malvisguy212:
what issue is that ? Do you think God want us to stone adulterous to death ? Buried alive? Don't allowed religion turn you into a monster, their are civil law that guide us to live in peace with one another, the sharia law is not a civil law, the sharia law is a religious law.

Romans 3:31, “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid

Your answer seems like a no to me. You're claiming that God has given us no right as humans to punish someone when they've done something wrong ? Yes or no ?

I think it should be the goal of every Nigerian to be tolerant reguardless of their religious beliefs. Thus Muslims and Mosques should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.... This is also why i propose if a mosque is built, that two night clubs be opened next door to the mosque that way we make sure we are promoting the tolerance from within the mosque... Hell one of the clubs can be a strip club and we can call it "The Turban Cowboy" the other club can be a topless joint and be called the "You Mecca Me Hot".... while we are at it, who wants to open up a bucher shop that specializes in pork products? Get it to be a joint venture with a restaurant to serve your products and call it "Iraq of Ribs"..... but why stop there? theres gotta be room for a lingerie store, we will call "Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret" with sexy mannequins in all the windows showing it all!!! There might even be room for a Liquor store, hows "Morehammered" sound!?! I like it, and all of this would encourage Muslims to demonstrate the same tolerance they demand of us! Its a Win Win

yetunsbay:
abi he shld meet his wife with concubine on his matrimonial bed

lol

malvisguy212:
God promised to establish a new covenant of Grace in the person of Jesus christ :

Jeremiah 31:31–34
31 “The days are coming,” declares the
Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with
the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their
neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

In the old covenant, God is love and His love required justice, God punished everyone for the measure of their sins, but in this new covenant, God say He will remember their sin NO more only is they ask for forgiveness. This promised was fullfiled when Jesus came .

Hebrews 9:15
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator
of a new covenant, that those who are
called may receive the promised
eternal inheritance —now that he has
died as a ransom to set them free from
the sins committed under the first
covenant.

The laws and religious ritual you muslims are following are not reality they are a shadow of things to comes, and Jesus has already come and fullfiled it. The Law forestshadow Jesus, you do not need signpost AFTER you have arrived your DESTINATION. The law cannot make you perfect ONLY JESUS CAN. We are not following the latter of the Law, why ? Because the latter killed but the spirit give life.

What's all these bs?. Covenant is not Law.

YourMain:


Your answer seems like a no to me. You're claiming that God has given us no right as humans to punish someone when they've done something wrong ? Yes or no ?

you are mixing the moral law of God and our civil law.

YourMain:


Well technically Jesus died to save our sins not Gods.

I just think it's a bit weird that God died. So the three days that It took Jesus to rise up to heaven who had control of the world ? Why didn't everything just collapse ? And it's weird how "ordinary" Jesus was. He was another complete human like ourselves. The Almighty used the bathroom

Your questions are thought provoking. I can however answer the part where you ask why God would become man. Well as a lay Catholic I can say in simple terms that it would be easier for you if you would learn these Christian basics: original justice, original sin/ancestral sin, sanctifying grace etc. The Christian teaching is that Adam and Eve were created perfect but rebelled against God thus depriving themselves of their original justice and ending human friendship with God. To restore the original justice of man, the Son had to become like a second Adam so that man could once again be filled with sanctifying grace. I will expand with the teachings of the doctors of the Church when I get time. Meanwhile if you have any questions, objections etc feel free to fire away.

And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Papist:

Your questions are thought provoking. I can however answer the part where you ask why God would become man. Well as a lay Catholic I can say in simple terms that it would be easier for you if you would learn these Christian basics: original justice, original sin/ancestral sin, sanctifying grace etc. The Christian teaching is that Adam and Eve were created perfect but rebelled against God thus depriving themselves of their original justice and ending human friendship with God. To restore the original justice of man, the Son had to become like a second Adam so that man could once again be filled with sanctifying grace. I will expand with the teachings of the doctors of the Church when I get time. Meanwhile if you have any questions, objections etc feel free to fire away.

Mhm I get what you're saying. My problem is if Adam and Eve were created perfect then how could they have sinned to begin with ? Unless God knew they going to sin and actually wanted them to do it. ( obviously God is the all knowing ). So what was the essence of killing yourself to bring back the original justice you wanted gone in the first place ? If you get my point.

