@backslider,

Thanks againfor your post.

I never said that they havent answer my questions. I quoted different versions for people to see.

I was a christian for years yet you are now telling that maybe I should pray for , I dont know.

I already have jesus and its not only him that I have but other prophets too because Allah said we shouild believe in all prophets.

My dear brother, If assuming there is going to be another life(whichv is very impossible), I will come back as a muslim.

What truth are you refering to? You meant religion based on falsehood.


In addition, Islam is never a mand made religion andwill never be.


Christ - christianity

Hindu - Hinduism

Jew - Judaism

Sango - Onisango

Obatala - Olobatala


Budha - Budhaism

etc,

All the above listed are made made religion named after their leaders.

What do you want to tell me about christianity that i do not know?

All the doctrines preached in christiandom are false (it was even confirmed by a christian here)

Before you even tell me anything here, try to reconcile with jehovah witness, catholics, mormon etc.

Till Icome your way,

Stay blessed

LMFAO. That nigga Jesus aint coming, You guyz are just hoping and praying for NOTHING. Nigeria hopes and prays for NOTHING. Hardwork(and your uncles connections) will surpass Hope and prayer anytime.

OkinBizkit

May thunder fire ur mouth

@my brother Bab787

It is a pity you think you know God through the Bible but If you knew the bible at all you would have known the Son of God and if you knew the son you would have been led by the Spirit to the Father. I know what is pride and I know when some is boastful but I will tell you this, You have not known him and his book.

You only went through it you IT never went through you. How do I know? If you are honest with yourself you will see that you lived a life of sin and there is no difference from then and now. Understand what I am saying. Your soul is more Valuable than anything in the world that is the reason why he sent Jesus to Die for you and Me.

The bible says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. When you were a Christian did you know this. When looking at the bible you see that accounts were given by various people and you see accounts when looked at carefully makes sense to the spiritual Mind. If I ask you

No man that thirst and taste of the True mercy of God will ever forget it. I want you to Secretly read the bible on your own just for few minutes everyday. Dont say I have been a Christian before be real with yourself Humble yourself and read the Scripture. I read the Quran and I honestly wished I read it a long time Ago so That I would have answered some of the question I had in me.

If I asked what is the theme of the Bible. What would you say? The Theme of the bible is The LOVE GOD THROUGH CHRIST THAT CAN BE SHED IN OUR HEARTS IF ONLY WE RECEIVE HIM. Jesus Gives us the power over sin and the power of sin. No man can could condemn Jesus of Sin, He is the sin Offering, It says he died while we were yet sinners so that he reconcile us to the Father.

That is why you see we TRUE CHRISTIANS ( THE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST) are given a Ministry of Reconciliation NOT RETALIATION.

God Bless My Brother

babs787:

I never said that they havent answer my questions. I quoted different versions for people to see.

Are there not different versions of the Qur'an - all saying various things? Even then, some prominent Muslims are not all agreed as to which translation of the Qur'an is to be trusted.

babs787:

I was a christian for years yet you are now telling that maybe I should pray for , I don't know.

Many people make this empty claim about having been a Christian for years; but it is just that - and empty claim.

babs787:

Before you even tell me anything here, try to reconcile with jehovah witness, catholics, mormon etc.

And before anyone would listen to you, try preaching to the various sects in Islam that are all at standby to wipe one another off the face of the earth - the Shiites and Sunnis, with the Wahhabis rubbing their fingers as they watch the drama unfold.

@4 get,

Can you bring out the verses that contradicted each other?

Secondly, I wonder why you people do rush to mention the issue of Sunnis and shittes.

Despite the fighting,

We still recite the same quran
We pray the same number of times
We recite the same Surahs
We face the same direction
We are being binded by the 5 pillars of Islam

etc,
Can we apply those to christianity too

Now from one of my posts

Good News Bible

Mathew 26v73: to the men standing
Mark 14v70: to bystanders
Luke 22v59: to ‘another man’
Mathew and mark agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man. Lets check another version again

New Living Translation

Mathew 26v73: to some bystanders
Mark 14v70: to some bystanders
Luke 22v59: to someone

Mathew and mark both agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to someone (a single person and not bystanders)
Still we check another to see if they will agree

Gideon Bible

Mathew 26v73: to those who stood by…”your speech betrays you’
Mark 14v70: to those who stood by…”your speech shows”
Luke 22v59: to a man
Mathew and Mark both agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to a man

Do we those agree. Though in one Quran, you may see a word being used differently from another (synonyms) Quran but will still give you the same meaning.

Do we apply the same to the above?

@backslider,

Dear brother,

I will try to respond to your beautiful preaching with my own too Insha Allah very soon.

Maa salam

@babs787,

babs787:

Do we those agree. Though in one Quran, you may see a word being used differently from another (synonyms) Quran but will still give you the same meaning.

Do we apply the same to the above?

In this roundabout often repeated issue of yours, bari_kade has roundly laid the matter to rest. He conclusively pointed out the issues and showed the circumstances in the narratives of the Gospels; even pointing out your error in mixing up the timeline of Peter's denials. The Gospels clearly bear out the same meaning, and the seeming difficulty is simply as a result of confusing the perspectives from which the writers penned their accounts.

As examples, you find the human ancestry of Jesus Christ traced in both Matthew and Luke - and yet with different perspectives. Matthew traces His genealogy back to Ab[/b]raham as the patriarch of the [b]covenant people; while Luke traces it back to Ad[/b]am as the head of the [b]created who seek God - and as such demonstrating Christ's true Humanity.

Mark and John did not trace His genealogy except making references to His family lineage as a true Jew. In the former, Jesus is presented as the divine Servant who perfects the will of God; while John presents His true Person as God Himself who comes to redeem man.

It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

Shall we then say that the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah contradicted each other as to the name by which the Messiah is called? Anyone who hasn't studied Biblical language will be quick to say "yes." However, what the prophets wrote about Him are to be understood as "INCLUSIVE" rather than contradictory.

In just the same way, the Gospels beautifully harmonise between themselves; and only careless souls will see contradictions in them out of ignorance of the perspectives from which the writers penned down the accounts.

