@Noetic: O da bi pe O ki ngbo nkon mii, ju eleyi ti o ti gbo lakoko!

« #29 on: Today at 01:19:06 PM »
has he not revealed his knowledge in the koran and haddith?
can we not deduce aisha's age from her statements in the haddith? must we deny this things, just in an attempt to make mohammed look good?

Again, true to form; it is Quran and not Koran! lol. Am just having fun with you. I know you are just trying to put pins and niddles and other obsructions on the path of the muslims. I know that you guys are goneho on calling it "K", yet other words with Q letter you never replaced it with K.

You can't deduce Aisha's by just the statement that they say she said, without considering all the factors of truthful elements with it! That is not a ahadith, based on the definition of ahadith. Secondly, if she was born prior to The year that begins Islam, the 40th year of the Prophet being alive and her father, Abu Bakr being 38 years old, we will have to say that she was at least 14 years old when her father made Hijra with the Prophet!

Noetic, you must have seen a 14 year old tall girl, in England? No? Here in America where for the most part everything goes, this summer you will see the people that young, boys and girls crying on TV to wanna be parents!

The look is not what matters. There is a landmark event to calculate her age. It is the advent of the Islam of Muhammad (AS), next door to her parents! For example, Nigerian Independence is a good landmark event to measure the ages of those of us born in the 1950's of Nigeria. Thinkabout Aisha's date of birth. Rather year of birth for a moment.

olabowale:

[size=16pt]You can't deduce Aisha's by just the statement that they say she said,[/size] without considering all the factors of truthful elements with it! That is not a ahadith, based on the definition of ahadith. Secondly, if she was born prior to The year that begins Islam, the 40th year of the Prophet being alive and her father, Abu Bakr being 38 years old, we will have to say that she was at least 14 years old when her father made Hijra with the Prophet!

I hope your imam just read what you wrote there. Are you not supposed to believe in them hadiths and koran again? Are you doubting the hadiths? funny

olabowale:

@Noetic: O da bi pe O ki ngbo nkon mii, ju eleyi ti o ti gbo lakoko! Again, true to form; it is Quran and not Koran! lol. Am just having fun with you. I know you are just trying to put pins and niddles and other obsructions on the path of the muslims. I know that you guys are goneho on calling it "K", yet other words with Q letter you never replaced it with K.

You can't deduce Aisha's by just the statement that they say she said, without considering all the factors of truthful elements with it! That is not a ahadith, based on the definition of ahadith. Secondly, if she was born prior to The year that begins Islam, the 40th year of the Prophet being alive and her father, Abu Bakr being 38 years old, we will have to say that she was at least 14 years old when her father made Hijra with the Prophet!

Noetic, you must have seen a 14 year old tall girl, in England? No? Here in America where for the most part everything goes, this summer you will see the people that young, boys and girls crying on TV to wanna be parents!

The look is not what matters. There is a landmark event to calculate her age. It is the advent of the Islam of Muhammad (AS), next door to her parents! For example, Nigerian Independence is a good landmark event to measure the ages of those of us born in the 1950's of Nigeria. Thinkabout Aisha's date of birth. Rather year of birth for a moment.

I have no reason to believe ur version of events. is there any thing in the haddith or koran that supports ur position?
Aisha stated in more than 10 places in the haddiths that mohammed shagged her at the age of 9. she did not make this statements as a kid, she said this when she was already an adult, when she was old enough to put all ur claims and assertions into consideration.

why should I believe u and not aisha?

Sir Olabowale, we do not need to make any mathematics for her age, hence there would be many mathematics on different issues in Islam, Verses such as TAHA, ALIF LAM MIN etc were solved through mathematics, and we Ahlu sunnah wal jama'a reject the claim because it has no basis in Islam, moreover the Prophet never Interpreted those verses.



Again, there is hadith that state the age of the Prophet"s death, if you are interested i can provide it to you, therefore the Prophet"s death wasn"t an analysis

Abuzola:

Sir Olabowale, we do not need to make any mathematics for her age, hence there would be many mathematics on different issues in Islam, Verses such as TAHA, ALIF LAM MIN etc were solved through mathematics, and we Ahlu sunnah wal jama'a reject the claim because it has no basis in Islam, moreover the Prophet never Interpreted those verses.



