WesleyanA:

If nigeria had a better security and efficient police debt. kidnapping wouldn't be rampant.

Why is it only when there's an introduction of a higher demonination that it's always rampant?

WesleyanA:

i just don't believe there's anything as "blood money". if you don't know how someone became rich overnight, ask him or use reason and logic to find out how instead of settling to the idea that he practiced "rituals and witchcraft".

And what will you say to those who openly confess themselves that they've been spending bloodmoney? (pls dont give me the psychology/illusion shit)

Seun:

The kidnappings are because our people are:
- Gullible enough to believe that such rituals can make them rich.
- Heartless enough to actually commit murder for the sake of the expected prosperity.

Suppose a man goes through such a ritual and the money doesn't come in, do you think he will report the scam to the police?

And why do u think the number of people that practise ritualism continues to increase day by day? If they arent gaining riches from the rituals, wouldnt they have stopped long ago? Or are Nigerians that gullible to keep falling for the same prank?

Why is it only when there's an introduction of a higher demonination that it's always rampant?
it has always been rampant!. why don't you go to a country where there's efficient security measures and increase the money. see if kidnapping increases or not!.
when there is higher denomination or whatever, it really doesn't make any difference. it's not like this money has any value or whatnot. nigeria is still poor. those that kidnapp. who knows they will probably request a ransom from their victim's family and tell them not to inform the police.
that'll never happen in a country with efficient security. well even if it does, it's not as significant or rampant as it is in nigeria.

And what will you say to those who openly confess [b]themselves that they've been spending bloodmoney? (please don't give me the psychology/illusion rubbish)[/b]
people have always been confessing wrong testimony. that's not new. even when girls were being accused of witchcraft in the United States in the seventeenth century. they admitted to being witches when they really were not.
there are different reason for this
1. they were faced with the choice of confessing or death
2. they know that they get more attention than they got when they didn't call themselves witches
3 some don't even have anything going for them in life. they'll rather call themselves witches and die than live in an evil world.

And why do u think the number of people that practise ritualism continues to increase day by day? If they arent gaining riches from the rituals, wouldnt they have stopped long ago? Or are Nigerians that gullible to keep falling for the same prank?

what makes you think it's increasing. do you have proove?

let me ask you this question ---

why is it that it is the "third world" and "underdeveloped" countrieswhere poverty is prevalent that witchcraft is rampant in.
why aren't they rampant in developed countries.

the last time i heard of witchcraft where i live is during hallowen celebration and when they were holdning a memorial for the innocent souls that died in 1690's as a result of witchcraft hysteria!

If you don't know the meaning of a word, you ask!

Rampant: Occurring without restraint and frequently, widely, or menacingly.

Virtually everyday, someone gets kidnapped. But it becomes rampant when a higher currency denomination is introduced.

Other reasons you've given are just stupid. You talk based on stupid reports you've heard but I tell you all these based on what we see happening around us.

Tell me, who/what causes one to fall into temptations? (please don't give me your stupid baseless scientific/phylosophical theories).

goodguy:

If you don't know the meaning of a word, you ask!

Rampant: Occurring without restraint and frequently, widely, or menacingly.

Virtually everyday, someone gets kidnapped. But it becomes rampant when a higher denomination is introduced.

Other reasons you've given are just stupid. You talk based on reports you've heard but I tell you all these based on what we see happening around us.

Tell me, who/what causes one to fall into temptations? (please don't give me your stupid baseless scientific/phylosophical theories).

can you point to me exactly where i used the word "rampant" wrongly because i used it in several places in my last post.

who's talking based on report he/she heard. it's you the accusing finger should be pointed at because all of your facts are based on stuff your pastor says to you or movies you watch and what your friends tell you or what you just assume because you don't have any other explanation

see, i've got proove of almost everything i say. and i'll post facts about the 17th century hysteria after this post so you see for yourself. you can go to the grave in salem (pretty close to where i live) if you want more proove or read books about the salem witch trials. tons of info about it online for you.

what causes people to fall into temptations? don't use scientific/ philosophical theories?
now that's just dumb because if i ask you to tell me, you'll be quoting some baseless passages of some ancient old testamant in the bible.

and the reason the poorer countries tend to fall for the "witchcraft" idea is because they need something to blame for their misfortunes.
they'll say "i'm poor because witches did this to me" or " everyone else is poor and he has momey because he did blood money"
where your child gets kidnapped they'll say "a witch kidnapped him/her" instead of saying "we have a terribly bad security".

africans generally fall into the temptation of blaming supernatural forces for their misfortunes!!!1

"A small girl fell sick in 1692. Her “fitts”—convulsions, contortions, and outbursts of gibberish—baffled everyone. Other girls soon manifested the same symptoms. Their doctor could suggest but one cause. Witchcraft.
That grim diagnosis launched a Puritan inquisition that took 25 lives, filled prisons with innocent people, and frayed the soul of a Massachusetts community called Salem. "


when someone falls sick and some quack doctors we have in Nigeria don't know the cause, they'll say it's witchcraft.

see the similarity?!

look at these links:

http://school.discovery.com/schooladventures/salemwitchtrials/life/

http://school.discovery.com/schooladventures/salemwitchtrials/life/religion.html

http://school.discovery.com/schooladventures/salemwitchtrials/life/divisions.html

http://school.discovery.com/schooladventures/salemwitchtrials/life/children.html

WesleyanA:

can you point to me exactly where i used the word "rampant" wrongly because i used it in several places in my last post.

