Joagbaje:


[s]It wasn't relevant to your cause. Paul rather became a Jew to the Gentiles . You're shooting yourself in the foot there[/s]

Paul's Teaching were not limited to gentiles....Shoot myself..? i dont think i brought a gun with me

Joagbaje:

[s]More shooting in the foot . Yet this is the law you condemn [/s]

Uncle if you don't understand the meaning of "front"...pls let me know so that i can teach u...

Joagbaje:

[s]So what is your point then. If the apostle to the gentles could be so proud to use the law why are you demonising the law then? We are all viewing the scriptures before our eyes here [/s]

You are still missing the point due to ur obvious pride and deceptive motive....
The scripture is clear unless you have suddenly developed eye problem....
even a corresponding scripture in 1 Corinthians 9:23 is obviously made it clearer...but just like you have always done when you are cornered or have nothing more to say....You start getting emotional because you know u have been exposed for what you are a; tithe collector

Joagbaje:

Ask paul. Shey na our apostle .

So you have obviously ran out out steam that quick...i knew you wud display this side of you
It was only a matter of time...exercise fruit ke

Joagbaje:

The scriptures are Gods scriptures .period . It's not about order of priest .

Without a priesthood,your advocacy for the law lacks substance...

Joagbaje:

But I showed you scriptures to read for yourself . As much as you try to label me a law advocate . The principles are my point . You don't condemn spiritual principles because they are mentioned in the law. There are shadows in the law and there are practical principles . The kingdom principles . Christ

Sir joagbaje...after "principle",you will soon enter "revelations"
Do you carry out the procedures of the burnt offering as prescribed in the Law?
Have you been physically circumcised?
Do you Offer only unblemished animals?
Do you carry out the procedures of the guilt and sin offerings?
Do you bring meal offerings as prescribed in the Law of Moses?
Do you burn incense every day?
Do you bring two additional lambs as burnt offerings on the Sabbath?
Do you eat the Passover lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs on the night of the 14th of Nisan?
Until you have done dese and the rest of the 613 mosaic law...ur support for the law is weak and outdated!

Joagbaje:

Here we go round and round again. It can only rubbish the blood of christ if we seek be made righteous by them instead of faith.

It even worse...no thanks to you and ur likes who deceive and manipulate believers who no longer study their bible to find out how inconsistent ur flawed tithe principles are....

Joagbaje:

To be made right with God.

Joagbaje:

It's a foundation for right and wrong . Kingdom principles are there . And you have to know what is done away and what is still applicable .

How can a law have a foundation for wrong and right when the author of the law said it was weak and useless...
How can an outdated law still be applicable....to believers...?
Come ohh...which scriptures are you studying where "some" laws were set aside and "others"(which are applicable to you as tithe advocate) was left unfulfilled..?
Am yet to get that scripture from you after asking several times.... ...provide scriptures on it or forever remain quiet with ur flawed and manipulative doctrines!

Joagbaje:

Let's take gay marriage for example . Is right or wrong ?

Ephesians 5:22-26
Wives, submit to your own[b] husbands[/b] as to the Lord, for the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church. He is the Savior of the body. Now as the church submits to Christ, so wives are to submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her to make her holy, cleansing her with the washing of water by the word.

From the scriptures above,did you see wives submit to your wives ?
Or did you see where it was written that husbands respect your husbands ?
Hope you are okay?

Where were you wen God was describing such acts in Romans 1:26-27

This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. The males in the same way also left natural relations with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty of their error.

Joagbaje:

Kindly give a definition

the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God.

Joagbaje:

For man .

The man must be a Believer or not...Or is he a ghost?
Answer the question and stop been evasive

Joagbaje:

I won't do that

Well you just did...
U just evaded the question again

Joagbaje:

Yet you can rude and speak guile and the nature in you does not address it

See who is forming victim...
A pot calling a kettle black....Always the victim

Joagbaje:

How come the nature in the believers in Ephesus couldn't address them and Paul had to use the law as reference .

What of the Roman church ? He couldn't use the new nature and the holyghost to teach them about

Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

How come it's only you who doesn't need word of exhortation?

Your itching ear or eyes will not let you see where i carefully explained to you...
Did you fully understand the message of grace the very first time you became born again?
I have explained and explained and explained with scriptures about the reasons why he used the mosaic law to teach them....If you cant see it then your case is irredeemable...

Joagbaje:

Deal with jo and the bible

Who is Jo?
I don't know who is Jo....
Are you denying ur mentor?

Joagbaje:

The salvation of isreal is for a whole nation and its futuristic after tribulation. Israel is still blinded .

Has Christ been made the high priest?
Has the new covenant being set in place?
If ur answers are yes....then read ur statement again and make the required adjustments...
Is Israel still blind?

Joagbaje:

Have I said otherwise ?

Yes you have...and its preposterous to think a minister of the gospel will erroneously say some laws are still applicable...Amazing

Joagbaje:

The problem was man . It was man that lack the ability to do the law.

We all know that man was the problem...
but we also know the laws didn't bring God closer to his people....
We also know the law made nothing perfect..hence another law was established..
We know the new law enables Jesus,the high priest,to intercede on our behalf after offering him self once for all as an atoning sacrifice

Joagbaje:

In that case we don't even need a bible nor exhortation nor a pastor . you see am?

Even in ur ignorance u still remain cocky...
We need have gud ministers of the gospel with the true exhortations but not ur likes...who perpetuate the scriptures for their selfish gain...
With ur kind of teachings,i unfortunately see more believers becoming atheists or convert to Islam no thanks to the deception and manipulation coming from the pulpit...

Joagbaje:

You're still shooting yourself in the foot. It's because it's the word of God . And the law reveal God standing and principle .the law is holy . It's wrong use of it that may be wrong

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

You were so eager to quickly answer and you ignorantly forgot you were the one who made the statement @ the bolded above
U are now confused to the extent that you reject your own very words..

Joagbaje:

I don't get you . Kindly explain

That was in response to this...

That's my point. They were not under Jewish law. The only reason paul will quote the Jewish law for them is because . That's the scripture . It's found

but u thought i was the one who said it ....Sir go and drink water...you must be dehydrated
Ur own manipulations are choking u..

Joagbaje:

He didn't become a gentile . He rather became a Jew to reach the gentile . It's conflict . It doesn't add up. He can't quote the law he
condemned according to you

"For the sake of the gospel".....chai
Or do u want me to explain that for you...You still wont understand....because ur mind has been programmed that way

Joagbaje:

That's your application. To the Jew I understand but Gentiles ? Forget it. He quoted the law because it's Gods word.

Its not my application...its the word of God written in plain and simple english...
....whats so hard that you still don't understand what he did in 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 ?
Were the newly converted Christians not advised by the apostles and elders to abide by some of the mosaic laws due to pressures from some of the Pharisees to observe circumcision and other laws of Moses? (Acts 15:1-5)

Joagbaje:

Then if that's the case ,a lady can sleep with a man to bring him to church abi

Thats why what paul did was unique....though flawed...but he won souls for Christ!
The mandate given to paul ministry by God was different.
For the sake of the gospel,he wanted to win souls for christ...
So he ventured into unfriendly countries where Judaism was dominant!
We can as well conclude that paul had to blend into his environment to ensure the message was preached!

Joagbaje:

You're wrong sir . There will always be babes in the body of christ . People converted daily .

Will the forever remain babes?
The answer is no...unless their purpose of being born again was due to selfish motives...

Joagbaje:

You don't have to be rude. The love nature you claim leads you has what is called coutessy . We are not agbero

Why do u always play the victim wen u have been checkmated...
See who is talking....?
You keep ignoring the scriptures i quoted only to ask me several times over to show you the scriptures again....
It will sound as if am wasting my time...

The love nature inside of me enables me to keep writing and destroying dose deceptive pillars that you and other disappointing ministers of the gospel have used to chain the belief system of believers....
I want people to look back at this thread in 5 or 6 years to come as a guide or reference 2 evaluate what ever they are practicing...

Joagbaje:

If you can't post it here for us to read or at least type it out kindly forget it.

I have posted it more than 5 times on previous posts of mine and you still ask that i post it again....what manner of man are you?
At-least you wont say you don't have a bible....
Or U don't see it as some thing u sud give importance to?