However, when it comes to the Qur'an, it is actually pitiful and sad indeed that the deity there reveals a verse and then "abrogates" it. That is as much as saying that the Qur'an was neither inspired by the true God whose Word remains unabrogated; nor was the Qur'an perfect as is claimed by Muslims. Abrogating any verse renders the rest completely untrustworthy of a divine Revelation; because that simply means that the Qur'an has been editted, re-editted, cancelled (or revoked - basic meaning of abrogate) in some places, and incomplete as earlier Muslims testify.

It is interesting to note also that the Qur'an categorically states that the Gospel was given to Jesus Christ. Please babs787, without much ado, can you present to us that original Gospel that the Qur'an claims the "Allah" of Islam revealed? What exactly does it say and how does it differ from John 1:1 and Mark 1:1?? Is the Injil in the Qur'an part of the "abrogated verses" of Muhammad's "Allah"?

@backslider,

Dear brother,

Thanks so much for the wonderful post. I perused the bible but did not see where jesus said that

1. He is the lord and personal saviour
2. I didn’t not see where he says that salvation can be got through his blood
3. I also learnt that jesus was neither killed nor crucified.

Since I have not seen all those, I beg you to let us leave false doctrines and face the truth which is Islam. Jesus said that “what shall it profit a man who gain the whole world and lose his soul”?

Whenever I remember the Judgement day (coming up in my next write up) and the punishment for the unbelievers, I always shed tears for unbelievers, if only Christians and the the like will accept the Holy Quran and the LAST PROPHET.

Quran 22v2: o mankind, fear your Lord! The convulsion of the hour of judgement will be a terrible thing. The day you shall see every suckling mother forget her baby and every pregnant female delivering her unformed pregnancy, you shall see mankind as if intoxicated.

Quran 80v34-37: that day shall a man flee from his own brother, mother, father, from his wife and children; each of them that Day, will have enough concern (of his own) to make him indifferent to the others.

Nobody will dies except that he is shown his place in Hell or Paradise. Everybody will suffer the pang of death in proportion for the quality of his deeds. While it will be light for the believers, it will be hard in unbelievers.

Also brother, you should fear the day when man is eventually laid in his grave and covered with the earth, the soul is restored back to the body and two black angels appear with an iron rod asking you three questions:
1. who is your God?
2. what do you know about Prophet Muhammed?
3. What is your religion?

If someone fails, he will be beaten severely with the iron rods. His cries will be heard by all except men and jinns.

Allah then said that if you don’t know the true and real religion.

Quran 30v30: So set (O Muhammed [saw]) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic monotheism) Hanif (worship none but Allah alone) with which He has created mankind, no change let there be in Khalg Ilah (i.e. the religion of Allah) that is the straight religion but most men know not.

The above verse is saying that the true religion is the religion that is like the creation of manking (including all living things). If you see any religion that is like creation of mankind, that is the religion before God. For example, men in Africa are having 2 eyes, one head etc likewise those in Europe. Dogs in Asia have four legs likewise those in America. Etc Any religion in which the way its practiced in a particular place is not different from another, that is the true religion but MOST MEN DO NOT KNOW.

In Islam, thought we have sunnis and shittes fighting but their fighting is more or less that of a civil war. Its just like saying the Fulanis and the Hausas in the Northern part of Nigeria. Despite the fighting, we still recite the same Quran, face the same Qiblah, fast in the same month, pray the same five times daily prayer etc but in christianty, Jehovah witness are saying jesus was tied to a stake and not crucified, witness do not believe in Christmas. Deeper life too, they do leave house for Christians and retreat to their camp because of this same Christmas, catholics believe that mary is the mother of God while others do not believe that and do not believe in the miracle of oyakhilomes, Bonnkes etc. some early christiand never believed that jesus died for anybody’s sin.

Quran 3v85: and whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him and in the hereafter, he will be one of the losers.

I don’t want you to be one of the losers. Lets leave pride and face reality.
Quran 5v3: this day, I have perfected your religion for you and chosen Islam for you as your religion.

When we check the Quran, we read that all prophets that came before the last prophet were muslims.

Quran 42 v 13: He has ordained for you the same religion which he ordained FOR NOAH, and that which we have revealed to you (O MUHAMMED [SAW]) and that which we ORDAINED FOR MOSES and JESUS saying you should ESTABLISH RELIGION and MAKE NO DIVISION IN IT. intolerable for the Mushrikin is that (Islamic monotheism) to which you (O MUHAMMED [SAW] )call them. Allah chooses FOR HIMSELF WHOM HE WILLS and GUIDES UNTO HIMSELF WHO TURNS TO HIM IN REPENTANCE AND IN OBEDIENCE.

Lets read if really other prophets practiced Islam

Quran 3v67: Abraham was not a jew nor yet a Christian, but he was true in faith and bowed his will to Allah (which is Islam) and he joined no God with Allah

To Noah
Quran 10v72: I have been commanded to be of those who submit to Allah’s will (In Islam)

To Moses
Quran 10v84: o my people. If you do (really) believe in Allah, then in Him put your trust if you are muslims.

Quran 2v128: Abraham and Ismail said: o Lord, make of us muslims, bowing to Thy (Will) and of our progeny a Muslim people.

To Joseph
Quran 12v101: (Joseph prayed). Creator of the heavens and the earth, thou art my protector in this world and in the hereafter, take thou my soul (at death) as one submitting to Thy will (as a muslim) and unite me with the righteous.

To the disciples of jesus
Quran 27v44: and behold! I inspired the disciples (of jesus) to have faith in me and mine apostle: they said, ‘we have faith and be witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims.

Quran 15v19: we have without doubt sent the message (Quran) and we will assuredly guard it (from corruption)

Quran 85v21-22: Nay, this is a Glorious Quran (inscribed) in a guarded tablet.

Quran 4v150-152: Those who DENY ALLAH AND HIS APOSTLES and (those who) WISH TO SEPARATE ALLAH FROM HIS APOSTLES, saying ‘we believe in some but REJECT OTHERS and (those who) WISH TO TAKE A COURSE MIDWAY, they are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepoared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment. To those who believe in Allah and his apostles and make NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN ANY OF THE APOSTLES, we shall soon give their (due) rewards, for Allah is Oft-forgiving.

Dear brother a word is enough for the wise.

Islam is the Noah’s ark of Today, embark on it and be saved.

MAA SALAM.