I asked, "Why is it only when there's an introduction of a higher demonination that it's always rampant?" Then you answered, "it has always been rampant!".

WesleyanA:

see, i've got proove of almost everything i say. and i'll post facts about the 17th century hysteria after this post so you see for yourself. you can go to the grave in salem (pretty close to where i live) if you want more proove or read books about the salem witch trials. tons of info about it online for you.

Listen to yourself. Facts from 17th centuries?? U've got issues, honestly.

WesleyanA:

what causes people to fall into temptations? don't use scientific/ philosophical theories?
now that's just dumb because if i ask you to tell me, you'll be quoting some baseless passages of some ancient old testamant in the bible.

Why don't u expect me to use the Bible? It's the WORD OF GOD. Scientific and phylosophical theories are just stupid facts based on assumptions by MAN.

WesleyanA:

and the reason the poorer countries tend to fall for the "witchcraft" idea is because they need something to blame for their misfortunes.
they'll say "i'm poor because witches did this to me" or " everyone else is poor and he has momey because he did blood money"
where your child gets kidnapped they'll say "a witch kidnapped him/her" instead of saying "we have a terribly bad security".

africans generally fall into the temptation of blaming supernatural forces for their misfortunes!!!

Well, if you must know, gone are the days when Africans used to blame poverty and sicknesses on witchcraft. Even poor men these days admit to the fact their poverty is their fault/fate. Sick people also know that it is due to some bacterial attacks that they are on the sick bed. You said this probably because of what you were made to believe by those people over there, or betterstill, your small sense.

goodguy:

Listen to yourself. Facts from 17th centuries?? U've got issues, honestly.
Why don't u expect me to use the Bible? It's the WORD OF GOD. Scientific and phylosophical theories are just stupid facts based on assumptions by MAN.

hahahahaha you make me laugh. why don't you go to church then and tell them to heal you when you fall sick why go to the hospital and recieve their man- made medications created as a result of their scientific research and labor!.

facts from the 17th century! yes that case was important because it is the LAST witchcraft trial in the history of the US that's when the US said goodbye to it. nigeria needs to do the same!

and they are facts! because they are true! read the links i provided!!!! and read it carefully because it kind of relates to why peopel believe in witches in africa now!

also read :[url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0152001018/102-8774268-0860145?v=glance [b]A Break with Charity by Ann Rinaldi [/url]

WesleyanA:

hahahahaha you make me laugh. why don't you go to church then and tell them to heal you when you fall sick why go to the hospital and recieve their man- made medications created as a result of their scientific research and labor!.

I thought we were talking about scientific theories based on assumptions. Why raise the issue of hospital/scientific research? Moreover, no one ever denied the fact that doctors aren't real. It's very obvious they are (for your info, i'm going to be a successful medical doctor). Even doctors tell you that they only try their best, only God has the power to heal. And who told you I don't go to church when I fall sick? Moreover, it's not everytime I have to go to anyone of them. Whenever I fall sick, I pray to my God and the sickness goes.

Good! u say you don't believe in God right? what do u have to say about "doctorally confirmed" sick people (permit me to use the word) who are taken to churches, prayed for and then get healed?

goodguy:

I thought we were talking about scientific theories based on assumptions. Why raise the issue of hospital/scientific research? Moreover, no one ever denied the fact that doctors aren't real. It's very obvious they are (for your info, i'm going to be a successful medical doctor). And who told you I don't go to church when I fall sick? Moreover, it's not everytime I have to go to anyone of them. Whenever I fall sick, I pray to my God and the sickness goes.

Good! u say you don't believe in God right? what do u have to say about "doctorally confirmed" sick people (permit me to use the word) who are taken to churches, prayed for and then get healed?

scientists just don't wake up one day and start researching for the cure of AIDS. they have to make theories first. then they try to proove the theory by doing experiments/research. . .

"you pray to your God and the sickness goes?", oh good for you. why do you want to be a "medical" doctor then. why not set up a church and perform healing miracles.
why do you go to the hospital when you fall sick then. just stay home and pray as simple as that right? yeah right1

i don't believe all those "blow and fall" miracles.
they are fake!!!! there's a thread like this somewhere where the govt. banned some "unverified miracles"

if they were true, nobody on earth will be suffering from HIV/AIDS right now. there's no cure for it! not even pastors even if they say they cured it it's a lie! they're just using it to promote the belief in evil spirits.

