@osisi, u talk to muslims as if u are talking to christians who accept God as a mystery and believe god was beaten by the pilates and slapped hahaha, muslims ain't like that-whatever we do is an injunction from God in the Quran, unlike christmas, christianity, jesus birthday date, going to church and dancing in church which were never found in the bible.

The Quran was memorized by a whooping number of muslims and written as well on wood. If a goat should eat it there are still other copies written down and memorized, the Quran was compiled together in one plank during umar's caliphate, umar was a friend and companion of the Prophet so whoever claims it was 100 or 300 years after the death of the Prophet should fool himself.

@ZAINABABY,

I pity you. Didn't you know you are the one who should have a second thought? Go home, find a sunless shade and ponder on all that Abuzola have and the rest have been saying. Na tru he don talk, babe.

Abuzola:

The Quran was memorized by a whooping number of muslims and written as well on wood. If a goat should eat it there are still other copies written down and memorized, the Quran was compiled together in one plank during umar's caliphate, umar was a friend and companion of the Prophet so whoever claims it was 100 or 300 years after the death of the Prophet should fool himself.

That is a lie
why then did the 3rd Caliph standadrdize the Koran to his liking and ordered all others to be burnt and people killed
Where is the verse on stoning of adulterers and adulteresses?
It got lost that's why it's not in today's Koran

I've been here long enough to know that every full moon a lunatic Muslim comes out to dance naked in the square and he quickly disappears when the season is over.

so true

see this for a start

Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 514, p. 482; book 61

Narrated Umar bin Al-Khattab:

I heard Hisham bin Hakim reciting Surat Al-Furqan during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle and I listen to his recitation and noticed that[b] he recited in several different ways which Allah's Apostle had not taught me. I was about to jump over him during his prayer , but I controlled my temper [/b] and when he had completed his prayer, I put his upper garment around his neck and seized him by it and said, "Who taught you this Surat which I heard you reciting ?" He replied, "Allah's Apostle taught it to me". I said, "You have told a lie, for Allah's Apostle taught it to me in a different way from yours". So I dragged him to Allah's Apostle and said, "I heard this person reciting Surat Al-Furqan in a way which you haven't taught me!". On that Allah's Apostle said, "Release him (Umar) recite, O Hisham!" Then he recited in the same way I heard him reciting. Then Allah's Apostle said, "It was revealed in this way", and added, "Recite, O Umar", I recited it as he had taught me. Allah's Apostle then said, "It was revealed in this way. This Qur'an has been revealed to be recited in seven different ways, so recite of it whichever is easier for you."

Bukhuri: vol. 4, hadith 682, book 56

Narrated Ibn Mas'ud:

I heard a person reciting a (Quranic) Verse in a certain way, and I had heard the Prophet reciting the same Verse in a different way. So I took him to the Prophet and informed him of that but I noticed the sign of disapproval on his face, and then he said, "BOTH OF YOU ARE CORRECT, so don't differ, for the nations before you differed, so they were destroyed."

The above hadiths tell us that Mohammed himself was allowed variations in the Koran since he didn't even know which one was correct.
Don't tell me recitation means prononciation only.A word can mean several things when pronounced differently.
See the first hadith when a man supposedly in prayer was about to jump over and strangle another Muslim man because he recited something wrong and we wonder why Muslims have no problems slaughtering people at will?

where did abuzola go?

Anybody interested in the origin of the Koran should read this.

Quran we have in our midst today did not originate in the lifetime of Muhammad, as Muslims want us believe. It existed in different forms in different regions of the Islamic empire before Caliph Uthman established the standardized form of Quran while consigning other versions to the flames. Quran we have now came from Thabit who relied on sources like date palms to collect his material for quran he compiled. The quran which was produced from the memories of longtime companions of Muhammad were burnt down. The Quran we got is just one of the many different versions of it that existed twenty years after the death of Muhammad. If we analyze the present day Quran we find it is an amalgamation of stories derived from Judaic, Christian, apocryphal, Zoroastrian and other sources.