I made an illustration...
Just to buttress my point where Paul said, "I have become ALL THINGS to ALL PEOPLE, so that I may by EVERY POSSIBLE MEANS SAVE SOME."
I may not use a stripper example....but am reading meanings into Paul's admission....he was willing to do what ever it took to ensure the gospel was preached...Thats just what his thoughts were...so don't blame him for such "actions" and don't blame me for understanding his plight


The church i attend only offers free-will collections....
Which is not mandatory or imposed...
Giving for a project or cause is based on the leading of your spirit...so one in church is subjecting anyone to either give a particular amount or impose it on anyone to give...
So maybe the assembly you attend may coercing and manipulative....different stokes for different folks


Uncle the difference is that my mine has scripture backing...urs is based on ur "revelation" whether true or false..


Did you intentionally omit "tithes" and replaced it with "instructed offering" from ur list of giving?



I disagree....it was not an instruction...it was a word of encouragement to the Corinthians which was based on wat they had and not what dey did not have....
Please go back and study 2 Corinthians 8 and study it slowly....

Why did you ignore this?

Candour:




My friend Gombs, what is so difficult about mentioning my moniker? You can't be scared to invite me your friend to party na?

I no wan just mention names... I wanted him to go there himself

Now you're tripping over the fact the Jesus never paid tithes because he was not a farmer!

So, Jesus as a jew never paid tithe because he was not a farmer shey? Ok, when Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, were they farmers?

How about Jesus received gifts or offerings but NEVER collected tithes because he was not a LEVITE or is that confusing to you too?

Stop these fantasy of "collecting tithes". Joagbaje has said it for the umpteenth time, Pastor's are not tithe collectors. Pastor's pay their tithes in faith, as papa Abraham did to that man who shares the same priesthood as Jesus...and since Abraham is the father of our faith, I think it is self explanatory, because it would be foolish for you to ask me who was the tithe collector, since God didn't command Abraham to give tithes, and still went on to tell Moses to institute tithing. Who was the tithe collector for Jacob?

Or None of the apostles collected tithes because they were not levites

refer to the above

Or the fact that the church NEVER collected tithes until 585AD after the council at Tours decided to go back to mosaic law for sustenance because of the collapse of the Roman empire that had sustained the church after Christianity became official religion? And even then it was strictly agricultural produce like Mosaic law prescribed?

fable history...


err, Moses' law was't strictly agricultural produce, and still ..it wasn't just crops...monies were involved.

There were only two types of income that were tithable: One was from agricultural production.

"All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s" (Leviticus 27:30).

This meant that a tenth of all agricultural produce of the land of Israel, whether fruits or vegetables, had to be tithed.

The second type of tithable income was the increase of animals. "All the tithe of the herd or flock, whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord" (verse 32). Only these two specific income producers were subject to the tithe IN THE LAW OF MOSES.

[size=3pt]Thank God I tithe by the faith of faithful Abraham to a priesthood who lives for ever. [/size]

There was, however, one exception to this rule. Leviticus 27:31 reads: "If a man will redeem ought of his tithe, he shall add unto it the fifth part thereof." In other words, if a man for various reasons did not wish to pay his tithe in kind (and he wished to give money as a substitute), he was penalized a fifth part.

Y'all should drop the tithe collector brouhaha, and that monies were never involved, but just crops.

Are you still confused by these assertions my dear friend Gombs?

I should be asking you same, my dear friend.

There are too groups of folks insisting tithing is Christian doctrine. They are

1.The sincerely wrong

2.The criminally inclined.

There are too groups of folks insisting tithing is not a Christian doctrine. They are

1.The sincerely wrong

2.The frugally inclined.

You my friend are in the first group.

Gombs:
Pheeew. What a thread!

Openmine, you seemed new to this arena, and I say welcome! Certain gladiators here, over the years, have been mute for several reasons, but this thread, is a replica of another that has being long dealt with, devoid of the shameless personal attacks of folks who cannot stay on topic, but show their neonate nature in biblical discussions. I welcome you to this thread, and offer you a new thread for a square discussion, of course making plainer the things joagbaje has been saying since the thread below and many more before it.

In this thread, you will be amazed at the reasoning of some folks; Highlights include

1. Tithes and offerings, Tithe is done with, so is offerings, what we take today in church is called COLLECTIONS. Let me quote one of many

What is this? What we give in worship gathering is 'contribution' NOT offerings. We don't give 'offerings' in worship gathering UNDER THE NT, such was by the law.


Someone then showed where Jesus called these givings as gifts, here was one of the replies

when Jesus made dat statement there was no christianity, only judaism, it was still OT, Christ died gave d perfect offering(his blood) and brought in NT n christianity, in christianity, we are enjoined to offer our bodies as living sacrifice n d fruit of our lips. I told u , d money we give in church are contributions, whats so dif to udastand?

2. The myriad of insults from the anti-titters

3. This epic post by one of the folks who posted few minutes ago, he said
Jesus NEVER paid tithes because he wasn't a farmer,

the same folks said Jesus was under the law, and functioned under the Mosaic laws before His death, but we now see an exception, He didn't pay tithe because He was not a farmer.

Just go there, it's 31 pages, but worth the read. Forget the shifting of goal post folks are trying to do here from the topic at hand to personal jabs.

https://www.nairaland.com/1456343/tithes-offerings-eternal-principles#18401359

I await your response.

Thanks for the invitation Sir,
Hmmm quite interesting....Though i wont lie to you...am slightly a busy guy....but once am less busy,i will pay the thread a visit....

openmine:

Thanks for the invitation Sir,
Hmmm quite interesting....Though i wont lie to you...am slightly a busy guy....but once am less busy,i will pay the thread a visit....

be my guest

Gombs:


be my guest

openmine:

....You start getting emotional because you know u have been exposed for what you are a; tithe collector

I'm a tither. Period. When you guys get cornered you start attacks . And calling supporters . Sit down and discuss. Shey you want truth . Don't try to scatter ground. But if you insist . I will kindly exit. Opari

So you have obviously ran out out steam that quick...i knew you wud display this side of you

Merry go round steam . Okay let's be rounding .

Without a priesthood,your advocacy for the law lacks substance...

You're only being manipulative. I believe any honest person should have seen the picture . But you're obviously trying to woo sympathy of you cheered givers .

Sir joagbaje...after "principle",you will soon enter "revelations"
Do you carry out the procedures of the burnt offering as prescribed in the Law?
Have you been physically circumcised?
Do you Offer only unblemished animals?
Do you carry out the procedures of the guilt and sin offerings?
Do you bring meal offerings as prescribed in the Law of Moses?
Do you burn incense every day?
Do you bring two additional lambs as burnt offerings on the Sabbath?
Do you eat the Passover lamb with unleavened bread and bitter herbs on the night of the 14th of Nisan?
Until you have done dese and the rest of the 613 mosaic law...ur support for the law is weak and outdated!

Ask paul. Not me . I only quoted his writings. If he says the law is holy,law is good.

It even worse...no thanks to you and ur likes who deceive and manipulate believers who no longer study their bible to find out how inconsistent ur flawed tithe principles are....

Really where have I spoken against bible study. You are rather the one speaking your own teaching . I asked you . Which bible did they study in the early church

How can a law have a foundation for wrong and right when the author of the law said it was weak and useless...

Is paul the author . The law can't make a man righteous .you have to be righteous by faith first. Works follow .

[quotes]Come ohh...which scriptures are you studying where "some" laws were set aside and "others"(which are applicable to you as tithe advocate) was left unfulfilled..?[/quote]

Sacrifices and offerings are principles . Paul talked about offerings and sacrifices . But you worship God without an offering. Which scripture are you reading . What is offering. It simply mean what you offer. But your new doctrine seem to have clouded the eye you ought to have used to see Even what is plain.

From the scriptures above,did you see wives submit to your wives ?
Or did you see where it was written that husbands respect your husbands ?
Hope you are okay?

If you're honest you will answer direct question. All these run run . How long will it go. Let's hit the nail on issues and move to other issues

Where were you wen God was describing such acts in Romans 1:26-27

This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. The males in the same way also left natural relations with females and were inflamed in their lust for one another. Males committed shameless acts with males and received in their own persons the appropriate penalty of their error.

On what ground is paul speaking . Is he a law maker ? What of the gay Christians who love God? Why is the love nature not telling them.

the action of declaring or making righteous in the sight of God.

Have I said anything contrary?

The man must be a Believer or not...Or is he a ghost?
Answer the question and stop been evasive

Ask proper question and I will give proper response

Well you just did...
U just evaded the question again

See who is forming victim...
A pot calling a kettle black....Always the victim

You're always the pot and kettle . I can remember being rude and insultive . Beside if I talk about it, it's not because of me . It's about the quality of your spirit and state . It's part of my call to correct or admonish . All these agbero abusive thing you guys do here . I just wonder what bible you read. It's a concern in a pun
If forum . We can debate issues as gentle men. State our points . Agree or disagree . But abusive? Count me out. By bible says other wise. So don't think . Let's Abuse jo. E go pain am. When I exit such thread . It's bible wisdom.