And when you say ending all friendship with God, does that mean everyone before the time of Jesus is going to hell ? Good or bad ?

No offence it sounds very very ridiculous that someone died for our sins. Does that mean I can do whatever I want now knowing that technically someone has already died for my sins so I'm all good ?

Thank you. For answering my questions

malvisguy212:
you are mixing the moral law of God and our civil law.

No I'm not. The bible asks you to punish your child when they do wrong. Even by beating. But your child is a human that has sinned and so are you. Where is the " let who without sin cast the stone first" coming in here ?

YourMain:


No I'm not. The bible asks you to punish your child when they do wrong. Even by beating. But your child is a human that has sinned and so are you. Where is the " let who without sin cast the stone first" coming in here ?

I admire your mind frame sis, you have patience. Please continue a lot of the things you're inquisitive about are those I wanna understand. You dig



Well anyway kontinue pls

YourMain:


No I'm not. The bible asks you to punish your child when they do wrong. Even by beating. But your child is a human that has sinned and so are you. Where is the " let who without sin cast the stone first" coming in here ?

A child is being disciplined by their elderly. The point they can't get over is shria law. The beheading of an adulterous is often misunderstood. The teaching is "It is BETTER for you to sacrifice YOURSELF THAN meet your Lord after adultery." If this Law was in place a lot of homes would be saved. It is a voluntary act and no Man doesn't Sentence you to death (unless said man and four other sane men witnessed the act of adultery(sex)) you sentence yourself to death. As Ibrahim (A.S) would have done...


But back to topic so I can't condemn a pedo because I steal? Come on now. Religion should be based on wisdom. That's why I'm so attracted to ISLAM.

YourMain:


No I'm not. The bible asks you to punish your child when they do wrong. Even by beating. But your child is a human that has sinned and so are you. Where is the " let who without sin cast the stone first" coming in here ?

spear not the rod meaning you must teach your child good moral behavior, use your common sense, I cannot write a 2HD on a 3HD screen. Their are Law in place to dealt with crime,everyone knows the measure of this crime. any parents who commit the same sin their children commit ,they wast no time in condemning
Their children, they are hypocrites.

Biblical speaking, Jesus was dealing with hypocrites who hide their sins but are in a hurry to condemned others. ‘Do not commit adultery,’ do you commit adultery?” . In other words, no person is qualified to call attention to another’s sin when that individual is in the ongoing practice of the same sin. Again, as Jesus previously declared, “Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye” (Matthew 7:5).

malvisguy212:
spear not the rod meaning you must teach your child good moral behavior, use your common sense, I cannot write a 2HD on a 3HD screen. Their are Law in place to dealt with crime,everyone knows the measure of this crime. any parents who commit the same sin their children commit ,they wast no time in condemning
Their children, they are hypocrites.

Biblical speaking, Jesus was dealing with hypocrites who hide their sins but are in a hurry to condemned others. ‘Do not commit adultery,’ do you commit adultery?” . In other words, no person is qualified to call attention to another’s sin when that individual is in the ongoing practice of the same sin. Again, as Jesus previously declared, “Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother’s eye” (Matthew 7:5).

So you mean to tell me, every single person in Jesus' time, was an aldutress ? Wow.

Lol obviously it's good moral behaviour to punish a aldutress as well no ? Why didn't Jesus also tell us to "let those without sin cast the stone first" when it came to every other sin. I'm sure a lot parents have lied in their lifetime, they probably still tell white lies here and there, and I'm sure they don't ask forgiveness for every lie. So why are they to spare not the rod then when you lie ? They are a sinner, you are a sinner. It's the exact same sin.

Nubian113:


A child is being disciplined by their elderly. The point they can't get over is shria law. The beheading of an adulterous is often misunderstood. The teaching is "It is BETTER for you to sacrifice YOURSELF THAN meet your Lord after adultery." If this Law was in place a lot of homes would be saved. It is a voluntary act and no Man doesn't Sentence you to death (unless said man and four other sane men witnessed the act of adultery(sex)) you sentence yourself to death. As Ibrahim (A.S) would have done...


But back to topic so I can't condemn a pedo because I steal? Come on now. Religion should be based on wisdom. That's why I'm so attracted to ISLAM.

