malvisguy212:
how did you debunk it ? By saying, its did not happened or its a lie ?

PastorAIO:


You're right, it's none of your business. I can bet you that you'll find no thread where I've defended atheism with all I've got. I can bet my last pant. However you might find thread where I attack BS. My concern is with bullcrap whether spewed by christians or atheists. You'll find me opposing you a lot less if you stop spewing poo. Try it and see.

A Pastor means a shepherd, someone who guides. Christianity does not hold copyright on the word Pastor. The only thing I despise is Bullcrap. I can only despise your christianity if it is full of crap.

Lilbrown007:
Simple We Don't Believe In Miracle Miracle Only Applies To Xtians Get It?? We Only Base Our Assumption From Fact And Theory's N We Will Keep On Doing Research

malvisguy212:
christians say everything happened through a first cause we call God, a supernatural event. But atheist deny this, they don't have answers to this questions YET they believe it.

malvisguy212:
I careless if you answer the question sincerely or not, I ask so that the question be seal in your heart.

You call christianity bullcrap because that is the way you fell. One man hate rice another love it, just like me, I don't eat chicken others do, does it mean chicken is bullcrap ?

malvisguy212:
you're the ignorance one here, the internet, nairaland precisely has a big influence in your atheism, if not for nairaland, I believe many of you would not be an atheist. Many of you will deny it, but you know its true.

@op, if you're not a soul, then you are just one piece of rock, you're not a moral agent, if you do evil, you are just dancing to the molecule of your brain. Intelligent atheist indeed.

lepasharon:
OP I guess you don't believe in ghosts then

ikbnice:
this is the chief reason why some religions banned education and most of the religions frown at free-thought.

ValentineMary:
Nice post cloudgoddess. Modern knowledge has made us see the foolishness of what we once thought wise. People even believe that dream is the journey of the soul (they told me this a lot while a christian) but modern science has shown that it is just an interaction between our conscious, unconscious and sub conscious mind. That's why a man born blind can never have a dream of using his sight. We can only dream of the use the senses active or once active.

taurus25:
ur case is willful ignorance and nothing more

johnydon22:


He should keep his unbelief to himself but you are allowed to throw your belief in public?

why do you hope to deny others the right to criticize openly the very idea you pour out openly?

cloudgoddess:
The existence of a soul is a belief held by most religions. The concept was born from early mythology, as the animating force within all living beings (soul, "anima", animate) thought to depart upon death to an eternal, unseen realm. After Christianity arose, the immortal soul became a trait exclusive to humans, perhaps due to the doctrine that humans are superior to animals in the eyes of Yahweh.............


How does a soul make sense?

Sarassin:

Absolutely love your post.
For me, I do not see an imperative for a Soul.
I believe that what we term the soul is essentially our awareness, living cells are capable of recreating past patterns through a molecular memory which is passed on from one cell to another so that a new one can reproduce the behaviour of its parents. In my view, our awareness, the sum total of all our molecular memory is essentially a biological event, the main variable is the degree of awareness.
We now know that living things have their own electrical fields, I call it a "Life field" this life field seems to be the sum-total effect of all the other small electrical charges that occur as a result of chemical events that continually take place in the body, we know too that changes in the field are not random but connected with basic biological events, for instance, the field would be influenced by disruptions to the body or organism produced by disease. This life field in conjunction with our awareness is what I believe the ancients conjectured to be the soul.
The field persists as long as life lasts, and in many cases can transcend death itself. It undergoes regular small changes in healthy subjects and more dramatic aberrations in an ill or diseased person. What is more changes in the life field follow a cosmic rhythm. Experiments have shown that the life field reaches a maximum positive value at full moon and a negative value two weeks later, it is very much a product of life, possessing an organising ability that seems virtually a template, that serves to lay down the form and function of the developing organism. It is Design for Destiny.

Amplitron:

Interesting.
What you describe as Life Field matches the description of what some people call aura. My concerns on such proposition are as follows
- for it to exist the physical body must exist first to create the life field.
- it will have to grow with your body size. A fat person will have a fat life field.I can already start imagining what some people's life field look like.lol
- this life field must be bound to the body creating it and thus cannot on its own go anywhere. In fact after death it must weaken as all body cells die one after the other till there no cell and hence no field or life field.
- if a person loses his limbs and may be a few organs along the line will his life field be updated with his new shape? If it transcends death does the amputated life field not mean disadvantage?


Kindly help expatiate on how this life field proposition accommodates those exceptions.