Your itching ear or eyes will not let you see where i carefully explained to you...

Thank you

Did you fully understand the message of grace the very first time you became born again?

Sure . Maybe you can tell us more

I have explained and explained and explained with scriptures about the reasons why he used the mosaic law to teach them....If you cant see it then your case is irredeemable...

Is it by force? Your explanation is unscriptural.

Who is Jo?
I don't know who is Jo....
Are you denying ur mentor?

If you want to discuss pastors fine. Name your church , name your pastor . Outline your doctrine ,let's discuss them .but be civilic.

Is Israel still blind?

Until the rapture , isreal remain blind this is the times of the Gentiles .The salvation of isreal will be a national salvation

Romans 11:25-26
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Yes you have...and its preposterous to think a minister of the gospel will erroneously say some laws are still applicable...Amazing

They a Godly principles . That why paul used them for illustrations

Even in ur ignorance u still remain cocky...

OUCH!!!!. . .

Thats why what paul did was unique....though flawed...but he won souls for Christ!

Firstly he didn't win any Jew by trying to compromise his faith. None. He was arrested . His grace was for the Gentiles. Secondly he wasn't quoting the law for the unsaved . He was quoting the law for his church members dear. He wasn't trying to win souls . They've been won.

The mandate given to paul ministry by God was different.

Untrue

For the sake of the gospel,he wanted to win souls for christ...

They were already Christians . Church in Rome ,church in Ephesus . Not Alhaji in Ephesus

So he ventured into unfriendly countries where Judaism was dominant!
We can as well conclude that paul had to blend into his environment to ensure the message was preached!

Don't create stuff

Will the forever remain babes?
The answer is no...unless their purpose of being born again was due to selfish motives...

Babes are turn in daily except the church is not evangelical

Why do u always play the victim wen u have been checkmated...

You don't have to be rude to checkmate . If I'm wrong I will admit . I am not you. I was against Ola in the other thread on JOSEPH prince but later I looked at it. He made some good point and I admired he was right . Has he won? I don't care . For me truth has won . But the way you go about debate and discussion it will be very difficult for you to admit wrong . Because of so much wrong attitude you display .

The love nature inside of me enables me to keep writing and destroying dose deceptive pillars that you and other disappointing ministers of the gospel have used to chain the belief system of believers....

Terrorist and robbers have good reasons .also that doesn't make you right. Especially when your post lack spiritual fruit in attitude and words.

2 Timothy 2:24-25
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth

Anything outside this is human Lust . Anger belongs to fools according to scriptures . So calm down .

I want people to look back at this thread in 5 or 6 years to come as a guide or reference 2 evaluate what ever they are practicing...

Nice , I should add double scriptures for viewers in my next post

I have posted it more than 5 times on previous posts of mine and you still ask that i post it again....what manner of man are you?

Keep posting . For me and viewers . I will do the same . Difficult so,Eti,Es to even respond because I don't remember what I'm responding to.

Why did you ignore this?

Mistake in copy and paste . The modified one didn't go. I will check it

Gombs:


be my guest

How about you be my guest. ... . How far brother, you staying in the Great Grace of God?

Gombs:


I no wan just mention names... I wanted him to go there himself

Ok

So, Jesus as a jew never paid tithe because he was not a farmer shey? Ok, when Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, were they farmers?

I wonder why you're tripping over this issue. Are you insinuating Jesus Christ paid tithe?

Is there any law that forbade the Pharisees from having farms? See the scripture again and note the bolded

Matthew 23:23 KJV
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Do you know the 3 items Christ told them they tithe are garden vegetables?

Stop these fantasy of "collecting tithes". Joagbaje has said it for the umpteenth time, Pastor's are not tithe collectors. Pastor's pay their tithes in faith, as papa Abraham did to that man who shares the same priesthood as Jesus...and since Abraham is the father of our faith, I think it is self explanatory, because it would be foolish for you to ask me who was the tithe collector, since God didn't command Abraham to give tithes, and still went on to tell Moses to institute tithing. Who was the tithe collector for Jacob?

All these tory because I told you Jesus didn't collect tithes?

I'm also a priest if you're not. Pls come pay your tithe to me

fable history...

To those who forget the church actually has factual history well documented.

err, Moses' law was't strictly agricultural produce, and still ..it wasn't just crops...monies were involved.

There were only two types of income that were tithable: One was from agricultural production.


"All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord’s" (Leviticus 27:30).

This meant that a tenth of all agricultural produce of the land of Israel, whether fruits or vegetables, had to be tithed.

The second type of tithable income was the increase of animals. "All the tithe of the herd or flock, whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord" (verse 32). Only these two specific income producers were subject to the tithe IN THE LAW OF MOSES.

[size=3pt]Thank God I tithe by the faith of faithful Abraham to a priesthood who lives for ever. [/size]

There was, however, one exception to this rule. Leviticus 27:31 reads: "If a man will redeem ought of his tithe, he shall add unto it the fifth part thereof." In other words, if a man for various reasons did not wish to pay his tithe in kind (and he wished to give money as a substitute), he was penalized a fifth part.

So after reading this part, its still difficult for you to realise TITHE WAS PURELY AGRICULTURAL? Does this scripture not tell you that tithe was only in kind? Is that not enough to tell you that even monetizing tithe attracted a penalty? Why will there be a penalty if not to serve as a deterrent? Or does it mean all you that are paying cash are actually adding 20% as penalty?

Y'all should drop the tithe collector brouhaha, and that monies were never involved, but just crops.

No my friend. Moses tithe was strictly agric produce. To show how serious God took the matter, a penalty of extra 20% awaited anyone intending to monetize it as the scripture you quoted also told u.

I should be asking you same, my dear friend.

No money as tithe.....only agric produce. Crops and the tenth animals that passed under a rod.

There are too groups of folks insisting tithing is not a Christian doctrine. They are

1.The sincerely wrong

2.The frugally inclined.

You my friend are in the first group.

Hahaha

Goshen360:


How about you be my guest. ... . How far brother, you staying in the Great Grace of God?

You sure?

Candour:


I wonder why you're tripping over this issue. Are you insinuating Jesus Christ paid tithe?

Is there any law that forbade the Pharisees from having farms? See the scripture again and note the bolded

Matthew 23:23 KJV
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Do you know the 3 items Christ told them they tithe are garden vegetables?

Were they farmers? A 'yes' or 'no' would be just fine.

All these tory because I told you Jesus didn't collect tithes?

I'm also a priest if you're not. Pls come pay your tithe to me

Stay focused... Who was the tithe collector for Jacob?

To those who forget the church actually has factual history well documented.

That's another day's topic

So after reading this part, its still difficult for you to realise TITHE WAS PURELY AGRICULTURAL?

Under Moses law, yes! You must have missed it in my post.

Does this scripture not tell you that tithe was only in kind?

Is that not enough to tell you that even monetizing tithe attracted a penalty?

NO sir! It was purely choice.

Monetary redemption was not allowed for the tithe of animals. Moses declared in verse 33, that "It shall not be redeemed". This means that the tithing law of Moses prohibited cattle ranchers from paying money at all. They were required to give the tenth animal no matter if they wanted to keep it for some reason to themselves.

It was a choice oooooooooooooo! Not a penalty. The choice was however limited to tithes of animals.

Why will there be a penalty if not to serve as a deterrent?

It is not a deterrent oooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[s]Or does it mean all you that are paying cash are actually adding 20% as penalty?[/s]

Inconsequential

No my friend. Moses tithe was strictly agric produce.

Including animals...

To show how serious God took the matter, a penalty of extra 20% awaited anyone intending to monetize it as the scripture you quoted also told u.

...and that was how a theory was born!

No money as tithe.....only agric produce. Crops and the tenth animals that passed under a rod.

Money, as i Just proved was a choice limited to tithe of animals.

Well, no need debating Moses' law of tithing, i just wanted to sufficiently show that;

1. the norm "tithe collector" is an absurd word, because y'all can't answer who collected/received Jacob's tithe.

2. Monies were accepted as tithes under Moses, but with an extra charge, and limited to animal tithing( I call it VAT )

3. Tithing like first fruits were acts of faith by Abraham and Abel respectively, acts that was commended by God.

Peace!

Gombs:


Were they farmers? A 'yes' or 'no' would be just fine.