@ 4 get me,

I have allowed the matter to die but for your trying to play smart, I  have to bring it up again

Posted by 4 get me
In this roundabout often repeated issue of yours, bari_kade has roundly laid the matter to rest. He conclusively pointed out the issues and showed the circumstances in the narratives of the Gospels; even pointing out your error in mixing up the timeline of Peter's denials. The Gospels clearly bear out the same meaning, and the seeming difficulty is simply as a result of confusing the perspectives from which the writers penned their accounts.
   
Now you said he explained everything, lt me bring out some verses for you.

 Where was the denial made?

         King James Version

Mathew 26v71: …and he was gone into the Porch
Mark 14v68-69: and he went out into the Porch
Luke 22v55-58: …in the midst of the hall.

Did you call the above same? Porch and in the midst of the hall.

         Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v71:and when he went out to the Porch
Mark 14v68: …and he went out into the Gateway
Luke 22v55: …in the middle of the Courtyard

Did you call the above same too? Porch, Gateway and Courtyard

         Good News Bible

Mathew 26v71: went out to the entrance of the Courtyard
Mark 14v68: went out into the Passage
Luke 22v55: …center of the Courtyard

Did you call the above same too? went out to the entrance of the Courtyard, went out into the Passage and centre of the Courtyrad!!
                         
 To whom was the last denial made

                                        King James Version

Mathew 26v73: and after a while came unto him THEY THAT STOOD BY and said to Peter surely thou also art one of them, for THY SPEECH BETRAYETH THEE
Mark 14v70: ….and a little farther, THEY THAT STOOD BY said again to Peter, ‘surely, thou art one of them. For thou art one of them. For thou art a Galilean, AND THY SPEECH AGREED THERETO

Both mathew and mark agreed that it happened to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man and you called that same. To you does one person mean the same as many people?  

                  To whom was the last denial made

Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v73[b]: to bystanders[/b]…”for your accent betrays you”
Mark 14v70: to bystanders… “for you are a Galilean”
Luke 22v59: to another man (not bystanders like his friends) … ‘for he is a Galilean’

Mathew and Mark both agreed that it was to bystanders but Luke said it was to another man (a person and not bystanders), yet you said they are all same.

                 Good News Bible

Mathew 26v73: to the men standing
Mark 14v70: to bystanders
Luke 22v59: to ‘another man’

Mathew and mark agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man and you called that same.

A person and many people can never be the same. It is very glaring they are contradicting.
Posted by 4 get me
As examples, you find the human ancestry of Jesus Christ traced in both Matthew and Luke - and yet with different perspectives. Matthew traces His genealogy back to Abraham as the patriarch of the covenant people; while Luke traces it back to Adam as the head of the created who seek God - and as such demonstrating Christ's true Humanity.

Where did you see that? Now compare Mathew 1v18 with Luke 3v23 where the genealogy was erroneously attributed to jesus instead of Joseph. Read the names and compare the two. You will also read that mathew's stopped at 28 while Luke's list contained 43 names!!
Posted by 4 get me
Mark and John did not trace His genealogy except making references to His family lineage as a true Jew. In the former, Jesus is presented as the divine Servant who perfects the will of God; while John presents His true Person as God Himself who comes to redeem man.

Thank God you admitted that Jesus is also a servant of God.

Posted by 4 get me
It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

This the exact thing I have been asking you in other thread that you should clarify Pslam 2v12 and Isaiah 9v6

This is what we have in Psalm 2v12: , the Lord said to me, 'you are my son. Today have I become your father (NLT)

My dear brother, the above referred to David. Start the reading from the beginning and you will see that it was David that was talking. He was saying what the Lord told him. He continued by saying that the Lord told him that, "You are my son. Today have I become your father"

The above does not in any have anything to do with Jesus. It was David that was speaking and telling us what God told him. Read from the begining for better understanding.

Posted by 4 get me
It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

I cant help laughing at your wrong interpretations. I have always tell you to please try to give me the verse in full. This is the verse from New Living Translation

Jeremiah 23v5-6: for the time is coming says the Lord. when I will place a righteous Branch on King David's throne. He will be a king who rules with wisdom. He will do what is just and right throughout the land. and this is his name: THE LORD IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS> In that day Judah will be saved.

The above verse is referring to SOLOMON. Was Jesus King, He was never king and he himself said so. Did he rule anywhere? The Jews never allowed him and that is the reson for Deutronomy 18 v 18, john 16v7 etc referring to the LAST PROPHET, PROPHET MUHAMMED [SAW]). We learnt that SOLOM RULED with WISDOM. Is jesus name not Emmanuel? How come the other name you gave him, "THE LORD IS RIGHTEOUSNESS" .

Posted by 4 get me
However, when it comes to the Qur'an, it is actually pitiful and sad indeed that the deity there reveals a verse and then "abrogates" it. That is as much as saying that the Qur'an was neither inspired by the true God whose Word remains unabrogated; nor was the Qur'an perfect as is claimed by Muslims. Abrogating any verse renders the rest completely untrustworthy of a divine Revelation; because that simply means that the Qur'an has been editted, re-editted, cancelled (or revoked - basic meaning of abrogate) in some places, and incomplete as earlier Muslims testify.

Never mind, in other thread tagged "abrogation", You know Allah told us the reason for the abrogation, but mind you, Jesus said he never came to abrogate any law. Hold your breath till I WILL COME UP WITH SHOCKING ABROGATION FROM THE BIBLE.

Posted by 4 get me
[b]It is interesting to note also that the Qur'an categorically states that the Gospel was given to Jesus Christ. Please babs787, without much ado, can you present to us that original Gospel that the Qur'an claims the "Allah" of Islam revealed? What exactly does it say and how does it differ from John 1:1 and Mark 1:1?? Is the Injil in the Qur'an part of the "abrogated verses" of Muhammad's "Allah"?

All will be answered in your raised questions

Salam till I come your way

@ 4 get me,

I have allowed the matter to die but for your trying to play smart, I  have to bring it up again

Posted by 4 get me
In this roundabout often repeated issue of yours, bari_kade has roundly laid the matter to rest. He conclusively pointed out the issues and showed the circumstances in the narratives of the Gospels; even pointing out your error in mixing up the timeline of Peter's denials. The Gospels clearly bear out the same meaning, and the seeming difficulty is simply as a result of confusing the perspectives from which the writers penned their accounts.
   
Now you said he explained everything, lt me bring out some verses for you.

 Where was the denial made?

         King James Version

Mathew 26v71: …and he was gone into the Porch
Mark 14v68-69: and he went out into the Porch
Luke 22v55-58: …in the midst of the hall.