Again, there is hadith that state the age of the Prophet"s death, if you are interested i can provide it to you, therefore the Prophet"s death wasn"t an analysis

so do u agree that mohammed shagged aisha when she was 9?

@olabowale See Bukhari


Sahih Bukhari

   Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234



If Bukhari misinform, then what about this peoiple


 Sahih Muslim

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.  Book 8, Number 3310


Sunan Dawud

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.  Book 41, Number 4915:


So you see, i still remain on my stance that the genes of 1,430 years ago the era of the Prophet is far far to be compared with modern age. Scientific research  on fossils shows that man's genetical feature is dwinding from generation to generation

in order words mohammed shagged a 9 year old. . , , I get ur point.

at least u are honest for once.

Noetic why making jest, if i start another rampage in your section you will be accusing me of being a trouble maker, take time man

Abuzola:

Noetic why making jest, if i start another rampage in your section you will be accusing me of being a trouble maker, take time man

@Abuzola,

No need to start another jihad, your point was well understood, I mean the six-year old girl stuff

@Noetic2 and Nezan,

You guys are not being truly fair. I am kinda disappointed, wallahi.

muhsin:

@Noetic2 and Nezan,

You guys are not being truly fair. I am kinda disappointed, wallahi.

Haba mallam, be fair. You dont need to be disappointed, at least we are courteous people on this forum.

nezan; courtesy is not in your style. so please dont claim it for yourself.

Abuzola:

@olabowale See Bukhari


Sahih Bukhari

    Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234



If Bukhari misinform, then what about this peoiple


  Sahih Muslim

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.  Book 8, Number 3310


Sunan Dawud

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.  Book 41, Number 4915:


So you see, i still remain on my stance that the genes of 1,430 years ago the era of the Prophet is far far to be compared with modern age. Scientific research  on fossils shows that man's genetical feature is dwinding from generation to generation

all of them are liars
the truth is in the internet explanations according to Olabowole
This abuzola may be the only Muslim here that is sincere and not given to obfuscating the truth to make Islam look good.
If marrying little girls were unislamic and abhored by allah why would he give the rules regarding divorcing a girl who hasn't reached mernache? (age of menstruation)

There are over 37 different hadiths here that tell us aisha's age are they all liars or were they written by Christians?
and the countless scholars that confirm it,are they on Israeli payroll?
If they are all lies what makes the rest of the hadiths true?
You need only a male witness witness in an Islamic court but you question the testimony of 37 hadiths including aisha the bride herself ?
I hope allah is listening and reading olabowole's denials.


http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Quotations_from_the_Quran_and_the_Hadith_Aisha

@Abuzola: There was no riwaya; the chain of narration. And we do not have a clear picture of the narrators. Further, Ahadith by definition, are saying of the prophet (as), alone. No statement of others, except to say that we heard the prophet say so and so can be a ahadith. In the several ahadiths, according to $Osisi, none of them says that the prophet (AS) said that one should marry a six year or 7 year or 7 year, etc old person. The age of maturity, with the signs of it, being present is what is important. The signs of puberty includes the body changes, hair in private parts, menstrual period, etc. ($Osisi, this is your territoty so go for it).

In the case of Aisha (ra), one needs to be mindful about the fact that she was already born before Islam and her father being a convert to it, in the first year of this noble reigion. They, the Muhammads and the Abu Bakrs were neighbors and their young children were also reference of the age in dispute.

Further Aisha was already angaged to another man, long time before the prophet (AS) proposed about her (RA). Finaly, no single book can be faultless like the Quran. Otherwise, there will be two Qurans. Why do we have classifications of ahadith then, except to point to the authenticity or lack of it, in whatever the ahadith is all about. It can not disagrees with The Quran and can not go against the character value of the prophet if it is to be accepted as sound.

We do not have two islamic messenger or prophet. Muhammad was the last in both categories. Anyone, therefore can make mistakes. Allah says that the best meaning of an issue is revealed to people of knowledge and good heart. Allah further states that only a few may know a thing, by Him giving them knowledge; a blessing from Him.

In the Quran we see that the women who reach puberty, though not menstruating are considered on the issue of iddah. There is no way then that Aisha could have been married and her marriage was consumated by the prophet (AS), except that she reached puberty.

It is not the year that matters to me. It is her maturity of reaching puberty, which I am very clear that she reached. I only used her birth circumstances to draw out this fact of her maturity; puberty.

