preached....So wen next you come across a scripture where he used the laws of Moses,know that it was for the sake of the gospel and not becos he believed in the law !!! You're explanation is very weak here pls Genuine giving or generosity as practiced by the early believers were done for EVERYONE and out of LOVE (Ref: Acts 4: 32 - 37) There's no new way of giving . People have always been giving by love for God. Exodus 25:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering. Paul was only quoting what was already revealed in the Old Testament . A principle . I just hope my point are getting clearer to you .even if you don't agree but understand my perspective first . Please tell me,do you need a law for you to give to the poor? Why is paul giving instruction to the churches? What happen to "christ in you"
These were Gentiles churches not even proselytes. The law is a guide of right and wrong . But remember that my conviction on tithing is not based on the law. I only got into law issue because you asked questions of the law. |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 10:34am On Apr 19, 2016 |
Joagbaje:What do i address you as? A tithe receiver just like the levite? Joagbaje:Sir go and check ur initial foundation.....it was initially 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 where u based as ur foundation for tithing.... you only ran to genesis after i had shown you that 1 Corinthians 9:13 was part of a nullified law, You used Genesis 14:20-21 to justify that you tithe was a supposed "pre-law", I asked you if Abraham was obligated to tithe from God to Melchizedek, I also asked you If u partake in burned sacrifices and and circumcision, You erroneously claimed with no scripture inclination that God replaced the rest of the pre-laws and left out tithes.. Still you ran again to Jacob and said it was ur foundation to tithe.. I still insisted on scriptures to buttress ur claims but you instead said you received a "personal revelation" about tithe which you use as a principle, Now you have reversed back to Abraham's sharing of war spoils as foundation... All i see from ur foundations on tithe is synonymous with running from "pillar to post"...... Even If i decide To use ur current foundation(which i have done) to probe its validity,you will still evade the questions and run to another supposed "foundation" If it was not evil like you said,why was it labelled weak and useless by God? Do you know better than God? If the law was good like you are alluding to,why are you not practicing them? Why are you using some and leaving out the rest of the laws? Is that your yardstick to justify that the law is good? Your father in heaven said "i have set aside the law of Moses 4 ur sake because it was weak,obsolete and useless", you are saying some laws are good.....? Please sir,where was it written in scripture that "SOME OF THE LAWS" are good while other are bad? I repeat,you don't know better than God.... Joagbaje: The same Paul said in Romans 10:4, "that Christ is the end of the law to those who believe"..... same paul the apostle said Ephesians 2:14-15 "For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace" Paul was speaking to an audience that had not fully under stood the gospel of Jesus based on grace! Hence he attempted interchanging both the law of Christ and the obviously nullified law of Moses just for the sake of the gospel ! But that does not in any way prove he was in support of the laws of Moses.... Joagbaje: Now who is the one getting emotional and personal now? Yes you did say so wen u first referred ur self as a levite of our time using 1 Corinthians 9:13-14..... I always knew u wud deny ur very own words.....even wen it was obvious that u said so.... i will keep asking you this question until i get an answer from you.... i repeat... Why do you seek to receive tithe from a nullified law of Moses? Failure to answer that question simply means you are neither sincere nor honest!! Joagbaje:That is based on a man-made constitution where changes are at times made based on selfishness and greed! God never made constant changes the same way the constitution was altered at will to satisfy the elites of the society... Remember the law was set aside and replaced by a better one due to its obsolete nature....Obsolete in other words implies that it can not be used any more...cos it has past its time! Can you keep mending a shoe or repairing an electronic equipment whose time has already expired? Do you still make use of an equipment or stuff you had 20 years ago? I highly doubt it.....the law of moses had an expiration date unlike the constitution in other for grace tru the finished work of the cross to be ushered and established! (Galatians 3:23-25) U can change a law in the constitution while others stand but in the case of the law of Moses,they were SET ASIDE,EXPIRED AND REPLACED! Using ur very illustration as reference,its like saying the constitution of a nation has been annulled and nullified or no longer in existence....Thats exactly wat God did to the law of Moses....Its usage was no longer needed hence it was no longer used! That the very reason why the law of moses was said to be obsolete....no longer usable,way past its expiry date,no longer in existence! God then went further to establish a brand new law where Christ is the high priest....calling it the law of Christ which was based on LOVE If you are insistent that you still use the law of Moses.... Then,the burning of incense still applies to you.... The wave offering