Did you call the above same? Porch and in the midst of the hall.

         Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v71:and when he went out to the Porch
Mark 14v68: …and he went out into the Gateway
Luke 22v55: …in the middle of the Courtyard

Did you call the above same too? Porch, Gateway and Courtyard

         Good News Bible

Mathew 26v71: went out to the entrance of the Courtyard
Mark 14v68: went out into the Passage
Luke 22v55: …center of the Courtyard

Did you call the above same too? went out to the entrance of the Courtyard, went out into the Passage and centre of the Courtyrad!!
                         
 To whom was the last denial made

                                        King James Version

Mathew 26v73: and after a while came unto him THEY THAT STOOD BY and said to Peter surely thou also art one of them, for THY SPEECH BETRAYETH THEE
Mark 14v70: ….and a little farther, THEY THAT STOOD BY said again to Peter, ‘surely, thou art one of them. For thou art one of them. For thou art a Galilean, AND THY SPEECH AGREED THERETO

Both mathew and mark agreed that it happened to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man and you called that same. To you does one person mean the same as many people?  

                  To whom was the last denial made

Revised Standard Version

Mathew 26v73[b]: to bystanders[/b]…”for your accent betrays you”
Mark 14v70: to bystanders… “for you are a Galilean”
Luke 22v59: to another man (not bystanders like his friends) … ‘for he is a Galilean’

Mathew and Mark both agreed that it was to bystanders but Luke said it was to another man (a person and not bystanders), yet you said they are all same.

                 Good News Bible

Mathew 26v73: to the men standing
Mark 14v70: to bystanders
Luke 22v59: to ‘another man’

Mathew and mark agreed that it was to bystanders while Luke said it was to another man and you called that same.

A person and many people can never be the same. It is very glaring they are contradicting.

Posted by 4 get me
As examples, you find the human ancestry of Jesus Christ traced in both Matthew and Luke - and yet with different perspectives. Matthew traces His genealogy back to Abraham as the patriarch of the covenant people; while Luke traces it back to Adam as the head of the created who seek God - and as such demonstrating Christ's true Humanity.

Where did you see that? Now compare Mathew 1v18 with Luke 3v23 where the genealogy was erroneously attributed to jesus instead of Joseph. Read the names and compare the two. You will also read that mathew's stopped at 28 while Luke's list contained 43 names!!

Posted by 4 get me
Mark and John did not trace His genealogy except making references to His family lineage as a true Jew. In the former, Jesus is presented as the divine Servant who perfects the will of God; while John presents His true Person as God Himself who comes to redeem man.

Thank God you admitted that Jesus is also a servant of God.

Posted by 4 get me
It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

This the exact thing I have been asking you in other thread that you should clarify Pslam 2v12 and Isaiah 9v6

This is what we have in Psalm 2v12: , the Lord said to me, 'you are my son. Today have I become your father (NLT)

My dear brother, the above referred to David. Start the reading from the beginning and you will see that it was David that was talking. He was saying what the Lord told him. He continued by saying that the Lord told him that, "You are my son. Today have I become your father"

The above does not in any have anything to do with Jesus. It was David that was speaking and telling us what God told him. Read from the begining for better understanding.

Posted by 4 get me
It is in the same character that the Old Testament prophets variously describe the Person, work and events surrounding the Messiah. David called Him "the Son" (Psalm 2:12); Isaiah says His name shall be called "the mighty God" (Isa. 9:6); Jeremiah however intones that He shall be called "THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." (Jer. 23:6).

I cant help laughing at your wrong interpretations. I have always tell you to please try to give me the verse in full. This is the verse from New Living Translation

Jeremiah 23v5-6: for the time is coming says the Lord. when I will place a righteous Branch on King David's throne. He will be a king who rules with wisdom. He will do what is just and right throughout the land. and this is his name: THE LORD IS OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS> In that day Judah will be saved.

The above verse is referring to SOLOMON. Was Jesus King, He was never king and he himself said so. Did he rule anywhere? The Jews never allowed him and that is the reson for Deutronomy 18 v 18, john 16v7 etc referring to the LAST PROPHET, PROPHET MUHAMMED [SAW]). We learnt that SOLOM RULED with WISDOM. Is jesus name not Emmanuel? How come the other name you gave him, "THE LORD IS RIGHTEOUSNESS" .

Posted by 4 get me
However, when it comes to the Qur'an, it is actually pitiful and sad indeed that the deity there reveals a verse and then "abrogates" it. That is as much as saying that the Qur'an was neither inspired by the true God whose Word remains unabrogated; nor was the Qur'an perfect as is claimed by Muslims. Abrogating any verse renders the rest completely untrustworthy of a divine Revelation; because that simply means that the Qur'an has been editted, re-editted, cancelled (or revoked - basic meaning of abrogate) in some places, and incomplete as earlier Muslims testify.

Never mind, in other thread tagged "abrogation", You know Allah told us the reason for the abrogation, but mind you, Jesus said he never came to abrogate any law. Hold your breath till I WILL COME UP WITH SHOCKING ABROGATION FROM THE BIBLE.

Posted by 4 get me
[b]It is interesting to note also that the Qur'an categorically states that the Gospel was given to Jesus Christ. Please babs787, without much ado, can you present to us that original Gospel that the Qur'an claims the "Allah" of Islam revealed? What exactly does it say and how does it differ from John 1:1 and Mark 1:1?? Is the Injil in the Qur'an part of the "abrogated verses" of Muhammad's "Allah"?

All will be answered in your raised questions

Salam till I come your way

Quran 30v30: So set (O Muhammed [saw]) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic monotheism) Hanif (worship none but Allah alone) with which He has created mankind, no change let there be in Khalg Ilah (i.e. the religion of Allah) that is the straight religion but most men know not.

[b]The above verse is saying that the true religion is the religion that is like the creation of manking (including all living things). If you see any religion that is like creation of mankind, that is the religion before God. For example, men in Africa are having 2 eyes, one head etc likewise those in Europe. Dogs in Asia have four legs likewise those in America. Etc Any religion in which the way its practiced in a particular place is not different from another, that is the true religion but MOST MEN DO NOT KNOW.