Did they farm would be a more appropriate question. My mum in law is a hematologist yet runs poultry and livestock farming. What would you call her?

Stay focused... Who was the tithe collector for Jacob?

Bible didn't say. do you know? In fact how did he fulfill the vow?

That's another day's topic

No wahala

Under Moses law, yes! You must have missed it in my post.

So under whose law are you paying tithe? Jacob's?

NO sir! It was purely choice.

Just like its your choice to avoid using seatbelt on the highway and get a fine from FRSC. It doesn't make it a proper habit.

Monetary redemption was not allowed for the tithe of animals. Moses declared in verse 33, that "It shall not be redeemed". This means that the tithing law of Moses prohibited cattle ranchers from paying money at all. They were required to give the tenth animal no matter if they wanted to keep it for some reason to themselves.

No argument here.

It was a choice oooooooooooooo! Not a penalty. The choice was however limited to tithes of animals.

Choice that came with a 20% penalty. Do the farmers in your church pay this penalty?

It is not a deterrent oooooooooooooooooooooooo!

If it wasn't, it won't be a penalty.

Including animals...

That should go without saying I guess. But praise God you know.

...and that was how a theory was born!

From the bible we see

Money, as i Just proved was a choice limited to tithe of animals.

Leviticus 27:30-31 KJV
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's : it is holy unto the Lord . [31] And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

Is the above in your bible.

Well, no need debating Moses' law of tithing, i just wanted to sufficiently show that;

Your daddy, oyaks preaches mosaic tithe hence his saying YOU PAY IT.

1. the norm "tithe collector" is an absurd word, because y'all can't answer who collected Jacob's tithe, not if Melchizedek

Tell us who collected it.

2. Monies were accepted as tithes under Moses, but with an extra charge ( I call it VAT )

You can even call it "Omo Onile fees" or "marching ground" or "bush entry" after all you worship a god that would send devourer your way if you refuse to surrender your 10%

3. Tithing like first fruits were acts of faith by Abraham and Abel, acts that was commended by God.

Peace!

After all the time you wasted opening up "Midas touch by Kenneth Hagin for us and seeing what the man wrote about the so-called first fruits, you're still peddling the fraud??

Joagbaje:


I'm a tither. Period. When you guys get cornered you start attacks . And calling supporters . Sit down and discuss. Shey you want truth . Don't try to scatter ground. But if you insist . I will kindly exit. Opari
I didnt get cornered and i didnt attack you....i guess u have no idea what attack means...
I dont attack,i probe
U said you want the truth,I dont think you want the truth...
Exit? U already exited wen u started going on a merry go round about ur beliefs...so if you want to...dats ur problem!

[quote author=Joagbaje post=44943790]
Merry go round steam . Okay let's be rounding .

Am guess you want to round up...cos u r out of options..me dey full ground...

Joagbaje:

You're only being manipulative. I believe any honest person should have seen the picture . But you're obviously trying to woo sympathy of you cheered givers .

Cheer givers...did you say cheer givers?
I have none Uncle....If they are cheering me as u r alluding to...then it only means there is some fair amount of truth in my statements...
Or better still....My stance is backed up with scripture...hence they can relate with it...
Like i noticed recently,You love acting like the victim....are you sure you dont have praise singers already chanting ur name?

Joagbaje:

Ask paul. Not me . I only quoted his writings. If he says the law is holy,law is good.

Ur submission shows u have nothing to say about it...cos if you did,you wont refer me to Paul....I guess am sensing some withdrawal tacts

Joagbaje:

Really where have I spoken against bible study. You are rather the one speaking your own teaching . I asked you . Which bible did they study in the early church

Its obvious you are in a hurry to answer questions...relax and assimilate the replies before responding...You miss a lot when you are in a haste
I never said you were against bible study...
All am saying is ur likes manipulate the scriptures just to suit their selfish agenda and since most of the people in the congregation are gullible...So Its quiet easy to hoodwink dem with ur concocted "revelations"....
As for what the early Christians studied...I believe they were taught the gospel of Christ...

Joagbaje:

Is paul the author . The law can't make a man righteous .you have to be righteous by faith first. Works follow .

The author of the law is God....he has set aside the first commandments....and installed a new one...Ur work is based on ur faith(what you believe in)
You can not separate the two....If your righteousness was law based,your work will be law based.

Joagbaje:

Sacrifices and offerings are principles . Paul talked about offerings and sacrifices . But you worship God without an offering. Which scripture are you reading . What is offering. It simply mean what you offer. But your new doctrine seem to have clouded the eye you ought to have used to see Even what is plain.

U just did it again
Once again ur principles without scripture backing is flawed!
Back up ur beliefs esp ur pre-law tithe beliefs!
Then we can start from there....that's if you haven't lost steam
A careful check on the new law shows that the priesthood of Jesus had nothing to offer in terms of gifts and sacrifices...(Hebrews 7:27;8:3-4)
If the priesthood had nothing to offer or sacrifices,why should i offer something?
Was offering part of the mosaic law?
If you agree that its part of the mosaic law,Then It implies offerings is outdated and can not be practiced....
If you still do,then you are still obeying or being justified by the law of moses!

Joagbaje:

If you're honest you will answer direct question. All these run run . How long will it go. Let's hit the nail on issues and move to other issues

Honesty is relative Uncle
Our definitions might differ...what you call honesty may be seen as extortion to me...
I created an illustration from the bible to answer ur question...

The union of man and woman was conceived by God wen he created a eve as Adam's help mate!
And these are contained in the scripture....where the union of man and woman was ordained by God...
Hence any unnatural feelings for same s.ex is alien to him...
God created Adam and eve not godwin and adam or martha and eve...

Joagbaje:

On what ground is paul speaking . Is he a law maker ? What of the gay Christians who love God? Why is the love nature not telling them.

Paul was already aware of the natural attraction between man and woman...which has been in existence since the time of adam and eve!
But he was actually speaking against those who abandoned and left their natural desires and embraced unnatural desires(men sexually attracted to men,same as a woman sexually attracted to a woman)...
So paul was speaking on the grounds that the natural attraction (which was the very intent of God for man and woman) was being threatened..And those involved in such act should desist from it...Or God will give them over to their forbidden desires...
About gay Christians who love God?
Are you sure they are Christians...?
There is nothing like gay christians Oga ...and besides,the love nature is not in them neither do they have the holy spirit in them...cos the holy spirit knows all things.....The love existing between gay lovers are unnatural and the feelings are based on their lustful desires....which goes against the perfect plan of God for mankind!

Joagbaje:

Have I said anything contrary?

You tell me

Joagbaje:

Ask proper question and I will give proper response

Once again you have bcome evasive again...
I asked you a simple question...
Go back and locate that question...It had to do with the belief system of the romans!

Well you just did...
U just evaded the question again

Joagbaje:

You're always the pot and kettle . I can remember being rude and insultive . Beside if I talk about it, it's not because of me . It's about the quality of your spirit and state . It's part of my call to correct or admonish . All these agbero abusive thing you guys do here . I just wonder what bible you read. It's a concern in a pun
If forum . We can debate issues as gentle men. State our points . Agree or disagree . But abusive? Count me out. By bible says other wise. So don't think . Let's Abuse jo. E go pain am. When I exit such thread . It's bible wisdom.

I guess you are implying that you dont remember being rude or insulting...Please go to ur previous posts and check what you said...
If you call urself a minister of the gospel,then i pity the audience who receives such erroneous and manipulatively constructed doctrines from you...
Who are you correcting or admonishing?
A minister who cannot defend his concocted pre-law tithe beliefs ....

Joagbaje:

Thank you

You are always welcome..

Joagbaje:

Sure . Maybe you can tell us more

Really...and you still make these intentional errors and yet not humble enough to learn?
Disappointment is an understatement

Joagbaje:

Is it by force? Your explanation is unscriptural.

How?
I gave you scriptures...How is it un-scriptural...?
was my explanation without scriptures?

Joagbaje:

If you want to discuss pastors fine. Name your church , name your pastor . Outline your doctrine ,let's discuss them .but be civilic.

Why should i?
I tot you said the discus sud be between us and must not involve pastors?
Or have you forgotten what you said,"leave Pastor chris out of this...let the discus be Jo and the bible"

Joagbaje:

Until the rapture , isreal remain blind this is the times of the Gentiles .The salvation of isreal will be a national salvation

Romans 11:25-26
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

I want you to understand this secret truth, brothers and sisters. This truth will help you understand that you don’t know everything. The truth is this: Part of Israel has been made stubborn, but that will change when enough non-Jewish people have come to God. 26 And that is how all Israel will be saved. The Scriptures say,

“The Savior will come from Zion;
he will take away all evil from the family of Jacob.

