Holy shit


1. Yes i know the catholic church is heretic.
2. Yes i know the catholic church is full of lies.
3. Yes i know most faithful catholics are hopelessly brainwashed.

However i just stumbled on an information (i think through nairaland).

In summary, the information says that catholic church says certain parts of the Bible is not true i.e. The Bible is lying and the Catholic Church is telling the truth.


Wow this is really something.

Below is the exact quotation from the website that reported the news and also the reference to the website.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece


THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible.

In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language” and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”

Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our children”, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences” in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.”

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.”

In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context.

They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.

The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.”

A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, It’s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly.

That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.”

BELIEVE IT OR NOT

UNTRUE

Genesis ii, 21-22

So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

Genesis iii, 16

God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

Matthew xxvii, 25

The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”

Revelation xix,20

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”

TRUE

Exodus iii, 14

God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”

Leviticus xxvi,12

“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”

Exodus xx,1-17

The Ten Commandments

Matthew v,7

The Sermon on the Mount

Mark viii,29

Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ

Luke i

The Virgin Birth

John xx,28

Proof of bodily resurrection






Can someone please confirm whether or not this is true , cus i want to know whether or not the catholic church has started to blatantly tear out pages of the bible they do not agree with. Yes i know they have been doing it in secret and under the cover of darkness, however i just want to confirm whether or not anyone has an official proclamation from them concerning the above accussation against them.

I would not be suprised if sooner or later and in like 200yrs from now, it might be possible for the catholic church to claim that the whole bible is not true and that their church tradition is the only true thing.

Wow how does @lady and @chukwudi get to have peace of mind with all this kind of nonsense going on within what they claim to believe.

Thank you.

Oh! my friend, i must tell you the truth, you need a Psychologist before it gets out of hand here in nairaland.


and what do you have to say about these:

MAIDUGURI, Nigeria – The leader of the Islamist sect blamed for days of violence in northern Nigeria has been shot and killed while in police custody, officials said Thursday.


Seeking to impose Islamic Shariah law throughout this multi-religious country, the militants attacked police stations, churches, prisons and government buildings in a wave of violence that began Sunday in Borno and quickly spread to three other northern states.


President Umaru Yar'Adua said that security agents had been ordered to attack when the movement started gathering fighters from nearby states at its sprawling Maiduguri compound in preparation for [b]"the holy war."[/b]

@Post
Didn't the catholic ghurch compile and produce the original version of the bible wich we use today? Don't they have several other authentic scripture which they refused to include in the bible because they wee considered fr the priviledge few? Do you think the christianity we are practiscisng today is what the apostles practised? Don't deceive your self mordern christianity today is based on the catholic bible which we use various editions/ translations of so you can't possibly know better than them. If they admit their compilation is not entirely accurate who are you or any other christian leader or preacher to judge them when you don't have acess to the original works[ and the cetholics do]. All you have is the work [bible] they produced so in effect you can't know it better than them. If they confirm it is not entirely accurate it puts a lot of things into perspective and confirms what some of us have always known and that is man as always manipulated scriptures to suit their purpose.

May kelly:

Oh! my friend, i must tell you the truth, you need a Psychologist before it gets out of hand here in nairaland.


and what do you have to say about these:

MAIDUGURI, Nigeria – The leader of the Islamist sect blamed for days of violence in northern Nigeria has been shot and killed while in police custody, officials said Thursday.


Seeking to impose Islamic Shariah law throughout this multi-religious country, the militants attacked police stations, churches, prisons and government buildings in a wave of violence that began Sunday in Borno and quickly spread to three other northern states.


President Umaru Yar'Adua said that security agents had been ordered to attack when the movement started gathering fighters from nearby states at its sprawling Maiduguri compound in preparation for [b]"the holy war."[/b]

@maykelly how u dey

By the way i do not know the correlation between your statement and the topic, please expanciate.

@jagoon

- Learn about ancient history and church history is part of my hubby, hence i am sorry to point out to you that one of things which you said as regards the bible and the catholic church[b] is actually not true[/b].

- Actually the catholic church did not write the bible (some founding fathers of the catholic church only contributed to the compilation of the bible), there were also other non-catholic churches that contibuted to the compilation of the bible (and i am sure you have never heard those ones claiming to have written the bible in contrast to the lie and heresy of the catholic church claiming to have written the bible). there was disagreement during the compilation process obviously and understandably due to heretic teachings by some people during the early centuries of the church.
The scriptures had already been written even before there was anything known as the catholic church.