In Islam, thought we have sunnis and shittes fighting but their fighting is more or less that of a civil war. Its just like saying the Fulanis and the Hausas in the Northern part of Nigeria. Despite the fighting, we still recite the same Quran, face the same Qiblah, fast in the same month, pray the same five times daily prayer etc but in christianty, Jehovah witness are saying jesus was tied to a stake and not crucified, witness do not believe in Christmas. Deeper life too, they do leave house for Christians and retreat to their camp because of this same Christmas, catholics believe that mary is the mother of God while others do not believe that and do not believe in the miracle of oyakhilomes, Bonnkes etc. some early christiand never believed that jesus died for anybody’s sin.[/b]


The Above Statement is another exposition of dishonesty I think you should Go to Iran before you start down playing the Great difference between Shiite and Sunni where blood is even shed for this cause.

In Nigeria I lived in a house with a Sunni and he was very Categorical he thought Shia were not of Allah and That their leader Died in the toilet or something like that!!!!!!!!!!

1) They Will never Marry amongst The different Sect
2) They Never Pray In The opposite Mosque Shiite will Never pray In A Sunni Mosque
3) They have a their different followerships
4) They are only United in War or in defence of the Quran
5) Some Sunni belief that Shiite are Not Muslims (the Guy that sell the unit for me in this cafe) says so. He is a
6) They have different Shahadah
practicing Muslim he says you are a liar.

He even gave me this site

http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm

The Origins of the Sunni/Shia split in Islam
by Hussein Abdulwaheed Amin, Editor of IslamForToday.com

Introduction
The Shia shahadah (declaration of faith) states:

"There is no god but Alláh, Muhammad is the Messenger of Alláh, Alí is the Friend of Alláh. The Successor of the Messenger of Alláh And his first Caliph."

If you are already familiar with standard Sunni beliefs, you will immediately notice the addition to the shahadah regarding Imam Ali (ra), cousin of the Prophet (pbuh), husband of his daughter Fatima, father of Hassan and Hussein and the second person ever to embrace Islam. The term Shia or Shi'ite derives from a shortening of Shiat Ali or partisans of Ali.

History
Ali is the central figure at the origin of the Shia / Sunni split which occurred in the decades immediately following the death of the Prophet in 632. Sunnis regard Ali as the fourth and last of the "rightly guided caliphs" (successors to Mohammed (pbuh) as leader of the Muslims) following on from Abu Bakr 632-634, Umar 634-644 and Uthman 644-656. Shias feel that Ali should have been the first caliph and that the caliphate should pass down only to direct descendants of Mohammed (pbuh) via Ali and Fatima, They often refer to themselves as ahl al bayt or "people of the house" [of the prophet].

When Uthman was murdered while at prayer, Ali finally succeeded to the caliphate. Ali was, however, opposed by Aisha, wife of the Prophet (pbuh) and daughter of Abu Bakr, who accused him of being lax in bringing Uthman's killers to justice. After Ali's army defeated Aisha's forces at the Battle of the Camel in 656, she apologized to Ali and was allowed to return to her home in Madinah where she withdrew from public life.

However, Ali was not able to overcome the forces of Mu'awiya Ummayad, Uthman's cousin and governor of Damascus, who also refused to recognize him until Uthman's killers had been apprehended. At the Battle of Suffin Mu'awiya's soldiers stuck verses of the Quran onto the ends of their spears with the result that Ali's pious supporters refused to fight them. Ali was forced to seek a compromise with Mu'awiya, but this so shocked some of his die-hard supporters who regarded it as a betrayal that he was struck down by one of his own men in 661.

Mu'awiya declared himself caliph. Ali's elder son Hassan accepted a pension in return for not pursuing his claim to the caliphate. He died within a year, allegedly poisoned. Ali's younger son Hussein agreed to put his claim to the caliphate on hold until Mu'awiya's death. However, when Mu'awiya finally died in 680, his son Yazid usurped the caliphate. Hussein led an army against Yazid but, hopelessly outnumbered, he and his men were slaughtered at the Battle of Karbala (in modern day Iraq). Hussein's infant son, Ali, survived so the line continued. Yazid formed the hereditary Ummayad dynasty. The division between the Shia and what came to be known as the Sunni was set.

An opportunity for Muslim unity arose in the 750's CE. In 750 except for a few who managed to flee to Spain, almost the entire Ummayad aristocracy was wiped out following the Battle of Zab in Egypt in a revolt led by Abu Al Abbass al-Saffah and aided by considerable Shia support. It was envisaged that the Shia spiritual leader Jafar As-Siddiq, great-grandson of Hussein be installed as Caliph. But when Abbass died in 754, this arrangement had not yet been finalised and Abbas' son Al Mansur murdered Jafar, seized the caliphate for himself and founded the Baghdad-based Abbassid dynasty which prevailed until the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258.

@babs787,

I am truly sorry to read your latest denials and pretences. Did you say you were once a Christian - and yet you don't know the basics of the Christian faith? Or was that just a mere claim of yours to win cheap appeal?

babs787:

I perused the bible but did not see where jesus said that

1.         He is the lord and personal saviour

Let me ask you babs787: was there anytime that Jesus said He was the Christ in the Qur'an?

This kind of argument is both tenuous and philistine . It is like someone looking for excuses to deny that Jesus is the Christ/Messiah on the premise that they could not find where He said verbatim He is the Christ. Indeed, He did not categorically say that He was the Christ - neither in the Bible nor in the Qur'an. But is that reason enough to deny that Jesus is indeed the Christ because you can't find Him saying so Himself?

To be sure, Jesus positively affirmed that He was and is the Christ by His words, teaching, and works (see John 17:3). In the same way, if you actually "perused" the Bible, you would have found loads of verses confirming Jesus' own declaration that He is indeed Lord and Saviour.

Jesus confirmed His Lordship to His disciples -

>> "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." (John 13:13)

>> "If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet." (John 13:14)

Jesus also confirmed that He is the Saviour of the world -

>> "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." (Matt. 18:11)

>> "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." (Matt. 20:28)

>> "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." (John 3:17 - this was Jesus Himself speaking)

>> "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture." (John 10:9)

>> "And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." (John 12:47)

babs787:

2.         I didn’t not see where he says that salvation can be got through his blood

This is how He declared salvation through His blood:

>> "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." (Matt. 26:28)

>> "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." (John 6:53)

And when people listened to Him, what was their testimony? Here: "And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world" (John 4:42)

babs787:

3.         I also learnt that jesus was neither killed nor crucified.

That is typical - a Muslim denial despite obvious statements. Jesus Himself affirmed His arrest, death by crucifixion, and resurrection. If He was not crucified or did not die, how come He spoke afterwards of His resurrection.