W.O.W!

You know what? Atimes, God uses humans to manifest his own greatness. I want to be a medical doctor because it's my vision. Before I treat any patient, I'll definitely pray to God to make the treatment process successful before I go ahead. If I pray and act with faith, my prayer will definitely be answered, hence, the success of the operation. You may say that some doctors don't believe in God, yet they carry out operations successfully. That is very true. But don't forget it's the same God that created everyone. Whether one believes in him or not does not change change the fact that the healing power belongs to HIM. He could use a doctor (an atheist) to heal a patient (a believer). All things are done in HIS own way to suit his purpose (don't ask me why). But my joy today is that the greatest (or one of the greatest) neurosurgeon in the world (Ben Carson) believes in God. He's my role model.

Talking of HIV/AIDS, people have actually given testimonies that they have been healed of it through prayers. They provide documents and test results of their state before the prayer and also show proves of their negativity to it after the prayers.

Concerning praying about a particular sickness, I wasnt talking of "blow and fall". There are pastors who perform miracles (in Jesus' name) without even pronouncing it. My dad was actually delivering the sermon one day (he's not a pastor). Rain was falling so heavily to extent that no one could hardly hear what he was saying due to the noise from the rain. Then infront of the whole congregation, he prayed that the rain should stop and immediately, it stopped. What do u have to say to that? "Blow and fall"? (Note: It was not that the rain was almost going to stop. As the the time he was praying, it was still raining heavily).

For now, I think the only thing that can convince you about the existence of God is when you fall sick and u're denied of every medical cure both home and abroad, then you're taken to a church before you're healed. Then you'll know God truely exists.

I KNEW YOUR DAD WAS A PASTOR!!!!!! you'll make a good one too. then you can be a "pastor doctor".

He's not a pastor!! Are u blind??

whatever

aawwww...c'mon! dont tell me u're giving up so easily. Don't you have anything to say to my previous post?

your dad's not a pastor i heard you. there's nothing there to argue about.

you said your dad commanded the rain to stop and it did? that's just pure coincidence. i've wished for a fire alarm before on the day of a test and it happened. does that mean i'm a prophet. most of the time however. it doesn't happen.
tell your dad to make the rain stop next time it rains and tell me what happens.

a lot of doctors do believe in God. and i don't have problems with it. it's actually healthy to belong to a religious group (as long as they don't go about accusing peopel fo witchcraft and evil ).
do you know that church goers tend to live longer than non-church goers?

@ seun r u 4 real?!!!
Aight someone asked if my opinion on d blood money is based on movies i think it waz seun but not sure. diz is 4 whoever said dat if u livin in nigeria then boi u need to get some real glasses and look around u.
of cuz it's not based on movies. if u can xplain everthing away aight so xplain diz to me wat waz goin on durin dat time dat guyz thingy started disapearing? if u got an answer 4 mii then i got another one 4 u wat about peeps who go to hearbalist and they do get healed? how iz dat possible? and mind u d hearbalist who heal them don't pray to God they call on there gods, evil spirit and witches if u understand yoruba then u will know how they say it. "iya won osoromoniga" cuz she ain't my mama!!!
how about them peeps who start talking about how they got iniciated into witchcraft durin delivearance. i'm not done wat about women who carry their pregnancy 4 10yrs? and lastly how is dat thing called umm can't rememember but it's where they do diz thing where if a guy sleeps with a gurl and if shes got diz thin on her the guy will die after drinkin water? oh and d peeps who tell ya "o ma ri" u will c and in another day or 2 bad stuff starts hapenning to d person and plz don't tell me it's a coincindence!!!

WesleyanA:

i don't believe all those "blow and fall" miracles.

if they were true, nobody on earth will be suffering from HIV/AIDS right now. there's no cure for it! not even pastors even if they say they cured it it's a lie! they're just using it to promote the belief in evil spirits.

I can testify to it dat church miracles r not fake cuz i've witnessed alot. i mean they can't evn walk when they got there but they waz on their 2feets b4 d program ended. i actually know peeps dat have been healed in d church and u wanna tell me how wat i saw with my own 2 eyez is fake? I've seen people give testimony about how they wre cured by aids and they showed them b4 they wre healed trust me therz is no way dat is fake!!! now i'm not saying there r no fake prophets out there but there r lots of good ones!!!!there r still people on earth dat suffer 4rm Aids because a lot ofpeeps r still ignorant. Sometimes u get healed by faith. u gotta have faith if not no matter how many people pray 4 d person notin is gon happen. i will show u some other proves but since u don't believe in God dat means u don't believe in d bible so there is no use givin them to u!
I find it funny dat ther r peeps who don't believ in God like o my gosh there is just too much goin on to xplain it  scientifically!!! I believ in God and he's da GREATEST!!!!!!!!!