- Finally the logic that other people do not and cannot know the scriptures or the truth about the scriptures is very faulty, simply because if it were true, then it means the pharasees (who were excellent students of ancient scriptures) were right and the apostles were wrong if one considers the scholarship and context of their own time and era.

- Also there is fatally flawed foundation upon which your statemets were built, this faulty logic stems from the use of the word "they" when you said and i quote: "if they admit their compilation is entirely accurate". Your logic shows that you are assuming that the early church is the same thing as the catholic church. Please not Sir, that you are very wrong. Infact that early church is not the same thing as the catholic church (please check your history books for confirmation, cus i do not want to waste time and effort going through that one here). The catholic church was merely an apostate church that had military power, hence it was able to almost wipe out all dissenting voices that do not agree with their views and opinion. Truth is not a function of popularity or numbers, hence cause the catholic church used military might and coercion and brainwashing and intimidation to dominate nations, peoples and countries over thousands of years does not mean it is true and right (same way that the duration and number games of the islamist does not make them true).


The heresy of the catholic church during and after the compilation is partly to blame for the early breakup in the early church after the apostles had all died.

So please do not be annoyed if i choose not to respond to any statement from you that is related to whether

------------------------------------------------

@topic

Back to the topic, can someone please provide me with information on how to confirm the report of the topic, i want to be able to confirm from catholics themselves before forming an opinion. I am not comfortable forming an opinion based on hearsay.

Are they lying?
At least the morons who compiled and edited the joke book you call a bible are now admitting it's false.
Mr I-know-all would as usual claim to know more than them.
Let me guess. . .the "creator" revealed it to you again this time, right?

Tudór:

Are they lying?
At least the morons who compiled and edited the joke book you call a bible are now admitting it's false.
Mr I-know-all would as usual claim to know more than them.
Let me guess. . .the "creator" revealed it to you again this time, right?

1. You know i do not have time for diatribe and melodrama so please do not bother yourself.

2. I do not know it all, however i am not afraid to laid bear that which i understand and then also provide sources for adequate academic discussion. This attitude of insulting people that you have taking upon yourself is not wise. At least try to train yourself to engage in a discussion without insults. At least notice that i have disagreed with @jagoon without insulting him. Haba i do not think it would hurt to learn to do that don't you think.

3. Because i do not know it all is that reason i asked for positive contribution to the thread, so please you are welcomed if you have something positive to contribute, otherwise please do not derail the thread, because it would become useless once people start discussing something unrelated on it.

thank you.

Tudór:

Are they lying?
At least the morons who compiled and edited the joke book you call a bible are now admitting it's false.
Mr I-know-all would as usual claim to know more than them.
Let me guess. . .the "creator" revealed it to you again this time, right?

His black jesus revealed it to him in his dreams. There was no bible until the catholic church decided to put it together through votes, so i wonder why No2atheism is crying all over the place. Is he trying to tell us that he knows the bible more than the people that put it together and brought it into existence?

@No2Atheism

The truth is that you can never make a mockery of the catholic church without making a miockery of christianity itself.The history of christianity cannever be seperated from the history of the catholic church.

The Bible never existed until the fourt century AD ,we had more than 100 scricptures that existed as seperate books ,some of them actually contradicted themselves,it was this same catholic church that you so most detest that sat down to select the books that got into that document we know call the bible.

Most of the scriptures did not disclose their authors ,The entire gospels,Acts and the letter of the hebrews did not disclose thier authors it was the catholic church that told us who wrote this books.If in the end it turns out that the catholic church is a delvilish organisation as you want many to beleive then all of christendom are going down since they rely on the catholic canonised scriptures for their doctrines.

The jewish council of jamnia in AD 90 rejected the entire new testaments and Jesus christ himself calling Jesus a false prophet ,It was the catholic church that defined most of today's christian teachings notably the trinity.

No2Atheism:

1. You know i do not have time for diatribe and melodrama so please do not bother yourself.

Oh shut up. You claim melodrama when you've got nothing sensible to say.

2. I do not know it all, however i am not afraid to laid bear that which i understand and then also provide sources [/b]for adequate academic discussion.

I wonder what kind of fellow refers to what a "creator" told him as source. We're not morons here!