or heave offering still applies to you...same as blood offering... If u say u r not an advocate of the law,then stop insisting that some of the laws are still in effect or base Ur tithe convictions on the law of Moses! If you are against the law,say so in totality....if you are a law advocate,say so and stand by it completely.... Don't speak from both sides of the mouth....or keep shifting the goal post wen its apparent that you have been cornered! james 2:10....if you keep the entire laws of Moses but stumble on one,you are as guilty of breaking all of it.... In other words,All the laws of Moses are important and none is higher or more relevant than the other.... Joagbaje:Ur principles are faulty because they are based on an "expired and obsolete" laws.... wat will i be doing with an obsolete law...? are you saying the law of Christ which is love does not lead you to honor you parents or give to the poor or support a project in ur assembly or ensure that you live right? Notice that i intentionally omitted tithes,offerings and alms cos they are expired and useless according to Hebrews 7:18....a better law where jesus is a mediating high priest takes care of the poor and support for the minister of the gospel.... As it regards ur question whether i give offerings, I don't because offering is an obsolete pattern of giving.... The new pattern is based on generosity....which covers all and sundry have u studied how the early Christians gave?? Joagbaje: Paul referred to the law of moses as a conflict to the law of grace and of the finished work on the cross....(Galatians 3:1-14) If the law was holy and good according to Romans 7:12-14,why was it replaced and ousted by a brand new law? Why did Paul vehemently condemn its practices in Galatians? Now why was he seeking to justify the same law he condemned before a roman audience? Was it becos of the romans level of understanding? Remember i sighted a scripture in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 where he had to convert to a jew and practise judaism just to teach the audience he met.... Such audience wud have been unable to comprehend the gospel of grace...hence he used and justified the laws of moses just so that he cud win souls for the sake of the gospel ...That does not in reality, imply that he was in support of the law of moses.... Its like a preacher who for the sake of the gospel decided to be a drug-dealer in a cartel just to win souls for christ! does that make him a drug dealer in reality? Absolutely not...his motive was to win souls for christ and he used whatever means necessary to achieve that goal!! I think you are really confusing and complicating ur stand....at one hand you said the law is good and holy and at the same time u said u r not a law advocate or that the law made nothing perfect.....why do you double-speak? If the law was not perfect,it simply means ALL the laws of moses were not perfect....hence it was set aside and nullified! Its either you are a law advocate or a grace advocate....you can not mix oil with water....you can not seek to blend the grace gospel and the law of grace...!! Its that simple!!! |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 1:40pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
openmine: Kindly quote where it says the law was useless thanks If the law was good like you are alluding At least I showed you the scripture where paul say so . Do you know better than paul ? I also asked you to show where it says the law is evil . I'm waiting for your response . to,why are you not practicing them? The aspect of the law fulfilled by christ can not be undone. But tithing has no fulfillment except that christ is now the one who recieve our tune in the order of Melchizedek The same Paul said in Romans 10:4, "that Christ is the end of the law to those who believe"..... I'm seeing some dishonesty here . Let me just take it as a Mistake for now. I already told you the only problem with the law is that it lacks the power of justification. Now you're quoting a scripture which says excactly that but you cut away that part . What are you really trying to achieve ? Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.same paul the apostle said Christ is the end of the law FOR RIGHTEOSNESS . But you tried to make the scripture say otherwise . See I don't waste my time with dishonest people.but let me still give you benefit of doubt . Ephesians 2:14-15 The message is very clear . Justification ,righteousness ( peace with God ) cannot come by the law . Paul was speaking to an audience that had not fully under stood the gospel of Jesus based on grace! Come on now how does this theory of yours explain this scripture . . Ephesians 6:2-3 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promisewink 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. What gospel will paul be preaching by using a condemned law? It doesn't add up try again. If we go by this theory of yours which appears to be double standard Then why are you getting mad at the quoting Malachi to support tithe ? Now who is the one getting emotional and personal now? Can you kindly quote where I refereed to myself as a Levite. Thanks and if you cannot . Kindly stop harassing me. james 2:10....if you keep the entire laws of Moses but stumble on one,you are as guilty of breaking all of it.... I still don't know why you go in this circles . I tried to make you understand my point. If I do what is contained in the law . I'm not not doing it because the law say so . I do it because it's a