Lol. I agree! Religion should be based on wisdom. It sounds so so so ridiculous.

Exactly! Clearly the point Jesus was trying to make wasn't that we as humans cannot input a law whereby we can punish wrongdoings.

YourMain:


So you mean to tell me, every single person in Jesus' time, was an aldutress ? Wow.

Lol obviously it's good moral behaviour to punish a aldutress as well no ? Why didn't Jesus also tell us to "let those without sin cast the stone first" when it came to every other sin. I'm sure a lot parents have lied in their lifetime, they probably still tell white lies here and there, and I'm sure they don't ask forgiveness for every lie. So why are they to spare not the rod then when you lie ? They are a sinner, you are a sinner. It's the exact same sin.

who was the woman accusers ?

Luke 11:46
"Woe to you as well, experts in the law!"
He replied. "You weigh men down with
heavy burdens, but you yourselves will
not lift a finger to lighten their load.

YourMain:


Mhm I get what you're saying. My problem is if Adam and Eve were created perfect then how could they have sinned to begin with ? Unless God knew they going to sin and actually wanted them to do it. ( obviously God is the all knowing ). So what was the essence of killing yourself to bring back the original justice you wanted gone in the first place ? If you get my point.

And when you say ending all friendship with God, does that mean everyone before the time of Jesus is going to hell ? Good or bad ?

No offence it sounds very very ridiculous that someone died for our sins. Does that mean I can do whatever I want now knowing that technically someone has already died for my sins so I'm all good ?

Thank you. For answering my questions

Adam and Eve were created perfect but chose to disobey God just as Satan and his fallen angels freely chose disobedience. God in the Christian teaching does not impose himself on humanity but gives man the freedom to obey or reject him so God intended for man to be perfect. As those who died before Christ or those who die without being Christians through no fault of theirs, their salvation is up to God. That is my layman's understanding. As for the reason why Christ became Man, died and resurrected I'll quote a small part from the Cathechism of the Catholic Church:

Sick, our nature demanded to be
healed; fallen, to be raised up; dead, to
rise again. We had lost the possession
of the good; it was necessary for it to
be given back to us. Closed in the
darkness, it was necessary to bring us
the light; captives, we awaited a Savior;
prisoners, help; slaves, a liberator. Are
these things minor or insignificant? Did
they not move God to descend to
human nature and visit it, since
humanity was in so miserable and
unhappy a state? 71

Papist:

Adam and Eve were created perfect but chose to disobey God just as Satan and his fallen angels freely chose disobedience. God in the Christian teaching does not impose himself on humanity but gives man the freedom to obey or reject him so God intended for man to be perfect. As those who died before Christ or those who die without being Christians through no fault of theirs, their salvation is up to God. That is my layman's understanding. As for the reason why Christ became Man, died and resurrected I'll quote a small part from the Cathechism of the Catholic Church:

Sick, our nature demanded to be
healed; fallen, to be raised up; dead, to
rise again. We had lost the possession
of the good; it was necessary for it to
be given back to us. Closed in the
darkness, it was necessary to bring us
the light; captives, we awaited a Savior;
prisoners, help; slaves, a liberator. Are
these things minor or insignificant? Did
they not move God to descend to
human nature and visit it, since
humanity was in so miserable and
unhappy a state? 71

So does that mean we do things without Gods knowledge ? God knows we're going to sin. God knew Adam and Eve would sin. God wanted them to sin, if he didn't they wouldn't do it. God knows every time we are going to sin and he can stop it. Doesn't that sound more sensible than killing yourself to die for sins ? The fact that we're given free will proves that God doesn't want us to be perfect. If he did he would have created us perfect. And in that case would never have had to die.

Well in that case will God descended in any time soon ? With the unhappy state of the world. Or why hasn't God come around during World War One or World War Two ? Or the amount of children dying in those poor countries ? Are we not unhappy enough for God no ?

malvisguy212:
who was the woman accusers ?

Luke 11:46
"Woe to you as well, experts in the law!"
He replied. "You weigh men down with
heavy burdens, but you yourselves will
not lift a finger to lighten their load.

Lol. Obviously as humans were allowed to punish someone according to their crime as long as it's just.

malvisguy212:
who was the woman accusers ?