"The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. . . Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (John 20:25-27)

You either pretended not to have seen the evidence in the Bible, or having seen them you are struggling with the dilemma of the denials Muhammad made in the Qur'an.

babs787:

Since I have not seen all those, I beg you to let us leave false doctrines and face the truth which is Islam. Jesus said that “what shall it profit a man who gain the whole world and lose his soul”?

So, from where did you get that statement of Jesus to conveniently cover up your denials if you missed all the others after having "perused" the Bible??

The truth you are perennially denying is before you. Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour, and no matter the number of times you deny it, He still is the Saviour, Lord and Christ.

While you are at it this muslim guy has just given me another Site of The Ahmadis Read it and you will see THE GREAT AND ALMIGHTY DIFFERENCE

The Jews believe that Jesus died on the cross because he was a false prophet.

The Christians believe that Jesus died on the cross in atonement of the sins of humanity, was resurrected soon thereafter, and then ascended to Heaven.

The orthodox Muslims believe that God saved Jesus from "death by crucifixion" and ascended bodily to heaven, and will come down to earth again to smash the cross and what it stands for and to purify the faith of the believers.

[b]Ahmadiyya Muslim Community [/b]declares that Jesus Christ only fell into a swoon on the Cross, but when he was taken down from it, he recovered and migrated to Kashmir, India where he died a natural death at the age of 120.

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/index.php

Analysis and Commentary

Jesus Predicts his Second Coming, Tribulation (Mark 13:24-29)

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

Jesus Foretells Arriving in Power and Glory
The one section of Jesus’ predictions in chapter 13 which definitely doesn’t reflect recent events for Mark’s community is the description of his “Second Coming,” where he takes part in the apocalypse.

The signs of his arrival are unlike anything that has come before, ensuring that his followers won’t mistake what is going on.
Indeed, what we have is the entire cosmic order falling apart: the sun becomes dark, the stars fall, and the “Son of man” descends on clouds. All of this occurs after the great suffering experienced by the true believers who will be gathered up and taken to heaven. From here many Christians today derive (in part) the belief of a “rapture” which transports the elect directly to heaven, although in contemporary belief this occurs prior to the “tribulation” and suffering.

All of the description is consistent with similar passages found in the Old Testament. The cosmic disasters are consistent with material found in Isaiah (13:10, 34:4) and Ezekiel (32:7-. The appearance of the Son of man on a cloud is reminiscent of a passage in Daniel (7:13-14), although there Daniel is going to heaven rather than arriving from it.

The fig tree enters the picture once again, but this time Jesus isn’t cursing and killing it. Instead, the audience is supposed to learn something from the fig tree: just as it has a natural cycle that is predetermined by nature, the apocalypse has a predetermined course that is ordained by God. If you know how to read a fig tree, you’ll know when it will bear fruit; if you know how to read the signs around you, you’ll know when the End is approaching.

@ 4 get me

Hope you are cool. Some questions for you here on 'jesus dying for your sins'

1. Why did God not send Jesus immediately after Adam but allowed string of prophets to have come and gone before Jesus?

2. Can you face firing squad on behalf of a sin committed by by another person?

3. If God's anger was kindled against Adam and Eve for their disobedience, could the anger persist onto the generation of Adam and Eve?

4. If sin means breaking of God's law, which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called the forbidden tree?

5. If men are born sinners, the coming of jesus at the end of the world to die for sins of men is equally stupefying with regards to countless number of people that have gone before his coming.

6. Let me ask, what kind of God is that, because of the sin of two people, decided to condemn the entire humanity for the sin they knew nothing about?

7. If really there is salvation in his blood, why did he preached repentance

8. Also if its only through his blood one can gain salvation, why did he used little children as examples since the bible says that no one born of a woman is clean

Let me stop there for you to respond

If you want to tell me that Jesus is an earthly saviour, fine ,I agree and he wasnt the only one, we have lots of earthly saviour but Heavenly saviour belongs to only Allah.

As am preaching to you now, If God willing, Allah opens your heart, I will become your earthly saviour because God uses me to touch your heart . Thats what hw meant by saviour.

Also if salvation can be got through only jesus,(john 14 v 1-7), please explain the below verses
1.
Mathew 19v17: , And he said unto him, why callest thou me good? There is no one good but one, that is God. BUT IF THOU WILT ENTER LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS.

The above verse shows that if you are able to keep the commandments (as given to moses), you shall gain paradise

2.
Mathew 18 v 3-6; And said, verily i say unto you, except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of God. Whosoever shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of God and who so shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

also
Mark 10v14-15: but when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased and said unto them, sufffer the little children to cometh unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God.

Concerning purity if children
Proverb 20v11: even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure and whether it be right.

The above verse is saying that if anyone can become sinless like children that knew nothing, they would gain paradise, yet no issue of seeing jesus before gaining paradise.

3. Jesus also told his disciples how to pray that

Luke 11v2-4; and he said unto them, when ye pray, say, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HALLOWED BE THY NAME, thy kingdom come. they will be done as in heaven, so in earth. give us this day,

Still no where of seeing jesus before gaining salvation.

4.
2nd corinthians 7v14: if my people which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then will i hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Still no mention of getting salvation through jesus.

5.
Mathew 5v19: whosoever shall break one of these commandments, and shall teach men so, he'll be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Note, still no mention of getting salvation through jesus but can be got
through keeping the commandments.

6.
mathew 5v20: for except your righteous exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of God

Here, it is noted that you can gain paradise by being righteous .i.e doing good deeds.

7.

Isaiah 55v7: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts, let him return to the Lord, that He may have mercy on him, and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.

Still same as above. No blood atonement or whatever

Quote from: babs787 on Today at 08:19:30 AM
3. I also learnt that jesus was neither killed nor crucified.

That is typical - a Muslim denial despite obvious statements. Jesus Himself affirmed His arrest, death by crucifixion, and resurrection. If He was not crucified or did not die, how come He spoke afterwards of His resurrection.

"The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. . . Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. (John 20:25-27)

Questions for you.