Not all of isreal oga...only part of israel were affected...
And don't you think enough non- jewish people have come to God since the time of this letter to the romans?

Joagbaje:

They a Godly principles . That why paul used them for illustrations

Oga Joagbaje....please Scripture to prove that some laws have been done away with and some are still applicable...Its imperative for this thread..!

Joagbaje:

OUCH!!!!. . .

OOps sorry..

Joagbaje:

Firstly he didn't win any Jew by trying to compromise his faith. None. He was arrested . His grace was for the Gentiles. Secondly he wasn't quoting the law for the unsaved . He was quoting the law for his church members dear. He wasn't trying to win souls . They've been won.

he was quoting the law for the unsaved...Acts 28:23
It was Paul who said so not me....1 corinthians 9:23 - 25

19 I am free. I belong to no other person, but I make myself a slave to everyone. I do this to help save as many people as I can.

20 To the [b]Jews I became like a Jew so that I could help save Jews. I myself am not ruled by the law, but to those who are ruled by the law I became like someone who is ruled by the law. I did this to help save those who are ruled by the law.

21 To those who are without the law I became like someone who is without the law. I did this to help save those who are without the law. (But really, I am not without God’s law—I am ruled by the law of Christ.)

22 To those who are weak, I became weak so that I could help save them. I have become all things to all people. I did this so that I could save people in any way possible.

23 I do all this to make the Good News known. I do it so that I can share in the blessings of the Good News.[/b]

I didnt say so ohh...paul said so...If in doubt,Go and check it in ur bible....

Joagbaje:

Untrue

Very true

Joagbaje:

They were already Christians . Church in Rome ,church in Ephesus . Not Alhaji in Ephesus

According to the 1 corinthians 9:19 - 23 and acts 28,It was apparent that rome had not yet been saved...

23 Paul and the Jews chose a day for a meeting. On that day many more of these Jews met with Paul at his house. He spoke to them all day long, explaining God’s kingdom to them. He used the Law of Moses and the writings of the prophets to persuade them to believe in Jesus.

24 Some of the Jews believed what he said, but others did not believe.

25 They had an argument among themselves and were ready to leave. But Paul said one more thing to them: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet. He said,

26
‘Go to this people and tell them:
You will listen and you will hear,
but you will not understand.
You will look and you will see,
but you will not understand what you see.
27
Yes, the minds of these people are now closed.
They have ears, but they don’t listen.
They have eyes, but they refuse to see.
If their minds were not closed,
they might see with their eyes;
they might hear with their ears;
they might understand with their minds.
Then they might turn back to me and be healed.’

28 “I want you Jews to know that God has sent his salvation to the non-Jewish people. They will listen!”

Joagbaje:

Don't create stuff

Please study Acts 28....am not creating stuffs like u are alleging...u sud know better...since you are a minister of the gospel...
Don't be proud...there is a lot to learn...am also learning too...

Joagbaje:

Babes are turn in daily except the church is not evangelical

Hmmm..i agree

Joagbaje:

You don't have to be rude to checkmate . If I'm wrong I will admit . I am not you. I was against Ola in the other thread on JOSEPH prince but later I looked at it. He made some good point and I admired he was right . Has he won? I don't care . For me truth has won . But the way you go about debate and discussion it will be very difficult for you to admit wrong . Because of so much wrong attitude you display .

So far i doubt if you ever admit that you are wrong...U see urself as an embodiment of spiritual knowledge...Though its not like there is any thing wrong with that...but wen u are proud and cocky esp with ur unproven spiritual principles that lack scripture proofs...U end up feeling that you are all knowing...

Joagbaje:

Terrorist and robbers have good reasons .also that doesn't make you right. Especially when your post lack spiritual fruit in attitude and words.

Attitude? You haven't seen attitude...
So i guess the word "silly" directed to me has a spiritual fruit attached to it according to Oga Joagbaje...right?

Joagbaje:


[color]2 Timothy 2:24-25
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth[/color]

Anything outside this is human Lust . Anger belongs to fools according to scriptures . So calm down .

Anger?
who ever said anything about anger...?
If i as annoyed or angry,i wud have left the thread or said something i wud regret later...
I hope and believe 2 Timothy 2:24-25 also applies to you...

Joagbaje:

Nice , I should add double scriptures for viewers in my next post

Good...thats the spirit...Now start by posting scriptures to prove ur "Kingdom principles or revelations" which includes the pre-law tithe...that's the first place 2 start....

Joagbaje:

Keep posting . For me and viewers . I will do the same . Difficult so,Eti,Es to even respond because I don't remember what I'm responding to.

Hmmm...strange

Joagbaje:
Mistake in copy and paste . The modified one didn't go. I will check it

Okay

Gombs:


You sure?

Bros, bring it on....lol..... . You say I no get your time, na make pepper rest joor.

Candour:


Did they farm would be a more appropriate question. My mum in law is a hematologist yet runs poultry and livestock farming. What would you call her?

Never knew that could be a difficult question to answer.. Issorai.

Bible didn't say. [s]do you know? In fact how did he fulfill the vow?[/s]

Thanks.
So, because the bible didn't say, shall we then assume their was a physical tithe collector?

No wahala

Thanks

So under whose law are you paying tithe? Jacob's?

My tithing pre dates the law!Do we need go over that again?

Just like its your choice to avoid using seatbelt on the highway and get a fine from FRSC. It doesn't make it a proper habit.

So, Moses fined them folks who gave money in lieu for the crops or livestock?

Klap for yasef

No argument here.

Great!

Choice that came with a 20% penalty. Do the farmers in your church pay this penalty?

Looooooooool! Tithing in my church predates the law, How many times do i have to tell you?

If it wasn't, it won't be a penalty.

see logic na! .

Just like saying, "we accept cash here, but if you bring your ATM card to use on our POS, we'd deduct 5% VAT also". Question now is,

How is the ATM card VAT a deterrent for those who doesn't have cash?

That should go without saying I guess. But praise God you know.

Praise God you agreed.

From the bible we see

Candour International Version (CIV), yeah?

Leviticus 27:30-31 KJV
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's : it is holy unto the Lord . [31] And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

Is the above in your bible.

Redundancy. Go to verse 33

Your daddy, oyaks preaches mosaic tithe hence his saying YOU PAY IT.

a new dimension now! Out of steam, no?

well the term "PAY IT" was from the bible, scroll a bit down, you'd see the verse.

Tell us who collected it.

The fact you don't know proves that the norm "tithe collector" is a fantasy of anti tithers.

ruminate on this
Heb 7 NIV
9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.


a little hint: Where was Jacob when Abraham met Melchizedek?
This should give you a clue, if it doesn't...then, I'm sorry.

You can even call it "Omo Onile fees" or "marching ground" or "bush entry" after all you worship a god that would send devourer your way if you refuse to surrender your 10%

hehehehehehehehehhihihiihihihhhhahahahahhahahahahahahhahhahahah

After all the time you wasted opening up "Midas touch by Kenneth Hagin for us and seeing what the man wrote about the so-called first fruits, you're still peddling the fraud??

I refuse to derail!

Goshen360:


Bros, bring it on....lol..... . You say I no get your time, na make pepper rest joor.

Abeg, help bro Candour na?

Gombs:


Abeg, help bro Candour na?

Is that your stylish way of running away?

Gombs:


Never knew that could be a difficult question to answer.. Issorai.

It'll of course be difficult for you to answer.

Thanks.
So, because the bible didn't say, shall we then assume their was a physical tithe collector?

Genesis 28:22 KJV
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

That's the tithe Jacob vowed to give. Who collected it?are you about to scream Melchizedek?

My tithing pre dates the law!Do we need go over that again?

Hebrews 7:4 KJV
Now consider how great this man was , unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

The tithe mentioned before the law was of spoils of war. Are you also giving tithe of spoils of war?

So, Moses fined them folks who gave money in lieu for the crops or livestock?

Klap for yasef

Pa pa pa pa......myself. Are u OK now?

Looooooooool! Tithing in my church predates the law, How many times do i have to tell you?

Hebrews 7:4 KJV
Now consider how great this man was , unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

The tithe paid before the law was from spoils of war.

Are your church members war captives from which spoils are taken? Are you a war captive?

see logic na! .

Just like saying, "we accept cash here, but if you bring your ATM card to use on our POS, we'd deduct 5% VAT also". Question now is,

How is the ATM card VAT a deterrent for those who doesn't have cash?