Luke 11:46
"Woe to you as well, experts in the law!"
He replied. "You weigh men down with
heavy burdens, but you yourselves will
not lift a finger to lighten their load.

lol..with you own sense of reasoning now..which do you prefer...adultery and all other crimes going unpunished hence resulting to "illegal" children,spreading of std's,and increasing the rate of abortion--as we see in our world today---and also inciting the youth to indulge in this act since no one is punishing does who indulge in them.

That is allowing this criminals to enjoy the so called GRACE and allow such evil to flourish

Or punishing them and using them as scape goats to the community and hence reducing "illegal" children,reducing the rate of abortion,and reducing the spread of std's

Nubian113:



But back to topic so I can't condemn a pedo because I steal? Come on now. Religion should be based on wisdom. That's why I'm so attracted to ISLAM.

You honestly think there is any wisdom in islam?

YourMain:


Lol. I agree! Religion should be based on wisdom. It sounds so so so ridiculous.

Exactly! Clearly the point Jesus was trying to make wasn't that we as humans cannot input a law whereby we can punish wrongdoings.

malvisguy212 doesnt understand @underlined.

Annunaki:


You honestly think there is any wisdom in islam?

So much so it sounds crazy


glad_tidings_2_the_strangers

this issue is serious.... Pls why not make peace

Nubian113:


So much so it sounds crazy


glad_tidings_2_the_strangers

I think you need to see a shrink












Or better still you need deliverance

Annunaki:


You honestly think there is any wisdom in islam?

la illaha illa Lahu Muhammad rosullulah (SAW)

Annunaki:


I think you need to see a shrink












Or better still you need deliverance

Ok. And you need basic respect and manners. Good luck on your life's journey on finding them. Better yet ask J

I take refuge from your kind. Adulilaaahi Mina shaytaaan a-rajiiiiiiiiim.

Nubian113:


So much so it sounds crazy


glad_tidings_2_the_strangers

what is the glad tiding muhammed bring ? Their is NO verse in the quran that promote unconditional love for both the believers and the unbelievers , if their is any, I challenge any muslims to bring forth it, the quran say allah hate sinners . In the bible, God first love us before He send his only son to die for us, it is the lust of the flesh that is attracting you not the word of God, the plan of salvation islam, deny it, can you boasts of your holiness is sufficient to make heaven ? How is the remission of sin done in islam ? I created a thread for this and the muslims complained that the thread be close, let me just give you some here.

Surah 4:30-31, Whoso doeth that
(evil deeds) through aggression and
injustice, We shall cast him into Fire,
and that is ever easy for Allah. If ye
AVOID THE GREAT (THINGS) WHICH YE ARE FORBIDDEN, We will remit from you
your evil deeds and make you enter at
a noble gate.

Satanic deception. This clearly implies that Allah will only send you to hell for great sins. Small sins, like lusting over a belly dancer will be ignored, you just have to avoid the great sin .

Koran, Sura 6:120, Forsake the
outwardness of sin and the inwardness
thereof. Lo! those who garner sin will
be awarded that which they have
earned.

So there is Hell to pay for great sins, but
the small sins will be overlooked if the
great ones are not committed. We also
see that sin is to be forsaken, is this the glad tiding you are talking about ?

Surah 72:21: Say, “I possess no
power to harm you, nor to guide
you.” (Khalifa)

Do you really understand the gravity of
Muhammad’s statement when he said, “I possess no power to guide you” or “to
bring you to the Right Path”? Is it not a
prophet’s duty to guide the congregation of God to the “Right Path”? Can you now depend on this man to guide you to salvation? Would it be wise for you to do so?

YourMain:


Sigh. Okay.

You just acted in a responsible way.Give ur life to christ today and he will redeem your soul from hell.

Nubian113:


Ok. And you need basic respect and manners. Good luck on your life's journey on finding them. Better yet ask J

I take refuge from your kind. Adulilaaahi Mina shaytaaan a-rajiiiiiiiiim.

God has already find us, isn't it wonderful that God the son incarnate in the flesh just to have a special relationship with His creatures ? Christianity is not a religion, is a way of life, the disciples never use the word christians to call their self, why ? Because the substance is not in the word, is in the heart. It was the pagan who first call the apostles christians because the apostles do not followed the commercial world of the pagan, what is the purpose of creating humans and then set up a religion to find God ? Even your parents will not do this after given birth to you,set up a pattern for you to follow or hate you.