1. What clinical instrument was used to certify him dead?
2. When one of the soldiers thrust his spear, blood and water gushed out, do that happen to dead bodies?
3. Why was the stone rolled away?
4. Do spirits look like Gardeners?
5. Do Jews massage dead body after three days?
6. What does mary want to do with a decomposing corpse?
7. Can she alone carry the corpse
8. Do spirits eat like the living?
9. do spirits carry marks on their body?
10. If I say, ‘ I have no flesh and bones', what does that implies
11. if I say, ‘ I have flesh and bones', what does that mean?

Let me stop there in order for you to respond

@domwas2,

Please explain these predictions

1.
MATHEW 10v23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another (city), for verily, i say unto you , ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, til the son of man be come

Note: the disciples of Jesus fled and they have perished for 2000 years with no sign of the return of jesus.

2.
mathew 24v v 29 -34: , the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, truly, THIS GENERATION WILL NOT PASS AWAY TILL ALL THESE THINGS TAKE PLACE.

Note: all the generations have passed away that hardly could you find any of them again, yet jesus hasnt come.

Stay blessed till I hear from you

17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

18"Which ones?" the man inquired.

Jesus replied, " 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,'[d] and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'[e]"

20"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"

21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. ^{Then come, follow me}."


You Mr Babs787

You keep doing this it is not fair you make the argument less Righteous READ THE WHOLE PARAGRAPH Your Knowledge of Scripture is very much biased Myopic if I did the same you would accuse be of Dishonesty. anyway I am waiting for you on the Issue of Different sect we have in Islam where even blood was shed on this differences. Because you Claim that this makes Islam The RIGHT PATH EVEN YOU BACKED IT WITH A SURAH.



1.
MATHEW 10v23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another (city), for verily, i say unto you , ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, til the son of man be come

Note: the disciples of Jesus fled and they have perished for 2000 years with no sign of the return of jesus.

Another Attempt But You showed that you are Myopic in Judgment Again.

THE DISCIPLES NEVER EVANGELIZED THE WHOLE OF ISREAL IT IS FACT YOU AND I KNOW IT IS STARING YOU IN THE FACE EVEN NOW NO ONE HAS EVANGELIZED A NATION COMPLETELY HUNDRED PERCENT WITH THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

BESIDE WHEN JESUS DIED AND RESURRECTED THE DISCIPLES HAD NOT LEFT ISRAEL BROTHER.

Questions for you.

1. What clinical instrument was used to certify him dead?
2. When one of the soldiers thrust his spear, blood and water gushed out, do that happen to dead bodies?
3. Why was the stone rolled away?
4. Do spirits look like Gardeners?
5. Do Jews massage dead body after three days?
6. What does mary want to do with a decomposing corpse?
7. Can she alone carry the corpse
8. Do spirits eat like the living?
9. do spirits carry marks on their body?
10. If I say, ‘ I have no flesh and bones', what does that implies
11. if I say, ‘ I have flesh and bones', what does that mean?

PLEASE TELL ME WHICH SECT OF ISLAM YOU BELONG TO BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEEM TO FALL IN THE ORTHODOX MUSLIM BELIEF. They believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus. The Shia have different from this.

@backslider,

Never mind, I a moderate muslim and will always be.

Now once again, go and find out from your cafe friend.

1. the Quran the shites read and sunnis
2. where they face during prayer
3. the Surahs they recite during prayers.

etc when you able to answer these, I will come up with more.


Now to mathew 19v17: Jesus told him that if he could keep up with all that he told him, he should then follow him.

Follow him here does not mean blood atonement. He meant that he should follow him as a leader that leads people and as you are well aware, all prophets are leaders and examples for their people.

Also follow me is just like being an earthly saviour but God alone is the heavenly saviour. Ordinary people can be saviour. For instance, you assists someone in removing sharp obstacle from the road, you are the saviour of that person at that time because you never can tell maybe the person if not for your assistance, can have a very serious accident.

Again, you can also be a saviour by assisting someone make possible what he thought remained impossible etc.

Jesus even made it clear that heaven would be certain for the main if he could meet up with all that Jesus told him.

Read chapter 20 and digest the illustration there and you will get a better picture of what jesus tried telling the man.

MATHEW 10v23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another (city), for verily, i say unto you , ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, til the son of man be come

[b]Posted by backslider
THE DISCIPLES NEVER EVANGELIZED THE WHOLE OF ISREAL IT IS FACT YOU AND I KNOW IT IS STARING YOU IN THE FACE EVEN NOW NO ONE HAS EVANGELIZED A NATION COMPLETELY HUNDRED PERCENT WITH THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

My dear brother, read the verse again. No emphasis was laid on evangelizing Israel.The above verse referred to Jesus's disciples promising them that he (jesus) would come for them before their leaving the cities and till now he hasnt come. Jesus was talking to them there. Read the verse again to grab the meaning.

Even a lot of evangelism have taken place round the city of Israel coupled with prosecution yet no sign of him till now.

On crucifixion

Questions for you.

1. What clinical instrument was used to certify him dead?
2. When one of the soldiers thrust his spear, blood and water gushed out, do that happen to dead bodies?
3. Why was the stone rolled away?
4. Do spirits look like Gardeners?
5. Do Jews massage dead body after three days?
6. What does mary want to do with a decomposing corpse?
7. Can she alone carry the corpse
8. Do spirits eat like the living?
9. do spirits carry marks on their body?
10. If I say, ‘ I have no flesh and bones', what does that implies
11. if I say, ‘ I have flesh and bones', what does that mean?

Please answer my questions dear brother.
NOTE; dear brother, am not saying that Jesus will not be coming but am trying to let you see that the bible wasnt inspired, most of the sayings accorded to Jesus were not his, the authors were not there to witness the whole incident, they just copied from each other etc

Please read Isaiah 37 and compare with 2nd Kings 19, you will see that everything was copied word for word (100% plagiarism). The holy spirit should have told one of the authors that it had inspired one to write it before.

Salam

@babs

If I begin to espouse Christian doctrine I may be wasting my time with you so I better live the deep and Dark sayings of scripture.

I will ask you this Question be frank CAN A MUSLIM ONLY SHOULD READ THE QURAN ?

WHEN A SHIAT ALI PRAYs CAN YOU TELL ME IT THE SAME AS A SUNNI ?

BE HONEST THAT SURAH HAS BEEN NULLIFIED EVEN FROM THE BEGINNING

THE QURAN CANT STAND

SHALOM SHALOM IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST

@backslider,

Brother

comparing sunnis and shittes is like comparing protestant with JAEHOVAH WITNESS.