Have you heard of cash handling charges? My bank charges me 100naira if I refuse to use my ATM at the bank. That's exactly a punishment for still doing my cash transactions across the counter.

Should that be difficult to see?

Praise God you agreed.

Hallelujah

Candour International Version (CIV), yeah?

What do you think?

Redundancy. Go to verse 33

??

a new dimension now! Out of steam, no?

well the term "PAY IT" was from the bible, scroll a bit down, you'd see the verse.

So do you also believe a non tither is a robber and must go to hell?

Jo called it a revelation and principle. Will I also go to hell for not catching this tithe principle? If its by revelation, how does it become obligatory for you and I that it becomes MUST PAY according to oyaks?

The fact you don't know proves that the norm "tithe collector" is a fantasy of anti tithers.

ruminate on this
Heb 7 NIV
9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.


a little hint: Where was Jacob when Abraham met Melchizedek?
This should give you a clue, if it doesn't...then, I'm sorry.

If Jacob already paid according to the below

Hebrews 7:9-10 KJV
And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. [10] For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

What about this below? Does it mean it was rendered redundant?


Genesis 28:22 KJV
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Is that why the bible is silent on who received it? Does that mean Joseph, Simeon etc didn't also need to pay since they already paid in Abraham's loins? Or didn't it cover them also?

hehehehehehehehehhihihiihihihhhhahahahahhahahahahahahhahhahahah



I refuse to derail!

Please don't.

Candour:

It'll of course be difficult for you to answer.

I can Understand, I really do.

Genesis 28:22 KJV
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

That's the tithe Jacob vowed to give. Who collected it?are you about to scream Melchizedek?

Why do you all have a problem then, when i say "I give my tithes to God?"

Hebrews 7:4 KJV
Now consider how great this man was , unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

The tithe mentioned before the law was of spoils of war. Are you also giving tithe of spoils of war?

Did Jacob give spoils of war? Which war?

Hint: Go to Genesis 28:22 KJV and see what he tithed of.

Pa pa pa pa......myself. Are u OK now?

Moses and fines... that's a new one buddy!

Hebrews 7:4 KJV
Now consider how great this man was , unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

[s]The tithe paid before the law was from spoils of war.[/s]

Are your church members war captives from which spoils are taken? Are you a war captive?

Was Jacob a Sumarai, a Marine, Commando, of Sparta-like warrior?

Have you heard of cash handling charges? My bank charges me 100naira if I refuse to use my ATM at the bank. That's exactly a punishment for still doing my cash transactions across the counter.

Punishment or choice? Is it their money?

Hallelujah

Glory!!

What do you think?

Heretic?

??

v 33

So do you also believe a non tither is a robber and must go to hell?

God is faithful, merciful and kind. He is gracious. He didn't talk about hell when He said folks rob Him, He however spoke of a curse they bring on themselves. If you like, tithe, if you don't like, leave others who do. Tithing, like anything in God's kingdom is a choice.

Jo called it a revelation and principle.

Yup! I asked someone on here to show me where God commanded Abraham and Jacob to tithe... mind obliging me?

Will I also go to hell for not catching this tithe principle?

Scroll bit up for an answer

If its by revelation, how does it become obligatory for you and I that it becomes MUST PAY according to oyaks?

Like I said, it is a choice, if you like, tithe, if you don't... don't. I have NEVER SEEN OR HEARD Pastor Chris force anyone to tithe... NEVER.

If Jacob already paid according to the below

Hebrews 7:9-10 KJV
And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. [10] For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

What about this below? Does it mean it was rendered redundant?

Did Levi Pay tithe in Abraham? If yes... Why do you have a problem when heirs according to the promise pay tithes?

Genesis 28:22 KJV
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Is that why the bible is silent on who received it?

Lol... You all had the assumption that pastors are tithe collectors, I asked who collected Jacob's since Jacob said he will give it to God. The onus is on y'all who call pastors tithe collectors to show who received Jacob's, and tell us who taught the man the principle of tithes.

Does that mean Joseph, Simeon etc didn't also need to pay since they already paid in Abraham's loins? Or didn't it cover them also?

Be reasonable na, were these folks levites who received tithes?

The levites received these tithes, and the bible reckons that the levites paid these tithe in Abraham, when Abraham met Melchizedek, who share same priesthood as Jesus, FOREVER.

Please don't.

I can't

Goshen360

this is for you...


Tithes and offerings are widely discussed and God spoke of them in Malachi. If tithes are done away with, what about offerings? You did say in the other thread that God referred to burnt offerings, but I beg to differ.

There are many instructions for sacrifice throughout the Pentateuch, but Leviticus chapters 1-7 is completely dedicated to the 5 Levitical offerings which were the main sacrifices used in the rituals. They describe 5 kinds of sacrifices: The burnt offering, the meal offering, the peace offering, the sin offering, and the trespass offering. Each of the sacrifices were uniquely fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

But Paul talked about some kind of givings (some translations used offerings), he also taught on the conditions for giving, and the benefits...My question is, is giving not same as offerings? Is collections (as you lot call it) the giving Paul was talking about? What of that of Peter and Ananias? Was it collections too?

finally, what is the difference between gifts, collections and offerings, as used in the new testament. Thanks.

put these in mind

2 Corinthian 11:8
New International Version
I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

Note this question too
Why did Paul Collect and Delivered an Offering for the Jerusalem Church?
What compelled Paul to raise funds among his gentile converts for the poor in Jerusalem?

thanks

Gombs:


I can Understand, I really do.

Sure

Why do you all have a problem then, when i say "I give my tithes to God?"

You're free to give to joagbaje if you so wish. The question is whom did Jacob give the tithe he vowed to?

Did Jacob give spoils of war? Which war?

Hint: Go to Genesis 28:22 KJV and see what he tithed of.

So its now Jacob you're following? No more Abraham's tithe? Of course you must enter a spin into the matter

See Jacob giving God conditions HE MUST FULFILL for the tithe to be given


Genesis 28:20-22 KJV
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, [21] So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: [22] And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Since its now Jacobs tithe you follow, do you also give God conditions he must meet? We know Melchizedek received from Abraham, who received it from Jacob?

Moses and fines... that's a new one buddy!

Of course Mosaic law was all about penalties. Sin offering, atonement offering, cleansing rites etc. Or you don't know?

Was Jacob a Sumarai, a Marine, Commando, of Sparta-like warrior?

Exactly my point. Abraham gave tithes from spoils of war, NOTHING FROM HIS RICHES before he went to war. Jacob vowed to give from whatever he made from Laban's house. 2 very different things.

Once again, are you a war captive from whom spoils of war are taken to fulfill tithing ala Abraham?

Punishment or choice? Is it their money?

Punishment for not using the ATM. That should be clear.

Heretic?

??

God is faithful, merciful and kind. He is gracious. He didn't talk about hell when He said folks rob Him, He however spoke of a curse they bring on themselves. If you like, tithe, if you don't like, leave others who do. Tithing, like anything in God's kingdom is a choice.

Won't thieves who don't repent go to hell? So why won't non tithing christians (robbers of God according to oyaks) not go to hell? Are you scared of saying it?

Why not say it and free your conscience?

The oyaks divorce is also a devourer... Or you don't think so?

Yup! I asked someone on here to show me where God commanded Abraham and Jacob to tithe... mind obliging me?

Abraham gave tithes ONCE of spoils of war, Jacob vowed to give A tithe dependent upon God meeting a condition. How do these 2 instances resemble the obligation on you and others that you're trying to preach to me today?

Scroll bit up for an answer

Be bold enough to say it na. Will robber go to hell? Will a non tithing Christian go to hell?

Like I said, it is a choice, if you like, tithe, if you don't... don't. I have NEVER SEEN OR HEARD Pastor Chris force anyone to tithe... NEVER.

Does Malachi 3:8-11 apply to a Christian? Was that scripture on non tithers as robbers written to Christians?

Did Levi Pay tithe in Abraham? If yes... Why do you have a problem when heirs according to the promise pay tithes?

Did Aaron pay tithes? Was he not also in Abraham's loins when he paid?

Lol... You all had the assumption that pastors are tithe collectors, I asked who collected Jacob's since Jacob said he will give it to God. The onus is on y'all who call pastors tithe collectors to show who received Jacob's, and tell us who taught the man the principle of tithes.

Melchizedek received from Abraham. Bible didn't tell us if Jacob redeemed his vow and to whom. Moses commanded Israelites to give to Levite's while Levite's were commanded to give to Aaron to eat belleful.

You can see clearly defined givers and collectors. Who collects yours other than oyaks and some crumbs for Jo etc?