You people tend to deny some of your hadiths when it is convenient for you and quote some when it is convenient to do so. Why deny your holy writings? Olabowale is more guilty of this.

You also claim your koran is without error, but when I posted the numerous errors in the koran, your mods will keep on deleting them. So much for your claims

Sir olabowale, Bukhari is the most valid followed by Muslim then Abu dawud then Tirmidhi, i quoted 3 of them agreeing with her age, the 3 imam cannot be in err, mind you they all collected their hadiths at different periodic time, whatever they say is the truth, they were the one that narrated the hadith of invention, 'whosoever invent a lie concerning this deen will be in Hell'. One falsehood spoils thousand truth, why is it that it is only Aisha's age people doubt ? Obviously because of the mocking, and why didn't they reject any other hadith save the age matter. The truth must prevail and doesn't need any decoration. Sir olabowale, i agree she was mature thats why i wrap everything on gene.

How to perform ablution.
Quran 5:6
'wash your faces and ur hands up to the elbows, rub your heads and wash ur feet up to the ankles'


This not the full ablution, the hadith explain the Quran, it was bukhari, muslim, Abu dawud and tirmidhi that explain that washing the palm, mouth, nose and ear is required and done by the Prophet as well, do we reject this claim ? So lets be civic and ignore all kind of excuses to Aisha's age, the truth will remain the truth

@Abuzola: I am not shy of what the prophet (AS) did, or what he allowed people, companions (RA). I am grateful to Alah for blessing mewith Muhammad. I dreamt about him, before. The dream, since 2002, remains vivid as if as it is an event in front of me, this minute. I am not an apologist!

#48 on: Today at 11:34:52 AM »
Sir olabowale, Bukhari is the most valid followed by Muslim then Abu dawud then Tirmidhi, i quoted 3 of them agreeing with her age, the 3 imam cannot be in err, mind you they all collected their hadiths at different periodic time, whatever they say is the truth, they were the one that narrated the hadith of invention, 'whosoever invent a lie concerning this deen will be in Hell'. One falsehood spoils thousand truth, why is it that it is only Aisha's age people doubt ? Obviously because of the mocking, and why didn't they reject any other hadith save the age matter. The truth must prevail and doesn't need any decoration. Sir olabowale, i agree she was mature thats why i wrap everything on gene.

Allah's book is what is faultless. Anyone, can make mistake. All persons can make mistake, on asingle issue. The Muslim scholars who Allah gave knowledge, not being apologetic, have revisited the ahadith and used the very fact that her father, Abu Bakr (RA) became muslim, very early in the months of the birth of Muhammad's prophethood, yet Aisha was born at least a year or more before that event! This alone, is what prompt me to disagree with the collection of what people say is Ahadith. Truly, ahadith is coming from Muhammad (AS), narrated by Sahabahs, narrated by Tabihins, Tabi tabihin, etc, until it reaches the writer. Thats ahadith. Why is ahadith being called daif, all the way to the ahsan? It is because of the probability of its being a thing that will come from Muhammad (AS), on one hand, and the chain of narration. Was the chain of narration just one or many, and the memory of the individual in the chain.

When we read that the prophet (AS) by some ahadith says "raisin heads", referring to black people, we know that he does not speak like that. Afterall, Islam came to elevate mankind. And we see it that when an arab man called Sayidina Bin Rabah, the Muhadhin Rasulullah "bad name" Muhammad (AS) got upset and told the arab that what happened that he had not left Jahaliyya alone?

To me that speaks volume. The reality is that people when they get angry they may speak badly to their brother or sister. That has been demostrated by the rancor of the Arab man towards Sayidina Bilal BIn Rahbah. When people want to put some other people dwn, they can call them something very generally known about them. Such was the reference to raisin heads about Black people because of the kinkiness/coarseness of the hair texture. When people have incomplete picture, one may leave out essential information out. To me the birth time of Aisha relative to the beginning is very important, just like people have used the time of the birth of prophet Muhammad (AS) to determine his age! Everyone is aware that he was born in the year of the Abraha and his elephan army invation of Makka!

Show me the time of the birth of Aisha, and there is no apology from me. My Islam, Alhamdulillah is first. It is a rock. No one or circumstances InshaAllah can shake it.

@Nezan: « #47 on: Today at 10:24:05 AM »

You people tend to deny some of your hadiths when it is convenient for you and quote some when it is convenient to do so. Why deny your holy writings? Olabowale is more guilty of this.