WesleyanA:

you said your dad commanded the rain to stop and it did? that's just pure coincidence. i've wished for a fire alarm before on the day of a test and it happened. does that mean i'm a prophet. most of the time however. it doesn't happen.
tell your dad to make the rain stop next time it rains and tell me what happens.

I knew you were going to say something stupid. You're talking like I said my dad commanded it with his own "special powers" or something. I said he prayed (to GOD) for the rain to stop and it did. That's not coincidence. He's prayer was simply answered by the ALMIGHTY.

WesleyanA:

do you know that church goers tend to live longer than non-church goers?

What proofs do u have for that?

goodguy:

I knew you were going to say something stupid. You're talking like I said my dad commanded it with his own "special powers" or something. I said he prayed (to GOD) for the rain to stop and it did. That's not coincidence. He's prayer was simply answered by the ALMIGHTY.

whatever

What proofs do u have for that?

probably just anecdotes.  . . . that's what you believe right?

Stupid!

why you think anecdotes are stupid?
your dad's miracle story was only an anecdote. no proove. just story. and personal experience that can't be prooven true

how about. . . methuselah lived 969 years!!!

The fact that you don't belive in God doesnt mean you should blaspheme against his word. BEWARE

whatever.

Na wa o . I.ve read all sorts on this thread. Isn't d questn easy enough? As bad news spreads faster than good news so is it with our acceptance and beliefs. Pple will generally believe in satanic presence and influences than in Christ Jesus, our saviour..

im not here to pick theory of evolution or origin of life and watever theoretical book u may bring up.. all im saying is take a minute to look around you and ask yourself questions and tell mi wat ur gut tells you.... there is more to this life,,, tru dat.. nferyn

tolutope:

im not here to pick theory of evolution or origin of life and watever theoretical book u may bring up.. all im saying is take a minute to look around you and ask yourself questions and tell mi what your gut tells you.... there is more to this life,,, tru that.. nferyn

Hi tolutope,

The problem is that we have different frames of reference. I grew up in a secular household. Both my parents grew up Catholic, but were disgusted with the treatment they received from the Catholic Church. God or the Bible have never been my frame of reference. If you step outside the boundaries of your belief, you may see that there is more out there than you know.

I'm not telling you to abandon your beliefs, I'm quite sure they're very dear to you, but just try to empathise with people that do not follow your belief system.

Something I've said here before (this is just an analogy to illustrate my line of thought): If the only tool you have is a hammer (The Bible), than all problems will look like nails (the Christian point of view)

If you really want to understand how science handles beauty, mystery and the profound, I advise you to read Unweaving The Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder by Richard Dawkins (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0618056734/qid=1132099173/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-4141281-7828951?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 )

xplaining spirituality is like talking politics to a hungry man.. if his mind cant grasp the concept of it then u are talking trash..... likewise to you all who feel jazz and blood moni etc are imagination...u cant understand till u come to terms with ur self... even talkin to urself is like talking to another being in u... not just the wonder of the brain..... try and take sometime to chill by the sea side where its all quiet and look around.. mayb it'll dawn on u.. that life aint just that cell..originated..

nferyn.. i aint a fanatic and im sorry for wat the catholic did to u.. likewise to u all who have 1 grievance or the other.. .. just cos God or watever u call him gave u more hardknocks than happy life doesnt mean he aint real... surprisingly even scholars will tell u that the bible is d most accurate and common sensed book they have ever come across... no mattter ur ideolgy or outlook in life u can always find that it was stated in the book way b4 u could claim it was said 1st by whoever..... and who has ever followed the book to the letter and have not ended up being famous for one unique xter or the other they possessed?abraham lincoln 4 example....my aim of bringing up this thread is to find out how many people think humans or this life is just a passing phase where u just play ur part.. or it was part of a particular plan that has an end.....by something or someone out there?

tolutope:

xplaining spirituality is like talking politics to a hungry man.. if his mind can't grasp the concept of it then u are talking trash..... likewise to you all who feel jazz and blood moni etc are imagination...u can't understand till u come to terms with your self... even talkin to yourself is like talking to another being in u... not just the wonder of the brain..... try and take sometime to chill by the sea side where its all quiet and look around.. mayb it'll dawn on u.. that life aint just that cell..originated..

I don't understand you here. Are you claiming that I'm not spiritual becasue I don not believe in a supreme being? I'm a - very loose - follower of the buddhist philosophy. Buddhists have no concept of God, but you can hardly deny that they are among the most spiritual people in the world.
You should really try to broaden you horizon. Spirituality is not only achieved through pondering about a monotheistic God. If I meditate in nature and feel a oneness with my surroundings, am I not spiritual?