Sarassin:

Good points, I am inclined to believe that the Life field is distinct from the Aura. The Life field is itself a product of life, providing an accurate electronic mirror image in which certain details are detectable before they become apparent to our other senses. But we also know that a much larger pulsating field surrounds the body, imagine an electromagnetic energy cloud, this is the Aura. Our bodies radiate on a wavelength just outside our normal vision and our eyes are sensitive to light that lies between the wavelengths of 380 and 800 Nanometers, but with high intensity artificial sources we can extend this at either end of the spectrum into the areas of infra-red and ultraviolet light.
The aura unlike the life field can be seen surrounding living things by anyone sensitive at the infra-red end of the spectrum, there is also the “cheat” method of 'sensitizing' the eyes by looking through special chemical solutions. The Life field though cannot be seen but it can be easily detected and manipulated.
The electric field and the aura are of course bound to the body and do not go anywhere of their own accord, the Life field in particular may persist for a while even after the body is deceased and undergoes chemical decomposition, not so, the aura which will lose it hue and colours rather quickly and dissipate. The electric field does not take a new adjusted form after loss of say, a limb we know that some people who have had a leg amputated report that they can still sense it and even complain of itches in absent toes. This is due to the persistence of old sensory patterns in the brain.

malvisguy212:
getting something out of nothing is what ? Magic ? Material out from immaterial is what ? Alright, you don't believe in miracle but you believe in luck. Reconcile luck and miracle. You can be easily manipulated by satan, but me. I AM BIGGER AND WELL PROTECTED, the devil cannot make me to think the way you do. We are opposite. *bless thine hand O God*

Sarassin:

Absolutely love your post.
For me, I do not see an imperative for a Soul.
I believe that what we term the soul is essentially our awareness, It is Design for Destiny.

Amplitron:

Interesting.
What you describe as Life Field matches the description of what some people call aura. My concerns on such proposition are as follows
- for it to exist the physical body must exist first to create the life field.
- it will have to grow with your body size. A fat person will have a fat life field.I can already start imagining what some people's life field look like.lol
accommodates those exceptions.

Sarassin:

Good points, I am inclined to believe that the Life field is distinct from the Aura. The Life field is itself a product of life, providing an accurate electronic mirror image in
electric field does not take a new adjusted form after loss of say, a limb we know that some people who have had a leg amputated report that they can still sense it and even complain of itches in absent toes. This is due to the persistence of old sensory patterns in the brain.

PastorAIO:



For me, this is the most interesting exchange of posts that I've seen in NL for a long time, maybe ever since I've joined.

My question for Sarassin, Could the life forces of different individuals blur into each other at the edges? Ultimately making them coterminous with each other?

Amplitron:

Many thanks for the follow up explanation. I now see that matches what some people call etheric body just that in yours it is bound to the body and cannot detach to go anywhere. It simply dies too.
This does not match the description of the soul which supposedly predates the physical body and supposedly survives death and continue to live on independent of the body it inhabited.
Also, there is no science to support a field not readjusting to the new shape of a physical body in case of loss of limbs. Feeling pain in an absent toe can be fully accounted for by neuroscience without requiring that the life field remain as it was before the loss of limb.

Sarassin:


Thank you PastorAIO. Tough question, scientists tell us that the life field as we know it is unique to its host (at least until death) Coterminousity implies an eventual sharing of the same host, what the old Greeks used to refer to as “Metempsychosis” or in plain biblical speak “Transmigration” I see no evidence for this.

Yet we know that the life field of the human body and the aura, does in fact have a reaction in proximity to that of another, the aura in particular does not blur or mix with that of another rather it changes hue in much the same way one’s mood can change when a person we love or despise walks into a room. Therefore in much the same way as the movement of the sun, moon and planets exert an electromagnetic effect on our life fields and therefore our bodies, and even though the resultant sum of the human life field is a neutral charge (we spend most of our lives grounded) humans still to varying degrees affect each other, but I am not convinced about coterminousity.

PastorAIO:
What exactly are the contents of the Life Force? Would they for example contain our memories?

The way I was thinking about it I didn't give much consideration to metempsychosis but rather had something like a 'collective unconscious' in mind.

Sarassin:


Good points, I am inclined to believe that the Life field is distinct from the Aura. The Life field is itself a product of life, providing an accurate electronic mirror image in which certain details are detectable before they become apparent to our other senses. But we also know that a much larger pulsating field surrounds the body, imagine an electromagnetic energy cloud, this is the Aura.