Existence of different versions in different places within twenty after Muhammad’s death implies that[b] there had been no singular revelation to start with. It also demystifies the Muslims’ assertion that Quran was standardized by Muhammad himself[/b]. The need for burning every copy except one shows that the copies burnt were giving a different or even contradictory message from the quran we got.

We do not have the exact copy of Gabriel’s message to Muhammad. Joseph Smith, who claimed that he got his Book of Mormon through Angel Moroni did a better job in this respect in preserving the text he claimed he got.





http://kgpaul.com/files/Quran_is_not_the_Word_of_God.htm

Osisisisisi, women and their conspiracy- viewers with this refutation u will agree with me that osisi is either sick or crazy and come to ur conclusion thats how christianity is, born into brainwash and compel to believe it - here we go

@$osisi: permit me 2say its a pity my machine(fone) is kinda faulty @a tym wen i nid it most coz i do most of my browsin on ma E90 fone. Dere4, i myt nt b able 2ansa u wt references bt blv me, i'l fid u wt d truth 2morow Insha Allah.
Meanwhile, i shd blv i 1c said it either on dis thread or somwhere else d@ 4d sake of argument, a man wrote d Qur'an. Nw compare d authenticity of d bk written (or brought) by 1 (unlettered) man wt d bk written by some group of companies. Pls if u'l b sincere, open ur eyes n c d lyt; dis same bk, single handedly written by 1man was preservd n stil stood d sands of tym wen d bk written by many had 2b revised by unknown offsprings dereby avin contrasts. Ow many prophecies of d Qur'an has com 2past? Ow many prophecies of d bible has com 2past? Ever heard of d miracles contained in d Qur'an? Eva heard of d mathematical miracle? Evn if Muhammad wrote d bk (as u claimd), E tried,@list e showd us d lyt. W@ has paul done 4u if nt makin u lk 4ways 2defend or rescue a weak storybk? Think!

Osisi claim no verse in the Quran order stoning of adulterators. Quran 4:16 'And two persons (man and woman) among you who commits illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent and do righteous deeds, leave them alone. Surely Allah is Ever All forgiving, most merciful.' hadith 805 vol. 8 of sahih bukhari explained this verse. Narrated jabir bin Abdullah Al ansari: A man from the tribe of bani aslam came to the Prophet and informed him that he had committed sexual intercourse and he bore witness four thmes against himself, the Prophet ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person'

Again u claim the Quran wasn't revealed in 7 ways. How about this
Hadith 1332 of sahih bukhari: from ibn abbas that Allah's Apostle said,'Gabriel read the Quran to me in one way and i continued asking him to read it in different ways till he read it in seven different ways'

Strong message to you from God. Quran 69:38-52 ' so i swear by whatever you see and whatever you see not. That is verily, the word of an honoured Messenger which he has brought from Allah. It is not the word of a poet, little is that you believe. Nor is it the word of a soothsayer, little is that you remember. This is the revealation sent down from the Lord of all that exist. And if Muhammad had forged a false saying concernhng Us (Allah). We surely would have seized him with power and might. And then We certainly would have cut his life artery. And non of you could have witheld Us from punishing him, And verily this Quran is a reminder for the pious. And verily We know that there are some among you that deny the Quran. And indeed this Quran will be an anguish for the disbelievers on the day of Resurrection, And verily this Quran is an absolute truth with certainty. Glorify the name of your Lord the Most High.

@ZAINABABY; 4d 1st tym in my opinion, u made sense. Truly, d Allah i worsip does nt ansa prayas. I min i askd 4long lyf bt E did nt gv me, E only gav me d opportunity 2always c a new dy. I'm rily rily poor. I dnt kno if Jesus cld com 2my aid. I av a dota, a wife, a well paid job, a home(nt house), a car, i use Nokia E90. I'm in2 In4mation Technology, i av many professional certifica8s 2mention bt a few yt dis Allah promise 2multiply my blsgs if only i am thankful 2him, (i'm nt braggin, can u tel me w@ u're worth?) Alhamdulilahi
Pls tel me w@ else ur god ll gv me? Withdraw evrytin frm me(Y? E no go 1play hide n seek 4inside black maria nw). I challenge ur god 2show me d way if e's truthful. If u're mislead, its coz of ur disobedience 2my Allah n E'l pass His judgement ova u whr ur lord ll nt b able 2 intercid.
I nw realize ow blsd u're. As 4me i cnt shout in vain. I dnt wnt 2sell bible 2make money. It'l also sweet u d@ i'm priviledged 2 marry 4 2avoid xtra-marital affairs. Ow kind is ur lord o I'm blsd