Nezan, do you have something similar to ahadith? Ahadith is the saying of the prophet (AS) ancored on the report authority of the companion(s) (RA) who heard it. Oh sorry, its the Bible that will be equal to it! My bad. lol. So if I use the same level of analytical reasoning, on the Bible as to the ahadith, then I will find that While Jesus did not say that he was God the Creator, it is the same that Muhammad (AS) did not say Aisha (RA) was 6 or 9 years old before he married and consumated the marriage. Just like Jesus said that I and God are one, since he was the representative and the speaker for that God at that time, is the same way that Muhammad's statement about young girl did not mean underage, prepubertic female. Heck, am old enough to be a grandfather, and older than many many grandfathers and grand mothers, yet I just referred to myself as an Ijebu boy. Bill Clinton referred himself as a "Boy from Hope." Is there no wisdom in these for those who seek wisdom?

You also claim your koran is without error, but when I posted the numerous errors in the koran, your mods will keep on deleting them. So much for your claims

Do you read english at all? Does it mean that a girl who has not menstruated has not reached Puberty? What if she reached it in the middle of the month, and her menstrual circle is just in the next 5 days, after she reached that pivocal milestone of maturity? The only sign of maturity if you even streamline it to menstruation, id just the confirmation of it, when the period is experienced. It does not mean that she just reached it at that time, in the same sense that when a woman gets pregnant, the sign of pregnancy is what follows. The pregnancy did not just start when she felt the sign(s)! Thats the case of your misread of non menstruating as being underage.

When i realized that I had sperm, I whad experience that my voice was already broken, long time. I already saw signs of hair in my private parts. The sperm just confirmed it, but was not the start of my being a man instead of being a boy!

olabowale:

Oh sorry, its the Bible that will be equal to it! My bad. lol. So if I use the same level of analytical reasoning, on the Bible as to the ahadith, then I will find that While Jesus did not say that he was God the Creator, it is the same that Muhammad (AS) did not say Aisha (RA) was 6 or 9 years old before he married and consumated the marriage. Just like Jesus said that I and God are one, since he was the representative and the speaker for that God at that time, is the same way that Muhammad's statement about young girl did not mean underage, prepubertic female.

You can call the Bible what you like-a hadith or whatever, but the fact remains that we christians can never deny part of a Bible simply because it failed to butress our point in a particular argument, because the words contained therein are sacred.

I also told you at a point in another post that we Christians dont consider the Bible in bits, it flows.

While your hadiths proved that Aisha was a baby at that time of marriage, you are finding it hard to accept.

Pity.

olabowale:

Do you read english at all? Does it mean that a girl who has not menstruated has not reached Puberty? What if she reached it in the middle of the month, and her menstrual circle is just in the next 5 days, after she reached that pivocal milestone of maturity? The only sign of maturity if you even streamline it to menstruation, id just the confirmation of it, when the pd is experienced. It does not mean that she just reached it at that time, in the same sense that when a woman gets pregnant, the sign of pregnancy is what follows. The pregnancy did not just start when she felt the sign(s)! Thats the case of your misread of non menstruating as being underage.

When i realized that I had sperm, I whad experience that my voice was already broken, long time. I already saw signs of hair in my private parts. The sperm just confirmed it, but was not the start of my being a man instead of being a boy!

This has no bearing on the abrogations in the koran. I cant see how they relate at all.

It's amazing that abuzola is now the one schooling Olabs on the hadiths.
Let him keep denying the truth.
abuzola,click on my link and see 37 fifferent hadiths from Bukhari,abu dawood,al tabari and the rest of them about aisha's age.

Nezan:

You people tend to deny some of your hadiths when it is convenient for you and quote some when it is convenient to do so. Why deny your holy writings? Olabowale is more guilty of this.

You also claim your koran is without error, but when I posted the numerous errors in the koran, your mods will keep on deleting them. So much for your claims

na today?
there is no place in the Koran that says to stone adulterers and fornicators to death ,it is in the hadiths and Muslims still abide by it.
There's a Muslim sect that rates the Koran far above the hadiths and would deny the hadiths at a whim,maybe that's Olabowole's sect and leaning.

Alright sir olabowale, can you quote a hadith that says aisha was twenty something ?