Islam claims they believe in Jesus, can you go to the mosque and call the name of Jesus?

Surah 3:55: Behold! God said: “O
Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee
to Myself and clear thee of the
falsehoods of those who blaspheme; I
will make those who follow thee
SUPERIOR to those who reject faith,
to the Day of Resurrection.” (Yusuf
Ali, Original 1938)

Those who follow Jesus are Christians.
And the Qur’an states very clearly that
they will be made superior until “the
Day of Resurrection.” The Day of
Resurrection or Qiyamah will occur at
the time of the end. This means that,
according to the Qur’an, even at this very moment true Christians are in an exulted position as far their worship is
concerned. If Christians are made
superior until the Day of Resurrection
as the Qur’an itself testifies, where do
you think will be their final destination?

yetunsbay:
la illaha illa Lahu Muhammad rosullulah (SAW)

who is Allah debating here ? No doubt is the 360 idols in kabba, there is no gods but allah and muhammed is his prophet. Muhammed is the only prophet of allah.

AN OPEN LETTER TO SINCERE MUSLIMS
If you strongly believe that Muhammad
can guide you to gain eternal salvation,
please consider the following confessions of Muhammad in the Qur’an:

Surah 46:9: “Say: I am not the first of
the apostles, and I do not know
what will be done with me or with
you: I do not follow anything but that
which is revealed to me, and I am
nothing but a plain warner.” (Shakir)

Surah 6:50: (Muhammad), tell them,
“I do not claim to have all the
treasures of God in my hands, nor to
know the unseen, nor do I claim to
be an angel. I follow only what is
revealed to me (from God).” Say to
them, “Are the blind and the seeing
equal?” Why then do you not think?
(Sarwar)

Surah 7:188: Say: “I have no power
over any good or harm to myself
except as Allah wills. If I had
knowledge of the unseen, I should
have multiplied all good, and no
evil could have touched me: I am
only a Warner, and a bringer of glad
tidings to those who have Faith (in
Allah).”

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23,
Number 459:
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle
used to invoke (Allah): “(O Allah) I
seek refuge with you from the
punishment in the grave and from
the punishment in the HELL FIRE and
from the afflictions of life and
death, and the afflictions of Al-
Masih Ad-Dajjal.”

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23,
Number 455:
Narrated By Asma’ bint Abi Bakr:
Allah’s Apostle once stood up
delivering a sermon and mentioned
the trial which people will face in the
grave. When he mentioned that, the
Muslims started shouting loudly.

Please reflect on the assurance that
Muhammad gave his early followers.
Muhammad left them with a very gloomy future threatening over them. Although Muhammad was unsure of the future, he was certain about one thing. The destiny of all Muslims – including yours.

Surah 19:71: It is the inevitable
decree of your Lord that every one
of you will be taken to Hell. (Sarwar)

Dear Muslims this is the destination that Allah and Muhammad have left for you.

Now consider the assurance that Jesus
gave his disciples:

John 5:24: Most assuredly, I say to
you, he who hears my word and
believes in Him who sent me has
everlasting life, and shall not come
into judgment, but has passed from
death into life.

John 14:6: Jesus said to him: “I am
the way and the truth and the life. No
one comes to the Father except
through me.

John 11:25: Jesus said to her: “I am
the resurrection and the life. He that
exercises faith in me, even though he
dies, will come to life.

John 6:40: For this is the will of my
Father, that everyone that beholds
the Son and exercises faith in him
should have everlasting life, and I will
resurrect him at the last day.”

Matthew 11:28: Come to me, all you
who are heavy burden and loaded down, and
I will give you rest.

Nubian113:


So much so it sounds crazy


glad_tidings_2_the_strangers

The 'wisdom' is evidenced in 1,400 years of chaos and violence which has ceased to end to this day since the inception of islam. Satan would really be proud of mohamed's legacy.

Bosch10:
You just acted in a responsible way.Give ur life to christ today and he will redeem your soul from hell.

Lool really ?

But he gave his life to Christ too and he's very rude...