Can u even imagine, they claim the old testament as grace and old school for former generation, yet their pastor collect tithe which was ordered in the old testament and not new testament. U can see is just brainwashing and cynical

Can sombdy rid Qur'an 69:38-52 of Abuzola's post again? Pls is dere any confirmin statement lyk d@ in d bible? Instead john said "But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" John 20:31.
Abuzola, may Allah(SWT) replenish ur knowledge. Evn if u're sittin, may ur runnin enemies neva mit u. May Allah reward u well in dis world n best wt Al-janat in d hereafter, Amin!!!

Wt d little knowledge i'm bestowed wt, if i shd start Church biz 2dy, Redeem n d likes ll b beggin me. Bt i'l nt run after worldly life. Allah is sufficient 4me. Qur'an 42:19-20, 65:3-4.

Wt d little knowledge i'm bestowed wt, if i shd start Church biz 2dy, Redeem n d likes ll b beggin me. Bt i'l nt run after worldly life. Allah is sufficient 4me. Qur'an 42:19-20, 65:3-4.

Abuzola:

The Quran was memorized by a whooping number of muslims and written as well on wood. If a goat should eat it there are still other copies written down and memorized, the Quran was compiled together in one plank during umar's caliphate, umar was a friend and companion of the Prophet so whoever claims it was 100 or 300 years after the death of the Prophet should fool himself.

But I thought an angel handed the koran to an illiterate mohammed? is that not the popular story?

So GOD or angel wrote the Quran, right ? at times u talk like drunkard

thou pathetic retard . . . . . . , who appeared to mohammed and commanded him to read?

Abuzola:

Osisi claim no verse in the Quran order stoning of adulterators. Quran 4:16 'And two persons (man and woman) among you who commits illegal sexual intercourse, hurt them both. And if they repent and do righteous deeds, leave them alone. Surely Allah is Ever All forgiving, most merciful.' hadith 805 vol. 8 of sahih bukhari explained this verse. Narrated jabir bin Abdullah Al ansari: A man from the tribe of bani aslam came to the Prophet and informed him that he had committed sexual intercourse and he bore witness four thmes against himself, the Prophet ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person'

You are a bloody liar just like your allah.
Where in that verse does it talk about stoning adulterers?
There is no place the Koran talks about stoning adulterers[/b]perhaps you don't know why

16 And [b]as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful. 

where again do you see stoning to death?
is it possible for the stoning victims to amend their ways after being stoned to death ?
Liar liar

noetic2:

But I thought an angel handed the koran to an illiterate mohammed? is that not the popular story?

Confusion galore
an angel handed the Koran over
The next breathe,people memorized and wrote down the Koran
The next story,the Koran was dictated to people who wrote it on parchments.

Abuzola:

Again u claim the Quran wasn't revealed in 7 ways. How about this
Hadith 1332 of sahih bukhari: from ibn abbas that Allah's Apostle said,'Gabriel read the Quran to me in one way and i continued asking him to read it in different ways till he read it in seven different ways'

You are just proving my point
7different Korans
na you talk am

More on missing verses of the Koran


1 Allah sent Muhammad (saw) with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married persons, male and female, who commit adultery) and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle (saw) did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book', and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 8, p.539).