Giving me a definition of ahadith? Will the final person have to be anyone else, except Muhammad (AS)? Lets think about it for a moment. Can there be a statement of a sahaba, male or female (RA Jamaia) that could be called ahadith, if it wasnot a statement of Muhammad (AS)? Let us start from there. I will email you an article this evening about this same subject "Aisha's age".

Why not post it here so we could discuss it generally and people will learn one or two things

olabowale:

Giving me a definition of ahadith? Will the final person have to be anyone else, except Muhammad (AS)? Lets think about it for a moment. Can there be a statement of a sahaba, male or female (RA Jamaia) that could be called ahadith, if it wasnot a statement of Muhammad (AS)? Let us start from there. I will email you an article this evening about this same subject "Aisha's age".

just answer his question and post a haddith where aisha said that she is twenty-plus. Articles are not allowed

Abuzola:

Alright sir olabowale, can you quote a hadith that says aisha was twenty something ?

Abuzola:

Why not post it here so we could discuss it generally and people will learn one or two things

I am waiting for that hadith too.
We already have about 37 that say aisha was 6 at marriage playing with dolls ,playing hide and seek with her friends,and having nurses wash her face, (things only a child would do or have done) can we have just one that tells us she was 20,then follow it up by telling us why Mohammed waited 3 years to consummate the marriage to a twenty something year old.

where is olabs, his tails and his haddith. . . .

You christians should back off, it doesn't concern you

@Abuzola: The first ahadith is about the age of people who were permit to go to war, during the life time of the prophet. Below is a proof that Aisha was old enough to go to war during Badr:

According to hadith in Bukhari and Muslim, Aisha is said to have joined Muhammad on the raid that culminated in the Battle of Badr, in 624 CE. However, because no one below the age of fifteen was allowed to accompany raiding parties, Aisha should have been at least fifteen in 624 CE and thus at least thirteen when she was married following the Hijra in 622 CE.

Later on, I will give you proof that no one was allowed to join in war, except they reach the age of puberty. Even David, as a lad was tested about his age, before they allowed him, under King Saul, to go to war, only for his bravery and we know that Goliat was slaughtered as a result of it.


Consider the following tracts from Sahih Bukhari:

[size=14px]The boy attaining the age of puberty and the validity of their witness and the Statement of Allâh:
"And when the children among you attain the age of puberty, then let them also ask for permission (to enter)." Qur'ân 24:59.

Al Mughira said, "I attained puberty at the age of twelve." The attaining of puberty by women is with the start of menses, as is referred to by the Statement of Allâh: "Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them prescribed period if you have any doubts (about their periods) is three months, " [Qur'ân, 65:4]

, Al-Hasan bin Salih said, "I saw a neighbour of mine who became a grandmother at the age of twenty-one." [The note for this reference says: "This woman attained puberty at the age of nine and married to give birth to a daughter at ten; the daughter had the same experience."][/size]

(source: http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Polemics/aishah.htm)

Oh, and not forgetting to mention that it is very possible even in todays society for a girl of nine to give birth to a child:Thus there is no reason whatsoever why Aisha (r.a.) didn't reach the age of puberty at the age of nine. You have to only take a very hostile stance to make such a claim with no proof whatsoever.

Case closed

According to another narrative in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why we should not accept this narrative to be more accurate.

"Ayesha (ra) said: I was a young girl, when verse 46 of Surah Al-Qamar, [the 54th chapter of the Qur'an], was revealed. (Sahih Bukhari, kitabu'l-tafsir, Arabic, Bab Qaulihi Bal al-sa`atu Maw`iduhum wa'l-sa`atu adha' wa amarr)



Heres another proof

Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah -- the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH -- the time she most likely got married.

The original statement in Tabari, its translation and reference follows:

"All four of his [Abu Bakr's] children were born of his two wives -- the names of whom we have already mentioned -- during the pre-Islamic period."(Tarikhu'l-umam wa'l-mamlu'k, Al-Tabari, Vol 4, Pg 50, Arabic, Dara'l-fikr, Beirut, 1979)

Tabari has a lot of weight. His history is considered the most authentic out of all the early Imams. Some may say hes higher than Bukhari because Bukhari was only a compiler, as Tarabi was a compiler, narrator and a historian himself. If he says something (like aisha being in puberty) VERY rarely is he wrong. This is not one of those times. His writings are often held side-by-side with Bukhari and other scholars.