This attitude of insulting people that you have taking upon yourself is not wise. At least try to train yourself to engage in a discussion without insults. At least notice that i have disagreed with @jagoon without insulting him. Haba i do not think it would hurt to learn to do that don't you think.

Shut up again!
Where did i use insults you LIAR.

3. Because i do not know it all is that reason i asked for [b]positive contribution to the thread, so please you are welcomed if you have something positive to contribute, otherwise please do not derail the thread, because it would become useless once people start discussing something unrelated on it.

thank you.

We all know you define "positive contributions" as any post supporting your baseless hogwash conspiracy theories concocted by reading and interpreting history upside down.

If you're looking for "positive contribution" go to the psych ward.

toneyb:

His black jesus revealed it to him in his dreams. There was no bible until the catholic church decided to put it together through votes, so i wonder why No2atheism is crying all over the place. Is he trying to tell us that he knows the bible more than the people that put it together and brought it into existence?

1. Obvious melodrama that does not warrant a response, since this same question has been tackled over and over again using both biblical verses as references and also using historical context of how is is true.

Inferiority complex is quite a sad thing don't you think   , as such i doubt if either of your would accept as true the academic and biblical argument put forward about the race and skin colour of the messiah. Even truthfull whitemen have gone on video record to say that they know the Messiah is not white. Yet here we are still bickering about the same issue.

What can i say, but for you to believe what you will.

Mine is to give you the information necessary to break you off the dogmatic part. If u agree fine, if you don't its still fine.

chukwudi44:

@No2Atheism

The truth is that you can never make a mockery of the catholic church without making a miockery of christianity itself.The history of christianity cannever be seperated from the history of the catholic church.

The Bible never existed until the fourt century AD ,we had more than 100 scricptures that existed as seperate books ,some of them  actually contradicted themselves,it was this same catholic church that you so most detest that sat down to select the books that got into that document we know call the bible.

Most of the scriptures did not disclose their authors ,The entire gospels,Acts and the letter of the hebrews did not disclose thier authors it was the catholic church that told us who wrote this books.If in the end it turns out that the catholic church is a delvilish organisation as you want many to beleive then all of christendom are going down since they rely on the catholic canonised scriptures for their doctrines.

The jewish council of jamnia in AD 90 rejected the entire new testaments and Jesus christ himself calling Jesus a false prophet ,It was the catholic church that defined most of today's christian teachings notably the trinity.

1. The ancient isrealites during the time of the Messiah denied him and called for his crucifixion, so stop blow hot or cold about whether or not some jews accepted the new testament scriptures or not. that is irrelevant, considering that it is on record that certain jews were vehemently opposed to the spread of the Gospel hence your ascertion does not hold water.

2. All you have just said is still predominantly refering to the issue of compilation and not writing. I repeat the Catholic church did not write the Bible, catholic church founders were merely part of the people who contributed to the compilation of the bible (other people also contributed and never blew their own trumpet and history shows that heresy of the catholic church and its adherents contributed to schisms in the early after the Apostles).

-------------------------------------------------

@please toneyb,chukwudi, tudor kindly do your best to either contribute to thread and please stop derailing, as i would no longer respond to any of your post so long as i notice that i has nothing to add to the topic.

The topic is asking for an official source to confirm whether or not what was reported that the catholic church said is true or not.

If u have something to contribute please do if not please do not derail the thread.

Thank you.

Tudór:

Oh shut up. You claim melodrama when you've got nothing sensible to say.
I wonder what kind of fellow refers to what a "creator" told him as source. We're not morons here!
Shut up again!
Where did i use insults you LIAR.
We all know you define "positive contributions" as any post supporting your baseless hogwash conspiracy theories concocted by reading and interpreting history upside down.

If you're looking for "positive contribution" go to the psych ward.

Points noted now trug along unless off course you still have more vitroil to vocalise to the thinking public.

No2Atheism:

1. Obvious melodrama that does not warrant a response, since this same question has been tackled over and over again using both biblical verses as references and also using historical context of how is is true.

Inferiority complex is quite a sad thing don't you think , as such i doubt if either of your would accept as true the academic and biblical argument put forward about the race and skin colour of the messiah. Even truthfull whitemen have gone on video record to say that they know the Messiah is not white. Yet here we are still bickering about the same issue.

What can i say, but for you to believe what you will.

Mine is to give you the information necessary to break you off the dogmatic part. If u agree fine, if you don't its still fine.