principle inGods kingdom . But the principles of God existed before the law came . So the coming and passing of the law doesn't change constant principles As it regards ur question whether i give offerings, Because the wanted to be justified by law ..I have gone over this with you over and overrrrr. |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 1:44pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Joagbaje: Yes the law was a guide to lead us to a superior law....the law of christ The law then WAS our guide,our school master,until chrst was revealed...Now that christ has been revealed and faith has been established,we are no longer under the dictates or supervisions of the law(Galatians 3:23-25)....and thats because of the law of christ which is grace based... A little illustration will be all u need to understand this transition.... Lets say that am travelling to Ekiti state from bayelsa state...the bus stops me at ondo state,and i get into another bus heading to Ekiti state... The bus that conveyed me from bayelsa to ondo state has completed its duty ....while i take a bus heading to ekiti from ondo state....which is my destination! The law of moses just like the bus from bayelsa fulfilled its duty by dropping me at ondo state...while the bus heading to ekiti is going to my final destination just like the law of christ had taken over from the law of moses to lead us..... Will i still need the bus that took me to ondo state? Absolutely not... Its has fullfilled its mission and duty...hence its services are no longer needed or wanted....same is applicable to the law of moses.... As it pertains to instructions based on the law,how do i claim to be a believer of the gospel of christ and received the gift of righteousness and yet claim to receive instructions from the law of moses.....? In other words am saying christ died for nothing..... You are under a new covenant presided by a high priest Jesus christ...hence you are to follow instructions based on the laws of christ and not the obsolete and ousted laws of moses which u disappointingly and tirelessly hold on to just to justify ur tithe beliefs.... Joagbaje: Paul didnt only teach the gentiles,he also taught the romans and jews..... His goal like i sighted earlier in previous posts was to win as many people as he possibly cud using the laws of moses.... I believe this was very explicit wen he admitted that he was a servant to all though he was a free man.... paul's teachings were not only limited to the gentiles.....like u earlier implied,he taught ALL men no matter their beliefs just for the sake of the gospel....if you studied the book of Acts very well,you wud have observed tha paul even went to countries where judaism was a norm...he even went as far as behaving like them....he even burnt insense and partook in burnt offering in order for him to use the very abolished laws of moses to preach about the gospel of christ.... He knew he was a believer of the gospel and not subjected to the laws of moses...yet he used the laws of moses(judaism) as means to reach out and convince them about the gospel of the cross.... We can liken paul to a female believer who temporarily converted to a prostitute just so that she cud convince dose indulging in such practices to stop by teaching them the gospel of christ It takes great insight and a level of grace to understand wat paul wanted to achieve..... While you thought he was in support of the law of moses,he was smartly trying to convince people to join the gospel train... From his letter to the ephesians,it was obvious he sighted that verse due to their level of understanding.... He knew they wud be confused and perplexed if he gave them the message of grace which was based on LOVE.. Do you with ur level of understanding of the gospel still need the law to instruct u about honoring ur parents? If thats the case Sir,then the message of grace has not been fully immersed in you...i say this with all due respect!!! Joagbaje:Wrong Sir....It was for the sake of the gospel to be preach to all and sundry...so dont be easily deceived by paul's weak stance on the law of moses.... For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to ALL, that I might win more of them. To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law. To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become ALL things to all PEOPLE, that by ALL MEANS I might SAVE SOME. I do it all for the SAKE OF THE GOSPEL that I may share with them in its blessings. (1 Corinthians 19-23) I think the scriptures are very clear as to what was Paul's intentions and goals....! If you cannot see it,then is obvious u have ulterior motives.... Joagbaje:I wasnt expecting a compliment or any thing different from an unrepentant tither.... When giving is forced or imposed on a person...it seizes to be giving.... there is no way you can give what is required by law.....its like saying you freely pay ur light bill or ur water bills know fully well that failure to pay will stop you from having access to water or light..... For each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give.... NOT RELUCTANTLY OR UNDER COMPULSION ... for God loves a GENEROUS GIVER Did Exodus 25:2 sight the highlighted conditions for GIVING in 2 corinthians 9:7? Have you seen or are you seeing why the laws of moses which you sighted were not perfect....and in other terms,weak and useless? You just used a verse to prove once again that the laws of moses were weak and useless hence God sort to annull and bring its stewardship