Be reasonable na, were these folks levites who received tithes?

The levites received these tithes, and the bible reckons that the levites paid these tithe in Abraham, when Abraham met Melchizedek, who share same priesthood as Jesus, FOREVER.

Try and read your bible. Israelites pay to levites so levites can chop.

Numbers 18:24 KJV
But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord , I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Levites pay a tithe of the tithes they received to Aaron so he too can chop.

Numbers 18:26-28 KJV
Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord , even a tenth part of the tithe. [27] And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress. [28] Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord's heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Isreal knew whom they gave theirs to. Levites knew whom they gave theirs to. Aaron knew his own job was to eat the tithes. Whom do you give yours to? Oyaks?

Who eats your tithes? Oyaks?

I can't

Ok

Hmmm.

Jacob paid tithe. To whom?
No record of whether it as even paid in the first place. Yet some folks want us to believe tithing predates the law.
Oh yeah, Melchizedek.
A one-time occurrence based on spoils of war suddenly establishes it as a pre-law occurrence even though no other records show that it was a regular occurrence by descendants of Abraham.

These people throw words about thinking they can confuse us.

Try harder.

Candour:

You're free to give to joagbaje if you so wish. The question is whom did Jacob give the tithe he vowed to?

He said he'd give it to God... Now, y'all folks saying pastors are tithe collectors are the ones who should hide in shame... The man gave his tithes as vowed... My point is, he gave tithe TO God.

So its now Jacob you're following? No more Abraham's tithe? Of course you must enter a spin into the matter

Try as much as you can to turn tables, but any sane person would see that I used Jacob's tithe to refute your baseless claims that tithes before the law was spoils of war.

See Jacob giving God conditions HE MUST FULFILL for the tithe to be given


Genesis 28:20-22 KJV
And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, [21] So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: [22] And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Since its now Jacobs tithe you follow, do you also give God conditions he must meet? We know Melchizedek received from Abraham, who received it from Jacob?

Refer to the above know why I mentioned Jacob's tithing.

Of course Mosaic law was all about penalties. Sin offering, atonement offering, cleansing rites etc. Or you don't know?

What's new to me is that he imposed a fine to deter folks from tithing in cash

Exactly my point. Abraham gave tithes from spoils of war, NOTHING FROM HIS RICHES before he went to war. Jacob vowed to give from whatever he made from Laban's house. 2 very different things.

Once again, are you a war captive from whom spoils of war are taken to fulfill tithing ala Abraham?

You had no point. You baselessly said that tithing before the law was spoils of war... Should I quote you?

Punishment for not using the ATM. That should be clear.

??

Won't thieves who don't repent go to hell? So why won't non tithing christians (robbers of God according to oyaks) not go to hell? Are you scared of saying it?

I won't delve into your circle walking... I have told you and shown you God's pronouncement, however your deductions are is your problem.

Why not say it and free your conscience?

My conscience is clear... Your deductions are however your opinions.

The oyaks divorce is also a devourer... Or you don't think so?

Try to stay focused. Stay on topic.

Abraham gave tithes ONCE of spoils of war, Jacob vowed to give A tithe dependent upon God meeting a condition. How do these 2 instances resemble the obligation on you and others that you're trying to preach to me today?

My question was where was it written that God commanded them both to tithe? If it wasn't a revelation, as Abel's firstfruits offering, what else could it have been, seeing that God later instituted tithing?

Be bold enough to say it na. Will robber go to hell? Will a non tithing Christian go to hell?

Redundancy

Does Malachi 3:8-11 apply to a Christian? Was that scripture on non tithers as robbers written to Christians?

Here we go again!

Let me fetch you a link about this malachi thing?

Did Aaron pay tithes? Was he not also in Abraham's loins when he paid?

This is common sense na... Wasn't Aaron a Levite? (Ex 4:14,that's another day's talk) Did levites pay tithes? What are you now saying?

They collected these tithes and paid in Abraham... Simple grammar!

Melchizedek received from Abraham. Bible didn't tell us if Jacob redeemed his vow and to whom.

So, he didn't and yet, God blessed him? Na wa ooooooooooooo... You mean the line of promise had a dishonesty link?

Moses commanded Israelites to give to Levite's while Levite's were commanded to give to Aaron to eat belleful.

You can see clearly defined givers and collectors. Who collects yours other than oyaks and some crumbs for Jo etc?

Stay focused.

Try and read your bible. Israelites pay to levites so levites can chop.

However it may, how many times do I have to tell you my tithing predates the law?

Numbers 18:24 KJV
But the tithes of the children of Israel, which they offer as an heave offering unto the Lord , I have given to the Levites to inherit: therefore I have said unto them, Among the children of Israel they shall have no inheritance.

Levites pay a tithe of the tithes they received to Aaron so he too can chop.

Numbers 18:26-28 KJV
Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord , even a tenth part of the tithe. [27] And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress. [28] Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord's heave offering to Aaron the priest.

Isreal knew whom they gave theirs to. Levites knew whom they gave theirs to. Aaron knew his own job was to eat the tithes. Whom do you give yours to? Oyaks?

Redundancy.

Who eats your tithes? Oyaks?

Redundancy


I can see you've got nothing else to say aside wallow in same back and forth.

Twas nice explain more to the world about tithe with you around. Thanks buddy!

Gombs:


He said he'd give it to God... Now, y'all folks saying pastors are tithe collectors are the ones who should hide in shame... The man gave his tithes as vowed... My point is, he gave tithe TO God.

Abraham gave his to Melchizedek. Isreal gave theirs to Levites to eat (Num 18:24). Levites gave theirs to Aaron to chop (Num 18:28). Jacob demanded God perform a duty BEFORE he'll give his.

Oluwagombs, whom do u give yours to? Who chops your tithe? Oyaks or Jo?

Try as much as you can to turn tables, but any sane person would see that I used Jacob's tithe to refute your baseless claims that tithes before the law was spoils of war.

Abraham gave tithes from ONLY spoils of war. Jacob made a tithe vow. Which one are you practicing dear Gombs?

Refer to the above know why I mentioned Jacob's tithing.

Melchizedek chopped Abraham's tithe. Levites, the poor, orphans, strangers chopped Israel's tithe. Who chops yours?

What's new to me is that he imposed a fine to deter folks from tithing in cash

Now u know

You had no point. You baselessly said that tithing before the law was spoils of war... Should I quote you?

Abraham's tithe was of spoils of war. What's yours composed of?

I won't delve into your circle walking... I have told you and shown you God's pronouncement, however your deductions are is your problem.


My conscience is clear... Your deductions are however your opinions.

Would Abraham be termed a robber if he didn't give Melchizedek? Would Jacob be called a robber if he didn't make that vow?

Am I a robber for not catching this 'revelation'?

Try to stay focused. Stay on topic.

You brought devourer into the mix from Malachi and I'm baffled that a marital devourer caught up with oyaks. Was his tithe records in heaven not up to date?

My question was where was it written that God commanded them both to tithe? If it wasn't a revelation, as Abel's firstfruits offering, what else could it have been, seeing that God later instituted tithing?

If its simply a revelation, how does it become robbery that oyaks now uses Malachi to emphasize?

Redundancy

Once again, who chops your tithe?

Here we go again!

Let me fetch you a link about this malachi thing?

I know it must be from one of the tithe grabbers but pls feel free

This is common sense na... Wasn't Aaron a Levite? (Ex 4:14,that's another day's talk) Did levites pay tithes? What are you now saying?

Yes levites paid

Numbers 18:26-28 KJV
Thus speak unto the Levites, and say unto them, When ye take of the children of Israel the tithes which I have given you from them for your inheritance, then ye shall offer up an heave offering of it for the Lord , even a tenth part of the tithe. [27] And this your heave offering shall be reckoned unto you, as though it were the corn of the threshingfloor, and as the fulness of the winepress. [28] Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord's heave offering to Aaron the priest.


Whom do you give yours?

They collected these tithes and paid in Abraham... Simple grammar!

Are you saying they were not to pay again because they already paid 500years before in Abraham?

Were Simeon, Judah, Benjamin also not in Abraham then? How come they were still instructed to pay?

Also, see Levites being asked to pay


Numbers 18:28 KJV
Thus ye also shall offer an heave offering unto the Lord of all your tithes, which ye receive of the children of Israel; and ye shall give thereof the Lord's heave offering to Aaron the priest.

So, he didn't and yet, God blessed him? Na wa ooooooooooooo... You mean the line of promise had a dishonesty link?

So how did he pay it? To whom did he give it?



Stay focused.