Sarassin:

The life field is essentially an electrical field that surrounds living organisms. Every time a muscle contracts, and there is always muscular activity even in the slowest moving organisms, potential is changed and this produces an electrical field that can be measured with specialized instruments.
I see no evidence that it contains actual memories or exhibits cognizance, but what we do know is that the life field can be influenced by disruptions to its host, for instance it changes even before the symptoms of a disease becomes apparent.

PastorAIO:


When I asked about the contents of the life force, I meant it in the sense that 'What is the information that is contained in the Life Force'. i.e by studying the life force can we predict the future state of a physical body?

As you said about changes occurring in the life force before the body's disease becomes apparent, this would suggest that information about the future state of an organism can be gotten from studying the life force.

I suggested that may be the case for Memories too because Memories are Neurological phenomena, and Neurology uses electricity (and hence magnetism), so maybe as the brain stores memories a mark is made on the life field. Or better still, maybe the mark occurs first in the life field and then the brain starts to lay down the memory. Or maybe the two are so simultaneous that there is no difference.

If this Life field were electrical then where would it end considering that we live on a giant magnet called the planet earth which is itself orbiting a much larger magnet called the Sun, not to mention the other magnets like the planet Jupiter etc. Won't all these electro magnetic fields interact and criss cross?

Whatever the nature of the information that can be found in a Life field, is it possible that information not from the host body can enter into the life field and then ultimately affect the host? Perhaps this is how information can be shared telepathically.

UyiIredia:
But near death and out of body experiences provide some evidence that a disembodied soul does exist in us. It would be unwise to ignore the evidence from them because of your materialistic bias. By the way, the brain is the seat of the soul and in life our soul is bound to our living body so any damage to the brain reflects on the soul but this is not so in death when we have on a spiritual body that becomes the new seat of our soul.

Amplitron:
[size=3pt]@ PastorAIO , thank you for the complements. Sarassin is doing an excellent job in explaining his propositions and importantly, answering questions. How can one not like to have a good intellectual exchange with such a person? He reminds me of those days when we had Krayola, Banom, Deepsight, TonyeT,Wirinet, Late Bawomola, MrBrownJ, etc. And discussed to expand our minds. Isn't it laughable that some other people prefer to just lay down their propositions and expect you to swallow them hook, line and sinker?

Well, back to the topic. If Sarassin proposed Life field exists it will have to be purely a responder. Nothing can originate from it. This is in response to PastorAIO's question about wether marks such as thoughts can occur on the Life Field and transferred to the physical body.
@Sarassin, how far out of the body does this Life Field extend? 2cm ?, 13cm?, 5m?, just how far should we estimate it to extend granted that it won't be constant for all people nor even for one person?
For those who can't wrap there heads round the plausibility of this concept just remember those non contact thermometers used all around the country during the Ebola breakout. It accurately measures the body's temperature from a distance. Now, imagine you wanna measure electric field around the body and not temperature.[/size]

it will have to be purely a responder. Nothing can originate from it.

Amplitron:

Nice insight. I also believe that if anything personal outside the physical e.g the supposed soul exists it can only be linked via the brain. However, there is still no conclusive evidence of a disembodied soul. What people experience during near death experiences have been replicated in a laboratory condition. You may google "Michael Persinger". He is a Canadian professor who pioneered and has conducted a lot of research on this matter. You may checkout youtube videos on " the God helmet" The summary is that there is a part of the brain that calculates where your body is and interpreted same correctly. If that part is simulated/disturbed it can let you view yourself like a third party. People who have experienced near death experiences have tested it and confirmed that the God helmet designed by the professor gives the same experience they had during their near death experiences. Our inference is not far fetched now. During NDE that part of the brain is disturbed and the illusion of disembodied non physical self is created.

Sarassin:
...

PastorAIO:
...

Amplitron:
...

Amplitron:


@ Sarassin. Kirlian photography was an area that scientists didn't like much because it was more of parapsychology. It is nice to see that it is now being revisited as there are more tools now to probe things.

I'm still waiting to see any compelling discourse/argument for a disembodied "soul" from anybody out here.

LoJ:


Very nice Discussion. I learned a lot.

@ Sarassin, can this "life field" be equated with the notion of a body generated/related bio energy field which some eastern schools name "chi" or "qi" ?

It is known that some eastern masters/initiate are able to "see" and manipulate the energy field of their patient and facilate the healing process. Likewise they can use the characteristics of the "field" to counteract the effect of greater Electromagnetic fields (like the Earth's, or gravity, etc.) and achieve astonishing feats which would seem impossible to the common man.

cc. SidL (you may find this thread very interesting, as from Page 2).