to a crushing end.... Giving seizes to be giving wen it is done under compulsion or reluctantly......Thats why the tithe doctrine or revelations is heavy flawed with its weak and useless stance....for it made nothing perfect just like the rest of the laws of moses.... Joagbaje:Very simply....they were still baby christians.....wud you feed a new born child with akpu or garri? According to 2 peters 1:2; Grace and peace be mulltiplied to you in abundance through ur knowledge of God and of jesus our lord Yes christ dwells and has bestowed onto you the gift of righteousness.....will u know that gift in one day as a babe christian? The answer is an emphatic NO... The more knowledge you have about God tru his word,the more you are enlightened and aware of ur rights as a son of God... Paul taught a particular audience about the grace Gospel.. while for other audience like rome,he started by teaching them Judaism....in hope that they may know the gospel of grace later.....It was all about the sheer intelligence and zeal of paul who was determined to reach out to EVERY ONE BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOSPEL. Joagbaje: The law WAS ONCE a guide before faith came.... Now The Law is no longer a guide or school master or in charge of believers....Cos it has fulfilled its duty which was leading us to Christ... We no longer need the law of Moses as a guide....for you are no longer under the supervision of the law but under grace...(Ref:Galatians 3:23-25) You sud have been firm on ur grip on ur pre-law tithes but you kept gallivanting while using the law of Moses to justify ur pre-law tithes.... Now since you have maintained a little bit of consistency on ur pre-law tithe,I have questions to challenge ur pre-law tithe conviction... On wat covenant does your pre-law tithe base it foundation on? Since you claim ur tithe was based on Abraham's apparent gesture towards king Melchizedek.wat corresponding scripture on ur pre-law tithes (aside Genesis 14:18-21) can you use to substantiate ur tithe beliefs? If according to you,Abraham "tithed",was he under any "instruction" from God to offer king Melchizedek the spoils of war? Finally....lets say you tithe using ur supposed Abraham tithe as a guide...After offering the priest ur tenth,will you give ur king or president the remaining 90? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Candour(m): 3:50pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Joagbaje: @openmine, Compare the bold above with what joagbaje and his oga teach their flocks in their most important literature after the bible(for some of them, you could argue that ROR is more important than the bible) The Giving That Stands You Out – Thursday April 7, 2011 – Pastor Chris Joagbaje says you give tithe as voluntary but his most holy ROR by his daddy says actually you PAY tithe and its a MUST otherwise you're a robber. Jo can't change. Not until oyaks repents from the fraud of tithe demands. 2 Likes |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by annunaki2(m): 7:43pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Candour: Even if oyaks repents from the tithes scam, I doubt very much that joagbaje will repent from this very lucrative scam. 1 Like |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 8:57pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Joagbaje: With ALL pleasure..... For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness Hebrews 7:18 ESV So the previous command is annulled because it was weak and unprofitable Hebrews 7:18 (Holman christian standard bible) For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. Hebrews 7:18 King James version 18 The old rule is now ended because it was weak and worthless. Hebrews 7:18 ERV Do you want more translations? Please let me know.... Surprisingly,Its right there in your bible and i have quoted this scripture more than 10 times...on different posts.... Are you implying that you don't follow up my scripture quotes? Joagbaje:And i provided you with a corresponding rebuttal scripture to counter that.... And it was just to prove that Paul was intentionally observing the law of Moses to win souls in rome.... Acts 28:23 The Highlighted verse of Acts corresponds to an earlier scripture where Paul highlighted his intents for the sake of the gospel Hear him; 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 You sud know that just a scripture cannot stand on their own....You need a corresponding scripture to interpret the former... Now you asked a question if i knew better than Paul.....Well...At least you can see from the highlighted scriptures that he knew what he was doing...Unfortunately,You were carried away by his support for the law of moses without considering that he was doing so to persuade the Romans about the gospel of christ and not because he Supported an expired,weak and useless law...Paul knew better...do you?? Joagbaje: The fulfillment of the law by christ implies that you no longer need to be under the supervision of the law.... Really? Who told you tithe was no fulfilled? was tithing not part of the law of Moses? I have quoted scriptures to either convince or show you that Christ priesthood does not receive tithes or gifts or make sacrifices..... I have also shown u using scriptures on why the priesthood of Christ is far superior than that of Melchizedek.... But unfortunately you ignored them....using Melchizedek as ur standard... Tell me did Melchizedek offer himself as an atoning sacrifice for all men? Did Melchizedek die for ur sins? Was