1. The ancient isrealites during the time of the Messiah denied him and called for his crucifixion, so stop blow hot or cold about whether or not some jews accepted the new testament scriptures or not. that is irrelevant, considering that it is on record that certain jews were vehemently opposed to the spread of the Gospel hence your ascertion does not hold water.

2. All you have just said is still predominantly refering to the issue of compilation and not writing. I repeat the Catholic church did not write the Bible, catholic church founders were merely part of the people who contributed to the compilation of the bible (other people also contributed and never blew their own trumpet and history shows that heresy of the catholic church and its adherents contributed to schisms in the early after the Apostles).

-------------------------------------------------

@please toneyb,chukwudi, tudor kindly do your best to either contribute to thread and please stop derailing, as i would no longer respond to any of your post so long as i notice that i has nothing to add to the topic.

The topic is asking for an official source to confirm whether or not what was reported that the catholic church said is true or not.

If u have something to contribute please do if not please do not derail the thread.

Thank you.

if you have nothing to contribute stop derailing the growth of catholicism

Where were the exponents of your black Jesus when catholics compiled the bible?

Mind you the Jesus described in the catholic canonised bible is not black ,so I suggest you dump the catholic canonised bible and go and canonise your own bible that would describe your black Jesus.

No2Atheism:


Even truthfull whitemen have gone on video record to say that they know the Messiah is not white. Yet here we are still bickering about the same issue.

Truthful white men told you that your imaginary messiah is black eh? Good luck in your bizzare delusion.

No2Atheism:

Points noted now trug along unless off course you still have more vitroil to vocalise to the thinking public.

Loon-ey tunes. . . .

No2Atheism:

@jagoon
- Actually the catholic church did not write the bible (some founding fathers of the catholic church only contributed to the compilation of the bible), there were also other non-catholic churches that contibuted to the compilation of the bible (and i am sure you have never heard those ones claiming to have written the bible in contrast to the lie and heresy of the catholic church claiming to have written the bible). there was disagreement during the compilation process obviously and understandably due to heretic teachings by some people during the early centuries of the church.
[b]The scriptures had already been written even before there was anything known as the catholic church.

Bros no one as claimed on this forum that the catholic church wrote the bible what i clearly stated is that they compiled it, an that remains a historical fact. That aside i do not confuse the early church which existed in the 1st century AD with th catholic church which started in the 4th century AD. The early church NEVER had a bible rather they relied on different writings which they considered as scripture, some of which are not even in our current bible. It was the catholic church that compiled the original of the bible which we used today all though it as been editted and translated several times by others but all the same the bible as we have it today has it's roots in the catholic church. There were actually some other bibles that were compiled parralelly with the catholic bible such as the coptic bible and the ethopian bible which contains books not found in our bible in their canon and i am quite certain if you came across them you would reject them as heretical just becos it doesn'y conform with the bible the catholics handed down to your progenitors. The truth is that as chukwudi said you can't divulge our mordern christianity from the catholic institution

@ Chukwudi44

Do you now the difference between compiling the bible and writing it? The catholic church simply put together what was already written by the prophets and apostles. So quit trying to make the deceptive catholic church appear important, because it is not. As a matter of fact not even such an act in itself can make up for the evils that were committed by the Catholic church against true Christians.

So beat it,

don't say things u dnt knw abt d church lest d anger of God be upon u.

Jagoon:

@Post
[size=20pt]Didn't the catholic ghurch compile and produce the original version of the bible wich we use today? Don't they have several other authentic scripture which they refused to include in the bible because they wee considered fr the priviledge few?[/size] Do you think the christianity we are practiscisng today is what the apostles practised? Don't deceive your self mordern christianity today is based on the catholic bible which we use various editions/ translations of so you can't possibly know better than them. If they admit their compilation is not entirely accurate who are you or any other christian leader or preacher to judge them when you don't have acess to the original works[ and the cetholics do]. All you have is the work [bible] they produced so in effect you can't know it better than them. If they confirm it is not entirely accurate it puts a lot of things into perspective and confirms what some of us have always known and that is man as always manipulated scriptures to suit their purpose.

You have said it all, and hence this should be the end of the topic



Knowing this though, Christianity which requires a great deal of discipline, ritual and hardwork, involves an awareness of the transcendental and the aim of discovering an inner dimension of one's being. God cannot be comprehended or described within the limitation of language. And like music, it penetrates one's being without the need for explanation, so this revelation about missing/hidden scriptures should not stop Christians from practising their religion