Give me surah that you are referring to and I will explain to you. It is well known that the biblw is corrupt and not reliable. The Quran still stands the test of time.

These are the questions I asked then


1. the Quran the shites read and sunnis
2. where they face during prayer
3. the Surahs they recite during prayers.

etc when you able to answer these, I will come up with more.

Also which christian doctrine are you referring to?

Another se of questions

1. Can Catholics worship with Protestant.
2. Can white garment worship with C.A.C.
3. Can Jehovah Witness worship with Deeper Life
etc,

Islam is the only way

Maa Salam

@ bab787

You are the one that quoted one Quanic verse Quran 30v30: So set (O Muhammed [saw]) your face towards the religion (of pure Islamic monotheism) Hanif (worship none but Allah alone) with which He has created mankind, no change let there be in Khalg Ilah (i.e. the religion of Allah) that is the straight religion but most men know not.

So pls let us stick to the Issue my brother it is Islam that you said is the perfect religion Remember you said if you see an animal anywhere has 2 eyes

you have seen you are wrong now you are running to where I did not quote.

supposing all of us are going to hell let us live all the Christian sect unless you want to use the Christian sect division to justify THE "PERFECT ISLAM"

Well Go ahead.

My bible says anyone that does not confess the Jesus Christ as God I should Depart from Such in Worship or likemindedness. I have debated almost all this and you can understand their stand view just I am understanding yours

Shalom In the Name if Jesus Jehovah

Dear brother.

I have told you to ask your cafe friend these questions

1. the Quran the shites read and sunnis
2. where they both face during prayer
3. the Surahs they both recite during prayers.


Maa Salam

Dear brother.

I saw something in your post.

Where did jesus say we should accept him as GOD?

babs787:

Where did jesus say we should accept him as GOD?

@babs787,

What do you understand by Jesus' own words in the following:

John 5:23 ~ "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

John 14:1 ~ "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."

How is God honoured - and was Jesus saying that men should honour the Son in adifferent way?

How does someone believe in GOD - and was Jesus asking people to believe in Him in different way?

@syrup

Respect is reciprocal. If you resort to being funny, babs will also do same (understood).

What do you understand by Jesus' own words in the following:

John 5:23 ~ "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

Did you see the word, "which hath sent him". Can God send himself?

John 14:1 ~ "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."

Does the above make jesus to be God? He is saying that since they believed in God, they should him also that God sent.

How is God honoured - and was Jesus saying that men should honour the Son in a different way?

Syrup, the above does not in anyway makes jesus to be God.

How does someone believe in GOD - and was Jesus asking people to believe in Him in different

You believe in God through His work etc
You believe in God by accepting the prophets, His books, His commandments, His will etc

and so on

syrup,you now have an unbeliever teaching you from the corrupted scriptures.
wonders shall never cease
Now you have seen what manner of man this character is.

How about this area while Jesus was answering the devil who tempted him.

Mat 4:6 and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:


'He shall give His angels charge over you,'


and,


'In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.'"*

Mat 4:7 Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'"* [/color][color=#990000]

@babs787,

babs787:

@syrup

Respect is reciprocal. If you resort to being funny, babs will also do same (understood).

Have I disrespected you in any regard in my last post? How and where have I resorted to being funny? If you're going to be funny under any excuses, please understand that there's nothing reciprocal about that trademark of yours. If to answer questions is the same thing as being disrespectful and funny in your hometown, it is no wonder you can hardly understand yourself.

babs787:

What do you understand by Jesus' own words in the following:

John 5:23 ~ "That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him."

Did you see the word, "which hath sent him". Can God send himself?

Very simply: what did you understand by Jesus' own words in John 5:23?
My question was about honouring the Son; and that's why I offered this afterwards: "How is God honoured - and was Jesus saying that men should honour the Son in a different way?"

babs787:

John 14:1 ~ "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me."

Does the above make jesus to be God? He is saying that since they believed in God, they should him also that God sent.

Again, a mechanical devise to insert words where they do not exist in order to cook up your convoluted ideas. There is no word as "sent" in John 14:1. Jesus was emphatically asking people to believe on Him in the same way that they believed in God; and this is clear in that verse as well as underscored in His teaching in other verses.

When Jesus asked people to believe in Him, they understood quite well that He was calling them not just to believe Him as the Sent One; but more than that, to put their faith in Him even as they put their faith in God! That is why in John 14:1, we read the first part of His statement about believing in God ("Ye believe in God" joined to believing in Jesus in the same way ("believe also in me"!

What does the phrase "believe also" in that verse convey to you?? Does it mean that Jesus was speaking about being "sent"; or rather, having faith in Him as people have faith in God There's no "sent" in that verse; and your argument falls flat.

babs787:

How is God honoured - and was Jesus saying that men should honour the Son in a different way?

Syrup, the above does not in anyway makes jesus to be God.

If Jesus was not Deity in exactly the same sense as the Father was God, could He then have spoken those words? If He was merely a "slave" as you Muslims believe, could He have categorically declared that all men should honour Him (the Son) even as (or, in the same way as) they honour the Father??

Regardless of your denials, what do the words spoken by Jesus in John 5:23 mean to you??

babs787:

How does someone believe in GOD - and was Jesus asking people to believe in Him in different

You believe in God through His work etc
You believe in God by accepting the prophets, His books, His commandments, His will etc

Whichever way you want to explain it, Jesus clearly said that in just the same way as one believes in God - that is the very same way that people should believe in Jesus Christ! That is precisely the meaning of John 14:1 - and no matter how you define/explain what it means to believe in God, it is just the same way that Jesus said people should believe in Him (the Son): no difference at all!

Yes, the bible does say that no man knows the time of Christ return, I think the main focus should be making sure that you are ready WHENEVER he comes back, Although the bible says He is coming soon, our timing is not God's timing and that soon has been there way before our time, Just make sure that He will be pleased with your actions and your heart when the time comes,

@babyosisi,

babyosisi:

syrup,you now have an unbeliever teaching you from the corrupted scriptures.
wonders shall never cease
Now you have seen what manner of man this character is.

Yep; but again, no cuase for alarm. In the last few posts it is obvious from his over-reaction and dribbling that he is desperately clutching at straws.

lol, syrup be easy now. Maybe there are thing in the closet that he is uncomfortable about