there a sworn oath on king Melchizedek priesthood like that of Christ? I know why you keep insisting on Melchizedek.....just to substantiate ur weak tithe claims?? Don't you worry...Many believers are now finding out the truth about the obvious deception behind tithe doctrine...And so many souls will be delivered by this apparent slavery perpetuated by respected ministers of the Gospel....The truth never hides!!! Joagbaje:Dishonesty? Please be specific and highlight where you don't comprehend.....So that i can make it clearer for you..... The law lacks justification because its no longer relevant....The finished work on the cross ensured that it stayed that way... Its duty or intents or relevance ended the day Christ was revealed..... Trying to UN-nullify an ousted law just so that you can justify ur tithe beliefs only shows that you are the dishonest one.... Joagbaje:The only dishonest and deceptive one is you.... Christ ended the law so that everyone who believes in him is made right with God. Romans 10:4 ERV Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for every one who believes Romans 10:4 NIV I don't know a clearer and better illustration that Romans 10:4... So where is the dishonesty coming from? If you want me to explain the scripture for you to comprehend...no wahala...just ask....and i will explain with corresponding scriptures....afterall,scriptures mast match scriptures....!!! Joagbaje:Well Your statements and beliefs from ur earlier posts betray wat u just put up....Or are you trying to say you don't understand wat it means to be justified..? Joagbaje: This is not my theory but based on the intelligence of Paul.... I even went as far as showing you scriptures and corresponding scriptures to buttress Paul's intents which was for the sake of the gospel... You obviously ignored those scriptures and now you call it my own theory ? Hilarious I have shown you with scriptures why Paul used the condemned laws... But you intentionally chose to ignore them sighting the honoring of ur parents scriptures... If you really want to learn or find out why Paul used a condemned law to teach the gospel, Then study Acts 28 and 1 Corinthians 9:19 - 23 And if possible humbly study the entire book of Acts....to understand what Paul did what he had to do! As for Malachi 3:10,Please don't go there cos you yourself said ur tithe is pre-law ...."abi u wan take am join threaten ur congregation?" Joagbaje: Ohh very easy....go back to your first post on this thread and start looking...you will find it out...but when you do please don't take it off ohhh I cant do that for you....its ur post not mine As per harassing you....I did not Ohh ...am telling you wat u explicitly displayed.... Joagbaje: You were obviously the one moving in circles non-stop all along and dats because you know you have been cornered.... Your obvious statements(previous and present) proves my point that your pre-law tithes has little or no bearing....without Malachi 3:8 - 10 U keep mentioning principles and kingdom principles...don't these so called principles have a scripture statement or is it part of ur imagination? Okay lets say you were preaching to an individual and he inquires about a scripture to substantiate ur pre-law tithe...what will be ur answer? You will start explaining why the kingdom principles cant be found in the scriptures or you will eventually run to Mr Malachi....? |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 9:01pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
annunaki2: 1 Like
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Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by openmine(m): 10:12pm On Apr 19, 2016 |
Candour: Oga Joagbaje and tithes are liken to bread and butter....they can never be separated... Oga candour how far nah...longest time.... |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Candour(m): 8:28am On Apr 20, 2016 |
openmine: My brother, yeah its been a while I'm doing great. I trust you're good too? Cheers |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Candour(m): 8:30am On Apr 20, 2016 |
annunaki2: May God help us then |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 2:25pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
Candour: If you want to talk to opaks talk to opaks if you want to talk to jo talk to jo. As long as you're willing to dwell on scripture no problem. But if you want to do agbero style of debate count me out. You can eat your tithe |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Joagbaje(m): 2:27pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
openmine: If I have time I may look at whatever you wrote if there's need worth responding to . |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by annunaki2(m): 3:57pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
Joagbaje: Finally uncle Joe concedes defeat 1 Like |
Re: Eat Your Tithe Before The Lord by Candour(m): 4:47pm On Apr 20, 2016 |
Joagbaje: With all the discussions you and I have taken part in in time past, you should know you're the last person I'll waste time with on the issue of commercialisation of Christianity or fraudulent twisting of Scripture to fleece folks of their money in the name of tithe. I'm only letting openmine know the inconsistencies in the tithe doctrine of your and your daddy. Openmine is obviously just encountering you so you're free to keep up the charade. Meanwhile, have you paid sirjohn the 500k you vowed before all of us to pay? |
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