However it may, how many times do I have to tell you my tithing predates the law?

We know. Burnt offering and sabbath also predate the law but i dont see you practice them. The issue is which tithe do you practice?

Redundancy.



Redundancy

Story

I can see you've got nothing else to say aside wallow in same back and forth.

Twas nice explain more to the world about tithe with you around. Thanks buddy!

Running away as usual?

Gombs:
Goshen360

this is for you...


1 - Tithes and offerings are widely discussed and God spoke of them in Malachi. If tithes are done away with, what about offerings? You did say in the other thread that God referred to burnt offerings, but I beg to differ.

2 - There are many instructions for sacrifice throughout the Pentateuch, but Leviticus chapters 1-7 is completely dedicated to the 5 Levitical offerings which were the main sacrifices used in the rituals. They describe 5 kinds of sacrifices: The burnt offering, the meal offering, the peace offering, the sin offering, and the trespass offering. Each of the sacrifices were uniquely fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

3 - But Paul talked about some kind of givings (some translations used offerings), he also taught on the conditions for giving, and the benefits...My question is, is giving not same as offerings? Is collections (as you lot call it) the giving Paul was talking about? What of that of Peter and Ananias? Was it collections too?

4 - finally, what is the difference between gifts, collections and offerings, as used in the new testament. Thanks.

put these in mind

2 Corinthian 11:8
New International Version
I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you.

Note this question too
Why did Paul Collect and Delivered an Offering for the Jerusalem Church?
What compelled Paul to raise funds among his gentile converts for the poor in Jerusalem?

thanks

I'm responding according to your paragraphs.

1 - I only mentioned burnt offering as one of the whole offerings that are being offered and meant in Malachi. When God said in Malachi TITHES AND OFFERINGS, He wasn't just telling them something new but what they already knew but they're doing ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE AND LAW. So, understanding what God was saying when he said in Malachi ....In tithes and offerings. ..you have to go back to the law where it was commanded......HOWEVER, REMEMBER, CHRISTIANS ARE NOT REQUIRED BY THE NEW COVENANT TO GO BACK TO THE LAW BECAUSE WE HAVE A BETTER COVENANT IN CHRIST.

2 - I agree with the truth in your 2nd paragraph above and that's what I was referring to that they are no longer required because of the idea they carry....it wasn't meant to mean or interpret as donation in the new testament church.

3. Giving is giving NOT offerings. Biblical offering as something different. The tithe teachers or those who twisted the tithe also tried twisting the meaning of offering. Contributions can come in form of giving but not offerings. There's a purpose for offering and there's purpose for contribution or giving.

If you think contributions are offerings as used by some translations, then you and those translations can argue with HEBREWS 10:5 - 8.

4 - Gifts, collections and offerings as used in the new testament. ...we have to follow the context.

Plus,

2 Corinthian 11:8 doesn't mean Paul, the Apostle put gun in the head of people to collect stuff from them. It's best understood to mean I collected from them to give to those in need among the church of God, not for my personal purpose.....my paraphrase

You have to go to where Paul collected the so called "offerings" and reconcile it with where he delivered it. What was it is when he collected it and what was it when delivered?

[quote author=Goshen360 post=45001714]

I'm responding according to your paragraphs.

1 - I only mentioned burnt offering as one of the whole offerings that are being offered and meant in Malachi. When God said in Malachi TITHES AND OFFERINGS, He wasn't just telling them something new but what they already knew but they're doing ACCORDING TO THE ORDINANCE AND LAW. So, understanding what God was saying when he said in Malachi ....In tithes and offerings. ..you have to go back to the law where it was commanded......[s]HOWEVER, REMEMBER, CHRISTIANS ARE NOT REQUIRED BY THE NEW COVENANT TO GO BACK TO THE LAW BECAUSE WE HAVE A BETTER COVENANT IN CHRIST. [/s]

Hold it... Ephesians 6:1-2, is that not the law of Moses?

[size=2pt]This is what Joagbaje has been trying to teach some folks on here.
[/size]

2 - I agree with the truth in your 2nd paragraph above and that's what I was referring to that they are no longer required because of the idea they carry....it wasn't meant to mean or interpret as donation in the new testament church.

Great!

3. Giving is giving NOT offerings.

Proof!

remember, I already listed types of offerings abolished, and showed that Paul taugh about some givings/offerings that were not as those in the book of Leviticus.

Biblical offering as something different. The tithe teachers or those who twisted the tithe also tried twisting the meaning of offering.

stay focused now!
my question is, Is GIFTS different from GIVINGS which is also different from OFFERINGS?? The greek worrds here are dosis, domah and Prosphora. ALL these greek word has one thing in common... the word Gift.

So, was Paul's techings on Collections as you call it and not gifts as in gifts, giving and offerings?

Contributions can come in form of giving but not offerings .

HAHHHHAHAHHHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH... Did you read what you just wrote?

Dear Lord Jesus!

Anyways, giving and offerings as i showed you in the NT has a common word.. GIFTs. So, conversely, you're saying

Contributions can come in form of giving but not gifts.

There's a purpose for offering and there's purpose for contribution or giving.

There's a purpose for offering gifts and there's purpose for contribution or giving gifts.

doesn't make sense to me meeeehn!

there is another word "Collection", it appeared once in the NT, and the greek is Logia, which means money gathered for the relief of the poor, you'd see that in 1 Corinthians 16:1, which brings me to the latter part of my question, for we know what you term contribution or collection was not gathered for the relief of the poor... except the Pastor said it is initially.

If you think contributions are offerings as used by some translations, then you and those translations can argue with HEBREWS 10:5 - 8.

4 - Gifts, collections and offerings as used in the new testament. ...we have to follow the context.

Hilarious

Plus,

2 Corinthian 11:8 doesn't mean Paul, the Apostle put gun in the head of people to collect stuff from them.

stay focused now!

It's best understood to mean I collected from them to give to those in need among the church of God, not for my personal purpose.....my paraphrase

hahahahahahahah...Go read that place again. Other Christians (probably Macedonia) gave monies to Paul, so that he can work among the Corinthians, they provided his needs (Pocket money, shaving money, okada money, Amala ati ewedu dinner, Tax money, etc).... and it was for his personal purpose.. go read verse 9

You have to go to where Paul collected the so called "offerings" and reconcile it with where he delivered it.

What was it is when he collected it and what was it when delivered?

let me help you call backup... hello Eastbay, wanna attempt this?

Why did Paul Collect and Delivered an Offering for the Jerusalem Church?
What compelled Paul to raise funds among his gentile converts for the poor in Jerusalem?

Note: Paul wrote, that his offering up of the gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost... The word offer there means, gift, ....a present!

so, then i ask, If tihes are done away with, what about offerings?

Joagbaje:
There are 2 kinds of tithes . The annual tithes is taken to the house of God . It is given through the Levites



Nehemiah 10:38 (KJV)
And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

The second one is the one used as feast every 3 years

Are u sure there are two types of tithing
Analysis of Tithe
Reason: Deut 10.:8-9
Num 18:21-23
Source and mode: Lev. 27: 30-34
Type 1: Deut 14: 22-27
Type 2: Deut 14: 28-29
Type 3: 2Chron 31:4-19; Neh 13: 4-13
Type 4: Num. 18: 25-32; Neh. 10:37-39
Prayer: Deut 26:12-15

Note: Malachi was not sent to christians, but to the Jewish Nation.
Modern tithe is othing but a commandment of men ( Matt 15:8-9; Mal. 1:1; 2:8; 3:6-12;4:4)

Peritus:
I desire that you might be filled with the knowledge of His will, in wisdom and spiritual understanding.
My issue is not on tithing but eating and doing whatever you soul lusteth for. You forgot that we are no longer practicing old testament. Christ CHANGED the old mode of worship and ways of reverencing God. Now we worship in truth and in Spirit (Jn 4:23). If you walk in the Spirit, you shall not obey the works of flesh and what it lusts for (Gal 5:16). Gluttony and drunkenness are part of works of flesh.

The time has come when those who will worship the father will worship Him in spirit and in truth
Note Rom16:16
I love your comment bro

Joagbaje:


It's a simple parallel. The verse made it clear that as the Levites get welfare from tithes and offerings same goes for ministers.

New Testament pattern for Contribution
Mode: Acts 4: 34-37
Time: 1 Cor.16:1-2
capacity: 2 Cor. 8:12; 9:6-7
Duty: Matt. 5:20
Gal.6:6
Evangelist' examples of hard work: Acts 20:33-35, 1Thess. 2:9 2Thess. 3:8-9