In the Qur'an as it stands today the only punishment prescribed for adulterers is a hundred stripes (Surah 24.2), no distinction being made between the married or unmarried state of each of the parties involved. Umar, however, clearly stated that Allah had originally revealed a passage prescribing rajam (stoning to death) for adulterers. From the original Arabic text of the narrative in the Sahih of Bukhari as quoted above it can be seen quite clearly that Umar was convinced that this passage was originally a part of the Qur'an text. The key words are wa anzala alayhil-kitaaba fakaana mimmaa anzalallaahu aayaatur-rajm, meaning literally, "And He sent down to him the Scripture (viz. the Qur'an), and part of what Allah sent down (therein) was the verse of stoning".

osisi's comment
so a man warned that the verse revealed about stoning might not make it to the Koran and he was right
chei!
and yet they stone people

2.  A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that it had been revealed in the Qur'an that ten clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful, then it was abrogated by five sucklings and Allah's Apostle (saw) died and before that time it was found in the Qur'an. (Sahih Muslim, Vol. 2, p.740).

osisi's comment

another verse that vamoosed from the revised standard Koran where allah says that a woman can have a man a grown man suck her breasts and it'll be unlawful for them to marry.
Muslim men made their male slaves suck their wives,that way they were somewhat assured that the slaves and the wives won't be doing any hanky pankies
NO wonder some Egyptian mullah proposed introduction of suckling palours to curb adultery and fornication
The religion of peace and love with ocassional suck suck


http://www.answering-islam.org/Gilchrist/Jam/chap4.html

There is a tradition from 'A'isha, the prophet's wife, that a certain chapter which now consists of 73 verses once contained no less than 200; and that when Uthman compiled the Qur'an, the missing verses could not be found. One of them was called the verse of Stoning, and is said to have contained the order to stone a man or woman who had committed adultery, This verse is said to have been part of the original Qur'an . Many early authorities say so, and what is very significant is that the first Caliphs punished adulterers by stoning; this is still the penalty prescribed in Muslim law-books, whereas the Qur'an (24:2) prescribed a hundred stripes." ("Islam" by A. Guillaume, p. 191).

@noetic2: u quote d Qur'an as if u're quotin ur bk. U're rily tryin, kip up d gd work. It ll b so rewardin if u cld try 2 corrects d errors in ur different version of d bible. D Qur'an remains a divine bk of no human revelation bt ws reveald 2man. W@ do we kno d bible 2b? A collection of books wt different stories lyk a season film where we av diff directors wt diff charactas takin d same role witout conformity n continuity. Dnt wori, u children ll rid anoda version of d bible. Dere's already old n new abi mayb dey ll rid a remix of both. Pls continue wt ur quest 4errors d@ re nt in d Qur'an. U myt 1dy c d truth den u'l b announcd d ultim8 man

You talk to people as if they are kid.
The punishment verse for fornicator is different of that of adulterators. Fornicators will be flog 100 stripes.
Quran 24:2 'The fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not pity withold you in their case, in a punishment prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment' and Quran 4:16 like i stated earlier is for adulterators who will be hurt by stoning and if they repent and swear not to do it again, then they will not be stoned to death. In regard to vol 8, hadith number 805 sahih bukhari

Hadith is the second source for islamic jurispendent. The hadith explain Quran and makes further explanation.
There is no place in the Quran where full ablution or how to bath janaba with condition or how to perform hajj or umra with guideline in the Quran, it is the hadith that pick the Quranic verse and elaborate. So you see what the hadith is.

Quran 2:106 'whatever verse do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring a better one or similar to it. Don't you know that Allah is able to do all things ?'

Allah challenge the christians. Quran 2:111 'And they say 'none shall enter paradise unless he be a jew or a christian' these are their own desires, say O Muhammad 'produce your proof if you are truthful' Quran 4:14 'And whosoever disobeys Allah and the Messenger and transgress His limits. He will cast him into the fire, to abide therein, and he shall have a disgraceful torment'

Abuzola:

@isowi- thats not error nor contradiction, u only posted a portion of a verse to agree with ur statement, if u know u are truthful why not write the full verse so that every one can read it, i bet no, it will spoil show. Lol

hmn. who is isowi cos av not seen a NLander with that name on this thread, if you mean me then you should say ilosiwaju, dont be scared. dont change the topic just yet. read my long post and give me an explanation of the verdicts there,a honest response to those islamic stuffs i posted could boost your profile  
mind u, for me,its not a xtian vs muslim thing. its a case of u having a log in your eye and yet-u know the rest, guess ur a bit of a biblicac scholar.
sheikh abuzola, over to u.